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Phi230 posted:i cant wait for RtW2 and radar fire control imagine having an aurora-esque radar designer.
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Sep 29, 2016 04:23
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Asehujiko posted:... have an mspaint boat instead. You mean a bote.
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Sep 29, 2016 06:29
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Stairmaster posted:imagine having an aurora-esque radar designer. A beyond the horizon radar bouncing against the ionosphere but also unable to detect ships because the chosen wavelength is far too long and sensitivity is far too low. On the other hand you can map the British Isles just fine from Panama.
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Sep 29, 2016 07:21
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All the World's Fighting Ships 1903 finally arrived at the local library! This book smells old. Anyway, quickly scanned up the article you wanted. Scan's not the best but oh well, apologies for the wonky second page and the slight fading on the inside of the third, didn't want to bend the spine out too much. The very first page of the book has a drawing of the Ideal Battleship  And the article itself    And while flicking through I saw this advert and thought some of you might like it  And in Imgur Gallery form http://imgur.com/a/SMJPk cool new Metroid game fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Sep 29, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 16:58
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wanna see that wargame
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Sep 29, 2016 17:27
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So is RTW2 going to model well into the radar and radar fire control era? If so I wonder how that will be handled mechanically. Especially the fire control radar, the early versions of which would often not be able to accurately detect shell splash if the sea state wasn't ideal, when multiple ships were firing on the same target, and when the target made sudden changes in course. Range finding radar also had a tendency to stop working when ships started to get hit with shells.
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Sep 29, 2016 17:47
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Forums Terrorist posted:wanna see that wargame Edit: It's actually the 1905/6 version, not whatever they were doing three years earlier.
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Sep 29, 2016 17:50
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There's a note stuck in near the front pages of the book, can't make out very well what it's saying because old timey cursive but it looks like it's signed by Jane himself, pretty neat. All I can make out is to some dude who scored 6 hits from 6 rounds fired from a 6" Q.F. and put his hits where it would do most harm to the enemy cool new Metroid game fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Sep 29, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 18:10
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Megadyptes posted:There's a note stuck in near the front pages of the book, can't make out very well what it's saying because old timey cursive but it looks like it's signed by Jane himself, pretty neat. He's saying that he hopes this book assists someone in battle and helps that person put shell hits places that it will most hurt the enemy.
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Sep 29, 2016 18:26
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As far as I can read: To J. Wilson L. S. who on H.M.S. Crescent 1902 made 6 hits with 6 rounds with the 6" Q.F hoping that this book may assist him in battle to put his hits where they will do most harm to the the enemy. With best wishes from Fred T. Jane No clue about what those two words at the bottom are. Dude might be okay at drawing boats but he writes like poo poo. (efb naturally)
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Sep 29, 2016 18:32
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Obfuscation posted:As far as I can read: HMS Crescent. There is no mention on the wiki page of her being involved in action in 1902. The boxer rebellion ended in 1901 and the Second Boer War and the Anglo-Aro war in 1902. Besides the Boxer rebellion I can't think of any "naval action" associated with the other two wars. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Sep 29, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 18:55
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Probably just gunnery practice.
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Sep 29, 2016 18:56
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gently caress yeah. Thank you Megadyptes! I can't wait to get home and read that on an actual screen and not this crappy ols smartphone. Hell I'll probably transcribe it all onto Google docs just to have. Anywhere good on line that I could put a copy of the transcription? Wikimedia do stuff like this? I feel like a copy of this should be somewhere online. Its well past copyright, yeah?
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Sep 29, 2016 19:44
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Megadyptes posted:Probably just gunnery practice. drat the president for wanting to do gunnery competitions and not build more botes!!!
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Sep 29, 2016 20:08
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If gunnery competitions were good enough for Jack FIsher then they're good enough for me. 
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Sep 29, 2016 20:36
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Also, I always love seeing smaller caliber defensive guns mounted on the turret. It must suck for the crew manning them to have to evacuate the position every minute or two so they don't get hit by the concussive blast when main guns fire. The ones on top of the turrets weren't meant to be manned in action. They're more to be used to shell torpedo boats that may be tring to attack you in port. The 1940s counterparts with AA guns on the turret roofs are hopefully similar, though I'd have to actually look that one up. Personally, I'm all for sticking guns everywhere. If there was an option to dig out most of the front of the boat, apply opening covers and add a battery of four centreline mounted, forward facing Schwerer Gustav 80-cm guns, backed up by my usual insane collection of 10in+ casemates all with tertiary 8s on top, I'd go for it. Might need to shave off 10in or so of armour from the sides but whatever.
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Sep 29, 2016 21:05
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TacticalNecromancy posted:The ones on top of the turrets weren't meant to be manned in action. They're more to be used to shell torpedo boats that may be tring to attack you in port. Are you sure? I know the French Navy of the time period had an elaborate system of trumpet/bugle calls to warn the smaller gun crews to clear to safety when the main guns were preparing to fire. Also, transcribing the article now. About halfway done.
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Sep 29, 2016 21:32
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I made a 36,000 ton monster 31 knot BC in 1914 runs on coal 12 14'' guns, -3 like 10 8'' secondaries in double turrets. All my turrets were disabled in gunfight, without hitting any other ships. Sunk by DD torpedo. Building that fucker blew my full 100,000,000 surplus I developed the past 15 years, I didn't build a single ship and I only built the fucker to appease the backwards barbarians who think battleships are the future
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Sep 29, 2016 21:42
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Ok, here is a transcription of the article. I've enabled commenting so if anyone spots any obvious mistakes please feel free to mark them. Gotta say, I was surprised! I figured this article would focus on all the things *I* know make a mono-calibre battleship a good idea: superior range, ease of fire control, etc etc. But his whole design can be summed up as "most battleships are heavily armored making medium caliber guns ineffective. Let's armor ours even more to be impervious to medium guns, make it super fast, then shove in 12" guns, which CAN penetrate belts, and then rush up and blast the enemy at short range!"  Even setting aside RtW, I'm highly skeptical he could achieve all that on 17,000 tons displacement. Also, does anyone else detect a bit of annoyance/bitterness regarding his Almafi design (which the Italian navy passed on)? And for clarity the Vittorio Emanuele III he keeps referring to is the Regina Elena Class Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Sep 29, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 22:27
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Man, now I kind of want to read more articles like this from the period. Also, from the Grog thread: Megadyptes posted:I looked that up in a historic inflation calculator and it told me £6.6s in 1903 is £699.22 or $908.43 today  [edit] A big thanks to DDG (who I believe is OpenlyEvilJello here on SA) for giving the transcription a  Man, how do I even go about finding out if this thing is still under copyright? Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 29, 2016 23:43
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Oh, hah, yeah that's me. Love pickin' them nits. I'll take a quick look at English copyright law (this does not constitute legal advice and shall not be taken as such). It was published in England, right?
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Sep 30, 2016 01:36
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I love how Jane's Fighting Ships was created to list the world's ships and their capabilities for wargaming purposes. It's like a Grog Monster Manual!
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Sep 30, 2016 01:54
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^^^Naval wargames had a key part in the history of D&D. They are, for example, the origin of both "hit points" and "armor class," and why the latter was originally on a descending scale (first-class armor is better than second-class armor). The following is a personal opinion and does not constitute legal advice: Looks like any copyright Cuniberti may have held in his article would have lapsed by 1945 under the law then in place (under modern law it would have expired in 1983); it does not appear that this was retroactively modified when the laws were changed in 1911. Now, it's possible that Cuniberti instead assigned his rights to the publisher (this was long the standard practice for academic journals, for example), and it would take more work to figure out what the copyright duration would be in that case. Without doing that work, best guess is it's deemed to be the same as if Cuniberti held it himself (i.e. it would lapse in 1945 in this case as well). So the article is probably now in the public domain; in any case, a non-commercial use is unlikely to be hit with more than a C&D.
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Sep 30, 2016 03:08
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Thanks for that Jello. I actually asked William Miller, the admin of NWS' forums for permission to post it and mentioned my copyright concern and he added that if it was under US law of the time, it would've expired after 75 years so should be fine. However he understandably suggested that if it was over ~1000 words (its almost 3000) he'd prefer it to not be directly posted as others might argue to post lengthy articles and that could lead to various issues. So I think I'll just post a link to my googledoc copy on the NWS forums and maybe some excerpts.
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Sep 30, 2016 04:10
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Copyrights are so hosed up, we have people worried about legal action if they post an article written by a guy that died over 100 years ago.
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Sep 30, 2016 04:15
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Thanks, Disney
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Sep 30, 2016 04:36
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uPen posted:Copyrights are so hosed up, we have people worried about legal action if they post an article written by a guy that died over 100 years ago. Eh, its less that I'm worried about being sued, and more that I potentially can't post the article where it might generate cool discussion. Which admittedly would be because they're worried about legal action, so I guess you're right!.
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Sep 30, 2016 04:50
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Eh, its less that I'm worried about being sued, and more that I potentially can't post the article where it might generate cool discussion. Which admittedly would be because they're worried about legal action, so I guess you're right!. Because they're worried about being sued.
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Sep 30, 2016 04:51
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Galaga Galaxian posted:So I think I'll just post a link to my googledoc copy on the NWS forums and maybe some excerpts. This is a good way to do it. And sure, IP law in general is kind of wack, and it's probably being driven too much now by the interests of powerful organizations rather than the public, but it's a tough act to balance with a lot of tensions between competing (even public) interests. Law is hard, guys.
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Sep 30, 2016 05:25
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Are you sure? I know the French Navy of the time period had an elaborate system of trumpet/bugle calls to warn the smaller gun crews to clear to safety when the main guns were preparing to fire. I've had a quick poke around and I've not found anything particularly definitive during my drawling of google. C'est la vie. On a side note, started again with the Baddies and seem to be accidentally building bigger CAs than the enemy Bs. I'm entirely alright with this news.  
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Sep 30, 2016 18:55
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Are you sure? I know the French Navy of the time period had an elaborate system of trumpet/bugle calls to warn the smaller gun crews to clear to safety when the main guns were preparing to fire. Friedman's source was specifically discussing the French Brennus, and I think what's going on is the 164mms in the secondary battery firing by the casemate mounts for the 65mms, so turret mounted guns without a shield of some sort would be right out. Heck, even the vibrations alone would be deeply unpleasant, the Virginias had serious issues with their superposed turrets because of the too frequent shocks from firing.
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Sep 30, 2016 19:12
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Obfuscation posted:No clue about what those two words at the bottom are. Dude might be okay at drawing boats but he writes like poo poo. (efb naturally) A partial address? <something> Rd (Road), Southsea?
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Sep 30, 2016 20:14
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I wish there was a way to tell my submarine force to take a break and not suicide themselves into the enemy's patrols looking for ships to sink once I've smashed their battlefleets and am blockading/invading the snot out of my enemy. It's quite expensive to build them back up and bad public policy to needlessly create so many widows and orphans. (My ablative DD crews knew what they were getting into, no tears for them.)
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Sep 30, 2016 20:40
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On board! This is already looking good, only the quality games mix English and Finnish.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:08
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Ah, my old design skills are coming back to me.  This has cross-deck firing. Interestingly, I seem to have forgotten to allow for that in the superstructure, but that's what AP was designed for.
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Sep 30, 2016 22:27
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Obfuscation posted:As far as I can read: It's "Elphinstone Road, Southsea", I'm pretty sure.
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Oct 1, 2016 12:42
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I just realized I have NEVER seen an AI boat with 4-gun turrets, not even in my current game in 1940. They're still designing dumb poo poo like this: How fare your foreign designers, thread?
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Oct 1, 2016 18:25
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The French built three of these in my 1950 AH game. Each one was a separate class and had slightly different stats. Most of the time I end up going for a KGV style ship with 16" guns. Although in this game I did pretty well with a Nelson inspired design that had 12 14" guns in 4-gun turrets.
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Oct 1, 2016 18:57
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Astroclassicist posted:It's "Elphinstone Road, Southsea", I'm pretty sure. Nice, that looks right. MeatloafCat posted:The French built three of these in my 1950 AH game. Each one was a separate class and had slightly different stats. Nelson-inspired meaning ABL turret layout? I've seen variants on the pictured AI design from Britain as well. I have this vague sense, too, that I've seen a Gangut (ALRY I think) with quads.
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Oct 1, 2016 19:04
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Thanks for posting these. I finally had some time today to read them and uhh... quote:Atago takes her first hit, to the starboard soy sauce store which begins a fire on her bow. ^Yeah I've been using ABL. Here's a design from 1934 and the next is from 1947. Being Austria I almost always went with short range. The later one probably needs more deck and turret top armor but oh well.  
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Oct 1, 2016 19:48
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