Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

Hal_2005 posted:

Its simple, you give all the good money (other people's savings) to all the SJW's who will never amount to anything important and can never hope to repay you for all the car/education/credit card loans. Do that for a couple billion people and pretty soon you get to some pretty big numbers. Try as you may (like Subprime) to find suckers to take that bad investment off your hands but like all ponzii schemes there is a day when the jig is up and you just can't convince the last sucker in the room to be your bagman.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 16:34

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# ? May 24, 2024 13:22

Twerk from Home: Jan 17, 2009; This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

MiddleOne posted:

Look up the concept of devaluation.

I understand the issues with holding foreign currency. I got pretty drat surprised when Ceciltron was suggesting that I could both keep USD in the account and get these crazy interest rates.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 16:37

Ceciltron: Jan 11, 2007; Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!; Pillbug

Twerk from Home posted:

I understand the issues with holding foreign currency. I got pretty drat surprised when Ceciltron was suggesting that I could both keep USD in the account and get these crazy interest rates.

I am sorry for leading you astray down the path of wickedness, friend.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 16:39

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Lmao at everyone with a liberal arts degree who's never heard of Norman Bethune

# ? Sep 30, 2016 16:43

Ceciltron: Jan 11, 2007; Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!; Pillbug

namaste faggots posted:

Lmao at everyone with a liberal arts degree who's never heard of Norman Bethune

I like the dude but dying for Mao's Fucklord Bandit Army leaves me with a mixed opinion.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 16:46

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

I'm not saying you should worship him like Justin Trudeau jfc

# ? Sep 30, 2016 17:02

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

namaste faggots posted:

I'm not saying you should worship him like Justin Trudeau jfc

Of course not. How many Trudeau statues are there in China?

# ? Sep 30, 2016 17:06

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/30/vancouver-canada-house-prices-solution-super-heated-housing-market

quote:

Has Vancouver found the solution to a super-heated housing market?
In a radical move, the Canadian city now charges an extra 15% to any overseas investor buying property there. The short-term impact on Vancouver house prices has been startling � but will it last?

There is a city which is suffering a worse property bubble than Sydney, whose residents are more priced-out than Londoners, and where there is a greater divide between the housing haves and have-nots than even San Francisco.

That city is Vancouver, and in response to these mounting challenges, the west-coast Canadian metropolis recently imposed an extraordinary new tax on foreign buyers � whose impact is now being watched closely by other cities grappling with bloated property markets.

On 2 August, Vancouver introduced a tax on anyone from outside Canada wanting to buy a home in its super-heated market. In future, city authorities said, if you weren�t Canadian, you would have to pay an extra 15% on the purchase price.

The impact has, by some measures, been more startling than campaigners could have hoped for. The price of the average detached home reportedly slumped by an astonishing 16.7% in August alone to C$1.47m (�856,000), according to the Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver. Some agents are reporting that the market has gone from red hot to stone cold in a matter of weeks.

British Columbia�s premier, Christy Clark, who introduced the tax, told reporters there will be no going back on it. �The prices were going up way too fast and if we helped slow that down, that�s good,� she said.

In the year before the tax, prices in the city were galloping ahead at a rate of 39% a year amid widespread concern that investors, from China in particular, were pricing out local residents.

Vancouver authorities have taken extraordinary action to curb its super-heated housing market.

It is a concern echoed in cities across the Pacific Rim. In June, Sydney introduced a 4% stamp duty surcharge on foreigners buying homes; the following month, Melbourne hiked stamp duty rates from 3% to 7% for foreign buyers � in both cases to deter rampant property speculation.

Queensland, whose capital is Brisbane, has followed suit with an extra 3% duty surcharge that will be slapped on �foreign persons� buying residential property and land from 1 October. In Auckland, New Zealand � currently the world�s frothiest property market � property investors are, as of last month, required to put down at least 40% of the purchase price in cash.

'This is just the start': China's passion for foreign property

Global property agents Knight Frank say there has been a big increase in cities and countries � from Switzerland to Fiji � imposing measures to deter foreign buyers in recent years. However China, traditionally one of the countries most resistant to such investment, eased its rules in 2015, with individual cities now determining the limits on qualifying foreign individuals and companies (in Shanghai, for example, the restriction is one property).

How long-lasting the impact of Vancouver�s tax will prove is a subject of much debate. Greater Vancouver�s Real Estate Board prefers to use measures that suggest the city�s market has only dipped mildly.

And earlier this month Jing Li, a 29-year-old Chinese student living in the adjoining city of Burnaby, began a class-action lawsuit against the new tax. Li had put a 10% deposit down on a half-million dollar Vancouver townhouse in July, only for the tax to be imposed 12 days later.

According to CBC News, this added C$84,000 to the price of Li�s house, meaning she was suddenly at risk of losing her C$56,000 deposit. �I can�t go forward and I can�t go back,� she told CBC.

�The only solution�
Ron Jordens, a 72-year-old retired engineer, lives in a rent-controlled apartment block in Mount Pleasant: once a gritty working-class Vancouver neighbourhood, now hipster central.

The block�s landlords have served an eviction notice. According to Jordens, they are hoping to cash in on the boom by renovating the flats � and raising rents by 50%.

He says the �renovation� is unnecessary, claiming it is simply a device to circumvent rules protecting tenants. But amid spiralling rents elsewhere in the city, he says some of his neighbours have had no choice but to accept the landlords� demands. One single mother with an 11-year-old child was temporarily evicted, he says, and has had to take on three jobs to afford the new rent.

�People who have a good, decent-paying job can�t afford to buy in Vancouver, and they can barely afford to rent,� Jordens says.

Ron Jordens is facing eviction from his rent-controlled apartment block in Mount Pleasant.

The new tax, he adds, is just �putting a Band-Aid� on the problem, predicting that �there will be ways around it with side-contracts. It has got to the point where the only solution has to be a �no foreign ownership� deal on the table.�

But isn�t Canada a country built on immigration? Jordens points to the thousands of unoccupied flats across the city, built for investors who often never reside there. �If you are coming to live here, get a job and pay taxes, that�s great. The trouble is they don�t live here, and they don�t pay taxes.�

There are an estimated 10,000-plus empty apartments in Vancouver, of which a significant number are owned by foreign investors. In mid-September, 200 protestors from a new campaign group, HALT � Housing Action for Local Taxpayers � took to Vancouver�s streets demanding action to control the market. Among the speakers were academics who argue that the Canadian home-owning dream is being crushed because they can�t compete with foreign investors.

The protests appear to be working: an empty homes tax last week won the approval of city councillors and is set to be implemented next year. Even owners of empty Airbnb flats could be fined $10,000 for failing to comply. Vancouver is fast turning into a test-bed of initiatives to cool outrageous property prices and rents.

But over on West Vancouver�s Marine Drive, home to plush waterfront estates (one sold for $50m last year), the city�s biggest realtor to Chinese investors, Clarence Debelle, says the new taxes are �driven by jealousy and envy�.

He says the Vancouver market was slowing in any case, and that the 15% tax on overseas buyers will do nothing to help priced-out 25- to 35-year-olds buying entry-level apartments. But it could, he warns, destroy the local economy.

�Virtually everything being built in West Vancouver is being built for a Chinese buyer. Vancouver has no industry apart from tourism and construction. So what do we do? Decide to insult the Chinese. You may not just blight the property market, but bankrupt the construction industry, too.�

Debelle predicts stalemate in Vancouver�s market as sellers refuse to drop prices. And he fears for Canada�s global reputation: �In my view, the Chinese see this as a racist-motivated tax. It�s a dark moment in Canadian political history.

�It�s the wrong tax too,� he adds, �as it won�t help the people at the bottom wanting to get into the market. It has not changed the pricing of their homes one bit. There are better ways to help, such as increasing supply.�

Debelle�s own father emigrated from Europe after the second world war. �Vancouver is now an international destination. You can�t have it both ways: benefit from trade and tourism, and have the tax.�

�The market has been distorted�
Vancouver�s experiment is being closely watched in London. According to London Assembly member Sian Berry, who stood as the Green party�s candidate for mayor: �Vancouver shows that the very rich buying up luxury flats at the expense of ordinary people is not just a London problem � it�s a growing problem all over the world.

Vancouver shows that the rich buying up luxury flats at the expense of ordinary people is a growing problem worldwide

�London needs more devolution so we can take similar steps,� Berry says, �controlling stamp duty and council tax, and closing the loopholes that allow people to buy property through offshore companies � so that the people who actually live in London can stand a chance.

�A huge amount of housing in London is being bought up by offshore companies to avoid paying tax,� she adds. �In my area in north London, overseas companies bought up �2.5bn of property in just four years and avoided hundreds of millions in stamp duty.�

Berry�s concerns are shared not only by the left. The Bow Group, a conservative thinktank, issued a paper last year in which it talked of a global super-rich elite, some of them criminal, snapping up property in London, pushing up costs for existing residents and throwing the poor to the edges of the city.

The report�s author, Daniel Valentine, traces the phenomenal increase in London house prices to the mid 1990s, when three factors came together: a sudden surge in population, the explosion in buy-to-let lending, and the entry of China and Russia into the global economy, producing a global elite seeking a safe home for their cash.

These factors have, he says, corrupted the market, creating an insatiable �investment demand� divorced from the underlying needs of British society.

Prospective buyers wait to inspect a house for sale in Sydney�s Eastwood suburb.

On the other side of the Pacific to Vancouver, the same arguments are rehearsed in Australia and New Zealand, although not just about the global elite. One recent report followed a day of family home auctions in Sydney�s northern suburbs; all but one property were said to have been bought by Chinese buyers, with even modest homes fetching A$1.8m (�1.05m).

Two decades ago, buying a house in a major Australian city cost around five times the income of the average young Australian. Now, after the country�s economic boom, it is about 15 times.

Pete Wargent is a leading property buying agent in Sydney and Brisbane. �The phenomenon of the Chinese buyer has been a huge story here for years now. But you just have to look where Australia is; there are a lot of pathways for Chinese money.�

He says the flood of Chinese cash has sparked an extraordinary building boom. �There are more high-rise apartments under construction than ever � with 150,000 going up across the country.�

Given that Australia bans foreign buyers of existing homes, nearly all the Chinese money is pouring into new-build towers. The 4% stamp duty surcharge means a non-resident buyer pays about A$30,000 more than an Australian resident for a A$750,000 apartment in Sydney.

Gentrification is a global problem. It's time we found a better solution

It�s difficult to assess the impact of the surcharge yet, says Wargent, although he notes a gathering panic in some Australian banks, which are now far less keen to lend to non-residents. From 2017 a second new surcharge will hit non-residents: a 0.75% land tax, which has to be paid each year. Some fear that apartments bought off-plan will be dumped back on the market en masse.

Will that help to moderate prices for local buyers? �Eventually it could help,� says Wargent. �The problem in Sydney and Melbourne is that the market has been heavily distorted in favour of investors. In Sydney more than half the market is investors, which is a crazy imbalance.�.

Critics say that a flood of apartment purchases through domestic pension �super-funds� is more to blame for the spiralling prices than Chinese buyers. Wargent also throws into the mix �landbanking� by major developers � drip-feeding sites into the market to ensure prices keep soaring � plus loose lending criteria from the major banks.

�In truth, it has been tough for first-time buyers for nearly a generation now,� he says. He advocates a broad-based land value tax (LVT) as about the only measure �to cool the sheer demand for housing here�.

The bad news for young Australians wanting a foothold on the fabled property ladder is that the latest house price figures are just out. Despite the new stamp duty on foreign buyers and a slowdown earlier in the year, prices in every major Australian city, except Perth and Darwin, have picked up again.

i don't know what to even say

quote:

But over on West Vancouver�s Marine Drive, home to plush waterfront estates (one sold for $50m last year), the city�s biggest realtor to Chinese investors, Clarence Debelle, says the new taxes are �driven by jealousy and envy�.

He says the Vancouver market was slowing in any case, and that the 15% tax on overseas buyers will do nothing to help priced-out 25- to 35-year-olds buying entry-level apartments. But it could, he warns, destroy the local economy.

�Virtually everything being built in West Vancouver is being built for a Chinese buyer. Vancouver has no industry apart from tourism and construction. So what do we do? Decide to insult the Chinese. You may not just blight the property market, but bankrupt the construction industry, too.�

Debelle predicts stalemate in Vancouver�s market as sellers refuse to drop prices. And he fears for Canada�s global reputation: �In my view, the Chinese see this as a racist-motivated tax. It�s a dark moment in Canadian political history.

�It�s the wrong tax too,� he adds, �as it won�t help the people at the bottom wanting to get into the market. It has not changed the pricing of their homes one bit. There are better ways to help, such as increasing supply.�

even realtors admit there's nothing going on here except real estate so the solution is to build more real estate

# ? Sep 30, 2016 17:10

Lain Iwakura: Aug 5, 2004; The body exists only to verify one's own existence.; Taco Defender

Can't wait for 200 sq ft 3 bedroom condos to make up for the lack of family supply.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 17:15

Brannock: Feb 9, 2006; by exmarx; Fallen Rib

What the gently caress is it with realtors and worshiping the Chinese? How servile are these people?

# ? Sep 30, 2016 17:23

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

namaste faggots posted:

even realtors admit there's nothing going on here except real estate so the solution is to build more real estate

I dunno probably Confucus posted:

When all you have is a Chinese hammer, every problem is a Chinese nail.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 17:23

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Brannock posted:

What the gently caress is it with realtors and worshiping the Chinese? How servile are these people?

Commission on a million dollars is a powerful motivator.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 17:52

mojo1701a: Oct 9, 2008; Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

Barudak posted:

Commission on a million dollars is a powerful motivator.

The "we've established you're a whore; we're just haggling over price" quote comes to mind.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 17:54

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

namaste faggots posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/30/vancouver-canada-house-prices-solution-super-heated-housing-market

i don't know what to even say

even realtors admit there's nothing going on here except real estate so the solution is to build more real estate

loving

realtors still want us to simultaneously believe that the foreign buyer tax isn't going to do anything but is also a racist crime against humanity.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 19:04

MickeyFinn: May 8, 2007; Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

namaste faggots posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/30/vancouver-canada-house-prices-solution-super-heated-housing-market

i don't know what to even say

even realtors admit there's nothing going on here except real estate so the solution is to build more real estate

Nothing better than free trade and flow of capital loving over white people.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 19:33

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

No guys the housing market can govern and manage itself they dont need some evil government observer trying to dictate clean healthy practice.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 19:55

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

White People: can I start referring to Realtors as real estate coolies?

# ? Sep 30, 2016 19:58

peter banana: Sep 2, 2008; Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

Furnaceface posted:

No guys the housing market can govern and manage itself they dont need some evil government observer trying to dictate clean healthy practice.

Cool, then start giving out more information in a listing like the last price the house sold for and when, days on the market and any prices changes in that time.

Edit: although if you think it's bad in Canada, my SIL in Ireland is having a heck of a time because she's buying a house and apparently A) the woman she's buying it from isn't the legal owner, her separated husband is and B) the ex-husband has a 10,000 euro lien on the property. Apparently, there is no requirement for a solicitor to check on either of these things when signing over a deposit there and there wouldn't even be a central register for liens on properties either. So it could always be worse. It could always be Ireland.

peter banana fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Sep 30, 2016

# ? Sep 30, 2016 20:02

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

namaste faggots posted:

White People: can I start referring to Realtors as real estate coolies?

yes, yes you can.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 20:29

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
THE SPEECH SUPPRESSOR

Remember: it's "antisemitic" to protest genocide as long as the targets are brown.

peter banana posted:

Edit: although if you think it's bad in Canada, my SIL in Ireland is having a heck of a time because she's buying a house and apparently A) the woman she's buying it from isn't the legal owner, her separated husband is and B) the ex-husband has a 10,000 euro lien on the property. Apparently, there is no requirement for a solicitor to check on either of these things when signing over a deposit there and there wouldn't even be a central register for liens on properties either. So it could always be worse. It could always be Ireland.

Uh, this is what title insurance is for.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 20:44

peter banana: Sep 2, 2008; Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

tagesschau posted:

Uh, this is what title insurance is for.

Ah well that would explain it. Apparently title insurance only came to Ireland in 2008 and essentially replaces the need for a solicitor, so I' pretty sure their solicitor wouldn't be encouraging them to seek it out:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/more-borrowers-bypass-solicitor-in-favour-of-new-title-insurance-26436451.html

# ? Sep 30, 2016 20:55

MickeyFinn: May 8, 2007; Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

namaste faggots posted:

White People: can I start referring to Realtors as real estate coolies?

Sure. Go nuts.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 21:25

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

https://twitter.com/__m_pereira/status/781936558781845504?s=09

lmao

# ? Sep 30, 2016 21:55

RealityWarCriminal: Aug 10, 2016

Now you too can live in a crappy Maple Ridge subdivision, all without having to leave China.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 22:16

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

So a local victoria church with a huge property in Rockland recent sold... or did it??

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/dissidents-try-to-block-7-million-sale-of-church-on-fort-st-1.2227754

The church has 2 factions within it, each claiming to be the true legal governing body of the church. One sold the property (and collected money) while the other says they have no intention of selling and the group that sold the church did so illegally. It's such an amazing poo poo show.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 22:19

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
THE SPEECH SUPPRESSOR

Remember: it's "antisemitic" to protest genocide as long as the targets are brown.

Baronjutter posted:

So a local victoria church with a huge property in Rockland recent sold... or did it??

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/dissidents-try-to-block-7-million-sale-of-church-on-fort-st-1.2227754

The church has 2 factions within it, each claiming to be the true legal governing body of the church. One sold the property (and collected money) while the other says they have no intention of selling and the group that sold the church did so illegally. It's such an amazing poo poo show.

tagesschau posted:

Uh, this is what title insurance is for.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 23:13

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

namaste faggots posted:

https://twitter.com/__m_pereira/status/781936558781845504?s=09

lmao

That "Vancouver or Beijing" test was easy as poo poo, they somehow managed to make everything in the Beijing version more suburban than Vancouver's suburbs.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 23:19

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

namaste faggots posted:

https://twitter.com/__m_pereira/status/781936558781845504?s=09

lmao

rofl

# ? Oct 1, 2016 00:44

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

namaste faggots posted:

https://twitter.com/__m_pereira/status/781936558781845504?s=09

lmao

The chinese will be forced to import smug Vancouverites to make it a authentic neighborhood.

We live in a world class city with lots of jobs and opportunity!

# ? Oct 1, 2016 01:01

Fried Watermelon: Dec 29, 2008

So do Canadian criminals launder their money there or what

# ? Oct 1, 2016 01:31

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

HAL_2005 has been shitposting in my Deutsche bank thread in GBS. Can someone check his programming please?

# ? Oct 1, 2016 01:40

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Hal wishes db would give him a job lol

# ? Oct 1, 2016 02:24

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

He's literally an irl shitposter as an analyst for a "boutique" fund aka no one invests in it lmao

# ? Oct 1, 2016 02:25

mojo1701a: Oct 9, 2008; Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

namaste faggots posted:

https://twitter.com/__m_pereira/status/781936558781845504?s=09

lmao

Vancouver, but with Chinese characteristics.

# ? Oct 1, 2016 02:27

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Do you think they allow public defecation

# ? Oct 1, 2016 02:28

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Does it have clean air and nice weather?

# ? Oct 1, 2016 03:00

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

I hope they build some giant plywood mountains as a backdrop, that's the key, that mountain view!

# ? Oct 1, 2016 03:04

Tighclops: Jan 23, 2008; Unable to deal with it; Grimey Drawer

They could hire the people who built the mountain for Wonderland

we have the technology

# ? Oct 1, 2016 03:07

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Baronjutter posted:

I hope they build some giant plywood mountains as a backdrop, that's the key, that mountain view!

The beautiful Rockies, have you heard?

# ? Oct 1, 2016 03:16

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# ? May 24, 2024 13:22

mojo1701a: Oct 9, 2008; Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

Are we sure it's not just some Chinese tiny town?

# ? Oct 1, 2016 03:58

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