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Lazrin posted:scam tactics... like what? Allow me to cite an example. A talented young man call Dec put together the morrow tour literally with band aid and chewing gum. As it was it looked utterly poo poo but if Chris had moved the controller in the wrong direction once. You would have seen a screen full of props colliding into each other and a crash to desktop. The whole thing was worked in , crunch level hours. To show the backers something so they would pledge more cash to keep the show on the road
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Oct 1, 2016 22:07
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Don't get me started on the gamescom thing
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Oct 1, 2016 22:08
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Just the periodic PSA reminder: Moma and Lazrin are not actual citizens, or even individuals. They're just accounts whose function is to dispute the word scam, provide a pro-CIG argument for the sake of any newcomers to the debacle that happen to be browsing, and occasionally derail when genuinely awkward things happen. Arguing with them is not the best use of anyone's time. Also since that other PSA guy hasn't been through in a while, call your parents, they'd probably like to hear from you.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:09
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Hillary Clintons Thong posted:i'm charging my camcorder for my "I'm a SC video" Please do this. Bonus points if you wear an alien mask as well.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:10
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EightAce posted:Don't get me started on the gamescom thing Please?  <-- Oct 1st!And Catte
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Oct 1, 2016 22:11
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Danknificent posted:Just the periodic PSA reminder: Shill shitizen or just agitators they have a right to post on here If they keep it civil I'll tell them whatever they need to know. I'm not saving souls here . Hopefully their shilling / whatever will lead to hard facts being seen by others
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Oct 1, 2016 22:12
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Danknificent posted:Just the periodic PSA reminder:
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Oct 1, 2016 22:12
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A Neurotic Jew posted:
But you forgot the logic clause rule in everybody's hypocrisy. Rule #1: It's against the rules until I want to do it. Then it's ok.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:13
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That is all. Off to a titty bar
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Oct 1, 2016 22:15
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scrubs season six posted:
I love this open, friendly community. They should pretty much close down all the forums, and create one: Let's Discuss Our Next Star Citizen Purchase *if not talking about giving us money, it's not a constructive conversation.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:16
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The Titanic posted:But you forgot the logic clause rule in everybody's hypocrisy. Rule #1a: it's ok, but still only for me.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:16
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EightAce posted:That is all. Off to a titty bar
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Oct 1, 2016 22:17
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EightAce posted:Allow me to cite an example. i get it... and i believe it. i don't mind it though. if there's a dev team working toward (no matter how long) bringing the game to some form of release, that's all that matter to me, and generally most backers i'd assume.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:18
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I don't think this is an intentional scam. I think there is some definite intentional misuse of backer funds, and fiduciary malfeasance in regards to executive compensation, but of course I can not prove that. I do *know* that backers were promised that a game would be developed with certain features. I do know that many stretch goals were promised as the funding became larger. I think many of those stretch goals have increased the technical debt required to get this game out the door to a point that strains feasibility. Chris Roberts wants to make his perfect game, and he wants to make it his way. He believes that he was doing good work on Freelancer and Microsoft stepped in at the last minute to rob him of his glory, to rush out the product and to edge him out. Roberts chose to utilize crowdfunding for this so that could not happen again. We have a person with a demonstrable past of not being able to meet deadlines, not being able to delegate tasks well, and wasting large amounts of time and money in the process. We have a person who has spent dozens, maybe even as much as 30 million dollars on motion capture and video sequences while trying to create a space MMO. Would any sane person have backed Star Citizen if the pitch was "Hey, we are going to utilize a quarter of our entire budget for motion capture, even though this is a space game focused around space ships fighting!" ? Chris Roberts was unable to find a studio to back this project because they refused to give him ultimate authority, because they know his past. They knew what would happen. They knew this would happen. He leveraged nostalgia and, likely misplaced, goodwill to entice backers to fund his project. He sold them dreams, some of them costing hundreds of dollars. He wants to make this dream a reality, but is incapable of it. He has hired hundreds of people who want to make his dream come true, and are capable of it, but his hubris prevents them from doing it. Now that the harsh reality of limited funding is coming into scope and they actually have to release *something* the facade is crumbling. Backers and CIG staff are starting to realize that this project will never materialize as was promised. People who spent almost a thousand loving dollars on a spaceship realize that after 5 years of development CIG has not put any serious thought into actual gameplay, the core component of a game. Instead of CIG admitting their mistake and talking about what they need to do to get a good, but limited, functioning game out the door, they are hawking new spaceships for sale. That is what makes it a scam.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:20
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A Neurotic Jew posted:lethality is a massive piece of poo poo.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:20
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A Neurotic Jew posted:lethality is a massive piece of poo poo. 
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Oct 1, 2016 22:22
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Tippis posted:Good thing they waited 5 years before working on the game, so they had time to weed out the all the really annoying complainers. If Beer was still involved there would be a 10 page discretion between the promised pages of documentation and the actual gameplay mechanic. I have a feeling if he made it that far, that'd probably be the tipping point at this time. I certainly hope others are finally getting a wake up call. The game is really shaping up to be a mediocre arena shooter that isn't good at any one thing, full of crappy mechanics. There killing the role play crowd too I bet. Unless they're trying to role play as a Space Tiger (Woods). The hardcore role players were looking forward to 10 hour space flights, packed with social interaction and "work" to do aboard their virtual life replacement vessel, the USS EnterFireMilliniumStarSpergRapeFantasy. Please don't steal my ship name guys. It's my original creation for the verse. 
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Oct 1, 2016 22:27
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Hey The Titanic, I am a big Titanic fan myself. Have you seen this upcoming game, Titanic: Honor and Glory ? Link here --> http://www.titanichg.com They have a really neat real time rendering of the sinking as well, linked here --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs9w5bgtJC8 If you think this game is cool, please do me a favor and do NOT tell Lethality about it.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:28
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Lazrin posted:yes. it's pretty hosed. but that doesn't mean they're not trying and it might not yet eventually work out. Yeah there you go, just go ahead and walk it back... Lazrin posted:but for the most part we're in it to win or lose. that's something around here no one can seem to understand, let alone respect. Well you're half right.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:30
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Good news, commandos. The store wasn't out of water or candles, so when the hurricane crushes me to death with my neighbor's tree next weekend I'll at least be able to see stuff and have something to drink.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:43
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Pease Porridge Hot posted:Good news, commandos. The store wasn't out of water or candles, so when the hurricane crushes me to death with my neighbor's tree next weekend I'll at least be able to see stuff and have something to drink. Stay safe.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:50
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Pease Porridge Hot posted:Good news, commandos. The store wasn't out of water or candles, so when the hurricane crushes me to death with my neighbor's tree next weekend I'll at least be able to see stuff and have something to drink. You'll miss CitizenCon
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Oct 1, 2016 22:51
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haha grown rear end man thinking his dedication and faith as a consumer of a video game is worthy of respect...
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Oct 1, 2016 22:54
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Lazrin posted:i get it... and i believe it. i don't mind it though. if there's a dev team working toward (no matter how long) bringing the game to some form of release, that's all that matter to me, and generally most backers i'd assume. Bringing the game to some form of release, when/if that happens, will have involved the pissing away of 5 games worth of funding through the incompetence of a single egotistical man. "How could someone be allowed to waste so much money to produce something so mediocre?" people will ask. And it's this. All the other backers with their hand waving "oh I'm sure eventually they'll produce something" without any attempt to hold people to account for what they're doing with your money. That's how someone can piss away money so easily. Why is it that you have faith in this project? Is it purely the amount of money? Do you believe that if you give someone enough money then there's no way they can gently caress it up? Don't tell me you've been taken in by the self publicised "Chris Roberts" legend - a man who has never created a video game outside of the strict control of a publisher and has zero experience of game development in the last 20 years. Your recent posts in this thread have actually come across as pretty level headed and open to discussion on the topic which I'm pretty impressed by. It's obvious that you're not just in denial about the reality or that you believe everything you're told by the CIG sales pitch. I'm just not sure what's keeping you from getting your money out of the dumpster fire. You can always buy the game when it's released, after all.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:57
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EightAce posted:That is all. Off to a titty bar Say "Hi" to Chris for us.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:01
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Mirificus posted:Keep on doing what you're doing CIG. https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/348124/quantum-radar-and-space-magic "If we are just gonna start throwing random space magic into the game, then i want a quantum gun that can shoot pilots by skipping through ship armor as if it isn't there, Also light sabers,"
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Oct 1, 2016 23:21
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Well sent my refund request. Irony I will probably use the money to buy a PS4 Pro next month. Getting refunded from the project that was to "Save PC Gaming" in order to buy a new console. Which will probably used more to watch Netflix than to play games, but...
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Oct 1, 2016 23:25
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At least you can play Infinite Warfare on it and have some spaceship fun :v
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Oct 1, 2016 23:25
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D_Smart posted:I am glad you brought this up because I was just chatting with someone on PM about specifically this. The backers don't seem to realize that they have very little influence on this games's design direction. It's all down to Chris. Since he's not paying attention to them, all they're doing is wasting their time with their dissenting opinions and wishful thinking. I think this is the part where things aren't necessarily the backers "wishful thinking". They do want some crazy stuff, but at the same time look at the webpage and realize that CIG is telling them to expect these nutty things. When they are told how oxygen is going to be simulated, and you'll be controlling your breathing, and the thousands of crazy promises on a per space ship basis. They get crazy when they try to fill in the blanks from the promised insanity. But in all this, they never said anything about the mechanics being actually delivered. Some people realized the promises would never, possibly match up with the reality of what a mere game can actually deliver. Chris Roberts makes complex things sound easy, because he doesn't understand them. This would be like me explaining how nuclear power is made. I guarantee my explanation would be pretty vague, and simplistic, but I could make it sound plausible. Now compare my explanation to somebody who actually knows the real mechanics and is a nuclear engineer or scientist, and it's going to be significantly more complex and clearly not as easy as I made it sound. Therein is Chris' problem and benefit. He's being the nuclear scientist without any knowledge of what he's talking about. He's telling this to people who believe him because he built a steam engine 20 years ago and power is power so it's ok. His oversimplification has allowed people to believe making a game is just a bunch of switches, and things just fall together like legos. The wank pod, the bad boy timeout, the flip a switch to hack your wanted level... these are game-y mechanics that are exactly not what was promised or still pitched. They're not going to update their website with the reality of how the mechanic really functions in the game. It's lies, deceit, and ignorance telling people who really don't know any better that this is easy and how it will work. The more of the game CIG makes, the more people will fall away and get upset. The more CIG will continue to treat them like retarded children and the more they will deserve to get their money back. It doesn't matter how many people say "I already got my money's worth!!" Because the fact of the matter is that CIG isn't keeping a single one of its promises. Other than the game is in space.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:26
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Pease Porridge Hot posted:Good news, commandos. The store wasn't out of water or candles, so when the hurricane crushes me to death with my neighbor's tree next weekend I'll at least be able to see stuff and have something to drink. I sure hope beet doesn't die.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:28
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Lazrin posted:effort post Wasting $150m on inefficiencies, in a videogame, is not okay. If you think that it is okay, then I have a faulty undersea paradise I would like to sell you.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:32
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I spoke with the Kotaku UK editor on twitter today after disagreeing with the conclusions in the final piece. And while it's evident that, for example, a great amount of money was spent on expensive Restoration Hardware furniture, there is no proof that it was bought with backer money, no receipts. Same with the public record lawsuit(s) and late filing(s) in the UK. I thought this all warranted at least some scrutiny, but something very interesting was brought up in the conversation, which might just be key to their series of articles: Kotaku UK is based in the loving UK. I, for one, forgot that their libel laws are much less favorable to the press than those we have here in the USA. Due to their location and laws, they must hold themselves to a different standard than what I expected, dulling their opinions to a certain extent in order to protect themselves. Their actual opinions might differ but they have to cover their asses for legal reasons. That all said, I thought the articles were all excellent. The only fault was not seeing the former Gizmondo staffers currently on the CIG payroll.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:38
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Ayn Marx posted:Say what you will about Chris Roberts, but he's been really successful so far. 4 years of living the good life, expensive holidays and having lots of fun playing director with A-listers, all paid for by sad nerds. That's a success any way you look at it :v This is true and sad.  He'll retire off of this if he doesn't try to keep a mansion and junk.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:41
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The "I am a
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Oct 1, 2016 23:42
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Ayn Marx posted:Say what you will about Chris Roberts, but he's been really successful so far. 4 years of living the good life, expensive holidays and having lots of fun playing director with A-listers, all paid for by sad nerds. That's a success any way you look at it :v Failing upward is still failing.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:43
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Jobbo_Fett posted:True success would've been to make a loving game, bank all the money anyways, not be in legal poo poo, and create a franchise from nothing that would last decades. That part of it requires talent and good management skill. Also the ability to not overextend and over promise. Probably even a fairly new and fresh indie group would have been able to hack together the original Star Citizen game from way back in the day. Unfortunately, he is Chris Roberts. I'd like to propose that this become a new verb. Chris Roberts: Taking something small and manageable and transforming it into something impossible that cannot be done Usage example: Max really Chris Roberts'd that new car design, it's hosed now and we lost years of time and millions in development costs.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:47
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The Kins posted:I managed to talk with some of the Evocati dudes, and without naming any names, one of them shot me an exclusive screenshot of the 4.1 "Jesus Patch" that'll be due by the end of the year. It's pretty spoiler-heavy, sadly, but you really want to see this... 
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Oct 1, 2016 23:49
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Danknificent posted:Moma and Lazrin are not actual citizens, or even individuals. They're just accounts whose function is to dispute the word scam, provide a pro-CIG argument for the sake of any newcomers to the debacle that happen to be browsing, and occasionally derail when genuinely awkward things happen. I'm not convinced that's true. Sure it's fully stupid and pointless enough for CIG to be spending money doing it but when Citizens are happily recording degrading videos of themselves, that will be used in a marketing video to attract new suckers, it's impossible to tell if someone is a shill or just deep in the cult. I fully believe that the Digital Marketing Director that created the INN website had a business relationship with CIG, that seems entirely logical as it's really odd that someone with no real interest in the game would setup a website for the game and create fake online profiles, when his normal work is setting up marketing websites for secret clients. But Lazrin and Moma might just be deluded, also moma has shown signs of being able to save himself, a reference to selling his ships next summer if he needs to. I doubt CIG will make it far into summer next year before going bust but there's hope for him. Lazrin might wake up too, sure it appears unlikely but imagine that anti Derek rage flipping to be anti-CIG rage, he'll probably thank Derek eventually and apologise. You also have to remember that a lot of people lurk and they can be anywhere on the scale from Shitizen to Citizen to Critic. Crazy as it seems real honest to god idiots will be reading this thread and cheering Lazrin's twisted logic on as he continues to refuse to admit he's being conned by a soulless marketing machine that's using the money raised purely to attract new suckers.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:50
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too much forehead
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Oct 1, 2016 23:51
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