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Bongo Bill posted:He was going to use them to convert power.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:54
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Yaws posted:It means the Jedi are uncaring cunts,which utterly undercuts the emotional pull of killing Obi-Wan going down. Instead of seeing Our Hero dying you see some rear end in a top hat slaughtering another rear end in a top hat. Everyone sucks in ROTJ so who the gently caress cares about anything that happens to them? - Some nerd, around 1983
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Oct 4, 2016 04:55
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Guy Goodbody posted:Equal rights for droids? Most of the droids in The Phantom Menace are just nodes of a super computer in space. And they are deserving of equal rights. Are they not?
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Oct 4, 2016 04:55
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:And they are deserving of equal rights, are they not? Maybe you could argue that the super computer deserves rights, if it's actually sentient, which I don't remember any evidence of. But not the individual droids.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:56
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The Jedi are not, individually, bad people. They are generally conscientious, charming, honorable, and devoted. But as an organization, they are blinded by their prejudices and unable to contemplate the idea that the galactic order they enforce is not truly just. That's the entire point of the Obi-Wan character: he's a suave and heroic type you can't help but like, and yet he casually dismisses the worth of droids and other pathetic life forms, won't even consider the idea that the Republic is vulnerable to the Sith, and can't bring himself to tell his adoptive brother (son?) how much he loves him because doing so runs counter to what he has learned. You could draw a parallel between Jedi and police officers.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:57
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The great sin of the Jedi- well, one of them- was letting it get this bad. They're supposed to be a force for peace and justice, right? Why did they let slavery get widespread in the outer planets to begin with? What we see is that they don't even know it was this bad. Qui-Gon's immediate plans are frustrated because he didn't know that a Tattooine junk dealer wouldn't take Republic currency, because the Republic has no value out there. The Queen, who even lives on an outer rim planet, doesn't realize that slavery is still a thing. Wasn't happening on Naboo, after all, so who cares right? This is one thing I do like about the prequels- there's a sense of history here, borrowing a bit from Frank Herbert's Dune and the idea of people being helpless in the face of larger tides. While AOTC is in some ways the roughest made of the movies, the scene of the cavalry arriving to save everyone and it's a bunch of Storm Troopers descending from Star Destroyers firing mini-Death-Star-guns is an amazing payoff. It's like, 'Of course, that's how it happened.' I'm repeating myself again. See, it really is like poetry, everything rhymes.
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Oct 4, 2016 04:58
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Guy Goodbody posted:Maybe you could argue that the super computer deserves rights, if it's actually sentient, which I don't remember any evidence of. But not the individual droids. The droids are speaking beings. They can pass a turing test. What reason do you have to deny them rights.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:00
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The droids are speaking beings. They can pass a turing test. What reason do you have to deny them rights. Annnndddd here we go again! Droids are people folks! Did ya catch it this time?!
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Oct 4, 2016 05:01
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Yaws posted:It means the Jedi are uncaring cunts,which utterly undercuts the emotional pull of Order 66 going down. Instead of seeing Our Heros dying you see some assholes slaughtering other assholes. Everyone sucks in the prequels so who the gently caress cares about anything that happens to them? *And to be clear, this is a pretty relative assessment, since the prequels do not trust institutions at all.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:02
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Yaws posted:Annnndddd here we go again! Droids are people folks! Did ya catch it this time?! Get off the internet, Obi-Wan
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Oct 4, 2016 05:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The droids are speaking beings. They can pass a turing test. What reason do you have to deny them rights. They can't pass a turing test, they just say roger roger and stuff. There's no evidence of individuality in the battle droids. They all shut down when the computer in space gets blown up because they are not independent, thinking beings. You could make a more convincing case for giving Furbies equal rights. Are you a supporter of Furby Suffrage?
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Oct 4, 2016 05:03
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Guy Goodbody posted:They can't pass a turing test, they just say roger roger and stuff. There's no evidence of individuality in the battle droids. Someone post the gif of the battle droids in the cockpit in ROTS backing away with their hands up when they're getting cut down.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:06
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The battle droids are individuals who address each other by rank, physically express fear when sent to eliminate the Jedi negotiators, and act puzzled when confronted with unexpected interlopers. They are also slaved to a central controller, and Anakin kills them all by blowing it up.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:07
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Lord Hydronium posted:*And to be clear, this is a pretty relative assessment, since the prequels do not trust institutions at all. But hey, if that's what you want in your Star Wars movie the PT is pitch perfect.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:11
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Guy Goodbody posted:They can't pass a turing test, they just say roger roger and stuff. There's no evidence of individuality in the battle droids. They all shut down when the computer in space gets blown up because they are not independent, thinking beings. You could make a more convincing case for giving Furbies equal rights. Are you a supporter of Furby Suffrage? Furbies cannot speak. They do not have language - do not symbolize. Battle droids do. Do not trivialize the struggle for equal rights. Yaws posted:The prequels don't trust anything really. Liberal Democracies are almost inherently corrupt and easily duped by a single man with an idiot country rube he picked up along the way. The religious Jedi are hamstrung by their outdated beliefs and customs. Every institution loving sucks in the prequels. It's easy to miss because everything about the prequel is poorly done (acting, pacing etc.) but they're cold almost hopeless movies. Star Wars Episode 4 A New Hope.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:14
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Yaws posted:The prequels don't trust anything really. Liberal Democracies are almost inherently corrupt and easily duped by a single man with an idiot country rube he picked up along the way. The religious Jedi are hamstrung by their outdated beliefs and customs. Every institution loving sucks in the prequels. It's easy to miss because everything about the prequel is poorly done (acting, pacing etc.) but they're cold almost hopeless movies. You're supposed to cheer for the Vietcong.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:14
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Lord Hydronium posted:On the surface, it's a very basic fight of a bunch of underdogs teaming up to save the good guy planet from the bad men. But just below the surface - and I mean just, like you really only have to watch the other movies to get this, it's not even subtle - you have the fact that at the end the biggest winner is Palpatine, There's a whole visual element with "just below the surface," too. Naboo is a gorgeous resort planet with marvelous faux-venician architecture. Just beneath the royal palace is a technological hellscape visually identical to the interior of the Death Star.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:16
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Guy Goodbody posted:Maybe you could argue that the super computer deserves rights, if it's actually sentient, which I don't remember any evidence of. But not the individual droids. The super computers in Star Wars actually are sentient, though. C3-PO's job is to speak with them.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:18
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Yaws posted:The prequels don't trust anything really. Liberal Democracies are almost inherently corrupt and easily duped by a single man with an idiot country rube he picked up along the way. The religious Jedi are hamstrung by their outdated beliefs and customs. Every institution loving sucks in the prequels. Power corrupts. It's not an atypical position for movies like this to take (consider how often Star Trek's Starfleet- ostensibly the instrument of a utopian society- is unresponsive and slow moving and it takes a maverick like Kirk to get anything done), the individual over the institution, etc. This isn't too far from the OT (or even TFA)- the Rebels are all right but they're still small and struggling, and they don't have all the answers. Even Lando's desire to protect his mining colony leads to bad things being done. Luke has to learn about the Force from hermits and small strange aliens- people who've cast off worldly power and glory.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:23
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Guy Goodbody posted:They all shut down when the computer in space gets blown up because they are not independent, thinking beings. The slaves on Tatooine would all shut down if the bombs in their heads blew up. Are they not independent, thinking beings?
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Oct 4, 2016 05:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Furbies cannot speak. They do not have language - do not symbolize. Battle droids do. Do not trivialize the struggle for equal rights. Look at this. It speaks English. It responds to stimuli. It expresses joy. It articulates desires. And you would deny it the right to vote? The right to own land? You are a monster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6-xOGv-hx0
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Oct 4, 2016 05:29
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Yaws posted:The prequels don't trust anything really. Liberal Democracies are almost inherently corrupt and easily duped by a single man with an idiot country rube he picked up along the way. The religious Jedi are hamstrung by their outdated beliefs and customs. Every institution loving sucks in the prequels. It's easy to miss because everything about the prequel is poorly done (acting, pacing etc.) but they're cold almost hopeless movies. Also in regards to "easily duped by a single man with an idiot country rube he picked up along the way", have you even seen what's going on in the US's current election? 
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Oct 4, 2016 05:30
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Guy Goodbody posted:Look at this. It speaks English. It responds to stimuli. It expresses joy. It articulates desires. And you would deny it the right to vote? The right to own land? You are a monster. if the droids in any of the star wars movies were replaced with chimpanzees there would be no significant changes required to the plot for it to function, unlike furbies (the planet of the apes remakes are actually pretty much this, funnily enough )
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Oct 4, 2016 05:35
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Lord Hydronium posted:Also in regards to "easily duped by a single man with an idiot country rube he picked up along the way", have you even seen what's going on in the US's current election? And hilariously in the US, the counter-argument mainly is "Our country is already great, no real flaws here, just need an intelligent and responsible manager to stay the course and follow the arc of progress."
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Oct 4, 2016 05:39
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Lord Hydronium posted:. The Republic and Jedi can't save Naboo, but Amidala can go around everyone, beg the Gungans, and work together with them Amidala cruelly exploits the Gungans (Gungans being the ethnic minorities living far away from the respectable elite on the surface). Lucas even goes after Monarchies in the prequels. Is nothing sacred to him? Is he a loving nihilist?!? quote:Also in regards to "easily duped by a single man with an idiot country rube he picked up along the way", have you even seen what's going on in the US's current election? ugh
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Oct 4, 2016 05:49
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Hearing that someone likes the prequels is like hearing someone saw that optical illusion dress from last year as white and gold. No you don't. You're lying to make me mad. There's no possible way.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:51
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PostNouveau posted:Hearing that someone likes the prequels is like hearing someone saw that optical illusion dress from last year as white and gold. Hi PostNouveau, Texas sucks and the prequels are good  also that dress really was white and gold, so
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Oct 4, 2016 05:53
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The entirety of Star Wars demonstrates again and again that droids are people. Only a sociopath would be so devoid of empathy as to continue denying their personhood in the face of evidence from every single movie.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:54
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Zoran posted:Hi PostNouveau, Texas sucks and the prequels are good We do suck this year  I do like the battle droids. They were a cool design.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:55
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PostNouveau posted:We do suck this year My favorites are the droidekas. They're so fantastic and weird.
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Oct 4, 2016 05:56
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Next thing you know you guys will be telling me there's a spaceship or something literally named Slave in these movies.  Hey, wait a second...
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Oct 4, 2016 05:59
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PostNouveau posted:Hearing that someone likes the prequels is like hearing someone saw that optical illusion dress from last year as white and gold. The prequels are not for everyone, but nothing is impossible in Christ.
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Oct 4, 2016 06:04
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My single favorite design in the prequels is the Trade Federation battleship, which has that same blend of the new and familiar that I talked about. The obvious inspiration is the Star Destroyer (probably my favorite design in the whole saga) - it's a big off-white ship that's the main vessel of the bad guys, and the movie starts with the heroes getting drawn into it. But all the particulars of the design are different. The Star Destroyer is aggressive - it's a big arrowhead stabbing forward, telling you that the most dangerous place is right in front of it. But the Federation ship is round, more subtle. It reaches out and grasps - like the Federation, or like Sidious. It's not obviously dangerous until you're inside (the EU actually nicely worked with that theme, by making the battleships converted freighters that could pretend to be harmless). Compare to the Droid Control Ship, which is much spikier, signaling its more direct danger:  Incidentally, we don't see a lot of round ships in Star Wars. It was even a joke in an older title of the Star Wars and Star Trek threads. The only ones I can think of are the Death Star and the TIE fighter. So we know this is a bad guy ship. But it's still alien, a little weird. It's not perfectly geometric like those two designs. These are new bad guys, not just the Empire. In fact, originally the design was a straight up UFO:  It was changed for the better, though. Besides the reasons above, adding that gap in the front gives it a sense of forward motion. It looks ready to pounce. In short, TPM is a gorgeous looking movie and has some excellent design work.
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Oct 4, 2016 06:22
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Lord Hydronium posted:But the Federation ship is round, more subtle. It reaches out and grasps - like the Federation, or like Sidious. I actually never noticed the little hands on the ship until now.
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Oct 4, 2016 06:27
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PostNouveau posted:Hearing that someone likes the prequels is like hearing someone saw that optical illusion dress from last year as white and gold. Well the thing is movies are complex works designed to evoke emotional responses and they tend to do so differently for different viewers, so it is in fact possible for two people to have different opinions on the same movie. There was an interesting long form experiment on the subject which took the form of a review show starring a bald guy and a fat guy with glasses.
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Oct 4, 2016 06:52
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Droids are fictional and work as depicted in the films, regardless of the facts you understand about real-world robots and computers.
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Oct 4, 2016 07:37
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The prequels are no worse than the Hobbit trilogy and are certainly better than crap like Divergent or Resident Evil. However, they(and Twilight) collect an incredible amount of bile by Internet nerds, for reasons beyond my ability to understand. There's no Tezzor for X-Men Origins or A Good Day to Die Hard or any crappy Hollywood romantic comedy. What's especially baffling is that Return of the Jedi is about as good as Phantom Menace but no one actually cares,
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Oct 4, 2016 07:45
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The prequels are really terrible and boring and I feel sorry for those of you who enjoy them.
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Oct 4, 2016 07:53
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FuturePastNow posted:The prequels are really terrible and boring and I feel sorry for those of you who enjoy them. Why feel sorry? We're enjoying something. When looking for movies to watch that have spaceships and laser swords I have 3 more options.
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Oct 4, 2016 07:59
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Here's something to get angry about: I found Data from Star Trek to be more human than any Star Wars droid depicted in any of the Star Wars films.
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Oct 4, 2016 08:13
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