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Bel_Canto posted:Oh sure, they totally can, it just won't happen overnight. It's like integrating into a new country that speaks the same language as you, at least on the surface, but people use some words differently and look at the world in very different ways. The part where we get annoyed (and this happens with converts to many religions, not just Protestant-to-Catholic) is when they start getting their undies in a bunch about how none of the people around them are sufficiently Catholic because they don't read the Catechism for fun. Not only is this deeply uncharitable and skirting close to mortal sin, but the breathtaking arrogance required to be a newcomer and tell people who were born and raised in a religion and have practiced it most or all of their lives that they're doing it wrong really beggars belief. It's like coming to live in Britain and telling the residents that they need to be more like the cast of Downton Abbey. But at least, like HEY GAL said, we have big enough numbers that an rear end in a top hat convert isn't going to be made a bishop: instead they just congregate on CatholicAnswers and r/Catholicism to bitch about their insufficiently-orthodox RCIA instructors. None more zealous than a convert, as they say.
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Oct 4, 2016 16:07
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Cythereal posted:None more zealous than a convert, as they say. There's even a quote to that extent in 1d4chan's page on Word Bearers! 
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Oct 4, 2016 16:12
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Bel_Canto posted:Oh sure, they totally can, it just won't happen overnight. It's like integrating into a new country that speaks the same language as you, at least on the surface, but people use some words differently and look at the world in very different ways. The part where we get annoyed (and this happens with converts to many religions, not just Protestant-to-Catholic) is when they start getting their undies in a bunch about how none of the people around them are sufficiently Catholic because they don't read the Catechism for fun. Not only is this deeply uncharitable and skirting close to mortal sin, but the breathtaking arrogance required to be a newcomer and tell people who were born and raised in a religion and have practiced it most or all of their lives that they're doing it wrong really beggars belief. It's like coming to live in Britain and telling the residents that they need to be more like the cast of Downton Abbey. But at least, like HEY GAL said, we have big enough numbers that an rear end in a top hat convert isn't going to be made a bishop: instead they just congregate on CatholicAnswers and r/Catholicism to bitch about their insufficiently-orthodox RCIA instructors. Now, to be fair, every so often a cradle Catholic is deeply perplexed that her fellow cradle Catholics don't read the Catechism for fun, but at least I don't think that makes someone insufficiently Catholic, just insufficiently informed about what, exactly, is included in the official catechism. The bigger problem with a lot of Protestant-to-Catholic converts is that they "read themselves into" Catholicism, and then they read themselves right back out of it (e.g. Robert Sungenis, who believes that heliocentrism is a heresy Edit: I accidentally accused Sungenis of something extra; the site I was reading said "his antipope", but that was because that was a sedevacantist decrying Sungenis's heliocentrism. zonohedron fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 16:17
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I came out here to have a good time and I feel so attacked right now
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Oct 4, 2016 16:19
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Bel_Canto posted:Oh sure, they totally can, it just won't happen overnight. It's like integrating into a new country that speaks the same language as you, at least on the surface, but people use some words differently and look at the world in very different ways. The part where we get annoyed (and this happens with converts to many religions, not just Protestant-to-Catholic) is when they start getting their undies in a bunch about how none of the people around them are sufficiently Catholic because they don't read the Catechism for fun. Not only is this deeply uncharitable and skirting close to mortal sin, but the breathtaking arrogance required to be a newcomer and tell people who were born and raised in a religion and have practiced it most or all of their lives that they're doing it wrong really beggars belief. It's like coming to live in Britain and telling the residents that they need to be more like the cast of Downton Abbey. But at least, like HEY GAL said, we have big enough numbers that an rear end in a top hat convert isn't going to be made a bishop: instead they just congregate on CatholicAnswers and r/Catholicism to bitch about their insufficiently-orthodox RCIA instructors. Okay, I get you. Kind of like how Charlotte was overdoing judaism after meeting Harry in season five. Oh gods, how do I know this  E: Can I just add that my favorite heresy is the Horus Heresy? 
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Oct 4, 2016 16:44
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Tias posted:E: Can I just add that my favorite heresy is the Horus Heresy? I'm a fan of the Cathars. The Catholic Church could do with more feminism. When I play a Catholic in Crusader Kings 2, I almost always make sure Catharism supplants traditional Catholicism and turns Catholicism itself into a heresy.
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Oct 4, 2016 17:00
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Cythereal posted:I'm a fan of the Cathars. The Catholic Church could do with more feminism.
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Oct 4, 2016 17:05
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Why, whyyyyy do so many Paradox games players believe that the mechanics of Paradox games are how the world actually works?
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Oct 4, 2016 17:08
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Bel_Canto posted:But at least, like HEY GAL said, we have big enough numbers that an rear end in a top hat convert isn't going to be made a bishop... i bet they have much fewer problems with this in ethiopia or romania or something
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Oct 4, 2016 17:09
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HEY GAL posted:i bet they have much fewer problems with this in ethiopia or romania or something ahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahaha
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Oct 4, 2016 17:09
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my dad posted:ahahahahahahahaha
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Oct 4, 2016 17:13
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my dad posted:Why, whyyyyy do so many Paradox games players believe that the mechanics of Paradox games are how the world actually works? It was a joke. I do seriously believe the Catholic Church should emphasize women in the church more (come on, it's past time to let women into the priesthood), and I sympathize greatly with liberation theology regarding Catholicism, but no I don't actually want to resurrect the Cathars.
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Oct 4, 2016 17:14
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my dad posted:Why, whyyyyy do so many Paradox games players believe that the mechanics of Paradox games are how the world actually works? Because they're filthy Simulationists.
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Oct 4, 2016 17:15
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My priest said that when he was in seminary there was a contingent of Serbians there and they would just poo poo talk the converts all day and night for living in a sinful country and not being very orthodox
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Oct 4, 2016 17:17
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Because they're filthy Simulationists. Also, I think we'd know if the world worked like Paradox.  
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Oct 4, 2016 17:26
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Stop making me want to play CK2 again when I'm out of country without a PC, you jerks!  Fake edit: so anyway last weekend in Berlin I met nega-System Metternich: a young EME historian and liturgically conservative theologian with an interest in language. Too bad that he's also Protestant and Prussian as gently caress
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Oct 4, 2016 19:04
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Cythereal posted:It was a joke. I do seriously believe the Catholic Church should emphasize women in the church more (come on, it's past time to let women into the priesthood), and I sympathize greatly with liberation theology regarding Catholicism, but no I don't actually want to resurrect the Cathars. You should read James Hal Cone
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Oct 4, 2016 20:42
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i didn't think much about it before i signed the lease, but at my new place there is a big huge church literally in my backyard. they have a bell tower, and also, when they have choir practice, if the weather is nice they open the windows, which point directly toward my bedroom 
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Oct 5, 2016 00:53
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HEY GAL posted:the problem with famous people who convert to orthodoxy is they immediately start writing about orthodoxy Netiher Tom Hanks nor Troy Polamalu do this, and they're both fine as far as I'm concerned.
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Oct 5, 2016 02:10
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Netiher Tom Hanks nor Troy Polamalu do this, and they're both fine as far as I'm concerned. Tom Hanks is definitely pants on head insane when it comes to sperging over details of his favorite things - thankfully for us all they largely entail portraying WW2 and not going full Luther!
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Oct 5, 2016 06:46
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And co-producing My Big Fat Greek Wedding. Also, something I thought the thread would like: https://twitter.com/CarolineWazer/status/783346974217084929
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Oct 5, 2016 15:25
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my dad posted:Why, whyyyyy do so many Paradox games players believe that the mechanics of Paradox games are how the world actually works? Indeed, when all along it's been Rockstar whose really understood the machinations of man...
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Oct 5, 2016 15:31
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Caufman posted:Indeed, when all along it's been Rockstar whose really understood the machinations of man... Nah. Rockstar generally tries to make you feel bad for being a psychopath in game. I'd say look to Volition and the Saint's Row series. One major character is even strongly implied to be a priest or pastor of some Christian denomination.
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Oct 5, 2016 15:50
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Keromaru5 posted:And co-producing My Big Fat Greek Wedding. She has good reach.
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Oct 5, 2016 15:52
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Cythereal posted:Nah. Rockstar generally tries to make you feel bad for being a psychopath in game. I'd say look to Volition and the Saint's Row series. One major character is even strongly implied to be a priest or pastor of some Christian denomination. Johnny Gat?
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Oct 5, 2016 18:56
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JcDent posted:Johnny Gat? Benjamin King. He's based out of a church and wears a stole.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:08
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Hello Christian goons! This is an excellent thread. I am a lapsed Jew, and I have a bunch of questions. I'll start with the simplest. Regarding the Trinity, "Father" and "Son" is pretty self explanatory, but what is "Holy Spirit" supposed to be?
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Oct 6, 2016 03:51
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SirPhoebos posted:Hello Christian goons! This is an excellent thread. I am a lapsed Jew, and I have a bunch of questions. I'll start with the simplest. You forgot an important part of your question, I've fixed it for you. *thread schisms* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque The Holy Spirit is pretty hard to explain or understand, which is one of its defining features. It's sort of the more mystical aspect of the Trinity, invisible but often depicted as a dove. The Holy Spirit communicates grace and guides many aspects of Christian life such as interpreting scripture. It's behind-the-scenes God. Christians would say the Spirit dwells in all of us and pushes all of us toward righteousness and God. Someone who seeks a vocation or converts to Christianity would be "called by the Spirit," someone who lives a good Christian life and is a great example to the community is "full of the Spirit." I like to think of it in terms of the original Hebrew which refers to the "breath" of God. The Holy Spirit is the breath of God and giver of life, invisible but working within all of us. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 04:13
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Pellisworth posted:You forgot an important part of your question, I've fixed it for you. *thread schisms* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque Indiana Jones has a lot of this kind of thing.
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Oct 6, 2016 04:18
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SirPhoebos posted:Regarding the Trinity, "Father" and "Son" is pretty self explanatory, but what is "Holy Spirit" supposed to be? i don't know if this is dogmatically correct, but i always thought the holy spirit was kind of the mystical part of god that is accessible to one's idiot human brain and body
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Oct 6, 2016 04:50
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i don't know if this is dogmatically correct, but i always thought the holy spirit was kind of the mystical part of god that is accessible to one's idiot human brain and body *schisming intensifies*
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Oct 6, 2016 06:21
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hello I would like to announce the publication of my own new Christianity thread (a return to the original Christianity thread), which will not tolerate papists or other idolatrous heretics but will adhere sincerely to the sola scriptura principles of shitpostingMartin Luther posted:Gently, dear Pauli, dear donkey, don't dance around! Oh, dearest little rear end, don't dance around - dearest, dearest little donkey, don't do it. For the ice is very solidly frozen this year because there was no wind - you might fall and break a leg. If a fart should escape you while you were falling, the whole world would laugh at you and say, "Ugh, the devil! How the rear end has befouled himself!" And that would be a great crime. Oh, that would be dangerous! So consider your own great danger beforehand, Hellish One.
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Oct 6, 2016 06:43
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Martin Luther posted:I was frightened and thought I was dreaming, it was such a thunderclap, such a great horrid fart did you let go here! You certainly pressed with great might to let out such a thunderous fart - it is a wonder that it did not tear your hole and belly apart! welp your writings have certainly earned the descriptor "scatological," good job Marty L the Lutheran Insulter continues to be amazing http://ergofabulous.org/luther/ SHOUTOUT BIG MARTY L O.G. TROLL
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Oct 6, 2016 06:48
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Cross posting, for those of you that way inclined (since I promised it in the previous iteration of this thread, as well): Disinterested posted:Medieval Political Thought I: Augustine of Hippo
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Oct 6, 2016 07:36
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SirPhoebos posted:Hello Christian goons! This is an excellent thread. I am a lapsed Jew, and I have a bunch of questions. I'll start with the simplest. I am not a theologian. I practice Catholicism, try to hang out with as many other denominations and faiths and nonfaiths, and the following answer does not come from my catechism. It has been most helpful for me to think of the Holy Spirit as what it sounds like, the spirit of holiness. We can observe holiness practiced in many different ways by men and women past, present and future. Siddhartha Gautama is a holy man who went into the wilderness and fasted to receive wisdom about creation. John the Baptist and Jesus do this, too. Billions of us normal homo sapiens do small or profound, regular or infrequent acts of holiness, particular to our context and experience, in attempts to establish some kind of rapport with the mysteries or divinities of our existences. I've understood the Holy Spirit to be the nonphysical qualities which connect all of these countless individual experiences, and Christianity also believes this spirit of holiness to be God, and so has the properties of also being omnipresent, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent. The takeaway consequence for me is a respect for the holy traditions and practices that everyone has a right to, within my circles and without. Keeping in mind that there are still charlatans, for the most part folks try to engage the deep mysteries with as much sincerity as they can muster, and I bear witness that they do this in the presence of a spirit of God.
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Oct 6, 2016 08:27
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Smoking Crow posted:*schisming intensifies* man i don't know wtf im talking about, c'mon i will say that the only part of the movie Hail Caesar that i throught was genuinely funny was when the producer character has meeting with the religious leaders, one Catholic, one Orthodox, one Protestant, and also a rabbi for some reason. they all start going on about the nature of Jesus and the producer guy eventually just throws up his hands and walks out yesss somebody uploaded it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJEiDRi4Itc Lutha Mahtin fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 13:56
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Would ask for prayers that make job searching easier or something. Can't say how fervent they should be because I have only a very tenuous grasp on the realities of my finances and the labor market.
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Oct 6, 2016 14:15
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Pellisworth posted:
Okay, that bit went over my head. Can you elaborate? Besides that, thanks for answering my first question. My next ones are about the New Testament. How come there are four Books of the Apostles when they broadly cover the same events (by which I mean the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus)? Is there anything that distinguishes one book from the other, so that if by some miracle a whole new verse was uncovered a biblical scholar could reasonably say "that belongs in Such-and-Such"? Is there a specific order they should be read in? Beyond those four and Revelations, what are the other books like "Romans" or "Letters" supposed to be about? Is there a hierarchy of what books are more authoritative or are they equally important? EDIT: I read the link Pellisworth, and I think I get what the big deal is, but it seems like a minor cause for the 1054 schism as opposed to "don't see the Pope as our boss". EDIT2: Okay, that's 
SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 16:46
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I want to take a crack at these questions but it will have to wait until after work. Til then, baited breath.
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Oct 6, 2016 17:20
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SirPhoebos posted:
It was a joke about one of the major doctrinal differences between Western and Eastern Christianity. The original Nicene Creed states that the Holy Spirit "proceeds" from the Father, and later the Latin Church added "and from the Son" to that statement. We often joke that this is the root of the Great Schism, although it's pretty obvious that it had as much or more to do with the politics of the time than with theological differences. The Gospels each have different emphases, and they don't need to be read in a particular order, although people usually advise reading the Matthew, Mark, and Luke first: they're called the Synoptic Gospels, because they take a pretty similar view of Christ: a man who did extraordinary things, claimed He was the Son of God, and then showed this to be true when He rose from the dead. The Gospel of John is far more explicitly mystical, and from the very beginning emphasizes Christ's nature as the self-existent Word through Whom all things were made. It's also the most explicitly antisemitic of the four, which one should bear in mind before reading it. After the Gospels you have the Acts of the Apostles, which describes what the Apostles did after the resurrected Christ ascended into heaven: highlights include the descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, deciding whether Gentiles could be baptized (and, when it was decided that they could, to what extent the Mosaic Law still bound Christians), and the conversions of various Gentile peoples to Christianity. Then pretty much all the Apostles get martyred. After Acts, you get the Epistles, which are divided into the Pauline Epistles (letters thought to be written by St. Paul and titled after their audience) and the General Epistles (traditionally ascribed to other Apostles and titled after their authors). These are letters, supposedly written by Paul and other Apostles, to various Christian communities or to Christians generally. They expound on the beliefs of the early Church, and many of them deal with issues faced by Christians interacting with a non-Christian world. The important thing to note is that none of these books is more canonical than any other: all, along with the Tanakh, are part of the Bible and regarded as the inspired and inerrant* word of God. Liturgically, the Gospels are given special prominence: a typical Western liturgy will have an Old Testament reading, a psalm, an Epistle (which can be Acts, one of the epistles, or Revelation), and then the book of the Gospels will be brought out with special reverence and part of one of the Gospels will be read. In the Catholic Church it's traditional to sit for the first two readings but to stand for the Gospel. *The definition and scope of "inerrant" is one of the most hotly-contested points in the entirety of Christian theology, particularly among American Protestants, whose views range from "the core message is holy but you have to throw out a lot" to "every word and comma of the King James Bible is completely true and without any error whatsoever, please come visit the Creation Science Museum."
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