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I cannot think of a lazier reason to set something in an asylum, goddamn.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:33
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Hey man, don't diss Trevor, he is a nice boy.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:33
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boy are my arms tired posted:not to diminish this thought but the idea behind outlast (and whistleblower) is that you are alone in the haunted house, having a character to tag along, or create a larger emotional connection with, would be antithetical to this bulletpoint, which is likely why they didn't go that route What about Father Martin though? He's literally an ally in the game, if an unpredictable one with his own agenda, but he IS someone that's guiding the player. And I don't mean full on escort quest style thing. Even just a ten minute sequence of meeting a guy who helps unlock doors or something and who tells you why he's there and how afraid he is of what will happen to him because he's gay and the other inmates know it or something like that. Again, just something to put some actual thought behind the sexual violence against men and not just using it for shock value, and horror games are good genres to get the player emotionally invested and then threaten to take it away or give it a negative conclusion. Safari Disco Lion fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 20:34
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VoidBurger posted:Hey man, don't diss Trevor, he is a nice boy. im going through the game in my head again and while we're talking about problematic, how about that S&M club scene, yikes
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Oct 5, 2016 20:36
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boy are my arms tired posted:oof that's awful I've never read a game dev interview that didn't make me come away disappointed. Actually, no, Eurogamer's sit-down with The Chinese Room was actually very nice. Sucks that they dropped out of the business a couple months later because one of the directors was terminally ill.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:36
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Safari Disco Lion posted:What about Father Martin though? He's literally an ally in the game, if an unpredictable one with his own agenda, but he IS someone that's guiding the player. the difference between father martin, blessed be his name, and your idea though, is that you see father martin for a few scenes before he bounces out of existence, and he pops up every now and then but isn't a constant companion needing protection or forging an emotional bond granted he's the closest thing to an ally you get in the game, but its tenuous at best and nonexistent for the most part e: i'd go as far as saying that the one inmate that cracks his skull on the wall repeatedly before following you around for a few rooms has the same emotional investment as father martin
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Oct 5, 2016 20:37
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As a gay dude I see nothing that Outlast or Whistle blower did as wrong in any way, just a subversion of a horror trope. Also omg horror is problematic!? :clutchespearls:
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Oct 5, 2016 20:38
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Trevor deserved better. Phantasmogoria 2 does a lot of poo poo wrong -- explorations of kink, gender, and sexuality -- but Trevor is never portrayed as anything but a good dude.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:38
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Outlast did have people that either didn't want to harm you, guided you or just wanted to be left alone. The dangerous ones were really a minority. Anyways I think its fine they didn't have some side character being like 'hello im gay and powerful and your friend'. Not maybe that stereotypical and forced but there just isn't really a place for sympathetic side scharacters to be inserted there in general without it feeling weird, you're alone and you're scared and that is fine for me I guess. I mean some note implicating some guy aint straight would be ok but eh, not a big deal for me as I didn't feel the homophobia angle at all anyways e: it is impossible to keep up with the thread on mobile, already there have been things said I wouldve responded to in this post oh my god penises really get conversations going around here smuh fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 20:39
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VoidBurger posted:I'm curious why you think these guys look like this in the game? I'd argue against a suggestion that Outlast itself is homophobic by inspiring homophobic rage on the part of the audience. If anything, trying to inspire such feelings could be an intentional attempt to target people who get uncomfortable by homosexuality rather than the developers themselves thinking "You know what makes me scared? Gay men raping me to death. Put it in the game."
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Oct 5, 2016 20:40
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Bogart posted:Phantasmogoria 2 does a lot of poo poo wrong -- explorations of kink, gender, and sexuality see also - storytelling, gameplay, fmv usage
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Oct 5, 2016 20:40
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A. Beaverhausen posted:Also omg horror is problematic!? :clutchespearls: Something being bad about things for a long time isn't the best excuse for something to continue being bad about things. I don't even mean like "the horror genre" or anything right now either, I'm just really tired of that defense being used for anything anymore, "Thing that's frequently been lovely about something is being lovely about something? Why I never!" is a bad argument that tries to shut down oftentimes legit critiques of things under the guise of "PC gone mad!" and similar pearl clutching just of another flavor. smuh posted:Penises really get conversations going around here I take responsibility, to think everything came from just mentioning that 2 still wants to have it's crotch violence. 
Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 20:43
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A. Beaverhausen posted:Also omg horror is problematic!? :clutchespearls: I would argue that most genuinely problematic horror media is forgotten about very quickly whereas a lot of the all-time classics of the genre(i.e. Frankenstein, Alien, Jacob's Ladder) were very progressive for their time. e: There's a fine line between horror being used to explore a sensitive issue and exploiting that sensitive issue to instill a cheap sense of horror. Outlast stands all the way on the latter side of that line. JordanKai fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 20:46
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Yardbomb posted:Something being bad about things for a long time isn't the best excuse for something to continue being bad about things. I don't even mean like "the horror genre" or anything right now either, I'm just really tired of that defense being used for anything anymore, "Thing that's frequently been lovely about something is being lovely about something? Why I never!" is a bad argument that tries to shut down oftentimes legit critiques of things under the guise of "PC gone mad!" and similar pearl clutching just of another flavor. i wish i could take dong violence as a name fake edit: damnit you edited it
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Oct 5, 2016 20:46
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smuh posted:but there just isn't really a place for sympathetic side scharacters to be inserted there in general without it feeling weird But, again (not sure if it's because the thread is moving quickly so apologies if so), this isn't true. There are already sympathetic characters in the game, and you're not alone at all. This is more true of the first game than Whistleblower.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:49
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boy are my arms tired posted:see also - storytelling, gameplay, fmv usage That FMV was great, take it back. 
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Oct 5, 2016 20:50
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A. Beaverhausen posted:As a gay dude I see nothing that Outlast or Whistle blower did as wrong in any way, just a subversion of a horror trope. Also omg horror is problematic!? :clutchespearls: As a gay dude I see plenty that Outlast or Whistle blower did as wrong, thus equalling and cancelling out this post, so everyone has to rely on critical thinking in this discussion instead of appeals to authority. chitoryu12 posted:I'd argue against a suggestion that Outlast itself is homophobic by inspiring homophobic rage on the part of the audience. If anything, trying to inspire such feelings could be an intentional attempt to target people who get uncomfortable by homosexuality rather than the developers themselves thinking "You know what makes me scared? Gay men raping me to death. Put it in the game." I think the problem is then that they've created a product that makes a homophobic reaction to said product 'justified' and the viewpoint reinforced. I kinda doubt people playing it are likely to examine why they felt the way they did about it, it's not really the kind of thing that's likely to inspire self-reflection.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:51
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Bogart posted:That FMV was great, take it back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krKNiPmhVc0
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Oct 5, 2016 20:52
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Safari Disco Lion posted:But, again (not sure if it's because the thread is moving quickly so apologies if so), this isn't true. There are already sympathetic characters in the game, and you're not alone at all. This is more true of the first game than Whistleblower.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:53
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boy are my arms tired posted:im going through the game in my head again and while we're talking about problematic, how about that S&M club scene, yikes I'd also argue that the story and the acting was actually pretty good, there was only one or two characters who were awful actors. And when people say the gameplay is bad, they're usually only thinking of the (rushed and godfuckingawful) end bits when you're in an alien environment fixing an alien machine. Yes, it was terrible gameplay, but it doesn't undo the rest of the game and what it was trying to do. And yeah, Trevor is a very well-portrayed gay dude who genuinely cares about the protagonist, who is a conflicted bisexual dude. Puzzle of Flesh had a lot of awkward stumbling points, but people really don't give it enough credit in other areas  As an aside: I don't see why Silent Hill 2's acting is praised for being good and "intentionally awkward, adding to the horror feel" and Puzzle of Flesh's is panned when it's waaaay less awkward than SH2's, in my opinion! I wonder if people cling to that because it's got live actors and not game models, maybe? VoidBurger fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 20:53
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VoidBurger posted:Trevor wasn't in those bits, though? oh dang i got trevor and curtis mixed up, my bad trevor deffo deserved better and his death scene was probably the most unsettling thing in the game for me. love that they brought him back as a zombie though e: i would argue that the ending does undo the sum of its parts though, the ending was very convoluted and rushed and completely drew away from what it was trying to do originally, which like you said is explore conflicted feelings of curtis. all that worldbuilding and character depth exploration and it was all wasted on aliens boy are my arms tired fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 20:56
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I think all games should have as much dick&balls as possible until it becomes a norm and nobody can raise a fuss about it I dunno, I can never really be offended/annoyed when a game has something as natural as human nudity in it unless its for perving reasons. Like if seeing a floppy rear end dong on a dude makes you go WHOA NELLY instead of 'huh' then that's never the games fault. e: ooh phantasmagoria 2 discussions! It really was cool that it not only had a cool gay guy buddy man, but also the mc was bisexual portrayed in a positive way which has to be the first and last a game has done that. Real cool for the time it was made. smuh fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 20:58
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One of my favourite things about Phantasmagoria 2 is that Trevor has an edge of the stereotypical effeminate gay man to him for most of the game, but once things start going down and he's in actual danger he drops it completely. The implication being that it's all just an act he's putting on as a self-defence mechanism. "Yeah I'm gay. Like, way gay." It's surprisingly pensive for a "shock" horror game from the 90s.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:59
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smuh posted:I think all games should have as much dick&balls as possible until it becomes a norm and nobody can raise a fuss about it
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Oct 5, 2016 21:00
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Make all monsters anatomically correct like Satan from the Dante's Inferno game.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:01
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Yardbomb posted:Make all monsters anatomically correct like Satan from the Dante's Inferno game. Hahaha I was JUST going to post about that. Also Piggsy from manhunt hangs dong, but it's done in a way that you'll only ever see it as a silhouette if there's light behind him.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:04
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Yardbomb posted:Make all monsters anatomically correct like Satan from the Dante's Inferno game.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:05
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actually i just realized i never saw or played phantasmagoria 1 and so i have no idea how it relates to 2 2 felt like we were introduced to curtis and crew in that game only so what happens in 1? horror aliens again but this time with other nerdy dude?
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Oct 5, 2016 21:06
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boy are my arms tired posted:actually i just realized i never saw or played phantasmagoria 1 and so i have no idea how it relates to 2 It's like a weird supernatural murder mystery set in an old castle/mansion. The two games have very little to do with each other apart from gameplay structure.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:08
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smuh posted:I think all games should have as much dick&balls as possible until it becomes a norm and nobody can raise a fuss about it Dad Simulator is the height of survival horror
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Oct 5, 2016 21:09
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boy are my arms tired posted:actually i just realized i never saw or played phantasmagoria 1 and so i have no idea how it relates to 2
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Oct 5, 2016 21:09
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JordanKai posted:It's like a weird supernatural murder mystery set in an old castle/mansion. The two games have very little to do with each other apart from gameplay structure. smuh posted:No relation to each other. 1 is a demon in a house posessing your husband story. Its also much worse in every way. disappointing, but thanks, least i don't have to hunt it down
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Oct 5, 2016 21:10
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smuh posted:Actually about Outlast, I felt it didn't have any problem with the "people in mental institutes are murderous psychopats" trope. I say this because while it feels like that in the beginning, the game makes it clear all of the inhabitants are victims of the horrors done to them. Hell, it's a game where I felt really sorry for all the people sitting around losing their minds in a messed up hellhole they've been abandoned in, even the guys trying to kill me I was sympathetic with. With the exception of I think a couple boss type enemies that were straight up assholes even before going insane. Anyways I feel like it did something right to make me feel this way. Yeah, the horror of Outlast, to me, is how Institutions (military, government, corporate, etc) mistreat people and twist them up inside and out, and how we as private citizens deliberately ignore it in order to reap the benefits (even if sometimes the benefit is just "can go to sleep at night") without guilt and thereby allow it to happen. Everything in Outlast is the result of society allowing a segment of its population to be used, allowing a literal Nazi scientist to continue his work on American soil, allowing young men to be thrown into senseless wars, allowing our government to go lax on mental healthcare, allowing a private organization to run a psychiatric institution with limited oversight, etc. Our heroes are investigative journalists and whistleblowers trying to make us aware of what's really happening for a reason. All the ding dongs and ding dong related violence is there because these are tortured men reduced to animal like states. Apes will try and tear your dick off when pissed off or disturbed enough to employ violence too.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:10
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Nah it's some weirdo ghost possessing a husband in a castle. P2 put in a lot of improvements, honestly. I'lll give you my P1 steam key from an old humble bundle if you wanna play it, cause I'll never do it.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:10
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Dad Simulator is the height of survival horror The amount of scare-cam streamers playing "Shower With Your Dad Simulator" is ridiculous.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:11
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boy are my arms tired posted:actually i just realized i never saw or played phantasmagoria 1 and so i have no idea how it relates to 2 Phantasmagoria was intended to be a horror anthology, kinda like how The Twilight Zone episodes are not really related. It's too bad they only got up to the second one The first one is WAY clunkier, WAY more obscure, and has WAY worse acting. It's also terribly paced and super boring until the last like 15 minutes of the game, which is the part everyone remembers because it suddenly gets gorey out of nowhere.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:11
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Bogart posted:Nah it's some weirdo ghost possessing a husband in a castle. P2 put in a lot of improvements, honestly. I'lll give you my P1 steam key from an old humble bundle if you wanna play it, cause I'll never do it. holy poo poo its on steam? if you don't want it then sure, i'd take it, thanks
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Oct 5, 2016 21:11
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boy are my arms tired posted:actually i just realized i never saw or played phantasmagoria 1 and so i have no idea how it relates to 2 Isn't it a Silent Hill 1/2 type deal where the original game and the sequel are set in the same 'universe' but don't share characters or general storylines in common? And the player character is a woman? Edit: Welp, gotta type quicker and/or refresh more frequently, I guess
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Oct 5, 2016 21:11
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boy are my arms tired posted:holy poo poo its on steam? Yeah. I guess it was Sierra? Bunch of them came out at once. I'll PM you once I get to my computer.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:13
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Turpitude II posted:Isn't it a Silent Hill 1/2 type deal where the original game and the sequel are set in the same 'universe' but don't share characters or general storylines in common? And the player character is a woman? In 2 you get a letter announcing the girl from 1 is having a book signing about her experience.
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