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Two years, felt like yesterday Trin made his first WWI diary post in this the best thread on SA. Thankd for your work Trin
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Oct 5, 2016 11:10
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Trin Tragula posted:100 Years Ago: An Announcement I'm just glad you are not dead. Thanks for the posts, I don't have a problem with a transition to effort posts for big events. I was always amazed you managed to find the time, thanks for all your hard work. I bought the books but haven't read them yet, I should go and catch up on '14 and '15.
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Oct 5, 2016 11:48
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Aye, Trin it's been fantastic and such a Herculean effort.
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Oct 5, 2016 13:05
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Comstar posted:I have learnt far more about the events of WW1 than I ever knew- particularly about the non-western front, thank you. At this cliff hanger on The Somme, the audience would be calling for Haig to be shot IMHO. With the series ending, he never gets redeemed, but never faces justice either.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:24
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Nenonen posted:True if you have an accurate gun. But what if you're using a rudimentary cannon that fires stone balls of varying shapes and weight with uneven qualities of gunpowder, and also the gun moves by recoil on each shot? How can you ever correct when there is so much randomness? Another reason why gunners are highly trained specialists - they practice a lot, and they eliminate as many of the variables as they can (making their own powder, chipping and weighing shot, etc). It's not like people before the modern era were retarded, they could figure poo poo out by observation.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:27
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JcDent posted:My only regret is that I never had the time/discipline of mind to read them. Thank you, Tin! You were one of the biggest factors into my newfound appreciation of WWI. One of the most bad rear end moments of these men wasn't under fire during combat in this conflict. During the retreat of 1812 the now rapidly disintergrating forces under Napoleon encountered a slight problem. They had to get to Poland but they had two obstacles in the way. One was the river Berezina, the other opposite was a Russian Army determined to try and keep them pinned down long enough for the armies in pursuit to finally lock down and force that mythical beast the deceisive battle and crush Napoleon once and for all. The local bridge had been of course blown the gently caress up so they couldn't use that and locally anything that could be used for bridging had been taken. Lucky for Bonaparte General Jean Baptiste Eblé had some foresight that Eastern Europe and Russia is loving massive and maybe we shouldn't destory all our forging and engineering equipment despite being told it was slowing down the retreat. So with the speed and great determination during this cold as gently caress night (this is in the middle of cold as gently caress winter) the French Sappers with some armed escort got across to the western bank of the river to construct two massive pontoon bridges across the river whilst to the South Marshal Oudinot fought a delaying action keeping the Russians busy. Now these Sappers were not just French mind you, some of them were badasses from the former armies of the Netherlands. The water was loving cold, as in you could only spend 10-15 minutes at the most before coming out because any longer and you would freeze to death. Oh and it was full of ice too. Thick sharp broken up ice floats. These Sappers some of which were stripper to the waist (most of them had barely eaten enough or slept properly too) managed to buld and complete the first of two pontoon bridges in the night. The first soldiers to cross were whole sections of the remaining Swiss and artillery pieces to set up a defensive position and the rear guard for the crossing. For the next day or so huge amounts of soldiers, materiel and stragglers carefully hobbled across these bridges. The spans for one broke but it was rapidly repeared by the now same tired out French-Dutch Sappers who I imagine were now in some sort of 'I'll rest when I'm safe or dead' mental state. Eventually the Grand Armee ran out of time and on the Midnight of the 28th it was decided to basically get ready to get the gently caress out into Poland. During these lasts hours many had to fall back across these bridges before the Russian Army cut them off. During this chaos a lot of soldiers, stragglers and horses caused a crush on these bridges and people were horribly trampled or slipped over the wet icy sides too weak to swim. It was pretty drat harrowing. So harrowing a French expression sort of was born of it.
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Oct 5, 2016 14:39
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On a less harrowing note, Israel DLC for Wargame dropped yesterday. I can't decide what's funnier: various experiments with Shermans or the traditional video game inability to cope with mechanized infantry that leads to 15 guys sharing one humwee or 10-man squads cramming themselves into Merkavas. Slightly back on topic: what would have happened to the French if the Russians captured? What was the usual fate of PoWs in Napoleonic wars
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Oct 5, 2016 14:55
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Comstar posted:I have learnt far more about the events of WW1 than I ever knew- particularly about the non-western front, thank you. At this cliff hanger on The Somme, the audience would be calling for Haig to be shot IMHO. With the series ending, he never gets redeemed, but never faces justice either. Windows 8 and 10 have a kindle app, same as iOS and android (they'd better at least, even windows mobile does). Also, All-pro or anyone else who has a documented reason, why did the Nelsons have torp tubes? As far as I know the US was moving away from underwater tubes after WWI in part because of battle damage that I believe was mainly/entirely to British ships, but the Brits put some on the Nelsons anyway. Was it just that the UK didn't rate the risk as highly, was it that the Nelsons were particularly long so unlike the US they wouldn't be potentially impinging on the TDS or structural bulkheads around the turrets and the US was operating under an implicit context of those sacrifices, or was it something else entirely?
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Oct 5, 2016 15:00
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JcDent posted:On a less harrowing note, Israel DLC for Wargame dropped yesterday. I can't decide what's funnier: various experiments with Shermans or the traditional video game inability to cope with mechanized infantry that leads to 15 guys sharing one humwee or 10-man squads cramming themselves into Merkavas. Well, It wasn't good. If they were super unlucky and were caught by the Cossacks or the Partisans, they'd either be scape goated and butchered on the spot or assigned to a village as slave labour. Even in more civilised confinement they'd still have to march with their captors who are barely as well fed as they were through the cold winter to captivity.
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Oct 5, 2016 15:01
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Officers were typically paroled and taken care of by the officers' mess of the capturing regiment in the near term, and in the long term were either exchanged or sent to fairly cushy detainment in rear areas. Enlisted could also be recruited to serve in the army of their captors.
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Oct 5, 2016 15:10
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Officers were typically paroled and taken care of by the officers' mess of the capturing regiment in the near term, and in the long term were either exchanged or sent to fairly cushy detainment in rear areas. Did the Russians ever try to raise some some or pro-Bourbon Legion or something earlier before Napoleon I wonder?
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Oct 5, 2016 15:13
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Not to my knowledge. A bunch of Prussians served with the Russians, but mostly officers.
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Oct 5, 2016 15:21
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During Crimean War Russian officers captured by Brits were allowed to bring their wives to England, they could come and go as they pleased and the British government even paid them an allowance so they could attend social events like noblemen drat well should be.
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Oct 5, 2016 15:22
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The whole bringing your wives to war thing was pretty controversial if you were a soldier. During the retreat to Coruna sadly, whole families including the soldiers sometimes as well pretty much died on the road from hunger or fatigue. The worst thing about this was before the retreat they were offered to be shipped out with the Royal Navy but a majority of the women refused and stayed with their men  .
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Oct 5, 2016 15:24
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Officers don't starve do they?
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Oct 5, 2016 15:27
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Boiled Water posted:Officers don't starve do they? They starved and died with their men in Coruna. And in the 1812 retreat with the French. Craufurd in Coruna was not be hosed with, any officer doing that poo poo would have been punished.
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Oct 5, 2016 15:31
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Boiled Water posted:Officers don't starve do they? They starve less frequently and to a lesser degree, but at some point everyone starves. SeanBeansShako posted:The whole bringing your wives to war thing was pretty controversial if you were a soldier. Battalions had a wives' allotment where there were up to a certain number of enlisted men's wives allowed per Bn. Enlisted had to get permission to married. Of course, there were unofficially carried wives, camp followers, etc all the time. Most enlisted soldiers didn't bring their wives to war, they found wives while at war and then brought them along if possible. Officers mostly used the war as a reason to mack on the local talent while the wife was at home.
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Oct 5, 2016 15:38
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Here's something else that might be relevant to the thread's interests. A few weeks ago I went on a pleasant little holiday to Germany, and I was minding my own business when a band of roaming landsknechts carried me off and forced me to spend an entire weekend leaving a very important part of my brain somewhere in a field in Bavaria... Not pictured: The wonderful old boy with a giant moustache and an abiding love of very expensive single-malt Scotch who needed somebody to drink it with him and speculate on the effects of Brexit as regards potential whisky import duties. It was a tough job, but somebody had to do it.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:44
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xthetenth posted:Also, All-pro or anyone else who has a documented reason, why did the Nelsons have torp tubes? As far as I know the US was moving away from underwater tubes after WWI in part because of battle damage that I believe was mainly/entirely to British ships, but the Brits put some on the Nelsons anyway. Was it just that the UK didn't rate the risk as highly, was it that the Nelsons were particularly long so unlike the US they wouldn't be potentially impinging on the TDS or structural bulkheads around the turrets and the US was operating under an implicit context of those sacrifices, or was it something else entirely? Brown, The Grand Fleet, mentions the debate with respect to the G3 battlecruiser design. I assume the arguments were similar in Nelson. Not much in the way of a conclusion, sadly. quote:Two beam-mounted 24.5in torpedo tubes were intended with six torpedoes each (to be increased to eight in war), and an oxygen enrichment plant was fitted. DNC argued against the torpedo armament but was overruled. It is interesting that the staff read the lessons of the war as justifying both torpedo tubes and the heavy secondary armament [of 12x6"], the opposite to the views given in Chapter 3.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:10
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JcDent posted:Slightly back on topic: what would have happened to the French if the Russians captured? What was the usual fate of PoWs in Napoleonic wars According to this article, of about 110,000 French and allied prisoners taken in 1812, about 65,000 had died by early 1813. Which isn't surprising since malnutrition and disease were serious problems even in the early days of the invasion, which the cold during the retreat only made worse. But it was expected (at least officially) that those who survived be taken care of, with the obvious caveat that the resources for doing so weren't always available.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:25
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lenoon posted:This is everything from the first page of the first ww1 book onwards, I have no idea why I slugged all the way through those terribly unimaginative pieces of alt-history. Annals of a Fortress is an interesting read. It's a fictional account of the development of fortifications around a strategic location over the course of hundreds of years, but it's a good representation of how such developments actually occurred. It was written by Eugene Viollet-le-Duc, an architect who had experience planning and building fortifications during the Franco-Prussian War. Admiral Snackbar fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 17:34
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:They starve less frequently and to a lesser degree, but at some point everyone starves.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:58
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:Brown, The Grand Fleet, mentions the debate with respect to the G3 battlecruiser design. I assume the arguments were similar in Nelson. Not much in the way of a conclusion, sadly. I am but I'd similarly love to know the list that was presented at the time, IE whether one or more weren't considered a big deal at that point/for that design. Also I'll probably have to pick that up at some point, I'm currently working on getting my first really well stocked section going on carriers.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:40
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Hey trin you don't have PMs you bum. Shoot me an email at username at google's mail.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:48
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Cyrano4747 posted:Hey trin you don't have PMs you bum. Shoot me an email at username at google's mail.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:16
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HEY GAL posted:yes he does-- it's under all his posts, same as the rest of the plat-havers Doesn't show if you're not plat, through. Besides, he's a mod now, he can communicate through Divine Decree.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:41
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Trin Tragula posted:100 Years Ago: An Announcement Others have covered in detail how superb your blog was. So in the best traditions of SA I shall simply say  I shall look forward to any commentary on future key moments you have time to write.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:44
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HEY GAL posted:yes he does-- it's under all his posts, same as the rest of the plat-havers Man awful app does some weird poo poo if you're a mod. At least that's what I blame as now I'm not seeing PMs available for anyone.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:01
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HEY GAL posted:there are other things that running out of money gets you, which i hadn't expected as a modern American: when the Mansfeld Regiment hit Frankfurt am Main the officers didn't have the money to travel back to eastern Germany in a manner befitting their rank (escorts, trains of horses, etc), so they just stayed there with the remaining/surviving Mansfelders, racking up debts and complaining a bunch. It's possible they could have left if they had wanted to travel alone, etc., but every one of them would rather have stayed there than do something out of keeping with their station. The amount of debt carried on the average Napoleonic regimental mess from mess bills alone is absurd.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:18
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The amount of debt carried on the average Napoleonic regimental mess from mess bills alone is absurd. Debt is fashionable old boy. Imagine how pissy said tailors got when a lot of junior officers got themselves killed on credit. I wonder then if they pushed the debt onto some poor living member of their family?
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Oct 5, 2016 20:21
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SeanBeansShako posted:Debt is fashionable old boy. They assuredly did.
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Oct 5, 2016 20:38
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:They assuredly did. "Silk inlaid silver laced dancing pumps? what the gently caress!?"
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Oct 5, 2016 20:53
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SeanBeansShako posted:"Silk inlaid silver laced dancing pumps? what the gently caress!?" Invoice for one (1) Embroidered codpiece, velvet
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Oct 5, 2016 21:41
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HEY GAL posted:there are other things that running out of money gets you, which i hadn't expected as a modern American: when the Mansfeld Regiment hit Frankfurt am Main the officers didn't have the money to travel back to eastern Germany in a manner befitting their rank (escorts, trains of horses, etc), so they just stayed there with the remaining/surviving Mansfelders, racking up debts and complaining a bunch. It's possible they could have left if they had wanted to travel alone, etc., but every one of them would rather have stayed there than do something out of keeping with their station. What makes you think modern Americans are any different? You can't swing a stick in any given suburb without hitting half a dozen people who own/lease brand new cars of the current model year which they park out front of way more house than they can afford. Spending money you don't have to convince the world around you that you're part of the rising upper middle class elite is just about the most American thing you can do. We're ALL about racking up debt in order to make the proper performances of a class that we think we're part of.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:52
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As a member of the British middle class I can assure you I have no debts at all except crippling university debt paying for three degrees I now have no use for none whatsoever no siree. At this point I would prefer debts for drinking claret and dressing as befits a gentleman in the 19th century, those cherrypicker pants would look much better than my raggedy "work appropriate" chinos.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:57
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xthetenth posted:I am but I'd similarly love to know the list that was presented at the time, IE whether one or more weren't considered a big deal at that point/for that design. Also I'll probably have to pick that up at some point, I'm currently working on getting my first really well stocked section going on carriers. I'll work on transcribing and/or paraphrasing the aforementioned Chapter 3 section later tonight for you. I have that book and Nelson to Vanguard and found them both to be very interesting, would definitely recommend. He of course writes from a practicing naval architect's perspective and also draws heavily from the personal papers of contemporary DNCs, so there's a nice mix of formal and informal opinions.
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Oct 6, 2016 01:02
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And here it is:quote:Submerged torpedo tubes were another potentially hazardous feature of battleships of most navies. The introduction of the heater torpedo had greatly increased the speed or range of torpedoes whilst the earlier introduction of gyros had much improved their accuracy. It was thought, wrongly, that these improvements had overcome the problems which had made torpedoes so ineffective in the Russo-Japanese War. The British 21in Mk II*** had the following characteristics: Unfortunately, it is unclear from the notes whether this represents the author’s own views or those of the then-DNC (likely both, in my opinion). While the arguments of the staff are not made explicit here, the natural inference seems to be that they believed the handful of hits obtained justified the risks incurred.
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Oct 6, 2016 02:39
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Can anyone do any pieces on utility/history of slingshots in ancient combat? It's something I've always been curious about, but whenever I remember to look it up, the stuff I find is unsatisfactory. Whatever era/military info you can share would be wonderful.
Plan Z fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 10:36
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 Presented without further comment.
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Oct 6, 2016 11:35
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Oct 6, 2016 12:00
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