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*slowly sucks air through teeth* Oh please let there be an Episode XIII title announcement or script leak soon.
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Oct 6, 2016 04:40
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Maxwell Lord posted:It's the same as in Night of the Living Dead. Harry (I think that's the rear end in a top hat's name) is right that the cellar is the safest place, but it doesn't matter that he's right because he's too much of an rear end in a top hat to present his case. And the same happens in Dawn of the Dead- the government spokespeople are right as to what's happening and how the problem needs to be contained, but nobody trusts them because their men are killing innocent people in "rescue" operations. Actually, the Jedi are right on factual terms, the problem is that Anakin doesn't listen. If he had abided by their edicts instead of lying to everybody and thinking he knew better, everything would have been fine. With a caveat - the Jedi Council shouldn't have gone against their own better judgment and trained him fpr no reason despite predicting grave danger.
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Oct 6, 2016 04:40
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Vegg220 posted:This is pathetic grasping. You should be ashamed of yourself. Well? Show your work. Where's the problem? Are you just giving up again?
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Oct 6, 2016 04:42
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Gonz posted:*slowly sucks air through teeth* This is another thing I'd like to note. You're all pussies with no ability to healthily tolerate dissent. The whining that I am being a bad sport by being negative about a film you like and interrupting your pathetic Robo-Racism play by post slashfic by unconscionably refusing to accept its presuppositions is absolutely pathetic
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Oct 6, 2016 04:44
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m-mods?? tezzor is beating me up halp
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Oct 6, 2016 04:47
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Ferrinus posted:Well? Show your work. Where's the problem? Are you just giving up again? The problem is that you think it is more plausible that everyone involved in this film was lying to make the film look worse for no reason rather than turn your dorko egomania down 1% and accept the propostion that your current interpretation of the events of these films isn't objectively true. You see the film and say the character of Dumbass Yoda didn't help Dumbass Teen Vader. I note that Lucas says otherwise. You assume that you must be right - therefore Lucas is lying. If you want to begin from the subjective supposition that your interpretation is just as valid as the author's, fine, I don't care, that's your right. But you are arguing that this was the intent, and if we're arguing about intent I take his statements about his intent over your unsubstantiated claims that he is lying to trick me to seem stupider.
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Oct 6, 2016 04:54
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Gonz posted:*slowly sucks air through teeth* My favorite is definitely Episode 9, but Episode 12 really ended that trilogy in a solid place and made me enjoy 10 and 11 a lot more than I did originally.
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Oct 6, 2016 04:56
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Barudak posted:My favorite is definitely Episode 9, but Episode 12 really ended that trilogy in a solid place and made me enjoy 10 and 11 a lot more than I did originally. I agree with the overall gist of this. Episode XII was really the perfect icing on the cake, even though people had qualms with it being broken into three different films.
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Oct 6, 2016 04:58
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I mean, uhhhhh....gently caress you, Barudak, you poo poo for brains! *tosses acid in your face and then pushes you down*
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Oct 6, 2016 05:00
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Vegg220 posted:The problem is that you think it is more plausible that everyone involved in this film was lying to make the film look worse for no reason rather than turn your dorko egomania down 1% and accept the propostion that your current interpretation of the events of these films isn't objectively true. You see the film and say the character of Dumbass Yoda didn't help Dumbass Teen Vader. I note that Lucas says otherwise. You assume that you must be right - therefore Lucas is lying. If you want to begin from the subjective supposition that your interpretation is just as valid as the author's, fine, I don't care, that's your right. But you are arguing that this was the intent, and if we're arguing about intent I take his statements about his intent over your unsubstantiated claims that he is lying to trick me to seem stupider. No, YOU say that. YOU say that dumbass Yoda failed to help dorko Vader. You cite both the acting in the scene and the way the narrative unfolds later. I didn't even remember that scene until you mentioned it today. And, god dammit, you're right. Yoda OBVIOUSLY used precisely the wrong approach with Anakin, even though his philosophy of calm detachment would in pribciple have headed off the problem. Yoda was OBVIOUSLY unsuccessful, because later in the movie Anakin becomes Darth Vader. This poo poo's so straightforward a child could pick up on it. So, anyone who says Yoda's advice was effective is wrong. Or maybe they've just been misquoted or misinterpreted, it's not like you quoted the commentary for us word for word.
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Oct 6, 2016 05:02
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Vegg220 posted:Yoda's counsel would have been helpful, if Anakin had listened. He was right on points; telling him to give up connection to people seems weird and wrong to you because you are a normal human being I'm interested in hearing this, because this conversation, no fooling, is one my absolute favorite scenes in the prequels. Both Anakin and Yoda are entirely in the right from their perspective and their upbringing, but there's a fundamental divide that they just can't bridge that leads directly to the tragedy later.
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Oct 6, 2016 05:11
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Gonz posted:I mean, uhhhhh....gently caress you, Barudak, you poo poo for brains! Noooo, this is episode 10 all over again, but happening to me.
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Oct 6, 2016 05:46
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Barudak posted:Noooo, this is episode 10 all over again, but happening to me. Powers Boothe emerging from that swamp was powerful imagery.
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Oct 6, 2016 06:43
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Apollodorus posted:The biggest sin the prequels commit is to make the Jedi lovely. They become the good guys because they are on Team Good, not because of anything they actually do. This is a classic example of telling rather than showing, and a sign of bad writing and bad directing. In Jedi it is revealed that Obi Wan lied about Leia. In the prequels it is revealed that Obi Wan lied about the Jedi.
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Oct 6, 2016 06:54
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Gonz posted:*slowly sucks air through teeth* I think it's a joke but if Disney really did want to soft reboot Star Wars they really should have started at episode 9 or 12.
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Oct 6, 2016 07:03
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Vegg220 posted:Actually, the Jedi are right on factual terms, the problem is that Anakin doesn't listen. If he had abided by their edicts instead of lying to everybody and thinking he knew better, everything would have been fine. With a caveat - the Jedi Council shouldn't have gone against their own better judgment and trained him fpr no reason despite predicting grave danger. Well, that's the thing. Being right isn't enough. You have to get people to listen to you. The Jedi are failing to communicate. If the Jedi didn't have the prohibition on relationships, Anakin and Padme could have openly been a couple, and Anakin might have said "My wife's pregnant and I'm having visions that make me think something will go wrong" and Yoda's response to that might be different. The Jedi's strict dogma presents a barrier to communication.
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Oct 6, 2016 07:09
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Apollodorus posted:The biggest sin the prequels commit is to make the Jedi lovely. They become the good guys because they are on Team Good, not because of anything they actually do. This is a classic example of telling rather than showing, and a sign of bad writing and bad directing. how is this wrong? the jedi were guardians of peace and justice then poo poo went sideways cause that peace and justice was built on a shaky foundation and the jedi were so in love with the result of that peace and justice that it blinded them, their attachment to the current state of the republic is what caused them to fall. They were good people but they made mistakes. why do you want some static shining good guy instead of complex and interesting characters?
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Oct 6, 2016 07:47
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Vegg220 posted:Lucas didn't lie about the contents of his films. There is a contradiction between the commentary and the movie. This contradiction is not because Lucas and everyone else were directed to lie to trick us. It was because he had no loving idea what he was doing. What a coincidence, Lucas also said droids may appear alive but they're just programs.
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Oct 6, 2016 09:42
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Why do people care what George Lucas says or thinks? Just enjoy his movies.
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Oct 6, 2016 10:10
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Do any of the Star Wars movie have extended versions? Like LorT?
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Oct 6, 2016 11:22
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Earlier in this thread Tezzor offered to repost his summary on how the commentary tracks for the prequels disprove that Lucas intentionally included certain themes in the films. I invited him to do so, and he reposted the summary here. (Things get a little confused because Tezzor seems to the use "theme" and "subtext" interchangeably.) I want to address a few assumptions that Tezzor makes in his summary. If you don't give a poo poo, go ahead and skip this post. Bear in mind that this is specifically in regards to Lucas's commentary and how it reflects on his intentions. quote:George says at least a dozen times that the Jedi in these films are "the good guys," "heroes," or "the guardians of peace and justice," in many contexts. He also repeatedly and in no uncertain terms calls Palpatine, the Trade Federation and Separatists and their leaders "bad guys," "evil," and so on. This is offered as evidence for a two related points. The first is that Lucas did not intend for the Jedi to be "bad guys," with which I agree. The second is that, because Lucas did not intend for the Jedi to be "bad guy's," he was uninvolved or even unaware of any themes or subtexts that come as a result of the Jedi's moral failings. There are two assumptions at play here. The first is that it's impossible for anyone with moral failings to be good (or, at least, that it's impossible to be good with those particular moral failings). The second is that Lucas agrees with the previous assumption. Granted, if you assume that Lucas believes that no one (or no institution) with moral failings can be good, then clearly something is very strange with the prequels. But there's no reason to believe that. He could easily believe that the Jedi are good while simultaneously being aware of their failings--he could even incorporate that into the plot. You make similar assumptions further on. You take something Lucas says, and then view his statement through the viewpoint you assume he has. Another example: "Prequel apologists often say that the fate of the battle droids is secret tragedy, and not comic relief. The first time we see them, George says it's important to establish that the battle droids are goofy and useless." Lucas says that the battle droids are "goofy and useless," and you assume that means that either their plight is not tragic or that their plight is tragic in defiance of Lucas's intentions. But Lucas can intend for the droids to be goofy and useless and also tragic (secretly or otherwise). There's no contradiction. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 11:43
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Elfgames posted:
Luke got to be both, with the exception of the static part. It was awesome seeing him evolve from whiny dirtfarmer ready to join the Empire just to get away from all the sand, to ending the cycle of violence and embracing the ultimate good by forgiving Darth Vader. There's no one like that to really root for in the prequel movies, but at least you get to see everyone's redeeming qualities a lot more in the Clone Wars. Also, uh...possibly relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aABEQe_qhDA Filthy Casual fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 14:42
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I try not to think along these lines because it's kind of ridiculous but good grief... why would anyone think the Falcon could destroy the Enterprise? Enterprise is a capital ship, and the Falcon is a hot-rod, upgunned freighter. It would be like a brig against a first-rate ship of the line, or a PT boat against a cruiser.
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Oct 6, 2016 16:09
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I know, the whole auto-lock phaser beam effectively ends the conversation. Now, the Falcon vs. the Defiant might be some interesting poo poo.
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Oct 6, 2016 16:15
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Enterprise is sentient
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Oct 6, 2016 16:17
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MrMojok posted:I try not to think along these lines because it's kind of ridiculous but good grief... why would anyone think the Falcon could destroy the Enterprise? Enterprise is a capital ship, and the Falcon is a hot-rod, upgunned freighter. It would be like a brig against a first-rate ship of the line, or a PT boat against a cruiser. From what I remember from like 15+ years ago when I was a teenager who gave a gently caress about this stuff, it's because the numbers from tech manuals that signify firepower are orders of magnitude stronger in the Star Wars universe than in Trek http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html Like, they have a matchup between Slave-1 and the Enterprise D 
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Oct 6, 2016 16:25
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The enterprise wins. I just wrote it so now it is true.
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Oct 6, 2016 16:51
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They wouldn't fight because they would put Han Solo up on their big skype screen and be charmed by his scoundrel-y ways.
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Oct 6, 2016 16:54
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Are people who are quiet in Star Wars people? Or are you only a person if you talk/express?
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Oct 6, 2016 17:01
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rear end Catchcum posted:Are people who are quiet in Star Wars people? Or are you only a person if you talk/express? It is necessary to view the film and think about what you are seeing in order to answer this question. But Lobot, Lando's second-in-command, is certainly a person.
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Oct 6, 2016 17:11
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Bingo bill you are always the kindest.
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Oct 6, 2016 17:14
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rear end Catchcum posted:Are people who are quiet in Star Wars people? Or are you only a person if you talk/express? They are actually merely blobs of projected color with accompanying sounds .
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Oct 6, 2016 17:18
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I just can't believe we will never truly know if droids are people it pisses me off.
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Oct 6, 2016 17:19
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rear end Catchcum posted:I just can't believe we will never truly know if droids are people it pisses me off. You will never truly know if you are a person.
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Oct 6, 2016 17:29
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Oh believe me, I'm pissed off about that, too.
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Oct 6, 2016 17:30
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They're characters in a work of fiction. Their personhood as such is in the eye of the audience member, as art only has meaning after it has been communicated. It is, I claim, much more consistent, informative, meaningful, and accurate to read the story as asserting personhood.
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Oct 6, 2016 17:38
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euphronius posted:They are actually merely blobs of projected color with accompanying sounds . The real question is if color blobs can be sentient.
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Oct 6, 2016 17:39
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Bongo Bill posted:They're characters in a work of fiction. Their personhood as such is in the eye of the audience member, as art only has meaning after it has been communicated. I, too, like to fabricate ideas and apply them to boring movies to make them more interesting. Like, I view Anakin as a robot from AOTC, that's why there's such a jump in age. Young Anakin (True Anakin as I call him in my head) died between the two movies and so they salvaged as much as they could and made him into a robot. I find it much more engaging when he loses limbs or such because, it's like, "jesus, how did they do such a good job on that robot?"
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Oct 6, 2016 18:15
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Waffles Inc. posted:From what I remember from like 15+ years ago when I was a teenager who gave a gently caress about this stuff, it's because the numbers from tech manuals that signify firepower are orders of magnitude stronger in the Star Wars universe than in Trek With numbers like that, why build a Death Star? You could cook an entire planet with the firepower of about a hundred Slave 1s.
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Oct 6, 2016 18:22
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Queering Wheel posted:With numbers like that, why build a Death Star? You could cook an entire planet with the firepower of about a hundred Slave 1s. The planets are proportionally resistant to ship-mounted weaponry in Star Wars. As are people.
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Oct 6, 2016 18:23
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