Crawl 0.18: Purple Reign

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl 0.18: Purple Reign

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

Speleothing posted:

Obviously we need a high level Pois/Charm combo spell.

Snake Charmer - Pulls a snake out of the target's mouth, causing AC-ignoring damage and heavy internal poisoning, plus now you get a snake ally! (Though I guess that'd be poison charms summon)

# ? Oct 5, 2016 17:23

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 04:43

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Ring of flames is actually pretty nice if you can cast it but its in an awkward area where all the characters I'd want to use it on never have the skill to cast it. Fire magic isn't very good for hybrids and they are the ones that want the spell.

# ? Oct 5, 2016 18:17

Mortimer Knag: Nov 23, 2007

Swap haste and harm

# ? Oct 5, 2016 18:21

borf: Apr 5, 2006

Found this on D9:
+12 spear of Cidi {speed, rElec rPois MR+}
I know spears suck, but this is drat fine for early-midgame right? Even though I'm a gargoyle so two of those brands are useless...

# ? Oct 5, 2016 23:17

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Yes. +12 is really big, you can use that for a bit

# ? Oct 5, 2016 23:23

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

I think the rule of thumb for one-handed weapon is that each point of enhancement counts as half a point of base damage. Brands are harder to compare though

# ? Oct 5, 2016 23:29

Konstantin: Jun 20, 2005; And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

If you have a reliable source of hasting, that spear could be insane even in lategame. Weapon speed becomes better as you get more of it, and the +12 is really good when you hit 5 times in a turn, which you will when hasted. I'd consider going with Trog if you haven't picked a God yet, I've won a couple of KoBe using insanely fast weapons.

# ? Oct 6, 2016 00:00

borf: Apr 5, 2006

In typical crawl fashion, that spear is now lost to the morgue.

# ? Oct 6, 2016 00:33

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

Am I supposed to do a retaliatory headbutt when someone attacks my demonic guardian? Am I supposed to be able to headbutt 2 squares away, past the guardian?

# ? Oct 6, 2016 06:08

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Internet Kraken posted:

Ring of flames is actually pretty nice if you can cast it but its in an awkward area where all the characters I'd want to use it on never have the skill to cast it. Fire magic isn't very good for hybrids and they are the ones that want the spell.

I pretty much agree with this. It's not actually a bad spell, but it's rarely worth the investment except on a very few characters. It should definitely be always on, rC-- is enough of a downside, and it could probably be moved to level 6.

Konstantin posted:

Might as well just get rid of Charms entirely. Make Infusion a Conjuration spell, adjust the flavor of Song of Slaying and put it into Necromancy, and make everything else a single school spell.

It goes without saying that there's design space for spells that give you a significant but situational tactical advantage that aren't a source of offensive or defensive power in themselves. And I think it's reasonable and also interesting to have a spell school that solely and specifically offers the strategic choice between a bigger toolbox and overall higher numbers. If the game lacked charms, it would lack a potentially very satisfying element of its design. This isn't a defense of haste or ozo's armor (I agree that the change to that was not very successful), just a defense of charms as a whole.

Here's my (probably bad) suggestion for a level 6 charms/translocations spell: Hammer of Golubria. This spell infuses your melee attacks with a knockback effect for its duration. The strength of the effect is dependent on spell power (send normal sized enemies flying at very high power) and the probability of its triggering is dependent on weapon skill (Very low chance up to 10 skill, scaling to 100% chance at 20 skill). The duration is very short, maybe 4-5 turns. The idea is that the spell is good for melee hybrids with some ranged attacks, for escape, or for a damage boost if you can pin an enemy up against a wall or are fighting in a corridor.

# ? Oct 6, 2016 09:28

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

More permanent buffs, remove ponderous from Oz and make the AC drop every time you get hit (all/more of it with fire damage) and recover out of combat. Like an AC positive version of corrosion. The 3 mana and turn of casting is rarely relevant to Oz, I don't think that's a big loss.
Incidentally if more permanent buffs do come in (and they should) they should probably be purged when you forget the relevant spell. Right now it's just charged fireball and R/Dmissiles so it's pretty harmless.

Also this should exist:
Explosive Infusion Level 6 - Fire/Charms Your projectile spells (dart/bolts/fireball/etc) cast inner fire at their target, checking mr using the averaged spell power of the projectile and this spell. Vehumet suppports use of this spell.

Basically more inner fire is good, more enemies should explode. Aura of immolation for level 8.

e: I guess the argument against permanent buffs is that they are mindless choices (always yes) which is pretty reasonable. Ozs light armour restriction is noteworthy though. It could be level 5 with semi-permanence and similar power, which would make it a more significant investment choice.
In that thinking though the only thing saving repel missiles is how thin the air starter book is (add air strike!)

Darox fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Oct 6, 2016

# ? Oct 6, 2016 14:07

Fhqwhgads: Jul 18, 2003; I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID

taqueso posted:

Am I supposed to do a retaliatory headbutt when someone attacks my demonic guardian? Am I supposed to be able to headbutt 2 squares away, past the guardian?

New demonspawn head mutation turning you into a snapping turtle? :v:

# ? Oct 6, 2016 14:34

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

Fhqwhgads posted:

New demonspawn head mutation turning you into a snapping turtle?

I asked in irc, apparently the retaliation was copy pasted from minotaur and it was triggering on any monster attack.

# ? Oct 6, 2016 15:12

Crampy Grampaw: Jan 29, 2009

Darox posted:

More permanent buffs, remove ponderous from Oz and make the AC drop every time you get hit (all/more of it with fire damage) and recover out of combat. Like an AC positive version of corrosion. The 3 mana and turn of casting is rarely relevant to Oz, I don't think that's a big loss.
Incidentally if more permanent buffs do come in (and they should) they should probably be purged when you forget the relevant spell. Right now it's just charged fireball and R/Dmissiles so it's pretty harmless.

Also this should exist:
Explosive Infusion Level 6 - Fire/Charms Your projectile spells (dart/bolts/fireball/etc) cast inner fire at their target, checking mr using the averaged spell power of the projectile and this spell. Vehumet suppports use of this spell.

Basically more inner fire is good, more enemies should explode. Aura of immolation for level 8.

e: I guess the argument against permanent buffs is that they are mindless choices (always yes) which is pretty reasonable. Ozs light armour restriction is noteworthy though. It could be level 5 with semi-permanence and similar power, which would make it a more significant investment choice.
In that thinking though the only thing saving repel missiles is how thin the air starter book is (add air strike!)

I was thinking something similar actually. Why not make buff spells always on and always have x mp deducted until they're turned off? Or for haste, aggressive penalties like per turn mp, hunger, or drain? I agree that the charms become no brainers after you get them running consistently, but they're still fun and interesting. If balance has been the concern as it seems in the last few years of crawl iterations, there are many ways to keep good spells (e.g. bring back fulsome distillation.)

Also yes to more inner fire.

# ? Oct 6, 2016 15:16

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Crampy Grampaw posted:

I was thinking something similar actually. Why not make buff spells always on and always have x mp deducted until they're turned off? Or for haste, aggressive penalties like per turn mp, hunger, or drain? I agree that the charms become no brainers after you get them running consistently, but they're still fun and interesting. If balance has been the concern as it seems in the last few years of crawl iterations, there are many ways to keep good spells (e.g. bring back fulsome distillation.)

Also yes to more inner fire.

Every permutation possible has been discussed already, this one...might work? The thing is, it basically is giving permanent buffs to characters who don't use their mana for no downside other than (relatively low) skill investment. Granted, it's kinda doing that already, but I think people would rather eliminate that than acknowledge it and implement ease-of-use knobs in the meantime.

Making them stronger and really short in duration is another proposal.

# ? Oct 6, 2016 15:49

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

Crampy Grampaw posted:

I was thinking something similar actually. Why not make buff spells always on and always have x mp deducted until they're turned off?

Did some spells work that way in the past? Maybe I am thinking of a different RL. Anyway, I like the idea assuming the cost/spell level/effect numbers are changed to balance it out.

taqueso fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Oct 6, 2016

# ? Oct 6, 2016 16:18

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

taqueso posted:

Did some spells work that way in the past? Maybe I am thinking of a different RL.

Infusion kind of did, but only if you made a hit with your weapon and it eventually faded on its own. Searing Blast will continually drain MP until it finishes ~4 turns so long as you don't move.
TOME 4 does do the whole "max chopped off while always on" buffs on some of its spells.

# ? Oct 6, 2016 16:23

Brannock: Feb 9, 2006; by exmarx; Fallen Rib

Heithinn Grasida posted:

Here's my (probably bad) suggestion for a level 6 charms/translocations spell: Hammer of Golubria. This spell infuses your melee attacks with a knockback effect for its duration. The strength of the effect is dependent on spell power (send normal sized enemies flying at very high power) and the probability of its triggering is dependent on weapon skill (Very low chance up to 10 skill, scaling to 100% chance at 20 skill). The duration is very short, maybe 4-5 turns. The idea is that the spell is good for melee hybrids with some ranged attacks, for escape, or for a damage boost if you can pin an enemy up against a wall or are fighting in a corridor.

We already have Force Lance at level 4.

Part of the problem with coming up with new Charms is that a lot of interesting effects probably are better implemented as actual spells, instead of conditionally-triggering buffs. Disjunction is, IMO, a good example of a short-duration, tactically conditional buff. (But of course it's pure Tloc, not Charms :v:

)

# ? Oct 6, 2016 18:52

borf: Apr 5, 2006

What's up with rCorrosion? I have it, but entropy weavers just tear right through it. Attempted my first zigg, and had to bail on floor 8 with -28 corrosion. Still happy about making progress either way after playing a game for years.

# ? Oct 6, 2016 23:12

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

borf posted:

What's up with rCorrosion? I have it, but entropy weavers just tear right through it. Attempted my first zigg, and had to bail on floor 8 with -28 corrosion. Still happy about making progress either way after playing a game for years.

I think rCorr is a 50% chance to negate any corrosion that hits you, so bad RNG can still wreck you.

FR: rCorr instead halves the malus from corrosion to -2 instead of -4. (for corrosion gained while the ring was on, so it doesn't apply retroactively)

# ? Oct 6, 2016 23:21

borf: Apr 5, 2006

Makes sense then, thanks. Probably not likely to see 6 weavers on screen outside of a zigg anyway.

# ? Oct 6, 2016 23:27

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Its little red eyes gleam with hunger for living flesh.

borf posted:

Makes sense then, thanks. Probably not likely to see 6 weavers on screen outside of a zigg anyway.

Entropy weavers are complete assholes and you should never be in vision of them unless you can be murdering them. Good time to read a bunch of fog scrolls or bust out a powerful AOE if you have one.

# ? Oct 6, 2016 23:51

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

borf posted:

What's up with rCorrosion? I have it, but entropy weavers just tear right through it. Attempted my first zigg, and had to bail on floor 8 with -28 corrosion. Still happy about making progress either way after playing a game for years.

Hot tip for Zigs: Spider floors effectively put an invisibility requirement on zigging. If you can't immediately murder every ghost moth or weaver as they enter the screen (and you usually can't without firestorm and a lot of mana regen) then you will be rapidly drained and corroded into a useless blob who can only do damage with evokables and makhleb invocations. Neither of them can see invisible so it can get you out of trouble, carry potions since they don't need mana.

# ? Oct 7, 2016 00:52

borf: Apr 5, 2006

Both great tips. I had fog and invis available at the time and used neither one!

# ? Oct 7, 2016 01:33

LogicNinja: Jan 21, 2011; ...the blur blurs blurringly across the blurred blur in a blur of blurring blurriness that blurred...

This is a cute vault. (The merfolk avatar rose out of the water when I went to claim the sword.)

# ? Oct 7, 2016 01:48

Social Studies 3rd Period: Oct 31, 2012; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Internet Kraken posted:

Its little red eyes gleam with hunger for living flesh.

Entropy weavers are complete assholes and you should never be in vision of them unless you can be murdering them. Good time to read a bunch of fog scrolls or bust out a powerful AOE if you have one.

i am really enjoying the series of pictures, they're pretty cool. keep doing more!

# ? Oct 7, 2016 01:58

LogicNinja: Jan 21, 2011; ...the blur blurs blurringly across the blurred blur in a blur of blurring blurriness that blurred...

I'm having a harder time with Basajaun conjurers than with DECj, and I have no idea why. I don't think I have significantly less MP, and while the defenses suck, they have like 40% more HP which should more than make up for it. Maybe the slightly worse aptitudes mean everything comes online later?

# ? Oct 7, 2016 03:33

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

What the hell is a Basajuan?

# ? Oct 7, 2016 03:40

heard u like girls: Mar 25, 2013

Internet Kraken posted:

Its little red eyes gleam with hunger for living flesh.

# ? Oct 7, 2016 03:40

Carados: Jan 28, 2009; We're a couple, when our bodies double.

Internet Kraken posted:

What the hell is a Basajuan?

New trunk race. Large spell casters, basically. No real gimmicks.

# ? Oct 7, 2016 03:42

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

protip for zot 5: worship Xom whole game to get incredible mutation set, then have him randomly teleport you into the orb room 2 steps away from the orb with a permanent tele trap right next to it which teleports you near the upstairs

Internet Kraken posted:

What the hell is a Basajuan?

playable here in one of the experimental branches. They're like ogres but worse at melee, considerably better at magic(and with more MP than normal), and are somewhat stealthy.

# ? Oct 7, 2016 03:45

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

IronicDongz posted:

protip for zot 5: worship Xom whole game to get incredible mutation set, then have him randomly teleport you into the orb room 2 steps away from the orb with a permanent tele trap right next to it which teleports you near the upstairs
playable here in one of the experimental branches. They're like ogres but worse at melee, considerably better at magic(and with more MP than normal), and are somewhat stealthy.

And, mythologically, they're Basque woods-dwelling furry giants. Like Bigfoot, I guess, except Basque, and with more stone circles.

# ? Oct 7, 2016 03:51

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

*throws a bunch of large rocks in a circle with ." stonehenge bitch

# ? Oct 7, 2016 04:08

borf: Apr 5, 2006

Finally got em all! Easy-mode MiFi oka -> TSO but I don't care, that morgue says 15 runes.

code:

15980508 Clubfoot the Conqueror (level 27, 271/271 (273) HPs)
             Began as a Minotaur Fighter on Oct 5, 2016.
             Was the Champion of the Shining One.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on Oct 6, 2016!
             
             The game lasted 10:22:17 (98357 turns).

Clubfoot the Conqueror (Minotaur Fighter)          Turns: 98357, Time: 10:22:18

HP:   271/271 (273) AC: 50    Str: 33      XL:     27
MP:   44/44         EV: 23    Int:  8 (9)  God:    the Shining One [******]
Gold: 11495         SH: 30    Dex: 15      Spells: 4 memorised, 59 levels left

rFire  + + +      SeeInvis +    X - +9 trishula (holy)
rCold  + + +      Gourm    .    N - +9 gold dragon armour
rNeg   + + +      Faith    .    I - +1 large shield {reflect}
rPois  +          Spirit   .    g - +1 hat {MR+}
rElec  +          Dismiss  .    D - +1 cloak of the Sky {+Fly rF+}
rCorr  +          Reflect  +    H - +2 pair of gloves "Hiborgh" {-Cast MR+++ Int-2 SInv}
SustAt .          Harm     .    P - +4 pair of boots "Trusted Companion" {rCorr Str+4 Int+2}
MR     +++++      NoCast   +    w - amulet of Ititotin {rElec rC++ Regen+ Dex+2}
Stlth  ..........               T - ring of Uqiejimm {rElec rF+ Dex-2 Slay+5 Stlth+}
                                L - ring "Exaeg" {rPois MR+ Int+4}

You visited 18 branches of the dungeon, and saw 93 of its levels.
You visited Pandemonium 1 time, and saw 27 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 5 times.
You visited 1 ziggurat, and saw 8 of its levels.
You also visited: Labyrinth, Sewer, Ossuary, Ice Cave and Wizlab.

# ? Oct 7, 2016 04:37

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Carados posted:

New trunk race. Large spell casters, basically. No real gimmicks.

Wow I can't believe the devs put ogre mages back in the game!

# ? Oct 7, 2016 08:33

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

people were talking about removing ogres if those spellcaster giants get added and I Just Can't Support That Idea

# ? Oct 7, 2016 08:57

Octo1: May 7, 2009

Internet Kraken posted:

Wow I can't believe the devs put ogre mages back in the game!

But when are they bringing back sludge elves??

# ? Oct 7, 2016 09:13

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

Johnny Joestar posted:

people were talking about removing ogres if those spellcaster giants get added and I Just Can't Support That Idea

Basajaun-coming just doesn't have the same ring to it...

# ? Oct 7, 2016 11:05

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

I am going mad over this ring, to be fair

# ? Oct 7, 2016 12:01

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 04:43

Austen Tassletine: Nov 5, 2010

How about keep haste, but make you unable to gain xp whilst using it? That could create an actual significant trade off when deciding to use it in difficult but rewarding (in terms of xp) fights.

# ? Oct 7, 2016 18:28

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