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Equeen posted:It's a shame that wokeness doesn't get rid of obnoxiousness. Would it surprise you to know that forums user rear end Catchcum is, in fact, being dishonest?
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Oct 6, 2016 20:46
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rear end Catchcum posted:This thread got me woke for real being woke isn't something that happens to you, it is something that you must strive for. it is a state of being you must wish yourself to be.
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Oct 6, 2016 20:47
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I was actually being sincere I feel like droids are people now Jesus even when people agree with you about your lovely movies you want to argue. #Tezz4Prez Ass Catchcum fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 20:49
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rear end Catchcum posted:I was actually being sincere I feel like droids are people now Jesus even when people agree with you about you lovely movies you want to argue. Shouldn't have used upper case or punctuation if ur bein totes sincere on the 'net, duder pls post sum facebook memes next
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Oct 6, 2016 20:51
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Perhaps I'll go crawl inside a hole and die, ruddigger.
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Oct 6, 2016 21:10
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Filthy Casual posted:Wow, damned if Christensen wasn't spot on in imitating that. I can definitely say I'm equally repulsed by both performances. can i ask why, in all sincerity? it's regularly celebrated as a great performance, so i can't help but wonder if the repulsion reaction to it is a repulsion to emotionally stunted and vulnerable characters and people i remember way way back in the thread when TFA first came out there was a discussion about how a lot of people judge the quality of a film by how "fuckable" its characters are. hayden plays anakin as he is in the text: impulsive, emotionally damaged, heart-on-sleeve, etc--all traits that he plays with incredible effectiveness, but all traits that make people unattractive to others
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Oct 6, 2016 21:43
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Red posted:Are there? I've read conflicting stuff about R5-D4, and I think I understand IG-88 to be part of a weird hivemind thing. I know this is the internet but I have a hard time believing someone would see a character like EV-9D9 and find it simpler to believe that she was, for some inexplicable reason, programmed to torture other droids, rather than that she is merely a cruel person.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:09
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:I know this is the internet but I have a hard time believing someone would see a character like EV-9D9 and find it simpler to believe that she was, for some inexplicable reason, programmed to torture other droids, rather than that she is merely a cruel person. I could absolutely believe Jabba programmed EV-9D9 to be a horrible torture droid.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:18
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Red posted:I could absolutely believe Jabba programmed EV-9D9 to be a horrible torture droid. To what end? Why torture droids if they're not people?
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Oct 6, 2016 22:20
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But what is the point of torturing droids!?!
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Oct 6, 2016 22:20
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Waffles Inc. posted:can i ask why, in all sincerity? it's regularly celebrated as a great performance, so i can't help but wonder if the repulsion reaction to it is a repulsion to emotionally stunted and vulnerable characters and people There's no question its an accurate portrayal of the feelings conveyed. I'm certainly not too far removed from having acted like that myself, and I've had people close to me act the same way. The thing is, with the people who acted that way around me, there is a wealth of emotional investment built up well before either they or I had the meltdown. There's an abundance of enjoyable interactions and positive qualities that I also see in that person, even when they're at their lowest. You only really get glimpses of that in Adult Anakin during the films. In TCW series there's a shitload of cool adventures of him being exactly the same wonderful person he is in TPM (but without having to deal with a 7 year old). In the films you get some good, but its pretty evenly interspersed with fascist leanings and tortured musings (the latter are understandable, but require an emotional investment the film character didn't have enough time/focus to get). So my issue with Anakin and the Prequels in general is that its subtext was too dense to be explored adequately in three films, and did not focus its attention on the story lines that brought out the best in the characters. Most of the time, we only got to see the worst. In TCW, we got both. The two TCW story arcs I think deserved much more incorporation were the ARC Troopers (5s/Echo/Hammer etc.) and Mandalore. The ARC arc to get us a boots on the ground perspective to drive the point of slave armies home further (which leads into Order 66), Mandalore to provide a more sympathetic look at Obi-Wan's character and the relationship between Anakin/Padme could have developed just as appropriately there as well, and provided a direct contrast in Anakin/Obi's decisions regarding love in the process.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:20
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rear end Catchcum posted:Perhaps I'll go crawl inside a hole and die, ruddigger. That hole never asked for you to force yourself into it you insincere prick.
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Oct 6, 2016 22:53
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Schwarzwald posted:Earlier in this thread Tezzor offered to repost his summary on how the commentary tracks for the prequels disprove that Lucas intentionally included certain themes in the films. I invited him to do so, and he reposted the summary here. (Things get a little confused because Tezzor seems to the use "theme" and "subtext" interchangeably.) It isn't just about those two points. Its about the dozens of them constantly without contradiction. It's also not just about what they said. It's also about what they didn't say. As I noted at the beginning of the post you're referencing, before, in fact, either of the statements you're referencing: nobody ever says anything to support your fanon about robo racism and clone slavery and how it makes the film smart. Not one goddamn thing, not ever. Not a bit of criticism of the Moral Failings of the Jedi beyond one statement that they were "arrogant" in 14 hours. At least Ferrinus has his insane theory for this total lack of any evidence of intent that the commentary is trying to trick us into thinking the movie is stupid and incompetent. What's your excuse? Vegg220 fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 23:13
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Vegg220 posted:It isn't just about those two points. Its about the dozens of them constantly without contradiction. It's also not just about what they said. It's also about what they didn't say. As I noted at the beginning of the post you're referencing, before, in fact, either of the statements you're referencing: nobody ever says anything to support your fanon about robo racism and clone slavery and how it makes the film smart. Not one goddamn thing, not ever. Not a bit of criticism of the Moral Failings of the Jedi beyond one statement that they were "arrogant" in 14 hours. At least Ferrinus has his insane theory that they're trying to trick us. What's your excuse? My post was in regards to Lucas's commentary and how it reflects on his intentions, and specifically how the commentary fails to prove that Lucas did not intend his films to feature certain themes. Robo racism and clone slavery aren't pertinent to my point.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:24
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Ferrinus posted:No, YOU say that. YOU say that dumbass Yoda failed to help dorko Vader. You cite both the acting in the scene and the way the narrative unfolds later. I didn't even remember that scene until you mentioned it today. Maybe his advice was helpful because without it Anakin would have become eviler faster. I have no idea about the internal logic of the claim. All I know it's what was said. I also enjoy that in a thread of dudes who are so obsessed with analyzing these films they can't be assed to listen to the commentary tracks. I'm not quoting an obscure book here. They're on the films you own already. Press a different button on the DVD menu if you think I'm lying.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:26
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Schwarzwald posted:My post was in regards to Lucas's commentary and how it reflects on his intentions, and specifically how the commentary fails to prove that Lucas did not intend his films to feature certain themes. If he intended these themes why does he never mention them and contradict your interpretation constantly? Is he lying?
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Oct 6, 2016 23:28
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Vegg220 posted:If he intended these themes why does he never mention them and contradict your interpretation constantly? Is he lying? He doesn't contradict that interpretation. That's the point of my post.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:34
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Maxwell Lord posted:Well, that's the thing. Being right isn't enough. You have to get people to listen to you. The Jedi are failing to communicate. The prohibition on relationships, is, in the moon logic of these films and their author, the right idea. The Jedi all abide by it and it isn't a new thing. Attachment to people is in fact a problem, according to Lucas, and if you think this is a weird theme for your story it might be because you're not a reclusive billionaire who has to fire people and was still salty about his divorce. If Anakin had followed the rules everything would have been fine. He also could have told the truth to Yoda and the worst that would have happened is that he would have been expelled to bang his hot rich wife forever and the Jedi would likely try to save Padme. But Lucas' explanation for this behavior actually makes sense for once: what he REALLY cares about is getting more power, and he was more into getting power than he was about saving her. Literally no one on the commentary tracks ever blames anyone other than Anakin even a little bit. I'm so sorry. Its not complex. Vegg220 fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 23:46
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Schwarzwald posted:He doesn't contradict that interpretation. That's the point of my post. Sure he does, dozens of times. But whatever. Why does he never support you?
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Oct 6, 2016 23:47
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Tezzor I'm shocked you agreed that being an antisocial recluse was good advice.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:47
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euphronius posted:Tezzor I'm shocked you agreed that being an antisocial recluse was good advice. Way to be an ableist fuckwad 
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Oct 6, 2016 23:53
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Tezzor, you're the Khalid Muhammad to my Al Sharpton. I may not agree with your strategy, but you're not the problem. Keep it up.
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Oct 6, 2016 23:59
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Serf posted:To what end? Why torture droids if they're not people? Why does Jabba feed his dancing girl to a monster under his throne?
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Oct 7, 2016 00:11
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Vegg220 posted:Sure he does, dozens of times. But whatever. Why does he never support you? I think you might be confusing me and my position with others in this thread, so let me try to be absolutely clear. You earlier said this: quote:"George Lucas did everything in the Star Wars prequels intentionally" is a deepity. On one level, this is true. Lucas did do everything in these films intentionally, in the sense that he did not throw toy letters on the ground to name characters or pull plot points out of a bingo roller or spin a wheel to determine camera position. This is true but trivial. The other meaning of this claim, the one that sounds profound and would be earth-shattering if true, is that Lucas did everything intentionally, in the sense that it was all part of his master plan to deconstruct heroism and the presuppositions of which that we are still to this day unpacking. Because remember, it's not just everything in the films that he did intentionally. His and others' statements on the commentary tracks that do nothing to support this theory and in fact undermine it at every turn? Lucas statements do not undermine or contradicts that he did, in fact, do everything deliberately, in the sense that the Droids and Clones were meant to come across as slaves, and that the Jedi were meant to come across as hypocritical, and so on. (But not necessarily in the sense that this is somehow "profound" and "earth-shattering.")
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Oct 7, 2016 00:38
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Red posted:Why does Jabba feed his dancing girl to a monster under his throne? He killed the dancer because she defied him, as a way of sending a message to his minions. There would be no reason to torture droids if you could just reprogram them to do what you want. The torture exists as a form of coercion more cruel than the dispassionate and utilitarian restraining bolt. Jabba could have just had the dancer shot, but he chose to make it into a spectacle. He does the same thing by having Artoo led through the torture chamber in another clear act of intimidation. If droids did not have free will, there would be no reason to torture them, and to use that torture as a way of cowing other droids into submission.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:43
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Why does everything get so sad at the robot circus in A.I.? That looks like a lotta fun!!!
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Oct 7, 2016 00:45
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Schwarzwald posted:Lucas statements do not undermine or contradicts that he did, in fact, do everything deliberately, in the sense that the Droids and Clones were meant to come across as slaves, and that the Jedi were meant to come across as hypocritical, and so on. (But not necessarily in the sense that this is somehow "profound" and "earth-shattering.")
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Oct 7, 2016 00:52
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The Jedi prohibition on relationships is never shown to be a good thing. Sure it's been in place for a long time but so were poll taxes, sodomy laws, indentured servitude, etc. Meanwhile in the course of the actual movies, Anakin and Padme being forced to keep a secret leads to Anakin not being able to tell anyone about his fears which leads to Palpatine (who already knows of course) taking him under his wing which leads to the fall of the Jedi.
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Oct 7, 2016 01:02
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Maxwell Lord posted:The Jedi prohibition on relationships is never shown to be a good thing. Sure it's been in place for a long time but so were poll taxes, sodomy laws, indentured servitude, etc. And then we see Luke in Return of the Jedi professing unconditional love for his father, who reciprocates, and destroys the Sith.
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Oct 7, 2016 01:04
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Vegg220 posted:Maybe his advice was helpful because without it Anakin would have become eviler faster. I have no idea about the internal logic of the claim. All I know it's what was said. I also enjoy that in a thread of dudes who are so obsessed with analyzing these films they can't be assed to listen to the commentary tracks. I'm not quoting an obscure book here. They're on the films you own already. Press a different button on the DVD menu if you think I'm lying. Well if his advice was helpful because without it Anakin would've become evil faster, there was no contradiction between the movie, what people in this thread say about the movie, and the Lucas commentary about the movie, and you have no case at all. Your entire plan of attack falls flat.
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Oct 7, 2016 01:06
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Serf posted:I'm always fascinated by the contortions people will do to ignore the fact that droids are people. But then again, denying the personhood of others just because they appear different is a time-honored tradition. Honestly, all of this is nothing compared to what people in TVIV's Battlestar Galactica threads used to get up to with regards to the Cylons in that show. Did you know you can't rape a robot?
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Oct 7, 2016 01:07
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Serf posted:He killed the dancer because she defied him, as a way of sending a message to his minions. There would be no reason to torture droids if you could just reprogram them to do what you want. The torture exists as a form of coercion more cruel than the dispassionate and utilitarian restraining bolt. Jabba could have just had the dancer shot, but he chose to make it into a spectacle. He does the same thing by having Artoo led through the torture chamber in another clear act of intimidation. If droids did not have free will, there would be no reason to torture them, and to use that torture as a way of cowing other droids into submission. How does she defy him i never got that part.
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Oct 7, 2016 01:10
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Uncle Wemus posted:How does she defy him i never got that part. She tries to pull away from him IIRC. Crion posted:Honestly, all of this is nothing compared to what people in TVIV's Battlestar Galactica threads used to get up to with regards to the Cylons in that show. Jesus Christ. BSG's message is even more explicit than Star Wars!
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Oct 7, 2016 01:11
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Crion posted:Honestly, all of this is nothing compared to what people in TVIV's Battlestar Galactica threads used to get up to with regards to the Cylons in that show. sounds like a challenge
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Oct 7, 2016 01:40
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For what it's worth, Lucas in the directors commentary says the Droid Control Ship in TPM is necessary because the neimoidians think that since they're greedy and power hungry, their droids would also be greedy and power hungry if they had free will (and would turn on and destroy them). So score one for battle droids being sentient I guess.
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Oct 7, 2016 02:06
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Schwarzwald posted:I think you might be confusing me and my position with others in this thread, so let me try to be absolutely clear. You earlier said this: The fact that Lucas did these specific things intentionally isn't even particularly interesting at this point, it's just that it's trivially and objectively true and the only reason it keeps being argued about is because certain people are just incapable of conceding that Lucas has ever had a mildly deep thought about anything. I just ran across this video which I think is probably the most explicit Lucas has ever gotten about the Jedi's hypocrisy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEET8IdkRnY&t=363s From the video: George Lucas posted:They sort of persuade people to do the right thing, but their job isn’t really to go around fighting people—yet they’re now used as generals and they’re fighting in a war and they’re doing something they really weren’t meant to. They’re being corrupted by this war, by being forced to be generals instead of peacemakers.
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Oct 7, 2016 03:37
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Serf posted:She tries to pull away from him IIRC. They didn't miss the message. They just didn't care.
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Oct 7, 2016 03:48
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Ferrinus posted:Well if his advice was helpful because without it Anakin would've become evil faster, there was no contradiction between the movie, what people in this thread say about the movie, and the Lucas commentary about the movie, and you have no case at all. Your entire plan of attack falls flat. Yoda's advice was good, it's just that it's not what Anakin wanted to hear, and there was really nothing anyone could have done for him at that point. The trap had already been set in motion years before and all the crucial mistakes had already been made by everyone. Episode III is just the logical conclusion of what happens in the previous two movies. The only people who could have altered the final outcome (perhaps) were Mace Windu and/or Anakin himself, and they both failed their tests in the Chancellor's office. Yoda's advice to Anakin was basic Buddhist philosophy. I don't think Buddhism is evil because it encourages people to let go of their attachments and accept death as a natural part of life. What should Yoda have told Anakin instead? "You should probably freak out and go on a mad quest for unlimited power in an attempt to eliminate death from the universe so you'll stop having bad dreams."
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Oct 7, 2016 03:50
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Crion posted:Honestly, all of this is nothing compared to what people in TVIV's Battlestar Galactica threads used to get up to with regards to the Cylons in that show. quote:They didn't miss the message. They just didn't care. I didn't see the BSG threads but I'm going to guess they went completely to poo poo at the end.
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Oct 7, 2016 04:46
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Serf posted:And then we see Luke in Return of the Jedi professing unconditional love for his father, who reciprocates, and destroys the Sith. it's more that luke is willing to let go of his hate for vader and the emperor. it's a mirror of the scene with anakin, mace, and palpatine.
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Oct 7, 2016 05:44
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