|
Dwarfs have hosed me as empire.
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 00:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 21:47 |
|
|
Could any cool dude link to the mod that lowers the requirements for building high tier units by 1? I think that would be cool to try out, but I have no idea what it's called. edit: oh looks like this mod may not exist and the talk was about using the pack file manager to drop the requirements SickZip posted:Use the AI and Building mod by Celtik and use pfm to drop building requirements a level. That's what I normally run and it's a huge improvement in terms of getting the AI to not be clinically retarded and getting the game beyond the horde of swordsmen phase quicker Captain Beans fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Oct 5, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 00:48
|
|
|
Gobbos are best, first time I saw an unit break and run after we had won the battle. Yes, I was shooting them in the back.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 02:58
|
|
|
Captain Beans posted:Could any cool dude link to the mod that lowers the requirements for building high tier units by 1? I think that would be cool to try out, but I have no idea what it's called. I was going to upload my personal mod once the patch hits and I get permission from the modders whose work I've frankensteined and tweaked to create it. I've been holding off since I don't want to upload it and then immediately have to re-do it for the patch Edit: I keep tweaking it and adding things and discarding them. It's very much a work in progress that I want to turn into a overhaul and showcase of every good idea that I think the game should have had to begin with. SickZip fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Oct 5, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 03:09
|
|
|
SickZip posted:Edit: I keep tweaking it and adding things and discarding them. It's very much a work in progress that I want to turn into a overhaul and showcase of every good idea that I think the game should have had to begin with. I prefer to make mods that touch upon one area at a time myself, massive overhaul mods can clash with other mods and you'll get a nonstop line of questioning about if you can make your mod work with X mod etc, plus you are also going to get asked A LOT just what you changed and while you can skip the explanation its better if you showcase just what you did.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 08:34
|
|
|
Ammanas posted:That kind of thing makes more sense in a historical TW game. It would also not work if the AI was held to the same rules. It essentially can't provide a meaningful challenge as it is. As Empire I had VC declare war and summarily invade me while all my stacks were over in bretonnia. They crossed the map and sieged Altdorf with three stacks of zombies and Mr Skeltals (+smatterings of vargheists, vargulfs, and grave guard), which was pretty epic and where my fightback began. Overall, removing public order bonuses from the AI seems to benefit VC a lot, which I like.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 13:28
|
|
|
So this game has some great mods. Since there isn't a thread to post about them I guess i'll do it here. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=765762123&searchtext= If you're a Vlad fan then the Isabella von Carstein mod came out in the past two weeks. The neat thing about it is apparently using a new type of "legendary hero" feature that hasn't been activated via DLC yet but exists in the code. Stat wise she's essentially a hero that can't be killed and acts far differently from most other heroes in the game (She's a buffing vampire with a ton of unique skills and is best used in combat rather than on the map.). She also has a set of unique summons and a unique model for both her and her dread guard. Her buffs are a bit overpowered, but seeing as she's the only LH in the game at the moment it's kind of to be expected. Fun fact too: Poking around also revealed that she also exists in the code already so she'll probably be in as a legendary hero eventually too. VC's get the best faction updates, it seems. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=704462446&searchtext=heroes+legendary This can help balance it out though. Legendary Heroes basically gives super units to each faction at the end of their tree. I haven't checked them out lately but they may be using the legendary hero system that Isabella is using. Way back when it was first released they acted as special army units since no one knew how to implement them (and much like how a bunch of mod makers claimed that new textures were implemented, some obnoxious people kept insisting that it was impossible until someone figured it out). Notably it adds in some great stuff that's missing. And just some flat out loving cool stuff for fans of the books. Gotrek Gurnisson is in for the Dwarves, for instance. For the Vampire Count's Kemmler finally starts out with Krell, who interestingly enough has an unimplemented (as of yet) special status effect called "berserk". When berserk activates you lose control over the unit at the trade-off of it just loving rampaging through mobs with no care of it's own safety. Of course this does mean it can be baited with fast hit and run units so that it goes running off from the main battle. Seeing this giant skeleton in armor suited for a Chosen just going to town on the Empire is amazing however. If you don't pick Kemmler then he's a super expensive unit at the end of one of the building chains for VC's. Archaon also gets a buff in the form of his bodyguard Vardek Crom. This makes him much more appealing compared to choosing Sigvald with his "gently caress you, I can heal through anything" traits or the giant gently caress train that is the building sized dragon ogre lord. Bretonnia also has the green knight. No info on that one though since I don't have a faction unlocker for it. The Empire gets Valten. IE: The guy who might be Sigmar reborn. Or at least is his chosen champion. He's a heavy cavalry buffing unit like how Isabella is. Archonex fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Oct 5, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 13:42
|
|
|
Archonex posted:Fun fact too: Poking around also revealed that she also exists in the code already so she'll probably be in as a legendary hero eventually too. VC's get the best faction updates, it seems. This is actually very interesting, given that DLC 5 is supposed to be Wood Elves (which explains why it is taking so long) and DLC 8 has been leaked as being Tomb Kings (probably the pre-order DLC for expansion 1), we were left with DLC 6 and 7 as mystery ones. DLC 6 certainly is a "Green and the Beard" sort of package, so I am willing to make a bet that DLC 7 will be a "Heroes of the Old World" pack.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 14:39
|
|
|
Gejnor posted:I prefer to make mods that touch upon one area at a time myself, massive overhaul mods can clash with other mods and you'll get a nonstop line of questioning about if you can make your mod work with X mod etc, plus you are also going to get asked A LOT just what you changed and while you can skip the explanation its better if you showcase just what you did. I fundamentally made it for myself and I'm planning to upload it just to see if anyone else likes it. Extra work beyond uploading what I have is something I want to avoid. Especially since once you have multiple versions that's multiple things yo fix once a patch blows it up Also, issues with compatibility is more of a pain if you're tweaking/refining as opposed to just adding. You become very incompatible very quickly and since tweaks have to be made in light of other tweaks. I don't think it's worth the effort to break apart for the most part. Once you start overhauling, you end up committing to it. The building requirement lowering mod is pretty simple though and would only take 30 minutes or so to recreate so I'll see about getting it done tonight or tomorrow and I'll upload it and throw a link to it in this thread when I get done
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 15:12
|
|
|
Instead of lowering building requirements, can't you just make the higher tier settlement upgrades cheaper/less growth intensive?
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 16:44
|
|
|
Fangz posted:Instead of lowering building requirements, can't you just make the higher tier settlement upgrades cheaper/less growth intensive? Lots of units require a 4th tier building to produce. Demigryphs, all non-mortar artillery for Empire, all non-Empire Captain agents for Empire, etc. Speaking of, I think that lower-level Empire fights are really fun. Clever use of swordsmen regiments is crucial, positioning of crossbowmen, etc. makes it all a lot more interesting. It's why I like the fact that you NEED to have armies made of cheap-o units to be able to succeed at higher difficulties, because elite units are far too expensive to maintain. Greenskins, thankfully, agree. Empire still needs a light melee cavalry option, though. jokes fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Oct 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 17:18
|
|
|
Was it ever established if there was going to be a Lord DLC with an upcoming White Dwarf? I've googled around but all If ind is speculation posts from September.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 19:16
|
|
|
jokes posted:Lots of units require a 4th tier building to produce. Demigryphs, all non-mortar artillery for Empire, all non-Empire Captain agents for Empire, etc. I feel like going with the tabletop and stuff that pistoliers actually should fill this role and be decent melee combatants, at least against light units and when flanking and such, dropping skirmish mode and basically making the pistols a weapon they fire while charging. Outriders should perform the missile cavalry role well enough.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 19:23
|
|
|
fnordcircle posted:Was it ever established if there was going to be a Lord DLC with an upcoming White Dwarf? I've googled around but all If ind is speculation posts from September. Grombrindal, the White Dwarf, is supposed to be coming in the november issue of White Dwarf. If he will be available elsewhere (I hope so, can't find the magazine in my country) it is a mystery.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
Man I'm really regretting ruining my first legendary Empire attempt by declaring on VCs (strength rank:1) and getting owned. I had a great start - took Reikland, Marienburg, and a couple other provinces really quickly, was rolling in cash and had multiple stacks. Every attempt since I can't even get off the ground. Any settlement I don't leave a stack in gets razed by Orcs (Grunburg), Beastmen (Helmgart) or captured by Marienburg (Eilhart). Last attempt was looking good until Marienburg rolled into Eilhart with two full stacks on turn 12, what the gently caress are you supposed to do against that? Maybe I'll try taking it slower and not moving out of a settlement until it has garrison level 2. Still don't know how I'll deal with Marienburg's bullshit though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 19:33
|
|
|
ZearothK posted:This is actually very interesting, given that DLC 5 is supposed to be Wood Elves (which explains why it is taking so long) and DLC 8 has been leaked as being Tomb Kings (probably the pre-order DLC for expansion 1), we were left with DLC 6 and 7 as mystery ones. DLC 6 certainly is a "Green and the Beard" sort of package, so I am willing to make a bet that DLC 7 will be a "Heroes of the Old World" pack. Personally I hope they call it the Grudge and the Green.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
Yukitsu posted:Personally I hope they call it the Grudge and the Green. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
And the last one has to be "The goat and the grail."
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
Da Grudge and Da Gobbo (ft. Skarsnik LL and squigs) Also, this game rules so here are more pictures of it A stubborn  A really stubborn wazzock  Armour fused to their flesh, blessed by their terrible gods, they emerged from a blood fog    Greenskins     
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 00:38
|
|
|
MilitantBlackGuy posted:Armour fused to their flesh, blessed by their terrible gods, they emerged from a blood fog Get this mod breh http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=691183794 This mod makes Chaos warriors/chosen/knights cosmetically as they're described. As in, they are all made fully armored from head to toe with very little flesh showing. All get armor around their necks, and all have helmets. No more exposed neck/head Chaos warriors etc. Also some tweaks to add weapon variety to those units (e.g. swords for Chaos warriors). It looks far better than vanilla. There are also mods to remove bald heads for longbeards and blood dragons. Lassitude fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Oct 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 01:07
|
|
|
Fangz posted:Instead of lowering building requirements, can't you just make the higher tier settlement upgrades cheaper/less growth intensive? It doesn't work as well. The AI has no sense to only construct the buildings that require tier 4 or 5 in the capital and to save slots so they could build them when they become available. It ends up crippled with an inability to build decent units as a consequence and then ends up with them forever until it looses the army since it doesn't disband The AI, when presented with all buildings and all units, can make fairly sensible choices. The problem is that it's terrible at planning ahead. More growth requires the same amount of planning ahead just at an accelerated rate. The solution to what building to build where/when is easy to a player so why keep it when all it does it make the game easier by crippling the AI Edit: Thinking about it, lower building requirements but slower growth would probably work well for the vanilla game. You help the AI out but also keep similar pacing to the default game SickZip fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Oct 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 01:28
|
|
|
Also, even if the AI stumbles on a good province layout it's not going to recruit mainly from there. So every garbage layout province it has increases the odds it will fill up it's army with inferior units and once it has garbage units it doesn't disband them. Unit turnover only happens when units die so mainly when an army gets wiped. You can literally sometimes get the AI to go up a notch in challenge by killing their armies, and leaving their cities, because this clears the slate of all the spearmen and pistoleers they've accumulated. Autoresolve further compounds the AI's problems by loving numerous garbage and disliking elites. This results in the attrition of AI vs AI autoresolve (which is most of their battles) causing a slow drift toward bad units. It's really amazing, and a credit to how competent it is in some areas, that the AI is as able to provide as much challenge as it does. Which is not a slam against the AI programmers because I can't even imagine the wizardry that drives the AI for a game like this. If they got the gameplay designers to throw them a bone, and quit it with creating mini-strategic choices that are no brainers to humans and immensely difficult for AI, it would probably be genuinely threatening SickZip fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Oct 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 01:42
|
|
|
Yeah, they removed a bunch of AI between shogun 2 and rome 2 and it's carried into warhammer. For instance, in shogun 2 there was AI for disbanding units and recruiting new ones. Coupled with the difficulty bonuses that let AI recruit samurai in 1 turn it was the primary culprit for reports of "the AI cheats and magically upgrades there units when in fog!". I suspect the removal of that and other features has to do with wanting to limit the number of things the AI can consider per turn in order to keep turn times down. It's the same reason there's a strict limiter on what they can consider per turn, even among what AI is left to them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 03:18
|
|
|
I don't know how good or bad Bundlestars is but they are having a 17% off sale. Just under four hours left as of this post https://www.bundlestars.com/en/game/total-war-warhammer
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 04:19
|
|
|
Decus posted:Yeah, they removed a bunch of AI between shogun 2 and rome 2 and it's carried into warhammer. For instance, in shogun 2 there was AI for disbanding units and recruiting new ones. Coupled with the difficulty bonuses that let AI recruit samurai in 1 turn it was the primary culprit for reports of "the AI cheats and magically upgrades there units when in fog!". This was also a funny trait of Shogun 2 because the strongest unit were the tier 1 yari ashigaru. Not just by cost, but they usually beat tougher Samurai units as well so long as they were properly managed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 04:29
|
|
|
AI for strategy games is hard. I've only got limited experience in such things, but I've got enough to respect just how much a dedicated AI programmer has to consider and rectify in order to make a challenging opponent, with the additional concern that they have to be efficient so turns don't take ages. Humans have a lot of innate heuristics that we do not appreciate enough when it comes to decision making. Just consider the dozens upon dozens of factors (cost-benefit/terrain/army comps/relative strength and absolute strength/diplomatic statuses/potential strength/alignment with long term strategy/risk of counter invasion/risk of opportunistic invasion/if the fucker is on your shitlist/are there boats involved i loving hate boats) you breeze through when deciding what you should invade and how to go about it; or even how you come about even considering that you ought to do an invasion versus when you never even consider doing it. Or when you have to think real hard about things, versus when you go "ahaha whatever this fucker is single province who cares im wasting them". and then consider that on the TW strategy layer, you can have multiple fronts and areas of activity that can either be loosely or tightly related and yet both rely on managing the same pool of overall resources; its similar to Go, and AI has only recently got the level of being able to cope with the problems Go demands, and Go is a vastly less complex game, mechanically, than TW is. Also the AI writer has to work with what they think is good decision making; if the AI writer for the strategic AI, for instance, makes the AI care about diplomacy values too much, then the AI is going to make "stupid" decisions a lot of times compared to a player who only gives a poo poo about those things inasmuch they know the AI cares. There's different schools on thought on how to approach this, such as making the AI behave "fairly"/"realistically", or having the AI have innate biases that are meant to counterbalance known things like "the player is better than the AI, the player doesn't care about diplomacy values like an AI does", or having the AI be "in it to win it" and be willing to ally against and attack a 100 relations ally because they're about to win the game or build stupid gimmick armies that break the game because it is optimal. of course any sane AI dev is going to use heuristics that work fast and work alright 95% of the time instead of doing insane things like literally trying to get the AI to grok the entire strategic layer (like just giving the AI build orders it follows to the letter instead of trying to build some monstrous system to get the AI to decide what to build (which ends up being the build order anyways 95% of the time) and making AI turns take an actual day to play out), but this has the risk of loving up if the heuristic turns out to be wrong or if the game changes too much so the heuristic just turns into pure insanity (like the AI building full samurai stacks while its economy utterly shits itself despite samurai being worse than ashigaru, etc). and that's not even getting into AI "cheats" like making the AI ignore the economy or unhappiness. These cheats help make the AI actually do its job of providing a challenge without having to create Deep Blue 2, Blue Harder for each gameplay element, but players hate them and bitch endlessly about them so w/e. i have some books on this sort of poo poo i ought to be reading Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Oct 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 06:37
|
|
|
Thats why AI should cheat 100% of the time. Just hide those cheats behind a big curtain.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 06:57
|
|
|
eh, you can go too far with the cheating to where its just stupid and lazy, like with that one Warhammer Total War mod for Medieval 2 that just spawned AI stacks endlessly without any sort of consideration of anything. then again, most well regarded strategy games do stuff like that on some level; in things like Advance War, Fire Emblem, and the like, the AI is intentionally pretty fuckin dull but is given an overwhelming advantage. It lets players feel really clever to beat up a superior force lead by a dipshit. Civilization AI ends up like that on higher levels as well. Where TW and Civ break down is due to how limited these advantages are; once you get past the big hump of difficulty, the game becomes increasingly easier and forgiving, even on high difficulty. Realm Divide was pretty good in solving that issue, but yet again players complained. Players also complain when the game is easy, tho. Players complain when their ability to grow bigger and stronger is limited in any way. Players also complain when they lose from their own fault, and then savescum, and complain about what happens when they savescum or if the game is made harder to compensate for savescumming. Players themselves are scum and then greatest enemy to any developer.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 07:27
|
|
|
I know im scum..
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 13:30
|
|
|
This is why the Steam thread represents the ideal: a post-player gaming market, where users buy videogames on special and never play it. The future is now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 14:38
|
|
|
Player scum here, I fully believe that 99% of total war players want to 1) create a cool formation 2) have the AI march right into it 3) win easily while convinced they pc gamings General Patton. I reached this conclusion back in the Napoleon days when using the quick battle option to take over AI armies in people's single player games (which I wish would return). If you ever would have the slightest chance of winning the other player would ask you to lose so you don't "ruin their campaign". Losing an even battle vs the AI is pretty bad (in a shameful display sense) and rebuilding forces was a slow process. What I do like is that in Warhammer armies have a high upkeep to cost ratio, which means losing an army will quickly have you recover a ton of cash and so losing a full stack isn't a game loser (or even much of a setback) AI taking its time with sieges is nice too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 15:02
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:eh, you can go too far with the cheating to where its just stupid and lazy, like with that one Warhammer Total War mod for Medieval 2 that just spawned AI stacks endlessly without any sort of consideration of anything. then again, most well regarded strategy games do stuff like that on some level; in things like Advance War, Fire Emblem, and the like, the AI is intentionally pretty fuckin dull but is given an overwhelming advantage. It lets players feel really clever to beat up a superior force lead by a dipshit. Civilization AI ends up like that on higher levels as well. Where TW and Civ break down is due to how limited these advantages are; once you get past the big hump of difficulty, the game becomes increasingly easier and forgiving, even on high difficulty. There's another approach that can be cool, which is the galactic civilizations 2 approach of designing the game from the outset to be playable by AI. The result is a more constrained game, but if you turn up the CPU time setting all the way the computer's drat good at it. Problem is that leads to a really constrained design and requires the designers and ai programmers be able to communicate or better yet be the same person.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 15:06
|
|
|
Have they fixed the chaos dragon to not be garbage yet?
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 16:03
|
|
|
Captain Beans posted:Player scum here, I fully believe that 99% of total war players want to 1) create a cool formation 2) have the AI march right into it 3) win easily while convinced they pc gamings General Patton. "Where did this light cavalry come from, oh my god ambush!!!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 16:16
|
|
|
I remember playing shotgun 2 multi player and winning a couple by using the strategy of "charge loanswords into their archer heavy army" to great effect.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 16:19
|
|
|
Archonex posted:So this game has some great mods. Since there isn't a thread to post about them I guess i'll do it here. Any idea if the model was already in the code ? I thought modders couldn't import their own model and animations yet ?
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 16:26
|
|
|
Hammerstein posted:Any idea if the model was already in the code ? I thought modders couldn't import their own model and animations yet ? No clue. Apparently they can do something to duplicate models though. The Isabella model is distinct (It's a recolor with some better facial details because lol modders.) from the vampire agent model. So unless there's code in place to do a recolor i'm assuming it's possible to alter the existing models in game to suit your needs. Also this would be the point where someone posts the Kislev horse-bear picture I guess.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 16:41
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:Have they fixed the chaos dragon to not be garbage yet? No, same for the zombie one. The mods are out of date and crash your game, too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 17:32
|
|
|
Tiler Kiwi posted:Realm Divide was pretty good in solving that issue, but yet again players complained. Players also complain when the game is easy, tho. Players complain when their ability to grow bigger and stronger is limited in any way. Players also complain when they lose from their own fault, and then savescum, and complain about what happens when they savescum or if the game is made harder to compensate for savescumming. Players themselves are scum and then greatest enemy to any developer. This is why I blame customers for everything bad about products rather than companies.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 17:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 21:47 |
|
|
Archonex posted:No clue. Apparently they can do something to duplicate models though. The Isabella model is distinct (It's a recolor with some better facial details because lol modders.) from the vampire agent model. So unless there's code in place to do a recolor i'm assuming it's possible to alter the existing models in game to suit your needs. Not sure anyone figured out adding new models to a warscape game yet, but textures are pretty easy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 17:49
|
|
