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Count Freebasie posted:I was using snake as a pejorative; more along the lines of a douchebag or fuckhead. I agree with your assessment of the characters. I meant only to imply that guys who are assholes like that don't last in the (at least my) industry. If your type of sales is like theirs, where you make your deal and move on to the next target, you may be able to get away with that, but if you are in a type of sale that requires relationship building and maintenance, and the ability to network well using your past customers as referrals, you get black-balled pretty fast, at least in what I do. Yep, I agree completely. My industry is rife with salesmen that are like Blake, but like your company we do not hire folks with that personality.
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Mar 23, 2016 04:08
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This is a fantastic thread. Thank you all so much for being so free with your experience. Here's my situation: I was a private equity attorney at a Wall Street firm in London then Hong Kong for about 9 years. At the end of that I was burned out, bored out of my skull by heavy document work, and ready for something new. I switched to one of the big suppliers to lawyers, an information company, as a lawyer-editor, with a view to moving to the business side. Was fast-tracked for promotion, so after one year I took over the team and after the second year I took over the product entirely (regional director-level role). We have around 10 products that we sell to law firms, in house lawyers and governments; mine is huge in the UK and US but a startup in Asia. I built it up from zero to a decent size and grew the team from one to seven people. Since I was the senior person associated with the product in Asia I've spent a lot of time in front of customers and prospects, either directly or running thought leadership events etc and I freaking love it (and get a lot of positive reinforcement from colleagues). Long story short the MD for Asia asked me if I would consider moving to a sales role handling all of our other software solutions as well as my product. It's a step down as I currently manage a 6-person team and would not initially have any direct reports as it's an entirely new business here, but in comp terms it's better: my base salary will be roughly the same as it is now and there's a very solid commission if I hit target; I also have assurances about milestones to hit to build a team under me. Territory is three countries. I have a high degree of confidence in this: I know our products, know the market, can talk lawyer-to-lawyer and after nearly 10 years of being yelled at by stressed PE execs am quite resilient and process rejection well. So I'm all geared up to accept the role. At the same time, I think it's going to be incredibly tough. The market for these products isn't mature and I'm expecting a lot of "don't bother me" at first, followed by many months building pipeline before my first sale. I'm also going to be doing p much everything myself, and selling into a region where people don't look like me, which for some of them will be a problem. Anyone got any tips for transitioning from an operations/product role to a sales one, or other thoughts/observations? The product is essentially b2b software packages around a law firm's core business or a company or government agency's legal dept. Long sales cycles, high deal values.
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Apr 7, 2016 15:49
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On the opposite end of the guy above me, I'm looking for something to transition out of sales into. I've been doing tech sales, primarily services around the IBM portfolio, specifically the IM stack around analytics and data architecture. I've been here for about 7 years now, and for the first 5 years it was good - drat good. I liked the autonomy I had working for a small company and for awhile it was good. The last 18 months or so, however, have been rough. I'm concerned about the company's viability in the long run - the business we used to do is drying up as more tools are replacing people and consultants, and the company isn't embracing new technologies that would complement our existing skills - not just open source products such as Apache Spark and Hadoop, but even IBM products such as Watson. I've been looking for another job and whiffing on interviews and I came to the realization last night that I'm burned out on sales. I'm burned out on having a quota, I'm burned out on working for a small company where there is, at times, very little support and zero inclination from the top down to branch out. For the past year now, I've been unable to have conversations with some customers about the technology they want to talk about simply because even if I successfully closed, I have nothing to sell. That said, I do love working with customers on hard challenges, I love the creativity of it, and I love the speed at which technology evolves. I just can't seem to figure out what would be a good role for me though - to be fair, this really occurred to me just last night. Any ideas?
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Apr 8, 2016 18:36
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Shooting Blanks posted:On the opposite end of the guy above me, I'm looking for something to transition out of sales into. I've found transition / implementation positions easy to get interest from, but I'm 26 and have way less experience than everyone here
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Apr 11, 2016 21:54
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Well, I'm back in the pitching life again. Literally acting a Director of Sales & Marketing for a merch service company. It's a headache at times, but the money is great. I'm trying to find some more outside reps that I can get other members on my team to funnel through to me to recruit. Currently our recruiters are mostly reaching out to other merch services people via doing resume pulls + emailing + calling from CareerBuilder and then dropping the resumes from one folder to the next in dropbox so I can keep track of the flow. It's worked so far, and I've recruited people on my team who are being groomed into running their own sales teams in the next couple of months after I see enough sales from them. The operation also provides these guys preset appointments with owners and a high owner availability rate, large commissions per POS sold, and a draw per merch account sold, trip bonuses, gas allowances, etc. so for the reps it's a pretty sweet deal. Are there any other cost effective solutions for recruitment for an organization that is recruiting industry specific outside sales reps?
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Apr 24, 2016 06:19
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This seems like a good enough thread to ask. I recently started a phone job in a small business. Real small. As in so small I was already interviewing other candidates when I was only employed for a month because no one else was available to do it. They want me to start cold calling businesses in our area to set up vendor service through our company. This is the first time I've ever had to do any sort of sales work that's not all "Well that's the price tag on the shirt, miss" retail bullshit. I'm not a very social person, I personally don't think I'd do well in this. I'm great at inbound calls because I have information, the customer has a need, and I just put the two together. This feels like a whole other beast to me. There's no goals or quotas so I'm willing to at least try and they are very happy with my work at my current responsibilities so I'm not worried about losing my job if this doesn't pan out but I would like some beginner tips and all that.
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May 15, 2016 02:44
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Basic stuff I did when in the same position: - cold call to get in person meetings not sell them on anything over the phone - develop a script and practice the hell out of it, mostly figuring out how to go off of it - figured out a small business that was kind of a legit target but didn't really need our services (convenience stores) and called every one of them before I called actual targets just so that I could get used to the script and used to being shut down
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May 15, 2016 05:03
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Volume posted:This seems like a good enough thread to ask. I recently started a phone job in a small business. Real small. As in so small I was already interviewing other candidates when I was only employed for a month because no one else was available to do it. Have you read SPIN Selling? That book is probably your best bet to figuring out how to do outbound sales. Its about crafting questions to be asking your prospective clients. It works for selling Xerox machines up to 50 million dollar advertising contracts. http://www.amazon.com/SPIN-Selling-Neil-Rackham/dp/1565114205
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May 16, 2016 17:22
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Snatch Duster posted:Have you read SPIN Selling? That book is probably your best bet to figuring out how to do outbound sales. Its about crafting questions to be asking your prospective clients. It works for selling Xerox machines up to 50 million dollar advertising contracts. SPIN is really good
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May 19, 2016 00:13
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Or I have a super legal definitely not downloaded copy I can send you on a throwaway email. Or just torrent it. But seriously read it. Has been one of the main parts of my sales from 3 grand conference tickets through to 100k+ software
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May 19, 2016 04:36
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Free on audible! I think I'll give it a shot. THanks guys
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May 19, 2016 04:44
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5-HT posted:Well, I'm back in the pitching life again. Literally acting a Director of Sales & Marketing for a merch service company. It's a headache at times, but the money is great. I'm trying to find some more outside reps that I can get other members on my team to funnel through to me to recruit. Currently our recruiters are mostly reaching out to other merch services people via doing resume pulls + emailing + calling from CareerBuilder and then dropping the resumes from one folder to the next in dropbox so I can keep track of the flow. It's worked so far, and I've recruited people on my team who are being groomed into running their own sales teams in the next couple of months after I see enough sales from them. The operation also provides these guys preset appointments with owners and a high owner availability rate, large commissions per POS sold, and a draw per merch account sold, trip bonuses, gas allowances, etc. so for the reps it's a pretty sweet deal. Yo, I haven't checked back on this thread in ages, obviously, but LinkedIn is pretty good. We normally pay recruiters $10k for a candidate, and a colleague of mine got a decent rep off of LinkedIn. I usually just let the recruiters do the work for me, as I don't have the time to go and scout people on top of what I already do, but apparently it worked for my buddy, and we are very selective about our hires.
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Jun 7, 2016 18:45
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Count Freebasie posted:some good poo poo I read this thread ages ago out of interest and I wasn't a big fan of sales, but since then it's grown on me and one of our two sales guys is leaving the department. I'm on really good terms with him and he asked me if I would want his job, so I thought about it for a while and the more I explore it, the more I think it's what I should be doing. Some of what Count Freebasie wrote sold me on it and I see myself in a lot of those points. I went in strong with an email to the CEO - closing with the line "Give me the opportunity and I'll impress you." which I'm quite proud of - and he's on board. I may or may not have to go through an interview process. I feel pretty well-prepared and I'll burn through SPIN Selling in the next few days to kick things off. If anyone has any pro tips I'm all ears. The role involves basically all sales activities so it seems like a perfect place to start getting experience. I'm excited to get stuck in and start taking the reins for our existing clients, most of whom I already know. Thanks thread, you probably created a salesman!
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Jun 17, 2016 17:30
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Impromptu Flip posted:I read this thread ages ago out of interest and I wasn't a big fan of sales, but since then it's grown on me and one of our two sales guys is leaving the department. I'm on really good terms with him and he asked me if I would want his job, so I thought about it for a while and the more I explore it, the more I think it's what I should be doing. Some of what Count Freebasie wrote sold me on it and I see myself in a lot of those points. I went in strong with an email to the CEO - closing with the line "Give me the opportunity and I'll impress you." which I'm quite proud of - and he's on board. make it very very clear that you are hungry, ambitious, and do not give a poo poo about benefits or work life balance.
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Jun 17, 2016 21:13
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Hello Thread, I've got an opportunity to move to a sales engineer position after ~8 years being a systems administrator and I'm pretty loving excited about it. Starting salary almost doubles what I make now, and I'm told there's plenty of opportunity for advancement. I've never been in a client facing role before though, and I have no experience with sales. Anything I should know or read before I have my screens/interviews done? In spite of the fact that they are offering training I'd like to be prepared. I've got SPIN sales on my reading list already.
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Jul 10, 2016 19:51
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Anyone looking into stepping into BTB sales in North Central NJ? Client sells cables to TV broadcasters and is looking for an entry level candidate. It's a real outside sales position with a manufacturer, not a bs door to door marketing or pyramid. PM me if you'd like to know more. Way out of our market or I wouldn't hassle y'all.
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Aug 29, 2016 21:46
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So I started an SE role and am looking to spend my yearly training stipend.... It's 1500...any suggestions for what classes/trainings to take?
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Sep 3, 2016 05:24
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Hambilderberglar posted:Hello Thread, Going from my 1 month-ish experience working with our sales engineers, what I really want from them when I get them on a call is to (a) know their stuff for the technical questions and (b) be really good at listening, so that when the client asks about X, they don't start by answering about Y. Showing that you understand that dynamic goes a long way. Outside of that, basic professionalism, being able to show you're organised, etc is always good, and knowing the frequently asked client questions and having the answers to them all seem good to demonstrate.
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Sep 3, 2016 12:45
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My new sales skill I'm working on is saying no. I try to be very accommodating and I really don't mind providing discounting and working to get the lowest reasonable price for the customer but sometimes I think just saying no is the right solution. I've been working with a prospect for a while and they announce that they have selected us and there was much rejoicing. I finalize their quote for a new system at 190k (which is what I had told them and already with significant discounting because they are a small organization). They come back and say they only have 145k. I tell them 145k is impossible without de-scoping the project which they refuse to do. I get additional discounting (and cut some training) to get the quote to ~170k and let them know this is the best my manager and I can do. The customer says they went back to management and they can do 160k. I cry/drink heavily then sell my soul to the VP of our services team to get them to cut some days off the project and we get the quote to 160k. I send them the quote for 160k and then they send me an email saying, "actually we only have 155k" at which point I almost just replied with "gently caress you." I said this is the absolute final quote and they ended up purchasing at 160k but the whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. I mean good for them they got 30k knocked off but I felt like there was some "bad faith" negotiation going on there at the end. Anyway the moral of my story is learning to say no, I probably shouldn't have budged at 170k but who knows.
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Sep 3, 2016 15:53
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Lyon posted:My new sales skill I'm working on is saying no. I try to be very accommodating and I really don't mind providing discounting and working to get the lowest reasonable price for the customer but sometimes I think just saying no is the right solution. At my old job I had customers coming in and promising me P/Os for 100,000 items if I give them deep discounts that I managed to get for them. Then they change the entire scope of the order so that they only order 25,000 items instead. At those volumes the discounts don't make sense. It took me a year to learn that customers will push you to see how far you can discount them and really the best way to deal with this is to never give them breaks because they aren't gonna give YOU a break either.
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Sep 3, 2016 19:36
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You probably shouldn't have budged at 190, for two reasons: it shows the client that you don't think your product is really worth what you're charging (maybe it isn't, but you don't generally want to tell the client that), and it shows you haven't reached your lowest price. Once you move off of 190, they have no incentive to stop pushing on price on this deal or any future deals. You can move down on a scope change, but straight discounting never works in the long run. Live and learn.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:09
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Jordan7hm posted:You probably shouldn't have budged at 190, for two reasons: it shows the client that you don't think your product is really worth what you're charging (maybe it isn't, but you don't generally want to tell the client that), and it shows you haven't reached your lowest price. Once you move off of 190, they have no incentive to stop pushing on price on this deal or any future deals. You can move down on a scope change, but straight discounting never works in the long run. Live and learn. In software I feel like discounts are expected on most orders although usually it is a nominal, "we want your business and our competitors probably did this too" discount (at least at my last two companies). I really don't mind it when the customer is a tiny little research institute like this one who honestly did have budget constraints. If everyone is honest I really don't mind working with a customer to get to where we need to be but when they said 160 and then said oh actually the number is 155 I was pretty pissed. The problem is for this order the services were in the realm of 4x the software (which isn't totally uncommon but that's a large burden for a tiny company). I didn't discount the software because I don't believe in the product but rather because we truly were probably too high for their budget. I'm curious what other software companies' processes are when it comes to pricing services. We now need to get the VP of services to sign off on every statement of work and the effort before we can book an order. To do that we have to write the statement of work and level of effort which then gets reviewed by services management. They multiply our effort by 1.5-2 and then we need to try and negotiate that # down internally otherwise we get laughed out of the room by prospects when we tell them a simple project will be 300 person days of work. I'll write that up more succinctly at some point but the main point is I don't discount the software for fun especially because the commission on software is way better than on services (understandably).
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Sep 4, 2016 02:32
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Beefeater1980 posted:Going from my 1 month-ish experience working with our sales engineers, what I really want from them when I get them on a call is to (a) know their stuff for the technical questions and (b) be really good at listening, so that when the client asks about X, they don't start by answering about Y. Showing that you understand that dynamic goes a long way. Outside of that, basic professionalism, being able to show you're organised, etc is always good, and knowing the frequently asked client questions and having the answers to them all seem good to demonstrate.  I am working under the assumption training will cover the nitty gritty of the product. And I am actually an excellent listener, so I'm not foreseeing problems there. I'll make a point to note the questions and get the answers for them.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:19
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Hambilderberglar posted:Thanks! I was beginning to think I killed this thread. My suggestions (from a sales rep/account manager) for future sales engineers are:
Those are a few of the things I've seen that have led to presentations going from good to only okay. Other people may feel differently or disagree but those are some of my thoughts, obviously take them with a grain of salt. Lyon fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 17:57
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There's this company that wants to hire me to sell a cloud based ICM solution. I passed their first interview and will have a second one soon. I've learned from my experiences at my previous employer and I am diving back into the sales world again as it's probably the only way I can make any reasonable amount of money with my current interests and skillset. The concern I have here is I'm joining a startup company that's trying to disrupt the hold that IBM, Oracle, SAP etc have on this industry. My targets will be CFOs, Controllers, Finance directors of large enterprise level firms looking to track their sales performance. After reading several white papers and watching the IBM Cognos videos I'm having a hard time understanding what the value proposition of sales performance management software is. Top 3 benefits include: 1. Better direction of sales performance strategy - OK this one makes sense, but why should you pay for a cloud based software application to do this? 2. Preventing data errors with your compensation plans - This one is probably the most compelling argument. I've seen some mickey mouse outfits where they work with live "working document" excel spreadsheets that they e-mail around to determine how to compensate sales people. Data is slow, there's overpayment and it costs time, money and labor hours on what essentially is overhead. Cut those costs and there's a potential saving to be had. So how do you quantify that? How is for example Cognos better than Business Objects or whatever other ICM you can get on the market? How do I steal business from large companies like that who have way more resources than the tiny startup I'll be working for? 3. Shadow Accounting - So most sales people keep their own spreadsheet calculating how much commission they're supposed to get based on their revenues. How does software prevent them from still doing this? The average sales guy I met would never trust some software to properly calculate his commissions. He'll keep his personal spreadsheet regardless of the system you deploy so that 5-10% in labour hours you save is basically moot since a piece of software isn't gonna change old habits. I'm planning on asking some very pointed questions during the next interview. Especially after reading this article and realizing it describes my last employer to a T. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-...ontent_res_name
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Sep 12, 2016 05:16
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How big are they? Are they are past the really early stages and have an actual cash flow from real users? I know from my own job that because the big IBM Salesforce applications are very expensive and heavyweight, we have had internal discussions on replacing them with something simpler more than once. It usually dies because of the cost/disruption of switching and lack of compelling reason to replace "basically works ok" with "unknown but possibly better future". So... lookout for that haha. I would assume if it's been discussed here it's come up elsewhere and maybe some of them would switch or adopt a smaller provider as their first platform over the behemoth stuff. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 19:49
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Xguard86 posted:How big are they? They started out as a consultancy that does implementations and systems deployment. But then 2 years ago they got into the Business Intelligence, Performance Management etc world. I had the interview today and they told me that they are in a young market and predict they can capture a sizable amount of business. In the 1st quarter of this year they hired over 25 people. They gave me a lot of the same arguments you did about how IBM might be too big, too expensive and that this company is positioned as a more agile, cheaper and user friendly solution.
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Sep 14, 2016 00:54
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Kraftwerk posted:They started out as a consultancy that does implementations and systems deployment. But then 2 years ago they got into the Business Intelligence, Performance Management etc world. A lot of consulting is looking that direction. Even McKinsey the blue chip 500k a month strat firm is pushing "mcKinsey Solutions" their software platform. It makes sense: you have better margins more reliable revenue and way better scalability, which is the key to mega bucks. I don't have the expertise or knowledge of the situation to say much. It might also depend on your risk tolerance too. The old saying "no one ever got fired for hiring IBM/Salesforce/ whatever" still seems sadly true in big enterprise. It's often a real battle to get a free open source option better suited to a task over a very expensive very broad but "supported" alternative from a major brand. I imagine a proprietary alternative could be harder still. but there is also a laundry list of successful companies humming away serving smaller companies, a few big clients and/or specific niches.
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Sep 14, 2016 13:34
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New sales goon here. I just got a job in wireless retail sales for one of the big national carriers as my first sales job. I've spent the past 6 years in customer service/hospitality and was looking for something different. Any advice would be appreciated. I notice a lot of people have recommended SPIN in this thread. Is that useful for retail sales, or is there something more specific I should look into?
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Oct 1, 2016 05:13
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Apologies if it's been asked but are there any good resources for information about how to run/manage a territory? I just took a job in B2B HVAC territory sales and I would really like some good resources that would help me develop the most efficient ways to tackle this job.
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Oct 4, 2016 19:05
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It's sad but I like to read stories of other peoples struggles and misery in sales... I guess it helps me cope with my own struggles. I have moved up to a top flight sales position with a great income, but it comes with a stupid commitment of hours every week that I'm having trouble continuing to just swallow every week. An absolutely minimum of 55+ hours every week for multiple years really takes a toll on you eventually, and I just can't understand how anyone can keep doing this long term. It's bad that I don't enjoy going in to work anymore, and while I still experience the 'thrill of the hunt', I find myself every single day now counting down the hours to when I'm off. Which is pretty sad in itself because I'm so tired from the 12-14 hour day that all I'm going to do is go home, eat, and go to sleep to start over tomorrow. It didn't feel like that early on, and I'm not sure if its burnout with sales or burnout with this particular 55+ hour a week schedule. I'm guilty of 'keeping up with the Joneses' in that I've increased my expenditures on a nice house, toys and bad habits and spoiling my son to where now I can't really afford to step back to a regular 40 hour a week job if it means stepping back to a sub six figure income. It's strange to me that I have college educated friends who are jealous of my income and incredulous about how I skipped college and now make more than many doctors and lawyers, but how I'm not happy with my situation. They say money can't buy happiness but that's half right, half wrong. I've been broke and struggled to pay the bills before as well, and I can say with certainty, if I'm going to be miserable, I would rather it be with the bills paid than without. Everything in life is about balance and I suppose I should have struck a better balance of schedule and free time earlier on in my career. Heavy income is great but almost kind of pointless if you're never available to actually enjoy your house, family, friends and the stupid crap you've bought with that money. Sorry this post doesn't have much direction or architecture, I guess I'm just having a bad day and this is me venting. Krono99 fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 06:47
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I think we've all been there before, it can be really tough to deal with the vicious cycle of needing to work long hours and getting burnt out from working long hours. Depending on where you live you might be able to find something as lucrative with a more reasonable time commitment. Personally I don't think most people can handle a long term sales career. I'm going on 13 years in sales and my plan is to make as much money as I can in the next few years, then transition to something else outside of sales. Definitely don't fall into the trap of spending all your income otherwise you will compound the issue of feeling stuck like you are feeling now.
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Oct 7, 2016 15:55
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I've definitely been there and it definitely comes down to finding that balance. What do you want to do more? Have time to spend with your son and enjoy the things you can purchase? Or be able to purchase way cooler things that you have no time to use or spend with your son. I used to be the toys line for sure, but now with family in the picture I care less about getting to x if it costs me hours with my family that I'm not willing to lose. You have a 1 & 5 year plan laid out for lifestyle and money? Doing that really helped me because I could always look back at it and see if what I was doing at that point in time was helping me get towards those goals of how I wanted my overall life to be.
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Oct 7, 2016 17:54
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Impromptu Flip posted:Thanks thread, you probably created a salesman! I'm now officially in sales as a sales engineer. Thanks thread, there's a lot of great stuff in here. Don't work too hard.
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Oct 7, 2016 20:56
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Impromptu Flip posted:I'm now officially in sales as a sales engineer. Thanks thread, there's a lot of great stuff in here. Don't work too hard. Congratulations. Sales engineer is the best role I have ever had, and is going to be the role that completes my arc from small country town in Australia to Silicon Valley.
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Oct 8, 2016 17:05
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I work in sales for tech hardware. I was recently brought into a global account set with some of the company's largest customers. I'm very grateful for the position and I'm always trying to streamline my workflow. now more than ever as I am learning what it takes to keep up with these accounts I want to max my efficiency with routine tasks. While my company has their own internal tools for system building and quote generation, it's pretty much up to the rep to develop their own system of organization. My peers pretty much all rely on excel sheets to keep their customer's quotes/prices and snippets of notes. This is a very manual process and I regularly need to update configs as customer needs and industry updates come along. I was hoping if anyone here has run accross software they may use that better organizes all this information and can easily show differences between old, current and new proposed changes. I'm not looking to replace our quotes, but better organize them with clear details and are easily searchable/filterable. This wouldn't be too different from a type of file versioning system with filtering/search capabilities. I'm not sure if this sounds too wild or not and that I should stick to a working excel file but I thought I'd ask.
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Oct 9, 2016 09:46
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ellic posted:I work in sales for tech hardware. I was recently brought into a global account set with some of the company's largest customers. I'm very grateful for the position and I'm always trying to streamline my workflow. now more than ever as I am learning what it takes to keep up with these accounts I want to max my efficiency with routine tasks. Do you guys have a CRM? It sounds like Salesforce can solve most of your issues with the opportunities tab. You can create a specific report by opportunity and automatically have it show you views with the relevant parameters you want.
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Oct 9, 2016 17:39
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Sorry for the double post- but could anyone elaborate on LinkedIn Autopilot? Is it any good? I don't think anyone at my work knows about it but they do use enhanced LinkedIn accounts so if I buy autopilot I may get a major edge over my coworkers.
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Oct 13, 2016 16:53
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I know someone who is studying part-time one at university while living in NYC and is looking for a full-time sales position. Is there any advice I can give them, even though they already know how to sell? Is finding a good sales job something one can do by applying to different companies and seeing who bites?
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Nov 8, 2016 22:21
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As part of my career development, my boss wants me to go on a communications course and a sales course during the year. Can anyone recommend either of these? I'm in the UK.
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Feb 26, 2017 11:03
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