|
NikkolasKing posted:Now, as I said earlier, I'm limited to how much I can understand some of what's going on in France. Jean-Marie isn't half as internationally famous as his daughter and so all I know of the man is the poo poo people say about him in videos about her. Le Pen Sr. is a brutal, vulgar, but intelligent and even quite erudite man. He is witty, in a terribly racist and antisemitic way. He is vindictive and deeply intolerant. Among other things, he has wanted to put AIDS sufferers in quarantine camps, has constantly white-washed German occupation ("not that bad, rather humane") and the Holocaust ("just a footnote in history"), said that Roms were "an irritating and smelly presence", said that the demographic challenges of Africa "could be solved in three months by Milord Ebola" and just loves insulting various people by making Holocaust-themed puns. He belongs to the old fascist guard, the kind of people who made the OAS and AF. He fought during the Algerian War of Independence and is suspected of having committed war crimes, though he was never tried. He became wealthy by getting written on the will of an industrialist's heir. In short, he is a complete rear end in a top hat, and one of the most bigoted politician you can imagine, but he's not an complete idiot like Trump; he is cunning and that's what made him so dangerous. But he was never able, or never willing, to disguise just how awful he is as a person -- perhaps because all the controversies did not prevent his base to grow, and hey, free publicity! His daughter's main effort has been to try to get rid of his image and make him mediatically irrelevant; which caused internal strife in the FN between his followers, her followers, the followers of her niece Marion Marechal-Le Pen, and a few other people who tried to take control of the party despite not being part of the Le Pen dynasty. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Oct 5, 2016 |
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 17:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 20:34 |
|
|
Cat Mattress posted:His daughter's main effort has been to try to get rid of his image and make him mediatically irrelevant; which caused internal strife in the FN between his followers, her followers, the followers of his niece Marion Marechal-Le Pen, and a few other people who tried to take control of the party despite not being part of the Le Pen dynasty.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 17:30
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:You mean her niece/his granddaughter, right? Yes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 17:41
|
|
|
António Guterres winning the UN Secretary General position is proof that in a fight between Moscow and Berlin, the guys who win are those nobody cares about.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 17:49
|
|
|
Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Everyone thought the broomstick was a joke, but it's actually our new secret weapon. We will sweep the Asiatic hordes before us Liebstandarte Heinrich Töpfer.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 18:04
|
|
|
KoldPT posted:António Guterres winning the UN Secretary General position is proof that in a fight between Moscow and Berlin, the guys who win are those nobody cares about.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2016 18:13
|
|
|
POS MEP got rekted by some other POS MEP.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 19:13
|
|
|
It's an UKIP member knocked out by another UKIP guy for ideologically wavering. Awesome.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 19:17
|
|
|
Sound like he was favored to be the next UKIP leader since the last one quit after just 18 days.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 21:48
|
|
|
Pinch Me Im Meming posted:POS MEP got rekted by some other POS MEP. Concussions bad, but on the other hand  .
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2016 21:52
|
|
|
The_Franz posted:Sound like he was favored to be the next UKIP leader since the last one quit after just 18 days. it's sort of a "tu quoque, fili" moment.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 00:16
|
|
|
Just bc this came up: The Bundeswehr is a complete and utter joke of an army and would not be able to even protect Germany from an invasion from a medium-sized eastern-european country. It's only redeeming quality is the ability to organize and support catastrophe help. It certainly can not fight a war. It's unclear if Germany would be able to produce a proper army and how long it would take, but it ain't happening anyway.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 09:22
|
|
|
Well, at least Germany is making weapons to arm other NATO members.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 09:25
|
|
|
I highly doubt that Germany will ever need it's military for an article 5 war on European soil. There is simply no way even the most sophisticated military would be able to sustain an occupation of hostile territory in an area as densely populated and developed as Europe. Even Russia is only able to take the parts of the Ukraine that are mostly populated by ethnic Russians.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 09:31
|
|
|
caps on caps on caps posted:Just bc this came up: The Bundeswehr is a complete and utter joke of an army and would not be able to even protect Germany from an invasion from a medium-sized eastern-european country. It's only redeeming quality is the ability to organize and support catastrophe help. It certainly can not fight a war. It's unclear if Germany would be able to produce a proper army and how long it would take, but it ain't happening anyway. Look, they've bought all these weapons and it was expensive enough, but now you tell they have to pay for maintenance? How is Germany to boast a budget surplus if it wastes its money on pointless things like maintenance? Besides it's not like they actually need those planes to fly and those tanks to roll, do they? They just need to have them so that they'll seem dangerous to anyone reading the Wikipedia page on how much stuff they have. That's how deterrence works. Speaking of the German military: because Airbus is too tardy in meeting their promises for the A400M, Germany has announced they're gonna buy a few C-130 from the US. But in a grand showing of Europeanness, as makes sense when buying American instead of European, it'll be put in common with the French Hercule fleet. I translate: Germany's getting some planes and offloading their maintenance on the French. http://www.janes.com/article/64353/germany-and-france-create-joint-tactical-air-transport-squadron
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 10:29
|
|
|
Cat Mattress posted:I translate: Germany's getting some planes and offloading their maintenance on the French. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Oct 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 11:09
|
|
|
Cat Mattress posted:Look, they've bought all these weapons and it was expensive enough, but now you tell they have to pay for maintenance? How is Germany to boast a budget surplus if it wastes its money on pointless things like maintenance? Besides it's not like they actually need those planes to fly and those tanks to roll, do they? They just need to have them so that they'll seem dangerous to anyone reading the Wikipedia page on how much stuff they have. That's how deterrence works. Genuinely happy to see more and more French/German military integration. I'm usually one of these pissy pacifist types, complaining about the sky high Bundeswehr budget, but I would gladly support a larger EU army. (Cause the EU has an actual frontier to defend and good luck trying to start an offensive war with a multinational army. That's like herding cats.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 11:48
|
|
Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:(Cause the EU has an actual frontier to defend and good luck trying to start an offensive war with a multinational army. That's like herding cats.) Let me tell you about the Roman Empire, Alexander the Great or pretty much any other force that conquered larger swathes of land - they were all multinational (or to be more precise multi-ethnical). Hell even Napoleon's Grand Army and Hitler's Wehrmacht were relied on forces from other nations.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 11:54
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:Let me tell you about the Roman Empire, Alexander the Great or pretty much any other force that conquered larger swathes of land - they were all multinational (or to be more precise multi-ethnical). Hell even Napoleon's Grand Army and Hitler's Wehrmacht were relied on forces from other nations. I'll just go ahead and point out that you're stupid if you think any of those examples are in any way comparable to a unified EU army.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 12:23
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:Let me tell you about the Roman Empire, Alexander the Great or pretty much any other force that conquered larger swathes of land - they were all multinational (or to be more precise multi-ethnical). Hell even Napoleon's Grand Army and Hitler's Wehrmacht were relied on forces from other nations. Alliances, Roman auxiliaries& puppet states armies != An integrated, multinational army in the 21th century I'm thinking more along the lines of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth or how the Chinese military was organized during the warlord period. That's how you do a proper army!
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 12:25
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:Hell even Napoleon's Grand Army and Hitler's Wehrmacht were relied on forces from other nations. 350 000 Frenchmen including Belgians and Dutch people. 98 000 Belorussians, Polish and Lithuanians 35 000 Austrians 25 000 Italians 24 000 Bavarians 20 000 Saxons 20 000 Prussians 17 000 Westphalian 15 000 Swisses 6 000 Portuguese 3 500 Croats Except for the Austrians, Polish and Prussians units the officers were French.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 12:26
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:Let me tell you about the Roman Empire, Alexander the Great or pretty much any other force that conquered larger swathes of land - they were all multinational (or to be more precise multi-ethnical). Hell even Napoleon's Grand Army and Hitler's Wehrmacht were relied on forces from other nations. None of those were also subject to a combined command of all the participating nations on an equal basis.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 12:40
|
|
steinrokkan posted:None of those were also subject to a combined command of all the participating nations on an equal basis. And what makes you believe that this would be the case in an EU army, should the political climate change so much that anyone is actually contemplating an offensive war.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 13:13
|
|
|
For starters, the structure would be such that offensive war would become virtually an impossible affair, I suspect. Which may be a problem for many, but personally I find an arrangement that boosts the defensive credibility while decreasing the externality of posing a threat to foreign countries to be good.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 13:19
|
|
|
I suspect it would mainly be a cash cow everyone fights about - Lot's of jobs and contracts to be given out.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 13:46
|
|
|
The main reasoning behind a unified defense policy since the 90s has been reducing the redundancy in all areas of armed forces and the procurement process. Fighting would exist, and does exist (Airbus, Eurofighter), but that's equally the case with single nation programmes in countries big enough to afford them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 14:00
|
|
|
The Guardian posted:“There must be a threat, there must be a risk, there must be a price, otherwise we will be in negotiations that will not end well and, inevitably, will have economic and human consequences,” the French president said. Brutal.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 14:18
|
|
|
More Euromil news: under the previous government, Poland has selected to buy 50 Caracal helicopters from Airbus. But because the Airbus factory in Poland is in Lodz, which is not a PiS territory, while on the other hand two of Airbus' competitors, Sikorsky and Leonardo-Finmeccanica, have factories in PiSland, the PiS government has made sure the negotiations failed. So now it's official, there won't be any Caracal. The French president had a diplomatic visit planned to Poland on the 13th of the month, but after news that the copter deal was sunk, he canceled it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 16:39
|
|
|
"There will never be another sustained war in europe" Wow its 1911 all over again
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 17:06
|
|
|
There may very well be a war Probably would be a good thing if we didn't start it ourselves, and if we banded to preemptively combine our forces from an outside intrusion.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 17:10
|
|
|
War is a force multiplier and we're at the 500-1,000Million dead stage.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 17:25
|
|
|
LeoMarr posted:War is a force multiplier and we're at the 500-1,000Million dead stage. When is the next level up?
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 17:57
|
|
|
It's actually space aliens that are coming and will invade us, from Mars. War is imminent.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 18:19
|
|
|
Mars needs moms - this anti-abortion bill is making more and more sense!
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 18:25
|
|
|
LeoMarr posted:"There will never be another sustained war in europe" peace or annihilation 
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 00:25
|
|
|
GaussianCopula posted:I highly doubt that Germany will ever need it's military for an article 5 war on European soil. There is simply no way even the most sophisticated military would be able to sustain an occupation of hostile territory in an area as densely populated and developed as Europe. Even Russia is only able to take the parts of the Ukraine that are mostly populated by ethnic Russians. This is at odds with generally accepted expert opinion. Unless we're not counting the Baltics as part of Europe for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 05:20
|
|
|
The Insect Court posted:This is at odds with generally accepted expert opinion. Unless we're not counting the Baltics as part of Europe for some reason. Every time anybody proposes reinforcing NATO forces in the Baltics, an army of Western useful idiots starts screaming about provoking Russia, Western imperialism, spheres of influence, etc. I believe the current consensus among military planners is to rely on a flexible deployment strategy, where the frontlines are only lightly defended (to remove the possibility of accusing NATO from escalating tensions), and instead defense relies on precisely drilled rapid response deployment from deep within NATO territory.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 08:19
|
|
|
There is no NATO response that prevents the baltics from falling to Russia in a fortnight if they really wanted to.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 10:26
|
|
|
Riso posted:There is no NATO response that prevents the baltics from falling to Russia in a fortnight if they really wanted to. There is for taking them back though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 10:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 20:34 |
|
|
steinrokkan posted:I believe the current consensus among military planners is to rely on a flexible deployment strategy, where the frontlines are only lightly defended (to remove the possibility of accusing NATO from escalating tensions), and instead defense relies on precisely drilled rapid response deployment from deep within NATO territory. It's good that the Baltics are getting the full and authentic NATO experience then. During most of the cold war our strategy was to nuke and bomb the everliving poo poo out if the Fulda gap, in hopes of delaying the Soviets long enough for everyone else to mobilize. Germany would have been completely laid to waste for everyone else's benefit. Welcome to NATO, scrubs. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 11:55
|
|