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everyone's going to want to dress up like captain phasma, obviously like remember when ANH came out and all the little kids were dressing up like Grand Moff Tarkin? Such a great figure for kids to look up to
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Oct 7, 2016 15:19
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Actors act on and off the screen.
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Oct 7, 2016 15:20
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temple posted:Actors act on and off the screen. We all wear masks...
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Oct 7, 2016 15:29
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Clawtopsy posted:dreezy, in how many episodes do they talk about zaat, in which episodes, at what times 69, 4:20
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Oct 7, 2016 16:02
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I haven't seen Force Awakens and I don't believe all these Mary Sue things actually happened.
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Oct 7, 2016 16:07
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MariusLecter posted:I haven't seen Force Awakens and I don't believe all these Mary Sue things actually happened. I haven't see it either and I want to believe. what now, scully?
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Oct 7, 2016 16:11
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MariusLecter posted:I haven't seen Force Awakens and I don't believe all these Mary Sue things actually happened. people are mixing up mary sue with that other movie element discussed in the original phantom menace review: the protagoneist
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Oct 7, 2016 16:16
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Guy Goodbody posted:We all wear masks... I am thou... Thou art I... From the sea of thy soul, I come... AAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSSS
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Oct 7, 2016 16:18
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She's a Mary Sue, so is Tom Cruise in most of his movies, so are most protagonists in most action movies today. Just because it has become normalized doesn't mean its a good thing.
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Oct 7, 2016 16:31
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Tom Cruise is a mary sue specifically cause he demands it though. No fault to any director or script writer.
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Oct 7, 2016 16:36
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Libelous Slander posted:but she never takes her helmet off I didn't even know it was Brienne. I don't even remember that character, I just thought it was supposed to be some nameless stormtrooper goon.
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Oct 7, 2016 17:28
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I like Poe Dameron, they should make movies about him
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Oct 7, 2016 17:42
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Space Camp fuckup posted:I like Poe Dameron, they should make movies about him 
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Oct 7, 2016 17:47
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I'd argue that Batman, Jason Bourne, Frank Underwood, and Liam Neeson are all Mary Sues. I find the hyper-competent Sue way more annoying than the self-insert Sue. And Rey isn't really either. Also, that bitching about Mary Sues is a lame and lazy avenue of film criticism, and that's why old-timey film critics as well as RLM didn't go there. Also, gently caress Max Landis; he's just annoying.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:00
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Power Fantasy characters aren't Mary Sues.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:14
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Nothing is mary sue, everything is mary sue
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Oct 7, 2016 18:22
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Rey is a Mary Sue.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:23
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Junkfist posted:Rey is a Mary Sue.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:24
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Junkfist posted:Rey is a Mary Sue. spoilers?!
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Oct 7, 2016 18:24
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KakerMix posted:Starship Troopers was badass when I thought it was a weird future-war movie when I was in middle school. My friends and I loving loved it. Then later when I read the actual book Starship Troopers and got into the whole whacked-out author and his ideas on government and poo poo and Verhoeven ripping into that dude and the movie was a result of that I loved it even more. Goddamn Starship Troopers is ace.  Except I'm a dumb so I didn't realize it was satire until the AVClub analysis
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Oct 7, 2016 18:36
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It is satire, it is also played straight for most of the movie. Like that awesome bug-siege of that fortress
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Oct 7, 2016 18:38
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Echo Chamber posted:I'd argue that Batman, Jason Bourne, Frank Underwood, and Liam Neeson are all Mary Sues. I find the hyper-competent Sue way more annoying than the self-insert Sue. And Rey isn't really either. Batman was trained, Jason Bourne was trained, Frank Underwood is already high up in politics when the show begins, Liam Neeson was probably trained in acting but he might just be a natural talent with a great voice.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:44
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Maximum Landis.
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Oct 7, 2016 19:16
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I think part of the issue with Rey is that if she'd been hyper-competent, but unique, it would have been a little annoying but fine. But since the whole movie is a thinly-veiled attempt to leech off the first three movies' credibility, Rey's use of the force directly apes Luke's and so she looks like a pathetic knock-off rather than her own character. There are a lot of interesting things you can do with the force, and introducing some new abilities would probably have given the filmmakers the freedom to introduce her learning them organically.
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Oct 7, 2016 19:18
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Luke was kinda whiney and made some not-perfect choices and had some development. I liked Rey but she's just perfect in every way. She's already some how nearly perfectly trained simply as a natural, she always has the perfect quip (very important in movies today!), she's never selfish and always does the right good thing. She's fun and nice and cool though so her being a Mary Sue isn't really that bad and shows that it's not some scarlet letter, a Mary Sue when done well can be fine.
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Oct 7, 2016 19:26
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Starship Troopers is good on both levels, that's what makes Paul Verhoeven such a genius. The same applies to Robocop.
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Oct 7, 2016 19:39
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Script people don't realize that not every character is clever enough to machine gun out one-liners and execs don't care because bite sized catchphrases are more profitable than action figures
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Oct 7, 2016 19:42
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Yeah saying "oh but it's satire" is not an excuse for the movie being bad. It doesn't matter if Lucas was operating on 9 levels of irony when he made eps 1-3 as satire, they're still garbage movies. Robocop and Starship troopers are loving great movies, and the satire is just an extra layer that makes that poo poo even better.
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Oct 7, 2016 19:44
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I guess Rey really is a Mary Sue, because I really can't think of any flaws she has.
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Oct 7, 2016 19:44
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Capntastic posted:Script people don't realize that not every character is clever enough to machine gun out one-liners and execs don't care because bite sized catchphrases are more profitable than action figures There are a lot of writers who struggle to write different voices for their characters. Because scripts are then handed to a director and a bunch of actors to bring the scripts to life, I suspect a lot of screenplay writers struggle even more with learning this.
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Oct 7, 2016 19:45
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Gammatron 64 posted:I guess Rey really is a Mary Sue, because I really can't think of any flaws she has. Orphan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruhKoJBVKYs&t=12s
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Oct 7, 2016 19:47
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verhoeven is just the best. can't believe they haven't re:viewed one of his films yet. preferably showgirls.
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Oct 7, 2016 19:55
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Gammatron 64 posted:I guess Rey really is a Mary Sue, because I really can't think of any flaws she has. She is initially stubborn and combative, and as the film goes on she begins to rely on the help of others and works with others as a team. It's not much. But there is some character progression, adequate enough for a silly action movie with magic and space.
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Oct 7, 2016 20:02
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Junkfist posted:Rey is a Mary Sue. the thing that bothered me with Rey is that she was just too competent with the force. i know a lot of people have spoken about this, but whatever. its not just that she figured out she could use the force; like fine, maybe she had an inclination. but its the fact that she knew how to use it, as in literally the specific ways of force manipulation, without any training. the whole mind control thing was way too much and even pulling the lightsaber from the snow was too much for me. luke doing it in empire was supposed to show that he had some training and was just learning basic functions. he even struggles with it a bunch and has to really focus to do it. it feels like he's trying to tap into an ancient space magic thing which makes the reward so much better for something so simple. with rey, she just is able to do all this stuff that we as an audience know are really cool but it ultimately robs "the force" of any kind of impressive mystery. instead its more like a video game where we read it as "oh, she just starts out at level 3 cuz she's special." edit: verhoeven rules
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Oct 7, 2016 20:06
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Rey never learned to work with a team her faults were not listening to people telling her how awesome she is and that one time she couldn't close a door right that's it.
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Oct 7, 2016 20:10
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Chucat posted:If Rey just didn't mindtrick that guy completely out of nowhere then I don't think I'd mind the character at all, but she does, so it's just...huh. I honestly don't have a problem with it, makes the Force seem more Zen. Like, more instinct than technique. "Do or do not, there is no try." Luke had trouble with Jedi tricks at first because he was overthinking it. If you want Jedi mind tricks to be this refined skill then go back to the Jedi kindergarten in the prequels because that's the logical conclusion.
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Oct 7, 2016 20:11
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None of these complaints would be valid if they had like one little scene showing her using the force when scavenging, like force pulling a piece of junk towards her or using the force to swing on her rope to grab some junk. Like just set up that she was aware of the force in some way and instantly her Mary sue card is revoked.
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Oct 7, 2016 20:12
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I must be in the category of 'bad nerd' cause it always bothered me that Luke suddenly knew how to use the force to move things in Empire. I didn't equate Force with Telekinesis. Same for when he did that super-jump during the Vader fight, but then he had the excuse of training with Yoda.
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Oct 7, 2016 20:16
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If Rey's characterization seems hollow it's because all we learn of her is "junk scavenger" and she had no other characters to communicate woth before the plot kicks up. Compare to Luke who is a poor teenager who collects model spaceships and dirtbikes with his friends when he can skip out on farm chores. If anything Rey living in abject poverty should have provided more opportunities to drum up sympathy but they portrayed her as a stoic, working class schmuck who has no real goals or aspirations.
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Oct 7, 2016 20:18
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Mr. Jive posted:I honestly don't have a problem with it, makes the Force seem more Zen. Like, more instinct than technique. "Do or do not, there is no try." Luke had trouble with Jedi tricks at first because he was overthinking it. If you want Jedi mind tricks to be this refined skill then go back to the Jedi kindergarten in the prequels because that's the logical conclusion. except that the whole original trilogy, the one we all like, was about luke searching for someone to teach him the ways of the force. you know, teacher characters like "obi wan kenobi" and "yoda." its already established that its something that requires a teacher, training, and years of practice.
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Oct 7, 2016 20:18
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