Mierenneuker posted:My impression as an foreigner is that there's a lot of voting against their interests in American politics, mainly on the Republican side. Ding ding ding! We have a winner! One of my "favorite" cases of this is convincing poor people that repealing or drastically lowering inheiritance taxes (which typically only affect upper-class families) is the smart thing to do.
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Oct 8, 2016 21:46
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welp
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Oct 8, 2016 21:51
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As someone else said, those who continue to stand by him won't be swayed by any scandal. They just double down. I'd at least understand if they were super-scared of a Clinton win and thus support the lesser of two evils. But the people on my fb feed are actually doubling down, saying how this is normal for all men and everyone does it.
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Oct 8, 2016 22:03
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TotalLossBrain posted:As someone else said, those who continue to stand by him won't be swayed by any scandal. Question from a stupid Brit? Who are his supporters? Surely he's said and done stuff that should have pissed off every demographic by now?
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Oct 8, 2016 22:28
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TotalLossBrain posted:As someone else said, those who continue to stand by him won't be swayed by any scandal. They just double down. What I find the worst about it is how extremely juvenile the "debate" is. The response to "Let's talk about [disgusting thing Trump did/said" is always "BUT HILLARY". Or like Trump's "apology" which immediately goes "BUT BILL CLINTON" (who isn't running for President so who cares?  ) They never actually respond to any criticism, it's all just "but Hillary did/said.." like you're arguing with a 6 year old.As someone who's not American, watching all of this just feels unreal.
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Oct 8, 2016 22:40
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spog posted:Question from a stupid Brit? People who repeatedly fall for pyramid and multilevel marketing schemes.
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Oct 8, 2016 22:46
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spog posted:Question from a stupid Brit? My in-laws, for one (who have fallen for pyramid schemes, lol). Pretty much every "Christian" I know. They refuse to look closely at the character issues because their first concern is not voting for any (D) on the ticket. Some others - who I credit for at least thinking a bit more - claim to vote based on issues and that they're holding their nose about the character. Issues like borders, taxes, etc. Still others are mad at perceived injustices HRC has committed and just want her gone. Besides, who are they going to support instead at this point? They can't admit they were wrong in supporting Trump, so straight ahead they go.
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Oct 8, 2016 22:47
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spog posted:Question from a stupid Brit? Remember back in June when a bunch of you guys voted on something incredibly stupid and your currency is still trending downward at record rates as a result? It's like that, except our guy's wig isn't powdered.
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Oct 8, 2016 22:51
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TotalLossBrain posted:My in-laws, for one (who have fallen for pyramid schemes, lol). Pretty much every "Christian" I know. They refuse to look closely at the character issues because their first concern is not voting for any (D) on the ticket. Which is odd because while Hillary doesn't have a big religious presence Trump is diametrically opposed to all things good.
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Oct 8, 2016 22:54
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spog posted:Question from a stupid Brit? You ever have one of those friends who are so spitefully dumb they would drink spoiled milk just because you told them it was a bad idea to do it, then call you a pussy for not drinking it from the bathroom where he was puking and making GBS threads himself for the next two hours? It's that guy. A whole nation of that guy.
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Oct 8, 2016 22:58
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Mierenneuker posted:My impression as an foreigner is that there's a lot of voting against their interests in American politics, mainly on the Republican side.
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Oct 8, 2016 23:10
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syscall girl posted:Which is odd because while Hillary doesn't have a big religious presence Trump is diametrically opposed to all things good. But Trump doesn't have (D) next to his name.
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Oct 8, 2016 23:22
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I feel like some of the best schadenfreude out of this has to be on WikiLeaks, who happened to release their Hilary Clinton "October surprise" bundle on the exact same day as the pussy grabber tape popped up and nobody even noticed.
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Oct 8, 2016 23:26
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spog posted:Question from a stupid Brit? Setting aside the obvious "very stupid and very racist" answer, it's mainly white and poor. It's people who have bought the line that the people not like them are undermining the country, the ones who have bought into the line that the Democrats are vile beasts who will tear apart the country given half the chance, the ones convinced that they're being marginalized by the changing nature of the United States (and I don't just mean ethnically there). They are the endpoint of twenty years of an extreme propaganda campaign that has grown far out of control of its original creators.
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Oct 8, 2016 23:29
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Slugnoid posted:I feel like some of the best schadenfreude out of this has to be on WikiLeaks, who happened to release their Hilary Clinton "October surprise" bundle on the exact same day as the pussy grabber tape popped up and nobody even noticed. And if they hadn’t faked people out with their early morning “surprise” fund drive earlier in the week, they could have had a few days of coverage.
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Oct 8, 2016 23:48
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i have learnt a lot, thank you. Edit: our media coverage of this has been 'Christ, guess what this idiot is doing now' -but nothing about why he was ever considered a serious candidate in the first place. spog has a new favorite as of 00:00 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 8, 2016 23:48
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Here's something to maybe feel a little better about: I skimmed over comments on these stories at Fox and there are surprisingly large numbers of commenters professing to jump ship (and vote independent, write-in, whatever). I mean - sure, there are plenty of them who double down. I think Trump's last hope has sailed.
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Oct 8, 2016 23:50
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TotalLossBrain posted:Here's something to maybe feel a little better about : I skimmed over comments on these stories at Fox and there are surprisingly large numbers of commenters professing to jump ship (and vote independent, write-in, whatever). But how do you know they are not simply paid posters hired by Clinton? 
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Oct 8, 2016 23:51
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Oct 8, 2016 23:59
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Azhais posted:Like the two old ladies that were talking while I was waiting for an oil change last week, discussing how they were going to vote for Trump because Hillary was a crook that never paid taxes on the Clinton Foundation, a 501(c)(3) charity. This right here is reason enough to not let seniors vote or drive after a certain age. Jesus Christ.
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Oct 9, 2016 00:00
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BOOTY-ADE posted:This right here is reason enough to not let seniors vote or drive after a certain age. Jesus Christ. Except a significant number of people under 65 feel the same way.
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Oct 9, 2016 00:03
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spog posted:i have learnt a lot, thank you. As bad as Trump is, I couldn’t make a strong argument that there was a better candidate in the Republican field. They all had huge problems.
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Oct 9, 2016 00:04
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Platystemon posted:And if they hadn’t faked people out with their early morning “surprise” fund drive earlier in the week, they could have had a few days of coverage. Doesn't help that 1. hacks from Guccifer 2.0 et al have included faked data and therefore aren't reliable, and 2. it's known that Julian Assange has a massive hate-boner for the US and will do or say anything he thinks will harm the US as a result. (And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if he were secretly being paid by the Russians.)
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Oct 9, 2016 00:38
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Cruz was probably the only person the GOP heads hated even more than Trump for leading the government shutdowns, Rubio felt like the most tacked on "we've got minority outreach!" candidate possible, Christie would've been eaten alive for actually trying to work with Obama for Hurricane Sandy recovery, Fiorina would've been sunk by her lovely business record for HP if she'd lasted much longer into the primaries, Carson was... Carson, and Bush had the double-whammy of being the most tepid candidate and being related to Dubya.
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Oct 9, 2016 00:49
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Its incredible to me the aura of old school gender roles stuff that I pick up on with people who are even younger than me. Young women who still want to be treated like its the 50s, I've seen this in the wild. Its like stockholm syndrome or something, not everyone feels comfortable disrupting the status quo even if they have a giant invitation.
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Oct 9, 2016 00:55
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With any luck, we are seeing the death throes of the current Republican party Maybe they can start a new party that is for the wealthy, but minus all the Jesus bullshit, I could live with that, something like a 1920s style GOP
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Oct 9, 2016 01:35
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BOOTY-ADE posted:This right here is reason enough to not let seniors vote or drive after a certain age. Jesus Christ. Hmm yes
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Oct 9, 2016 01:56
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Kangarookie posted:Hmm yes More like old... Oh.  More like old"oldpainless"less?
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Oct 9, 2016 02:03
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Kangarookie posted:Hmm yes More like "canned-a-running-joke-ie"
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Oct 9, 2016 02:16
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ElGroucho posted:With any luck, we are seeing the death throes of the current Republican party VOTE WHIG IN 2020!
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Oct 9, 2016 02:37
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More like Robot Nixon. This country is ready.
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Oct 9, 2016 03:04
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For the non-Americans, one of the fundamental problems we have is the hyper-polarized nature of the American two-party system, and the polarization is most visible on the right wing. Trump (and Romney before him) is a product of the GOP primary election, where he did well. There were more reasonable, traditional Republicans in the primary who would likely be doing much better in the general and would probably strike most American liberals as disappointing but understandable if they won - this was Huntsman last election and Kasich this time. But the same things that make them appealing in the general (i.e. not being frothing loonies) are the same things that torpedoed them in the primary. Romney and Trump both won the primaries essentially by being everyone's second or third choice - not all that many people really wanted them to win, but they were the last men standing. Romney tried to immediately pivot back to the middle to strike a more general classical Republican position and was hated by a non-trivial amount of conservatives for the swing while not really impressing liberals. Being up against Campaign Obama finished him. Trump is taking the opposite tack and going full hog crazy, and it's... not really working for him. There's three main wings to the GOP, essentially: the FYGM big business plutocrats, the "why can't we turn things back to Leave It To Beaver" social conservatives, and the isolationist racist xenophobes. These divisions have not been getting along well lately despite any one of them being too weak to stand on its own and their internecine violence has been severely weakening the party as a monolithic entity. US politics are likely heading for a major political realignment in the next decade or two, and it's going to be interesting (and probably a tad horrifying) to see how it shakes out.
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Oct 9, 2016 03:49
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poptart_fairy posted:Of all the stuff he's done and said it's something ten years ago which makes a bunch of his supporters snap? This is a lot less deniable than a lot of the other stuff he's said. It's really hard to rephrase "grab 'em by the pussy" and "when you're a star they let you do it" into something acceptable. In terms of dogwhistles, this is the fabled "friend of the family friend of the family friend of the family" that they were supposed to be multiple steps of abstraction away from at this point. The fact that his response has been an unfortunately transparent one-sentence pseudo-apology, followed by a full minute of mashing out the four chords of conservative campaigning, may have also opened some eyes. A lot of his supporters believe in a particular kind of conservative vision of America, and one of the main features of that vision is total, abject denial of how poorly women were and still are treated- remember, back in My Day we Respected Women and they Respected Themselves, unlike Today's Tramps (get off my lawn!). For him to have ever outright stated "Yeah I can actually just molest beautiful women and get away with it because I'm famous" makes it clear that he was a loving monster, even to their blinded eyes. And recall, these are the guys for whom the proper response to all crime is a life sentence- they don't believe in rehabilitation or reconciliation, they believe entirely in retribution with an almost Calvinist flair. A bad guy is A Bad Guy, always has been, always will be. Trump just killed off all of his female support and a lot of his male support- as chauvinistic as the conservative male mindset is, one of the really core things it clings to- part of what Prester Jane would call its "inner narrative"- is an idea of chivalry, that there are predatory people from whom women must be protected, including evil fat ugly old men who use their status and money to force young, vulnerable women to do things. Trump just made it really, painfully clear that he is one of those people. Somfin has a new favorite as of 04:05 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 04:03
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Final score: 78-0 
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Oct 9, 2016 04:13
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Somfin posted:This is a lot less deniable than a lot of the other stuff he's said. It's really hard to rephrase "grab 'em by the pussy" and "when you're a star they let you do it" into something acceptable. In terms of dogwhistles, this is the fabled "friend of the family friend of the family friend of the family" that they were supposed to be multiple steps of abstraction away from at this point. The fact that his response has been an unfortunately transparent one-sentence pseudo-apology, followed by a full minute of mashing out the four chords of conservative campaigning, may have also opened some eyes. I feel like this all makes sense and I hope you're right, but I have a weird feeling that no matter how much outrage we see on the news over this, it won't make a big dent in the actual voting numbers. The way people are doubling down lately it's going to come out like "The media is just trying to bring him down, now even his allies are abandoning him, that means we have to fight even harder!" One guy I know, who constantly rails on about how The Greatest Generation all lived to 90 because they ate red meat and smoked and drank and he guarantees Steve Jobs wouldn't have got pancreatic cancer if it weren't for all that hippy veggie crap he ate, no look it up, he knows doctors who said this, yadda yadda—his attitude toward all these revelations is going to be along the lines of "Well that just means he's a red-blooded American male, about time we had someone up there who actually showed he has some balls".
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Oct 9, 2016 04:31
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Data Graham posted:I feel like this all makes sense and I hope you're right, but I have a weird feeling that no matter how much outrage we see on the news over this, it won't make a big dent in the actual voting numbers. The way people are doubling down lately it's going to come out like "The media is just trying to bring him down, now even his allies are abandoning him, that means we have to fight even harder!" He's not the one who needs this revelation. Hardcores gonna hardcore, apologists gonna apologize. What we need is to make sure that unmotivated straight-ticket R voters have even less motivation to actually cast their vote for The Walking Trumpster Fire on the day. Make sure that they can't reconcile "I'm a good person" with "I'm putting the one vote that I am allowed to cast every four years toward someone like that."
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Oct 9, 2016 04:40
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If you want to understand why Trump still has a very good shot at winning the Presidency, even after this, read Hillbilly Elegy. Never underestimate the scope and scale of our ignorant, disenfranchised former laborers. To them, even though Trump realistically isn't going to do anything to improve their situation (and would likely make it worse), he represents their last great hope to be powerful and important in their own little worlds. Hate and fear and xenophobia aren't going to make anything anywhere any better, but when that's all you have to keep you warm at night you hold on to it.
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Oct 9, 2016 04:43
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Chichevache posted:Final score: 78-0 I guess I'm having steak this week.
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Oct 9, 2016 04:48
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NeurosisHead posted:Hillbilly Elegy Seconding this, this is an incredibly good book.
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Oct 9, 2016 05:07
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Henchman of Santa posted:Except a significant number of people under 65 feel the same way. First they confuse the gas with the brake and take out a storefront, now they confuse Trump with a human being. If that's not proof of dementia and/or insanity, I dunno what the gently caress any more
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Oct 9, 2016 05:09
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