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Oct 9, 2016 08:07
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So guys. At my job we have a somewhat large and very deep vat of varnish we use to dip sealed coils in sometimes. I'm curious, what would happen if you fell in. Let's assume you grab the edge and yank yourself out pretty quickly, so up to your upper body. The only thing I've heard at work is "Don't fall into that, you'll sink straight to the bottom". Which is weird, as it's pretty thick so I'm having a hard time imagining it being less dense than water. We use xylene a lot as well, maybe they confused what happens when you fall into varnish with xylene instead. Either way, I wonder about this every single time I dip a job and it's pretty hard to google. I'm guessing how hosed you are depends on how readily varnish can absorb through your skin. e: http://www.temcoindustrialpower.com/product_selection.html?p=insulating_varnish_overview this kind of stuff specifically Drunk Driver Dad fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 08:54
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Drunk Driver Dad posted:So guys. At my job we have a somewhat large and very deep vat of varnish we use to dip sealed coils in sometimes. I'm curious, what would happen if you fell in. Let's assume you grab the edge and yank yourself out pretty quickly, so up to your upper body. The only thing I've heard at work is "Don't fall into that, you'll sink straight to the bottom". Which is weird, as it's pretty thick so I'm having a hard time imagining it being less dense than water. We use xylene a lot as well, maybe they confused what happens when you fall into varnish with xylene instead. Either way, I wonder about this every single time I dip a job and it's pretty hard to google. I'm guessing how hosed you are depends on how readily varnish can absorb through your skin. 
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Oct 9, 2016 09:40
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IPCRESS posted:I've never understood this argument when it's been put to me. It is essentially "Some people run red lights or stop signs, therefor every intersection needs to be rebuilt as a cloverleaf". If anything, red light cameras increase accidents. Idiots see the camera flash and slam on their brakes. E: Oh gently caress I somehow ended up a few pages behind. Looks like I'm the idiot.
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Oct 9, 2016 09:43
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loving hell
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Oct 9, 2016 09:43
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I looked up a MSDS at 3M and maybe they were talking about how huffing this stuff is a bad idea and if you're up to your armpits in it and fail to hold your breath you might cough out uncontrollably and sink that way.
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Oct 9, 2016 09:50
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Drunk Driver Dad posted:So guys. At my job we have a somewhat large and very deep vat of varnish we use to dip sealed coils in sometimes. I'm curious, what would happen if you fell in. Let's assume you grab the edge and yank yourself out pretty quickly, so up to your upper body. The only thing I've heard at work is "Don't fall into that, you'll sink straight to the bottom". Which is weird, as it's pretty thick so I'm having a hard time imagining it being less dense than water. We use xylene a lot as well, maybe they confused what happens when you fall into varnish with xylene instead. Either way, I wonder about this every single time I dip a job and it's pretty hard to google. I'm guessing how hosed you are depends on how readily varnish can absorb through your skin. Is the vat agitated in any way? Back in 9th grade my science class toured the local sewage treatment plant, and the guys there told us not to fall in the giant vats of bubbling sewage water, because the bubblers would interfere with buoyancy and you'd drop like a stone to the bottom, no chance of swimming out. They could have been messing with us, of course. But if the varnish is agitated to keep it from hardening or separating or whatever, I can see that interfering with your ability to float.
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Oct 9, 2016 10:11
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Nah. It just sits, you have to stir it up to remove the film that accumulates on the surface, actually. I was mostly just asking out of curiosity. It's hard to not wonder about that when a vat of liquid is sitting right there in front of you while you work. On another note, a guy at work pressed his hand....barely. It's a press with a front and back bar that squeezes from the sides, and a top plate that pushes down from the top. It's a piece of poo poo and if you press it with nothing in it, it'll jam closed. I told him to hit a certain spot with a rubber mallet to free it up, but he put his hands on the back bar to the side to try and jiggle it loose. He purposely hit the pedal thinking that would help, and totally forgot about the top plate and it came down but just barely pinched his skin. It was bruised and swollen but that was all. I'm guessing it wasn't even a full pinch, otherwise his skin probably would have burst and there would be more blood.
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Oct 9, 2016 10:29
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Drunk Driver Dad posted:Nah. It just sits, you have to stir it up to remove the film that accumulates on the surface, actually. I was mostly just asking out of curiosity. It's hard to not wonder about that when a vat of liquid is sitting right there in front of you while you work. Are you making transformers, (electrical) reactors, motors, or generators? The rewind shop I was at had the huge dip tanks as well as a vacuum tank for vacuum-impregnating the resin in the stator coils. Good quality class-F insulation. I think the biggest machines they were making were around 20000 HP, 13.8kV so you need to make sure the stator windings have the corona taping and everything is VPIed well. http://youtu.be/_65mXQ-GNVM They are rewinding a medium voltage wound-rotor induction motor here and they have the VPI tank halfway through the video. Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 12:42
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 I was incredibly surprised to find out this wasn't in Australia.
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Oct 9, 2016 13:33
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Gorilla Salad posted:
 FOD HAZARD
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Oct 9, 2016 13:41
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Drunk Driver Dad posted:So guys. At my job we have a somewhat large and very deep vat of varnish we use to dip sealed coils in sometimes. I'm curious, what would happen if you fell in. Let's assume you grab the edge and yank yourself out pretty quickly, so up to your upper body. The only thing I've heard at work is "Don't fall into that, you'll sink straight to the bottom". Which is weird, as it's pretty thick so I'm having a hard time imagining it being less dense than water. We use xylene a lot as well, maybe they confused what happens when you fall into varnish with xylene instead. Either way, I wonder about this every single time I dip a job and it's pretty hard to google. I'm guessing how hosed you are depends on how readily varnish can absorb through your skin. It probably depends on the specific varnish formulation you're using. I found this page of Durostick commercial varnishes, and their densities range from 0.9 to 1.0 g/mL. My guess is that while you probably wouldn't sink like a stone, you also would not float and staying on top of it would quickly exhaust you, particularly while having to breath the solvent vapors. My recommendation would be to avoid falling in.
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Oct 9, 2016 17:25
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I would imagine falling into a vat of poly would kinda be like trying to get out of a vat of honey. I'd imagine falling into a vat of xylene would give you every kind cancer known to man head to toe.
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Oct 9, 2016 19:05
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Modus Pwnens posted:If anything, red light cameras increase accidents. Idiots see the camera flash and slam on their brakes. Or they are like me, and they're driving along, about to cross through a very wide (7 lanes both ways) intersection at the legal limit of 50mph, when the light turns yellow. My driving experience tells me to continue through because it's unsafe to stop at the speed I'm going with the distance I have to the intersection, and if the light turns red when I'm 2/3 of the way through, well, that's an undesirable but common part of driving. But this time there's a huge prominent sign right beside the light that says RED LIGHT VIOLATION $437 MINIMUM FINE and I have no idea if that means "entering the intersection after it's red" or "being in the intersection after it's red" and I certainly don't want to find out, so after a half-second glance in the rear view mirror to check that there's no one behind, I slam on the brakes, lock the wheels, and slide thirty feet to a stop, in the middle of the pedestrian crosswalk but not yet in the intersection proper. I am not proud of that incident, but seriously gently caress anything that encourages one sort of dangerous driving to theoretically prevent another.
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Oct 9, 2016 19:57
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Sagebrush posted:very wide (7 lanes both ways) intersection
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Oct 9, 2016 20:46
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Sagebrush posted:Or they are like me, and they're driving along, about to cross through a very wide (7 lanes both ways) intersection at the legal limit of 50mph, when the light turns yellow. My driving experience tells me to continue through because it's unsafe to stop at the speed I'm going with the distance I have to the intersection, and if the light turns red when I'm 2/3 of the way through, well, that's an undesirable but common part of driving. if you are past the white line when the light turns red you're good
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Oct 9, 2016 20:48
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Drunk Driver Dad posted:So guys. At my job we have a somewhat large and very deep vat of varnish we use to dip sealed coils in sometimes. I'm curious, what would happen if you fell in. Let's assume you grab the edge and yank yourself out pretty quickly, so up to your upper body. The only thing I've heard at work is "Don't fall into that, you'll sink straight to the bottom". Which is weird, as it's pretty thick so I'm having a hard time imagining it being less dense than water. We use xylene a lot as well, maybe they confused what happens when you fall into varnish with xylene instead. Either way, I wonder about this every single time I dip a job and it's pretty hard to google. I'm guessing how hosed you are depends on how readily varnish can absorb through your skin. There's an MSDS right on the website you linked. Eyes: Liquid causes pain on contact, with excess blinking discharge. There will be moderately severe conjunctivitis seen (redness and swelling of the conjunctiva.) Corneal damage may occur. Skin: May cause allergic skin reaction. Prolonged contact may result in discoloration, swelling, scaling, and/or blistering. May be harmful if absorbed through skin. May produce central nervous system depression with headache and/or nausea. Ingestion: Exposure can result in irritation and corrosive act ion in the mouth, stomach tissue and digestive tract. Inhalation: High concentrations of vapors may be irritating to the respiratory tract. May affect the brain or nervous system, causing dizziness, headache, or nausea. Absorption of 2-Butoxyethanol by inhalation and/or repeated skin contact may cause injury to liver, kidney and blood damage. 2-Butoxyethanol is considered fetotoxic; has caused toxic reproductive effects in laboratory animals at maternally toxic doses. The good news is: No component of this product present at levels greater than or equal to 0.1% is identifed as a carcinogen or potential carcinogen by OSHA. Also, it's density is 1,076 kg/m3, so, more dense than water, but only slightly so. edit: If that isn't the exact product you use at work, there should be an MSDS located near the tank for the specific product which you could flip through in your spare time. Sammus fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 20:59
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Mithaldu posted:Would love to see a google maps example of that. https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4403351,-111.9263385,81m/data=!3m1!1e3
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Oct 9, 2016 21:07
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That one is pretty clear. I've seen a few where the white "after here you're on the intersection" markers are missing, but that one has them all. And it applies the same as for pedestrians to cars: You're ok to enter the thing as long as it's not red. To be honest, sounds more like your complaint is with traffic education and less with the cameras.
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Oct 9, 2016 21:20
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Sagebrush posted:Or they are like me, and they're driving along, about to cross through a very wide (7 lanes both ways) intersection at the legal limit of 50mph, when the light turns yellow. My driving experience tells me to continue through because it's unsafe to stop at the speed I'm going with the distance I have to the intersection, and if the light turns red when I'm 2/3 of the way through, well, that's an undesirable but common part of driving. Wear a mask when you drive. They can't prove it was you driving your car.
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Oct 9, 2016 21:23
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Mithaldu posted:That one is pretty clear. I've seen a few where the white "after here you're on the intersection" markers are missing, but that one has them all. And it applies the same as for pedestrians to cars: You're ok to enter the thing as long as it's not red. That wasn't the exact intersection, it was just a similar one I could quickly find. I can't remember where the specific one was as it was several years ago. I do agree that there isn't enough education about how, exactly, a red-light camera decides whether you violated the law or not. They didn't exist when I got my driver's license, so it was never covered; in Canada, where I got my license, it's technically illegal to be in the intersection while the light is red (at all) unless you're turning left; and the red-light camera companies have a vested interest in ensuring that no one knows how they work, because they take a percentage of all ticket revenues. It's just a hosed up situation all around. FogHelmut posted:Wear a mask when you drive. They can't prove it was you driving your car. A guy in Phoenix did this for a couple of years as an act of civil disobedience. He put on a gorilla mask and drove at high speed past automated speed traps, and then contested every ticket with "that's not me, a gorilla had stolen my car." The state spent more than $50,000 hiring private investigators to try and catch him putting on the mask on the same day as a recorded incident. Eventually they lost, and combined with other complaints about illegally shortened yellow times etc., all of the cameras are now in the process of being removed. 
Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 22:37
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Sagebrush posted:illegally shortened yellow times This is the *real* issue with red light cams, imo. Once a yellow is too short to stop for safely, all hell breaks loose (ie: lots more rear-ending accidents)
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Oct 9, 2016 22:49
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Sagebrush posted:A guy in Phoenix did this for a couple of years as an act of civil disobedience. He put on a gorilla mask and drove at high speed past automated speed traps, and then contested every ticket with "that's not me, a gorilla had stolen my car." The state spent more than $50,000 hiring private investigators to try and catch him putting on the mask on the same day as a recorded incident. Eventually they lost, and combined with other complaints about illegally shortened yellow times etc., all of the cameras are now in the process of being removed. There's a bit more to it than that. Recently the state AG issued an opinion that since state law requires people who collect evidence to be used in criminal trials to be private investigators, with a license, and that since that's exactly what the people who work for the photo enforcement companies are doing, those people need to get PI licenses. So the cameras are still up, and are still flashing and taking pictures, but no tickets are being issued (except in Paradise Valley because gently caress you that's why). The legal aspects of photo enforcement are pretty troublesome. For a criminal charge, you have the right to confront your accuser, so who's the accuser when a robot takes your picture? Some random dude at the company who mails out a ticket? Lots of courts didn't like that, so states started routing the ticket past a cop who'd sign off on it. But now if you go to court you have the right to confront the cop. "Did you sign this ticket?" "Yes." "Did you witness the infraction?" "No." "Do you know if the camera was properly calibrated?" "No." "Can you testify the sensor was in proper working order?" "No." And so on. So the usual way this was gotten around was to turn the camera ticket into just an administrative fine, like a parking ticket, and not a criminal violation. And in a lot of cases this was just a fine levied by the private company operating the camera, so in those cases "gently caress you, I'm not paying" was a legally legitimate avenue for the recipient to take. So a bunch of states just gave the hell up on the cameras because the only one making any money off them was the company operating the camera, the municipalities in a lot of cases weren't seeing anything.
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Oct 9, 2016 22:53
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Well, how is it handled in Europe? The UK has a generally similar justice system to ours and they have cameras all over the place. Including those average-speed deals that take your picture at the onramp and the exit and levy a fine for implied behavior, without actually measuring your speed directly at any time. I don't know if in the UK you have the right to confront your accuser, but surely someone has tried the same general "who actually witnessed the crime/how can this be proven" line of questioning in a UK court?
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Oct 9, 2016 22:57
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Phanatic posted:So a bunch of states just gave the hell up on the cameras because the only one making any money off them was the company operating the camera, the municipalities in a lot of cases weren't seeing anything. Sagebrush posted:Well, how is it handled in Europe? The UK has a generally similar justice system to ours and they have cameras all over the place. Including those average-speed deals that take your picture at the onramp and the exit and levy a fine for implied behavior, without actually measuring your speed directly at any time. In germany they want your points too so they use dual cameras (one for your plate, one for your face). evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 23:09
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You make the mistake in thinking these are installed for safety. They were viewed more as revenue generation for the city/township. Hence all the fuckery with traffic light timing.
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Oct 9, 2016 23:35
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flosofl posted:You make the mistake in thinking these are installed for safety. They were viewed more as revenue generation for the city/township. Hence all the fuckery with traffic light timing.
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Oct 9, 2016 23:50
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evil_bunnY posted:This is so loving dumb. Excessive speed is a major contributing factor to road fatalities, Ah, bullshit. It's speed differential that is the major contributor, but here in the US municipalities depend on ticket fees for a bunch of their income. So instead of doing what traffic engineers know we should do, set speed limits at the 85th percentile speed (the speed at which 85% of traffic moves at or below, which maximizes compliance and safety), we set speed limits artificially low purely so we can ticket speeders. So you wind up with people determined to go the speed limit, no matter what, ignoring the fact that they're going 15 miles below the flow of traffic in the left hand lane, forcing everyone to slow down and swerve to avoid them. It's retarded. If you want people to drive slower, then build the road that way, with chicanes and other traffic calming devices that will lower the 85th percentile speed on that road, and set the speed limit appropriately. A 55mph speed limit on a modern highway is beyond stupid. Going to England and driving on roads with appropriately-set speed limits is a goddamned revelation.
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Oct 9, 2016 23:51
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Phanatic posted:
55mph would suck as an upper limit but i can say with confidence that even with a 70mph limit everyone routinely drives at 80 to 85 on the motorway.
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Oct 10, 2016 00:25
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There is an intersection with a lovely design in Austin that includes a red light camera. A real ticket revenue trap. The light itself is unusual because it's an overpass and it doesn't give you enough time to cross the bridge. It's the only overpass I've driven in Texas where you get the green to enter a bridge without a green held for you at the other side. So that's unexpected. The light itself is hidden up amongst some trees on the other side of the intersection. So you're not likely to see it. I sailed through the intersection with my sister in the car, so I'm as mad at myself as I am for that lovely intersection and its lovely traffic light pattern. The fine was $75 or something, and it wasn't counted against my license. I was just happy to not have caused my sister to get hurt, but instead of installing a camera to collect money they need to unfuck that intersection.
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Oct 10, 2016 00:27
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I believe the 55mph speed limit was originally to save gas, not lives. In the US you also have to factor in poor public transportation and extreme wealth inequality, coupled with terrible labor laws and most states having only the most minimal of annual vehicle safety inspections, so your newish well-maintained car might be perfectly safe at 85, but you're sharing the road with car equivalents of the Millenium Falcon that have braking distances measured in football fields, often driven by people on the tenth day of working fourteen hour days between their three jobs.
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Oct 10, 2016 00:28
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Imagined posted:I believe the 55mph speed limit was originally to save gas, not lives. It was, and longitudinal studies have estimated that it reduced passenger fuel consumption by something like 1-2%. So, somewhat less than making sure that your tires are properly inflated.
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Oct 10, 2016 00:47
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:55mph would suck as an upper limit but i can say with confidence that even with a 70mph limit everyone routinely drives at 80 to 85 on the motorway. I was more thinking of single carriageways which have 60mph speed limits, even if they're twisty country roads that nobody goes that fast on. In the US roads like that might have speed limits as low as 35 or even 25mph, it's ridiculous.
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Oct 10, 2016 00:54
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Phanatic posted:I was more thinking of single carriageways which have 60mph speed limits, even if they're twisty country roads that nobody goes that fast on. In the US roads like that might have speed limits as low as 35 or even 25mph, it's ridiculous. You know that the UK uses kilometers right
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Oct 10, 2016 00:59
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Improbable Lobster posted:You know that the UK uses kilometers right Really? UK Metric Association posted:Speed limits throughout most of the world are set in kilometres per hour (km/h). The UK remains the only country in Europe, and the Commonwealth, that still defines speed limits in miles per hour (mph).
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Oct 10, 2016 01:01
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Improbable Lobster posted:You know that the UK uses kilometers right Road markers in the U.K. are not metric. Distances are in miles, speeds are in mph, bridge clearances are in feet. Fuel's sold by the liter but your speedometer reads in mph. So it's a little weird.
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Oct 10, 2016 01:03
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Wow, that's really stupid. FWIW I mentioned it because of the old "American goes to Canada, speeds like a madman" joke
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Oct 10, 2016 01:06
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They should invent a metric time that makes up for kilometers being shorter than miles so that mph=kmpMT(metric time) so i don't get confused when i get pulled over for speeding because the Speedo meter has two speeds on it
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Oct 10, 2016 01:11
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Improbable Lobster posted:FWIW I mentioned it because of the old "American goes to Canada, speeds like a madman" joke I've certainly done the opposite a few times, been down in the States and then wondered why I was driving so slowly.
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Oct 10, 2016 01:24
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:I've certainly done the opposite a few times, been down in the States and then wondered why I was driving so slowly. The problem I have after so many times back and forth to England is that occasionally at some weird intersection I have to think about what side of the road I need to be on instead of it being completely automatic.
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Oct 10, 2016 01:29
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