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Homework Explainer posted:which one lol clinton thread  i should stop, seeing what the dems have become/are is p infuriating
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Oct 9, 2016 06:08
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In the context of the left, there has never been a point when the Democrats were good or even OK or even not vomit inducing. The New Deal did immeasurable damage to the cause of socialist revolution in this country, etc.
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Oct 9, 2016 06:15
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:In the context of the left, there has never been a point when the Democrats were good or even OK or even not vomit inducing. The New Deal did immeasurable damage to the cause of socialist revolution in this country, etc. i used to think that there could be a happy compromise, that the dems really were leftist that they were just being held back by the republicans
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Oct 9, 2016 06:21
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Deimus posted:Deny it all you want, but I'm not the one having traumatizing dreams about papa Marx changing my diapers after I poop in my baby crib he govialy named 'the free market'. you are getting way too worked up over politics lol
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Oct 9, 2016 06:22
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also accelerationism is bad
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Oct 9, 2016 06:24
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Typo posted:also accelerationism is bad  too bad a vote for a dem still moves us towards ruin
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Oct 9, 2016 06:25
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Condiv posted:clinton thread u shook hard
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Oct 9, 2016 06:27
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:The New Deal did immeasurable damage to the cause of socialist revolution in this country, etc. the new deal was the single largest economically progressive programme in your garbage country's history, lifted millions out of poverty and enabled america to contribute meaningfully to the defeat of fascism. socialist revolution can eat a dick
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Oct 9, 2016 06:27
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Deimus posted:Deny it all you want, but I'm not the one having traumatizing dreams about papa Marx changing my diapers after I poop in my baby crib he govialy named 'the free market'. sir this is a mcdonalds drive through
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Oct 9, 2016 06:28
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:In the context of the left, there has never been a point when the Democrats were good or even OK or even not vomit inducing. The New Deal did immeasurable damage to the cause of socialist revolution in this country, etc. http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/h-g-wells-it-seems-me-i-am-more-left-you-mr-stalin
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Oct 9, 2016 06:32
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Bip Roberts posted:u shook hard yep, seeing you guys happily embrace neoliberalism upsets me pretty bad. probably gonna stop reading the clinton thread entirely cause there's really not anything for me there anymore ditto voting for dems anymore
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Oct 9, 2016 06:32
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Constant Hamprince posted:the new deal was the single largest economically progressive programme in your garbage country's history, lifted millions out of poverty and enabled america to contribute meaningfully to the defeat of fascism. socialist revolution can eat a dick Shoulda let the whole thing burn down imo. Millions might have died in the collapse, but once the Stalinist CPUSA swept into power things would have been fuckin' sweet from that point on, forever.
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Oct 9, 2016 06:34
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Condiv posted:yep, seeing you guys happily embrace neoliberalism upsets me pretty bad. probably gonna stop reading the clinton thread entirely cause there's really not anything for me there anymore yesssss
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Oct 9, 2016 06:36
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Bip Roberts posted:yesssss happy you like the change  i hope you get the president you want and she is everything you want in a president
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Oct 9, 2016 06:42
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Homework Explainer posted:http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/h-g-wells-it-seems-me-i-am-more-left-you-mr-stalin remember when wells wrote a book in the 30s about how the last world war ended when a group of airborne paramilitaries forcibly imposed a totalitarian world government and wiped out all religions and languages other than basic english? remember how he considered it an optimistic vision of the future? personally i liked the one about the martians more
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Oct 9, 2016 06:43
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Condiv posted:happy you like the change you don't sound like a very happy person imo
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Oct 9, 2016 06:45
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Bip Roberts posted:you don't sound like a very happy person imo i'm not happy the way the dem party is going no. pretty sure i made that clear to you in another thread 
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Oct 9, 2016 06:47
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Constant Hamprince posted:sir this is a mcdonalds drive through Eh, the joke was worth a shot.
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Oct 9, 2016 06:49
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Homework Explainer posted:http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/h-g-wells-it-seems-me-i-am-more-left-you-mr-stalin It's not the first time I've read that, but it was worth reading again to remember how diplomatic Stalin could be, the silver tongued devil. Modern socialists take note. Or don't, I'm not your boss. Ni dieu ni maitre and all that.
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Oct 9, 2016 06:52
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Constant Hamprince posted:the new deal was the single largest economically progressive programme in your garbage country's history, lifted millions out of poverty and enabled america to contribute meaningfully to the defeat of fascism. socialist revolution can eat a dick Glad to see a concrete opinion about the New Deal. Though it was a compromise of militant unions organized by communist, socialist parties and the rich at the time. It did lead to the phenomenon of suburbia, with all the negative connotations that come from it. With the kinda transparent/cynical housing plan of 'debt incumbent homeowners don't go on strike'. This is the idea of 'capitalism never actually solves it's crisis problems, it just moves them around' in practice. Deimus fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 06:57
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Liberals talk up the New Deal as a massive success until you start suggesting that it might time for a new deal of our own.
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Oct 9, 2016 07:24
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Neoliberals can't even agree we should protect new deal legislation. You just have to look at them trying to trade temporary tax increases for social security to see that.
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Oct 9, 2016 07:26
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:And hey, maybe if the Democrats weren't so loving cowardly and actually campaigned to convince the public to accept investment into nuclear infrastructure, that public sentiment could be turned around. This isn't necessarily true. Population growth (which should cap out and stay around 9-12 billion) isn't really the major issue because the emissions and resource usage is coming from wealthier nations, and within those nations from the wealthiest people as opposed to the regions with the most population growth. A good portion of resource consumption and emissions is done by the global top 5%. Military activity is also a significant drain on resources. Technological progress, especially when there is concerted public investment can open up new sources of resources, allow us to do more with the same amount of resource usage, recycle resources already used, and develop new kinds of materials, maybe allow us to assemble things at the molecular level. While there may be a need for certain adjustments like less car use in favor of more public transport or meat production in favor of artificial meat and other alternatives, generally a socialist/communist system could provide a high and increasing quality of life for everyone without population reductions or austerity on middle class people in high wealth nations Technological progress has tended to speed up as more people enter the world and those people are provided free time, education and resources. It doesn't look like we're hitting a wall or slowing down. Resources are not being used to develop lower wealth regions or assist poorer people in developed economies as much as they should. If these resources were used to empower the global poor, and to invest in alternative energy and mitigation technologies like desalination, you would increase the likelihood of valuable technological advances while also managing the rise in living standards without excessive environmental damage. IronyGuy6669 fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 08:02
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you guys kno i love to debate economic systems with you guys but truth is the earth has a sustainable carrying capacity of maybe 2 billion people in semi-decent conditions or 4 in perpetual backbreaking poverty. the earth's preciously rare fertile soil is being depleted at a breakneck pace to feed the human population, as are the energy reserves used to fertilize it. global climate change really only accelerates the coming agricultural collapse and even if we switched to a perfectly utopian socioeconomic system tomorrow we'd still be hosed by the sheer ecological limitations of the planet that we have blindly and profoundly exceeded. basically google 'bronze age collapse' and u have a good historical analogue for where we're headed in the next century or so.
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Oct 9, 2016 08:15
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i absolutely would not call your posts "debating"
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Oct 9, 2016 08:17
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cams posted:i absolutely would not call your posts "debating" loving marxists always redefining terms to suit their arguments 
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Oct 9, 2016 08:20
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I'm not an economist but I can say that joining an actually existing communist party seems mighty unattractive, because in my experience they come across as paranoid cults.
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Oct 9, 2016 08:27
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Constant Hamprince posted:loving marxists always redefining terms to suit their arguments
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Oct 9, 2016 08:29
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 this is extremely good poo poo imo. for once, democrats are running towards socialism, embracing it, pulling it close to their bosom. we have them by the balls folks.
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Oct 9, 2016 08:31
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Constant Hamprince posted:you guys kno i love to debate economic systems with you guys but truth is the earth has a sustainable carrying capacity of maybe 2 billion people in semi-decent conditions or 4 in perpetual backbreaking poverty. the earth's preciously rare fertile soil is being depleted at a breakneck pace to feed the human population, as are the energy reserves used to fertilize it. global climate change really only accelerates the coming agricultural collapse and even if we switched to a perfectly utopian socioeconomic system tomorrow we'd still be hosed by the sheer ecological limitations of the planet that we have blindly and profoundly exceeded. basically google 'bronze age collapse' and u have a good historical analogue for where we're headed in the next century or so. we're hosed, but let's not try to unfuck ourselves. instead let's continue the institutions that hosed us instead so we're sure we're hosed. Let's also continue a system that will make sure those who hosed us and their progeny are the most likely to survive the post-apocalyptic hellscape they made while the poor starve and die en masse - "a progressive democrat"
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Oct 9, 2016 08:31
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Condiv posted:we're hosed, but let's not try to unfuck ourselves. instead let's continue the institutions that hosed us instead so we're sure we're hosed. Let's also continue a system that will make sure those who hosed us and their progeny are the most likely to survive the post-apocalyptic hellscape they made while the poor starve and die en masse - "a progressive democrat" agreed, we should also ignore all the progress we've made and tear everything down to start over
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Oct 9, 2016 08:33
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TheDeadFlagBlues posted:
LOL no they aren't running towards socialism. Did you miss the red baiting during the primary?
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Oct 9, 2016 08:33
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Condiv posted:LOL no they aren't running towards socialism. Did you miss the red baiting during the primary?
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Oct 9, 2016 08:34
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Yinlock posted:agreed, we should also ignore all the progress we've made and tear everything down to start over Yep cause that's what socialism in America would mean. All science, laws, and infrastructure will turn into that goo from evangelion the second socialists get power (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 9, 2016 08:35
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Wikkheiser posted:I'm not an economist but I can say that joining an actually existing communist party seems mighty unattractive, because in my experience they come across as paranoid cults. Yeah, I'll give you that. I think the only attractive economic position we could endorse is a worker Co-op system, democracy in the workplace. That's a controversial (ultraleft) position though.
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Oct 9, 2016 08:35
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Condiv posted:Yep cause that's what socialism in America would mean. All science, laws, and infrastructure will turn into that goo from evangelion the second socialists get power what are you even talking about
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Oct 9, 2016 08:37
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Yinlock posted:agreed, we should also ignore all the progress we've made and tear everything down to start over You said the same thing to a similar post like 15 pages ago. And got similar answers you are getting now.
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Oct 9, 2016 08:38
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Progression is for dumb-asses, if we can't go from bone clubs to space lasers all at once then gently caress everything throw it all out
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Oct 9, 2016 08:39
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Condiv posted:been reading the neoliberal thread (they've just pretty much embraced it at this point) and laffo at all the ones saying "american manufacturing is gone and never coming back because it's just not maintainable with current prices!" completely ignoring that current prices are based off of parasitic exploitation of 3rd world markets this is your brain on marxism folks. it's not pretty. what kind of "parasitic exploitation of third world markets" is taking place, exactly? generally speaking, proletarianized peasants voluntarily migrate to cities to work in the manufacturing sector because wages are higher in the manufacturing sector than what could be given to them as peon farmers. tens of millions of people are being lifted out of poverty each year and motherfuckers like you are complaining about this. as a good non-marxist socialist, i support anything that lifts people out of poverty and, yes, trade is one means to accomplish this goal. free trade is entirely congruent with redistributive public policy. the issue is how we move away from a "golden straightjacket" imposed upon nations by neo-liberalism and towards some sort of global democratic governance structure.
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Oct 9, 2016 08:39
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Deimus posted:You said the same thing to a similar post like 15 pages ago. And got similar answers you are getting now. actually i got actual responses rather than rapid goalpost shuffling and hyperbole
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Oct 9, 2016 08:40
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