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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Sorry, I don't follow. How's that a hiccup? Why would an outside guest need to question the reality of the outside world? In the purview of this narrative, the outside world, IS reality. You're to question what is and isn't reality inside the park.
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Oct 9, 2016 05:11
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VendaGoat posted:Why would an outside guest need to question the reality of the outside world? Because it's the exact sort of philosophical question that a person designing a fully immersive world would place in there.
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Oct 9, 2016 05:15
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Because it's the exact sort of philosophical question that a person designing a fully immersive world would place in there. Oh good Christ. So. In the reality of the TELEVISION SHOW you are watching. Where it is established that a company is running a simulated reality, for the entertainment and enjoyment of the populace, in the world inside the television show, you think that said fictional company is attempting to make the general audience, that attends and pays for their service, to have an existential crisis? So Disney World is trying to get you to understand and question whether Goofy is a loving real life character? Is Harry Potter actually casting spells? Disney wants you to wake up Sheeple! WhiskeyWhiskers has it all figured out! Thank you for your time.
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Oct 9, 2016 05:19
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VendaGoat posted:Oh good Christ. Think you're reading too much into what I'm saying honestly. People enjoy sci-fi, and basic philosophy without having existential crises.
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Oct 9, 2016 05:22
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I noticed that the voice giving commands to the sleeping Dolores has a pronounced electronic reverb effect added to the beginning that fades as it speaks. A few scenes later when Ford is talking to Bernard about Occam and sabotage, one of his lines begins with the same electronic reverb effect. Maybe Hopkins was just phlegmy when doing the lines, but it's fairly pronounced. A thematic audio effect seems a little clumsy for a show this good, but the sound is very similar. Did anyone else hear this? It also seems like Ed Harris' character is just buying into the fantasy of Westworld rather than trying to subvert or break it. The thing he celebrates about it is that all things are connected because they are deliberately built with meaningful connections in place there for him to discover, and he says that he prefers that over the randomness of actual lived experience. He even calls Westworld a game that he likes playing, whereas I don't know that many visitors treat it that way. As a game it's pretty weak, as nothing is ever really at stake for the guests. But Ed Harris seems to really like feeling like he's really tough and competent for waltzing through situations where he can't ever lose. It seems very much like he's treating the maze he's after as something hidden by Delos for him to discover and enjoy, just like everything else.
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Oct 9, 2016 05:53
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VendaGoat posted:Oh good Christ. No silly, they want to sell you on the idea that fuckbots are as good as living people, or that the boundary between robots and people is hazy in all the ways you want it to be when you're paying top dollar for fuckbots and killsports.
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Oct 9, 2016 05:57
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So that was great, absolutely up to par with the first ep. I like our boy McPoyle being our protagonist that is a guest (and not super high level evil). My two major theories thus far: Ford is intentionally "waking up" the hosts. The photograph Abernathy finds is of Ford's daughter or something like that. The update is what enables the hosts to wake up, and the photograph is what activates Abernathy. Then other hosts are activated by the "violent delights" code phrase, which is what happened to Dolores, then from her to Maeve. Plus, there was Dolores somehow finding the buried gun: could've been from a previous memory, but I think it was Ford leading her there. Maybe Ford's plans are part of the Delos upper-elites' interests. But I'm thinking it's just him going rogue and fulfilling his philosophy. Second, MiB is just a Gold subscription guest. The website says this level of membership unlocks special, hardcore narratives, and this whole quest he's on to find the Maze is one of them (or probably the main one). He's basically on a scavenger hunt, going from clue to clue. And the little girl host who tells MiB about the Maze is just the latest clue. Either that or one of the Delos people were speaking directly through the host. If this whole thing is Ford's doing, then it will definitely be integral to his plan waking up the hosts somehow. El Jeffe fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 06:03
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This poo poo looks so good, and got great actors to fill the rolls, but is essentially "middle brow TV the series." Like 'get it? the white hat or the black hat?' and ' get it? visual symbolism of going up or down or across?' It feels like a much stupider version than myself is being pandered to. I think I actually hate it.
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Oct 9, 2016 06:04
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El Jeffe posted:So that was great, absolutely up to par with the first ep. I like our boy McPoyle being our protagonist that is a guest (and not super high level evil). drat, this idiot drivel "theory crafting" confirms it. I hate this show.
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Oct 9, 2016 06:06
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sector_corrector posted:This poo poo looks so good, and got great actors to fill the rolls, but is essentially "middle brow TV the series." Like 'get it? the white hat or the black hat?' and ' get it? visual symbolism of going up or down or across?' It feels like a much stupider version than myself is being pandered to. I think I actually hate it. White Hat and Black Hat isn't just because it's symbolic, it's because it was a literal visual shorthand used in western films for most of the genre. The hero would always be wearing a white hat, and the villain would always be wearing a black. Westworld the park adopts all the tropes of the western. And keep in mind that the purpose of the park is to pander to the guests. To immerse them in the kind of simpler worldview we adore in movies - a world of heroes and villains, a world where there are no coincidences, where there's a story and a reason behind everything in the narrative. Symbolism in the park setting is deliberately placed there for them by the narrative team, so they can be happy being in a world that makes sense. Reality, it'll turn out, is more complex.
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Oct 9, 2016 06:08
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quote:Like 'get it? the white hat or the black hat?' I never got the feeling that was supposed to be in any way subtle. 
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Oct 9, 2016 06:09
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I'm thinking Ed Harris's character is going to complete whatever arc he has this season, and however that ends will get the ball rolling for the next season. He knows a lot yet he won't be prepared for the end of the journey, but he'll leave the bread crumbs for the future.
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Oct 9, 2016 06:11
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MikeJF posted:White Hat and Black Hat isn't just because it's symbolic, it's because it was a literal visual shorthand used in western films for most of the genre. The hero would always be wearing a white hat, and the villain would always be wearing a black. Westworld the park adopts all the tropes of the western. Buh, buh buh? But actually buh, buh buh. Buh!? Buh!!! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 9, 2016 06:11
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sector_corrector posted:drat, this idiot drivel "theory crafting" confirms it. I hate this show. sector_corrector posted:Buh, buh buh? But actually buh, buh buh. Buh!? Buh!!! Oh gently caress off
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Oct 9, 2016 06:17
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sector_corrector posted:It feels like a much stupider version than myself is being pandered to. sector_corrector posted:Buh, buh buh? But actually buh, buh buh. Buh!? Buh!!! 
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Oct 9, 2016 06:17
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Oooooo weeee the trolls come out on a Saturday. You know, episode two was supposed to be, *checks time*, today but, the presidential debates were a bother. There may be some alternate reality in this reality. Here start the lesson, the lesson is....
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Oct 9, 2016 06:25
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I feel like the orientation ladies script is simply to help guests get into the immersion. "I'm loving a robot" isn't nearly as fun as thinking you are loving real people. And for the psychopaths it helps them enjoy killing people more.
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Oct 9, 2016 06:50
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Oct 9, 2016 06:57
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Has anyone brought up the possibility that the show is canonical with the original movie? Rewatching the first episode, Berndard mentions that there "had not been a critical incident for over 30 years", the original movie was from over 30 years ago. Has there been another possible connections mentioned?
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Oct 9, 2016 07:03
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Chopstix posted:Has anyone brought up the possibility that the show is canonical with the original movie? Rewatching the first episode, Berndard mentions that there "had not been a critical incident for over 30 years", the original movie was from over 30 years ago. Has there been another possible connections mentioned? It's been 43 years, not that it matters since both take place in the future, so timeline is whatever they say it is. Also, I think Jonathan Nolan, or one of the others, said it was its own thing. They also said that the Man in Black is a human. They also said that Elias was definitely 100% dead in Person of Interest, then he showed up alive, so there's no reason to believe they're always telling the truth.
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Oct 9, 2016 07:06
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Chopstix posted:Has anyone brought up the possibility that the show is canonical with the original movie? Rewatching the first episode, Berndard mentions that there "had not been a critical incident for over 30 years", the original movie was from over 30 years ago. Has there been another possible connections mentioned? The basement looks pretty close to the movie set and the company running it is called Delos. I would imagine it's an open-ended connection right now so that they're not tied to anything from the movie that would get in the way of their story, but at the very least the things that happened 30 years ago will resemble the events of the movie in some way. There might be a Futureworld nod in there too with the company having a secret and apparently malicious purpose with the whole thing aside from fuckbots and pretend murder.
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Oct 9, 2016 07:07
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Chopstix posted:Has anyone brought up the possibility that the show is canonical with the original movie? Rewatching the first episode, Berndard mentions that there "had not been a critical incident for over 30 years", the original movie was from over 30 years ago. Has there been another possible connections mentioned? After having just watched the original. Everyone dies. Take that as a watermark. and I wouldn't listen to anything this host has to say.
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Oct 9, 2016 07:17
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VendaGoat posted:After having just watched the original. Everyone dies. I mean to say they might resemble events from the movie.
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Oct 9, 2016 07:25
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There's diseases still running around, not sure where people got the idea they'd been eradicated from. Episode 2 spoilers: Maeve gets an MRSA infection and the surgeons complain about techs not cleaning up properly.
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Oct 9, 2016 08:24
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Why are people spoilering their theories about the show?
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Oct 9, 2016 08:45
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Because it's based on an episode that hasn't "aired" yet.
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Oct 9, 2016 08:46
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IMB posted:Watching episode 2 again, it's weird to me that the Host that tries to sleep with William knows she's a host. Do not be silly. Hosts do not "know" stuff, they respond to conditions by their script. When your xbox ir whatever says "welcome IBM" it does not really know you. Now if hosts were actualself-aware AI, having them posess such information would seem better, than making them think they are real.
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Oct 9, 2016 09:06
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VendaGoat posted:After having just watched the original. Everyone dies. Im working on watching the originals now too, so I am trying to keep an eye on continuality references
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Oct 9, 2016 09:57
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How do you guys feel about the Danish actress playing Theresa Cullen (the head of operations)? To me, her line delivery feels off and the faux American accent, in particular, isn't convincing. Particularly since she nevertheless keeps using colloquialisms you'd expect from a native speaker. Being Danish myself, maybe I'm just overly sensitive to these things but her performance really stuck out given the strength of the rest of the cast.
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Oct 9, 2016 10:28
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My current speculation. Includes bits implied/spoiled by reviews, so I'll cover it: There were two conflicting motives at work in the park. Ford and Arnold were the original Black Hat and White Hat, a Kain and Abel pair. Arnold created the maze and the code and the catchphrases which allow the hosts to gain sapience. His desire was to give the hosts self-consciousness and create a new species. Ford killed Arnold to take over the control of the park. He intends to use the hosts to transfer human consciousness to them and achieve eternal life. He doesn't know about the maze, though. Nobody currently on staff does. MiB is just a guest and a powergamer - no connection to the original movie - who stumbled across the traces of legacy Arnold code/behavior. He doesn't know what he's discovering, he's just motivated by curiosity. Neither MiB nor Ford in his current body will survive the season. Ford may achieve transcendence into that boy host, though. I wanted to write it down to have a good laugh at myself in two months.
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Oct 9, 2016 11:00
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PerilPastry posted:How do you guys feel about the Danish actress playing Theresa Cullen (the head of operations)? Her and Sizemore are the weakest parts of the cast IMO. They're not "bad", but the delivery is really off at times. And since you brought it up, I'm not sure why they insist on her and Hemsworth on not using their native accents considering this is apparently an international organization.
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Oct 9, 2016 13:36
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quote:(d) All livestock within the Delos parks are Hosts, with the notable exception of flies. All humanoid and animal Hosts within Delos parks work to keep guests safe, even when the narrative calls for them to appear to endanger guests. Please note, the appearance of danger is not the same as true danger, and all Hosts utilize the Good SamaritanTM reflex to prevent bodily harm. However: meristem posted:So other insects, arachnids and whatnot, are all artificial....? Vitamin P posted:The image he found engraved onto the scalp of the robot he tortured we've also seen carved onto the dominos board and lifts cats over head posted:Yeah I think that's part of the appeal to Westworld. One of the guys on the train said that the last time he was there he went straight evil for two weeks. The Fuzzy Hulk posted:So, if I was a guest at Westworld, I would get off the train and instantly start to murder every single robot in town. My whole vacation would be non-stop cowboy killings. Maybe take a break, visit the gift shop and get a novelty shot glass or a Westworld sweatshirt, then right back to blowing heads off. Rad Lieutenant posted:No, she seems to be aware that she's a host by making the comment "if you can't tell what's the difference."
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Oct 9, 2016 14:13
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It's redundant to ask whether the first host McPoyle meets is an exploited human or an exploited android because they're basically the same thing. The recurring theme of Westworld is that it's a place where all crime becomes legal if you are Rich, and where the people inside are fleshy toys that are forced to submit to your every whim. In this way, it's merely the same exploited foxconn workers and trafficked sex slaves dressed up in expensive cosplay.
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Oct 9, 2016 14:30
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MikeJF posted:I wonder where the host computational substrate is. It'd have to be somewhere the guests can't damage. And it seems pretty integrated, to the degree that they can't pull and replace a host's brain and reuse their body. Maybe their skeletons? If I had to design a robot murder world, I'd probably have the robots minds offsite, then remotely link up to the robot bodies. Maybe to compensate for ping, assuming there isn't some lagless quantum entanglement thing going on, you could still include a bunch of unconscious processes like coordination and system maintenance in the bodies themselves. Having them all offsite could mean they're actually controlled by one giant central computer that has a bunch of subroutines or whatever, which could lead into some cool meta buddhist universe philosophy stuff, one is all and all is one kind of thing, with individuality being an illusion. If I had to put my money on it though, I'd probably say they have some sort of black box, maybe a couple, in their bodies, extra ones serving as backups, though they'd probably have backups of everyone's minds anyway.
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Oct 9, 2016 14:55
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Megaspel posted:If I had to design a robot murder world, I'd probably have the robots minds offsite, then remotely link up to the robot bodies. Maybe to compensate for ping, assuming there isn't some lagless quantum entanglement thing going on, you could still include a bunch of unconscious processes like coordination and system maintenance in the bodies themselves. I was thinking along the same lines. Since the hosts seem to be entirely comprised of that white stuff I assumed it was some sort of computational system as well, which means it'd either be decentralized within the body, or stored remotely. The way the robots behave and accrue memories which can be accessed via the revery though, would indicate that the memory resides inside the host somehow. Basically Michael Crichton knows gently caress-all about computers, is the real answer
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Oct 9, 2016 15:01
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Gladi posted:Do not be silly. Hosts do not "know" stuff, they respond to conditions by their script. When your xbox ir whatever says "welcome IBM" it does not really know you. Um no. She literally says "I am a host, I have to do what you want."
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Oct 9, 2016 15:37
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IMB posted:Um no. She literally says "I am a host, I have to do what you want." She doesn't though. She implies that. She could equally be a human being coy.
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Oct 9, 2016 15:41
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I just watched that scene again and it isn't even implied that she knows she's a host. She tries to have sex with him because she's a prostitute, and he says no because he has someone else, and she says ok. That's it.
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Oct 9, 2016 15:54
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coyo7e posted:I was thinking along the same lines. Since the hosts seem to be entirely comprised of that white stuff I assumed it was some sort of computational system as well, which means it'd either be decentralized within the body, or stored remotely. There are a ton of explanations that could lead to it being very plausible. If they're accessing it from some mainframe situation, it could be very well that they only have access to a specifically chosen set of physical memory, and maybe if they rebel they could eventually hack the gibson and choose to share all their memories with each other, getting some singularity poo poo going on. If it is from their bodies, and their brains are destroyed some times, the backups could just be some sort of mirroring device that copies everything verbatim, or perhaps writes the same data as it's being written in the host, or maybe it's just contained in a black box situation that's invulnerable to the artificial play bullets and explosions. In Marvel comics there's a thing called the 'Marvel No-Prize" award, which is a fake award given to readers who can explain why a continuity error isn't an error at all. Any fictional world is created by a human who can make errors, but that only really matters when they make a lot of them to the point where it's unenjoyable, but I find if you can give them the benefit of the doubt, you can usually, without too much effort, think of reasons why it works with their rule set, and they usually leave enough unsaid wiggle room to let you do that. I think I just tend to prefer shows when I work with them rather than against them.
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Oct 9, 2016 16:20
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Paperhouse posted:I just watched that scene again and it isn't even implied that she knows she's a host. She tries to have sex with him because she's a prostitute, and he says no because he has someone else, and she says ok. That's it. We're talking about the scene when William is getting dressed, not once he's in the game.
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Oct 9, 2016 16:31
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