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goodbye Zorn and Thorn you surprisingly persistent jester henchmen Still no clue whats up with them being once one and carrying a virus of sorts
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Oct 9, 2016 19:03
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This is a great update for body horror, between Meltigemini and whatever the hell is going on with Odin's abs. RIP jester twins. They died as they lived, being ineffectual and creepy. I wondered if their transformation would turn out to be some other obscure old FF reference, but I guess it really is out of goddamn nowhere, huh? Though there is a fan theory I read once that I like, suggesting that Meltigemini is a damaged or dying eidolon itself. We've seen through Ramuh and now Mog that eidolons can disguise themselves as weaker characters; it wouldn't be the only eidolon boss fight in the game; and it might explain why Zorn and Thorn are the only ones who have the power to extract eidolons from other people, that's something not even Kuja can do. Mog's ribbon slowly floating down to Eiko is one of the  -est things.
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Oct 9, 2016 19:17
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I like how Kuja advances menacingly on the bishop for no reason when he arrives at Esto Gaza. Also, Zorn and Thorn selling Vaccines is kind of funny, given their signature attack inflicts Virus. Or perhaps that's rather fitting?
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Oct 9, 2016 20:12
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So assuming that Kuja needed the Gulug Stone in order to open the door to Mount Gulug in the first place, he sure was quick to arrange reasonably comfy living quarters for Hilda.  Or maybe he dropped his own spare Gulug Stone when scrambling to escape the cataclysmic destruction of Alexandria, we've all been there.
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Oct 9, 2016 20:12
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I don't remember if it's ever established WHY Mt. Gulug was important to Kuja. The only thing that happened here was the attempted extraction, and that happened in Alexandria castle too, so it's not like it can only be performed here. Anyway, the Jewel spell- as far as I know, it's the only way to easily farm ore which is used to make the other stones that boost the power of various summons.
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Oct 9, 2016 21:51
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Every villain needs a volcano lair.
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Oct 9, 2016 22:01
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Schwartzcough posted:I don't remember if it's ever established WHY Mt. Gulug was important to Kuja. The only thing that happened here was the attempted extraction, and that happened in Alexandria castle too, so it's not like it can only be performed here. It's possible that the extraction circles can only be done in certain places. And since Kuja isn't exactly welcome in Alexandria Castle, it's far easier to go to Mt. Gulug.
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Oct 9, 2016 22:19
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Schwartzcough posted:I don't remember if it's ever established WHY Mt. Gulug was important to Kuja. The only thing that happened here was the attempted extraction, and that happened in Alexandria castle too, so it's not like it can only be performed here. I don't think it does get established, at least not in the threads of the story. It only seems relevant to one other place before this (Alexandria), so it is one of the few loose threads that this story never really picks up on, to my memory (though I could be wrong - the number of times I misremembered FF7 makes me second-guess my memory of these games now). Perhaps it's just theorycrafting here, but both of the times the extractions were in underground places that were preserved with some form of stone circle. It's likely that these were the only known points to Kuja that the extractions could take place, though how he came to know of this one is as much a mystery, as is why he had to come to this one in particular (especially if the one in Alexandria still works - not like anyone is actually going to be guarding the gargant passage - or if there were others in the world that he could've used). It's what I think, at least.
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Oct 9, 2016 22:24
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Mega64 posted:
Square really droppped the ball by not making this become the standard look for Grenades.
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Oct 10, 2016 00:00
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I really like the sense that something went very deeply wrong with the civilisation in Mt. Gulug and they all suddenly vanished, replaced with ghosts, poisons monsters, and of course the Red Dragons. I guess they Dug Too Deep.
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Oct 10, 2016 00:21
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TiamosLoren posted:(especially if the one in Alexandria still works - not like anyone is actually going to be guarding the gargant passage - or if there were others in the world that he could've used) maybe the blast destroyed the stone circle too somehow Kheldarn posted:Square really droppped the ball by not making this become the standard look for Grenades. gotta save money with that repaint tool
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Oct 10, 2016 00:29
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I love the weird design for Red Dragons. They have feather wings and emo hair?
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Oct 10, 2016 00:36
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Mt. Gulug has a wonderful music track. I might have said this before but I really like how often you get a whole nice track for a one-time area or single scene. Sure, this one is from somewhere else, but it is great all the same. And oddly fitting for a volcano to me. Also I like how weird Meltigemini is. And there's a thing with them and Virus and a later location I noticed on my last playthrough that (almost) works completely and I hope it was intentional because it's a cool little detail. Anyway, that'll have to wait until later.
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Oct 10, 2016 01:43
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Yeah, I don't think it's ever elaborated on exactly why Kuja needed the Gulug Stone (although my theory used to be he just sent Zidane to Oelivert to gently caress with his head), but it makes sense that it's related to Eidolon extraction. It's just kinda dropped and you have to reach your own conclusions about that whole arc.
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Oct 10, 2016 03:47
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It might be the key to the door of the volcano. There is a big obvious triangle on it after all. Right next to Zidane's head.
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Oct 10, 2016 11:35
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Sorry, should have made that clearer. Been a long couple of weeks and my brain is kinda shot. Don't work two fulltime jobs if you can avoid it, kids! I meant that it's unclear why Kuja needs to get into Mount Gulug in particular. You have to connect those fairly distant dots yourself.
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Oct 10, 2016 13:15
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I dunno, HIlda's room was pretty decked out for a recently-acquired hideout. Either Kuja had already had this place for a while or he's willing to dedicate a couple of black mages (or Zorn and Thorn) to lugging around her poo poo from base to base.
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Oct 10, 2016 13:45
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Kuja's reasoning for going to Mount Gulug will be made (somewhat) clearer as the story progresses. Though this doesn't explain some of the glaring discrepancies (like how there's a fully furnished and well preserved room/prison for Hilda, if the place had been sealed for centuries and Kuja only arrived shortly before the party did, so it's doubtful he had the time to set it up this way). Personally I think it's more probable that Kuja used other means to enter the place long before the Desert Palace events happen, but needed the stone to activate some mechanism inside Mount Gulug. What always bugged me about this part is the forced connection between trance and Mog/Madeen joining Eiko as an eidolon. For all we know Madeen already was a powerful eidolon before she decided to become Mog. We don't know much about how eidolons come into existance, but the conversation with Ramuh makes it sound like they are sentient forces of nature that have been around for millenia and at some point decide (or are forced) to serve a summoner. So Kuja, who should know a lot about eidolons, making this rather weird connection to trance always seemed out of place to me.
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Oct 10, 2016 13:55
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Asparagus32 posted:Kuja's reasoning for going to Mount Gulug will be made (somewhat) clearer as the story progresses. Though this doesn't explain some of the glaring discrepancies (like how there's a fully furnished and well preserved room/prison for Hilda, if the place had been sealed for centuries and Kuja only arrived shortly before the party did, so it's doubtful he had the time to set it up this way). She brought it herself 
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Oct 10, 2016 14:51
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Asparagus32 posted:What always bugged me about this part is the forced connection between trance and Mog/Madeen joining Eiko as an eidolon. For all we know Madeen already was a powerful eidolon before she decided to become Mog. We don't know much about how eidolons come into existance, but the conversation with Ramuh makes it sound like they are sentient forces of nature that have been around for millenia and at some point decide (or are forced) to serve a summoner. Especially since Kuja dismisses that trance is brought on by the desire to protect something, which was exactly what Mog was doing. I don't know why Kuja decided that it was "anger at one's surroundings" that caused it, which doesn't seem applicable here.
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Oct 10, 2016 17:48
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I always just figured Kuja had a bad understanding of what was happening and he was just projecting his own feelings onto the situation
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Oct 10, 2016 18:04
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-Gurugu -Gulug -Gurgu Romanization is hard. Talking about romanization, Madeen! While undeniably a reference to FFVI's Maduin, the difference in name is actually not a misromanization, to my own surprise, their names differ ever-so-slightly in Japanese: マディン (VI) vs マディーン (IX). "Madeen" is a pretty weird way to romanize it, but I can see why they'd want to keep the difference between both and "Maduiin" really does not work. That said, later games would romanize マディーン as Maduin as well, for some reason. Also Kuja decided that Trance is useful? Ahahah, poor guy. He couldn't be more wrong.
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Oct 10, 2016 18:08
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Well he is right that its more useful than summons.
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Oct 10, 2016 18:17
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All the cool villains have Limit Breaks, so Kuja wants one, too.
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Oct 10, 2016 18:35
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It sounded to me like Kuja had decided he'd solved the method to activate trance on purpose. Reliability does seem to be the main issue with trance as a battle option.Schwartzcough posted:Especially since Kuja dismisses that trance is brought on by the desire to protect something, which was exactly what Mog was doing. I don't know why Kuja decided that it was "anger at one's surroundings" that caused it, which doesn't seem applicable here. To be fair, he left after he told the jesters to kill Mog, who was protecting the little girl they kidnapped and were magically killing in order to steal her powers. I don't think he saw everything that happened after that, so with that in mind, plus his natural villain-y mindset, it's not too surprising he made that conclusion. I wonder more about why he's convinced that trance was involved at all. I suppose he knows more about eidolons, but I just assumed changing forms was a thing they could do based on our example of one, rather than trance being the cause.
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Oct 10, 2016 19:41
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There's apparently a hint about why Kuja may have wanted to go to Mount Gulug, though I don't know if I can find it now or if it pops up later in the game. I'll address it when I get to it, but if you're curious it's on the FF Wiki under the Mount Gulug page. Should have the next update tomorrow, hopefully.
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Oct 11, 2016 01:14
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Squarely Circle posted:Mog's ribbon slowly floating down to Eiko is one of the Someone sacrificing themselves to save a party member is pretty prevalent in FF, so this is a callback as well. Galuf's bangle dropping to Krile in FFV comes to mind, as well as Rachel and the Phoenix magicite in FFVI. FFII had a bunch of people die but the party only got a lovely spell once IIRC.
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Oct 11, 2016 01:31
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Have some more avatars in the meantime.     
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Oct 11, 2016 01:42
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Asparagus32 posted:What always bugged me about this part is the forced connection between trance and Mog/Madeen joining Eiko as an eidolon. For all we know Madeen already was a powerful eidolon before she decided to become Mog. We don't know much about how eidolons come into existance, but the conversation with Ramuh makes it sound like they are sentient forces of nature that have been around for millenia and at some point decide (or are forced) to serve a summoner. Kuja knows more about what's going on but he doesn't know everything. To him, Mog was just a small moogle who all of a sudden hulked out. That fits his knowledge of trance. He's also not wrong on his stated reason to activate it: consider Vivi's plot Trancing for Black Waltz no. 3. Blaze Dragon posted:Also Kuja decided that Trance is useful? Ahahah, poor guy. He couldn't be more wrong. Not all Trance's are made equal. Zidane, Steiner and Vivi's trances are all really powerful (Zidane and Steiner hit for the damage cap reliably and Vivi can surpass it easily.)
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Oct 11, 2016 02:10
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EponymousMrYar posted:Not all Trance's are made equal. Zidane, Steiner and Vivi's trances are all really powerful (Zidane and Steiner hit for the damage cap reliably and Vivi can surpass it easily.) To be fair, towards the end of the game, all Steiner's does is save him some MP from his more powerful skills. If you cap Thievery Zidane doesn't have much use for Dyne outside of multi-targetting. I'd say Vivi and Amarant have the best Trances towards the end, then Eiko. Freya and Dagger's Trances aren't worthless but they're just kinda... there.
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Oct 11, 2016 02:19
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Mega64 said it's okay for me to plug my in-progess Excalibur II Run here. It's the first one I've seen that's not camcordered and also the PC version. Enjoy!
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Oct 11, 2016 02:24
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EponymousMrYar posted:Not all Trance's are made equal. Zidane, Steiner and Vivi's trances are all really powerful (Zidane and Steiner hit for the damage cap reliably and Vivi can surpass it easily.) That's not my point. Kuja will end up obtaining Trance, then build up the gauge for a final confrontation with Zidane and his pals...only for it to trigger in a random battle just before he gets to them, likely at the very end of the fight. Rinse and repeat, with an ever-more-irritable Kuja trying really hard to keep that Trance gauge just slightly below full.
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Oct 11, 2016 03:03
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Gamesfreak13563 posted:Mega64 said it's okay for me to plug my in-progess Excalibur II Run here. Oh, awesome. Great presentation, too. The pop-up moogle hints are perfect.
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Oct 11, 2016 03:11
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I wonder what kind of special command/trait Kuja would get for Trance. 0 MP cost, maybe?
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Oct 11, 2016 03:12
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Yes, going into Trance doesn't need the desire to protect another. That's exactly what you should learn from that moogle, who went into a Trance to protect Eiko. Kuja, do you even listen to your own hype?
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Oct 11, 2016 03:16
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look, Kuja didn't get a lot of love and affection growing up, so he's doing the best with what he's got
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Oct 11, 2016 06:02
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Every time Kuja felt good about himself, Garland had to show up and knock him down
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Oct 11, 2016 06:51
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Kuja dropping two consecutive "haha! this was really that!" reveals rubbed me the wrong way. Melti's freaky, but its inclusion feels clumsy. That and Kuja throwing Trance onstage out of nowhere. I love all the names of Zidane's Dyne attacks and I bet that's why Kuja's being so obsessed with it out of nowhere, so he can name a bunch of attacks after all the lame poetry he recites. FFIX's Eidolons always looked really weird compared to their other designs throughout the series. Mostly Ifrit and Odin, like they really wanted to make them look different. I'm glad Ramuh showed up even if he's consistently gotten the shaft (though XV seems to be fixing that).
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Oct 11, 2016 07:19
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Zeikier posted:Kuja dropping two consecutive "haha! this was really that!" reveals rubbed me the wrong way. Melti's freaky, but its inclusion feels clumsy. That and Kuja throwing Trance onstage out of nowhere. Ifrit's just been consistently getting more bestial over the series. He goes from basically humanoid with angry face and horns, to eventually getting shaggier, and then half-dog thing in X and XIV. Meanwhile, Shiva gets more elaborate and flowy garments and Ramuh... is pretty much the same.
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Oct 11, 2016 08:32
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Ramuhs beard and robes keep getting longer.
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Oct 11, 2016 12:11
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