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I've played bits and pieces of the series, but this is the first Disgaea game I've seen from beginning to end. The plot feels really scattered, and I'm not sure if that's a standard thing for the series or what. We definitely had build up on the plot, but it really feels like they're back-loading a lot of this. Largely in regards to Xenolith.
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Oct 6, 2016 02:40
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Arcade Rabbit posted:I've played bits and pieces of the series, but this is the first Disgaea game I've seen from beginning to end. The plot feels really scattered, and I'm not sure if that's a standard thing for the series or what. We definitely had build up on the plot, but it really feels like they're back-loading a lot of this. Largely in regards to Xenolith.
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Oct 6, 2016 02:58
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FractalSandwich posted:Disgaeas 1-4 are all exactly like this, yeah. It's pretty unfortunate. Like I said earlier, I do feel like 1 and 2 had more escalation as the game went on. In 1 you go from putting down petty uprisings, to fighting every challenger at once, putting down an invasion from Earth, and then invading Celestia as part of a multi-chapter sequence. I mean, there's a ton of little sub-plots, but they get bigger and bigger as the game progresses. 2 has a somewhat more "intimate" plot but its antagonist is also considerably more involved in the plot than Xenolith was. I mean, the games are always going to have somewhat scattered storylines, but DD2 definitely seems moreso than other games in the series.
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Oct 6, 2016 04:04
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Thing that bugs me about this is that if Xenolith had just told people "Uh, I got a world-destroying artifact here, but if we blow it up bad poo poo will happen" then we could have avoided 90% of this plot. Bad communication kills, people!
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Oct 6, 2016 05:21
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Sounds about right, though there's also the assumption that Etna actually is Xenolith's sister. Watch it actually be, uh, Priere or something. Considering how stupid most demons are and he seemed to distrust the current overlord at the time id imagine he figured its a better idea to just keep it to himself.
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Oct 6, 2016 05:26
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Sounds about right, though there's also the assumption that Etna actually is Xenolith's sister. Watch it actually be, uh, Priere or something. To be perfectly fair most demons really wouldn't give a poo poo and would just go "Oh you're just making it up." and then just break it anyway. And let's be perfectly honest the number of demons who are actually competent enough and smart enough to try and honestly would care enough about helping him find a different way of doing things are really far and few between.
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Oct 6, 2016 05:48
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And I think this escalation to getting this crazy artifact and endangering the Netherworld is actually pretty recent (since the original Disgaea for sure because he otherwise wouldn't have had access to angels). You could probably imagine King Krichevskoy was in fact actually doing something about it without her knowing and so it's only actually been a potential problem since his death. He was a pretty cool dude so that's plausible. The plot of Disgaea is usually pretty scattered for various reasons, yeah. 5 is an exception, we will have a very clear goal and the things we do will generally obviously advance that goal in meaningful ways. Feinne fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 06:08
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Feinne posted:And I think this escalation to getting this crazy artifact and endangering the Netherworld is actually pretty recent (since the original Disgaea for sure because he otherwise wouldn't have had access to angels). You could probably imagine King Krichevskoy was in fact actually doing something about it without her knowing and so it's only actually been a potential problem since his death. He was a pretty cool dude so that's plausible. That sounds like you're planning to LP D5 next, skipping over 4.
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Oct 6, 2016 12:23
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:That sounds like you're planning to LP D5 next, skipping over 4. Pretty sure Feinne has already indicated that before. He's...not a huge fan of the gameplay of 4.
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Oct 6, 2016 14:48
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The big shame about that is that the masses will remain largely uninformed about Sardines, but I can understand why one would not want to play 4 again.
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Oct 6, 2016 14:56
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Mokinokaro posted:Pretty sure Feinne has already indicated that before. He's...not a huge fan of the gameplay of 4. His LP record clearly shows that he enjoys suffering. But fair enough. It's not like the plots of these games are particularly connected.
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Oct 6, 2016 15:18
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Mokinokaro posted:Pretty sure Feinne has already indicated that before. He's...not a huge fan of the gameplay of 4. Yeah there are two problems with 4, one of which wouldn't be a problem and one of which is. The first is that the plot is like exceptionally strange in ways that I'm not totally a fan of (which isn't a problem), the second is that the game systems represent the height of NIS huffing their own farts as far as making everything incredibly complicated, difficult to use, and obscure. That's perfectly fine for me playing the game on my own, at my own pace, for fun, but for an LP it's kinda killer. And to be clear I'm not complaining the game's hard because it's not particularly, it's just really time consuming to do ANYTHING. Like hyperdimension neptunia is not a well designed game but it could never dream of actively working to waste your time at the level that Disgaea 4 does. I could probably play the vita version (in theory I even have the ability to record that) and if I were to LP it I'd do that but the only reason I wasn't already LPing 5 is that its original Disgaea DLC spoils this game. Feinne fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 6, 2016 15:48
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I still like 4 a lot. But I can understand if you don't enjoy it.
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Oct 6, 2016 16:11
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:His LP record clearly shows that he enjoys suffering. But fair enough. It's not like the plots of these games are particularly connected. 
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Oct 7, 2016 02:30
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i liked 4, but it was kind of annoying that there wasn't a single character with a really noticeable character arc
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Oct 7, 2016 02:57
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dick head dinosaur posted:i liked 4, but it was kind of annoying that there wasn't a single character with a really noticeable character arc Emizel and Vulcanus didn't change enough for you?
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Oct 7, 2016 06:58
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Well....I just happened to stumble across this. I've seen all of the Disgaea games (except 3, but I know a bit about it....but only a bit. I also may or may not have skimmed over Disgaea 5) Can someone tell me what's up with this Disgaea 4 thingy though? Edit: Seems like I've dropped it right before the final boss, how awkward of a timing to be here. MisawaMahoKodomo fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Oct 7, 2016 |
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Oct 7, 2016 17:07
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Forty-Four: The Artifact Unleashed Now for the final confrontation. The game flows right from the last map to this one, though it does at least fully heal the party between them. Video- Final Showdown Lead in  Watch   I guess this is where all the angels are injecting their angel powers… Big Brother! Over there!This looks less than ideal.   We…need to destroy the… Dammit! That’s so much magic…! Is he going to suck the Netherworld dry!? Xenolith! Stop! … He’s unconscious… Maybe the artifact took over his body… I guess we have no choice… We have to fight Xenolith again. And this time, we have to try to kill him… B-But he’s your brother…!? That doesn’t matter! If we don’t kill him, he’s going to kill us.He IS pretty ominous.  And he also totally attacks Etna out of nowhere.  Prince…! Etna, before we defeat that thing, I have one order to give you. What are you talking about…? When we destroy the artifact and you get your magic back…don’t die.These are your orders from your Overlord. You must obey them, understand? Big Brother… …I refuse. What!? Why won’t you just obey me!? Did you really think I would follow such a ridiculous order? Well you sure picked a great time to be your usual insolent self……Fine, after everything’s over, if you’re still in one piece, I’ll grant you any wish you want. Are you sure about that? That’s a little too extreme! An Overlord doesn’t lie. Oh, but you just can’t wish to become Overlord. Well, that’s not quite any wish I want, now is it? Shut up! So, yes or no!? Fine… Even if you didn’t order me to, I wouldn’t have died anyway. Now, we just have to stop that thing.The Netherworld belongs to me, the Overlord! I won’t let some artifact do whatever it wants! This is it! Let’s go! And now for the very final map of the main game. Video- Final Showdown  Watch We’re up against this bunch of Surts and Xenolith’s final boss form. The Surts will depress our Fire Resistance which makes them get less dangerous as we kill more of them. They’re critically vulnerable to Wind so just blow them up. They’re not the problem.  So first thing of note, he’s got a goddamn load of health. His stats are okay but actually not that impressive. He’ll pretty much only use one attack, which hits a weird criss-cross area in front of him and can easily smash more than one person if you don’t position against it. But let’s see the HARD PART.  This Evility makes the fight suck so hard. So, every one of our characters within ten tiles has 3% of their stats per tile they approach towards him transferred to him (so 30% if you’re next to him). So, the more characters you’re trying to bring to bear against Xenolith, the more powerful he becomes. It’s also harder to prevent him hitting multiple characters with his attack. So here’s my hard-won strategy, which comes from how my first kill of him ended in practice: My only active characters are Barbara, a damage dealer (in this case my Succubus since she’s ranged), and a healer (in this case my Magic Knight, who’s my most durable healer). Lanzarote is also out, but she just stays away to debuff Xenolith. Barbara always hangs out next to the damage dealer to take the hits instead, and every so often also gets a Counter out of it. Sometimes Xenolith will get saucy and decide to hit your healer, which is why you need to make sure they’re also as durable as possible so they can take that hit. Make liberal use of moving, healing, then cancelling the target’s move to keep your damage camp and the healer on opposite sides of Xenolith and out of risk of him hitting more than one person a turn. This also minimizes his excess stat gain. Did I mention this strategy takes FORFUCKINGEVER? Because it does. Don’t watch that goddamn video unless you hate yourself, eventually I do turn off animations because it was already taking too drat long. Anyway praise be to Baal this is done. Video- Ending  Watch That’s it… It’s over…! The artifact…shattered! Graaaaaahhhhhh!!! An immense amount of power is flowing out of Xenolith…! No, wait… It’s coming from the artifact. All the magic that was absorbed is being released… Grah… Ha…ha…Did you destroy it…? The Artifact of Absolute Death…!? Xenolith! You’ve got your consciousness back! …Stay back! But if we don’t help you, your body is going to…! Don’t…mind me… …My sister!Etna does indeed seem to be having some problems, which does serve as a final confirmation that he’s right about her identity.  Urrraaaggghhh!!! Etna!? Etna! I didn’t know such evil magic could exist… * huff * * huff * I-I’m okay… I won’t let this eat me up… But you look like you’re in a lot of pain…! Don’t be an idiot. I’m ecstatic to have this much power… Etna…you… Now that you can see I’m okay, go take care of Xenolith! …You got it. We’ll take care of him!The Netherworld seems to have other plans, because the ground begins to swallow Xenolith.  What the hell!? The Netherworld is trying to suck him in now!? Is my…sister all right…? She’s alive! So please escape! I can’t do…that…Looks like I’ve angered the Netherworld… It won’t let me get away after what I did… But…you can’t just give up! Etna finally accepted you as her brother! Hold on, Xenolith! Haaaaaahhhhhh!Dammit… I used too much power during the battle… That’s fine… Sorry for causing you so much trouble, Overlord Laharl…I’m counting on you…to look after my sister… Screw you! Etna…!? You’re so self-centered!You arbitrarily saved your sister, gave her to King Krichevskoy, and used that artifact to protect her…! And now you’re just gonna die? You’re kidding, right!? There’s so much stuff I need to interrogate you about! I won’t let you give up. If you really are my brother, then show me the fight in you! Make it out alive, for me! Etna… …Laharl decides to jump in on this too.  Once the Netherworld is back to normal, I’ll be waiting for you at the Overlord’s Castle! I’ll see you there!That is an order from your Overlord! I will make you come! …That’s right. We’ll see each other again! Please come back! For Etna! An order from the Overlord, huh…?Heh… You’re so overbearing… I’ll be waiting… Stupid…brother…Etna as it happens was not doing well, and falls over.  And now the credits, which start on a rare scene, Prinnies flying in to bear Etna back to the castle.  There are a few scenes of the flowers disappearing from places we went to that don’t make for interesting screenshots before we get to vignettes. Here’s the Krichevskoy Group, who we’ll be seeing again in the postgame for one last hurrah of them being dumb as hell and a very unexpected cameo.  Here’s Lanzarote with the Hoggmeisers.  Barbara and a cat. This will make sense once we get into the proper postgame after sorting out DLC.  Virunga, who is still not very important. Sorry Virunga! How does it feel to know Flonne is better at your job?  Back at the castle now.   Asagi finally got the spotlight! But wait, WHO IS THIS MYSTERY CHALLENGER? And will be we seeing this MIGHTY WHITE TIGER in the postgame?   And now back to the beginning.   And finally Agul Eviland.   We then move into the epilogue.  Narrator: The kidnapped angels were released. After the Seraph heard what happened, relations between the Netherworld and Celestia resumed. However, Sicily’s sin of harming other angels got her banished from Celestia, so she decided to live with Laharl in the Netherworld. Etna had fallen into a deep sleep. She did not reply to outside stimuli, but Laharl and the others all believed she would recover. A few months later… It should be noted that since the search for the angels is over, Flonne’s back to her Fallen Angel form. We can actually switch between them in the Assembly now that we’re in the postgame, as well as also switching Laharl to Laharl-chan.   At this rate, it shouldn’t be long before the demons accept you as the Overlord, dood! The demons are finally accepting my greatness.All right, organize a parade to celebrate! Big Brother, we’ve already had 30 parades… Do you really want to have another one? The number of times we’ve had one doesn’t matter. We’re gonna have another one because I want another one! …So even though everyone accepts you as Overlord now, you still haven’t changed? Hmph! No matter what happens, I’ll always be like this. Now and forever! Okay, you’re right. That’s more your style anyway.Oh, but no parade, okay? You promised to take me sightseeing around the Netherworld today, remember? Wh-What!? I don’t remember saying any such thing! You can play dumb all you want, but I’m not letting you get out of it.I can’t go back to Celestia, so it’s your job to help me get accustomed to the Netherworld! S-Stop! Get off me!Anyway there’s good news.  Is she up!? Yes. She woke up…but she took off somewhere by herself. What!? Is she all right!? She should be okay. She seemed like her usual self… But she woke up and left without telling anyone where she was going…? That’s a little mean. True…but that’s just Etna being Etna. I bet she’ll come back in no time. This isn’t acceptable! Hey, Prinny! Go find Etna! A-Aye aye, dood! Why didn’t she come straight to me!? Dammit… I was really… Worried about her, weren’t you? We all knew you were only pretending you weren’t worried. N-No! Your eyes were playing tricks on you! I wasn’t worried one bit! Yeah right. Whatever you say, Big Brother. Absolutely! You don’t believe me at all, do you? So…where did Etna go, anyway? Come to think of it, she looked kind of happy as she was leaving…While we never see who she’s talking to, it’s quite obvious.  Don’t worry. I’ll talk to the Prince and get him to pardon you for all that poo poo you pulled.He said he’ll grant me one wish. But in return, you’re going to have to do whatever I say for the rest of my life. You’ve caused so much trouble, it’s only natural that you’d have to do that. Now let’s go see the Prince.   And that’s the main game. Tune in next time for the start of the postgame, where we’ll be fighting a rude witch and perhaps making some other exciting friends as the DLC roundup starts.
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Oct 7, 2016 23:18
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I like this ending and all but it really ticks me off that you don't ever actually get Xenolith as a playable character I mean the ending is just practically screaming it. I have to wonder if they ran out of time or anything, I mean he even has sprites for him using all humanoid weapons in the game.
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Oct 7, 2016 23:30
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Xenolith's Evility stops you from A. Dogpiling him B. Grinding the poo poo out of one character to beat him C. Tanking him and making it a battle of attrition
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Oct 8, 2016 00:12
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Junpei posted:Xenolith's Evility stops you from Seems like a single super-character would still be viable. I mean, in the extreme, you'd basically have a character with stats twice as good as Xenoliths (e.g. a level-9999 character vs. level-whatever Xenolith will be giving 3333 levels' worth of stats to him), which should be enough to one-shot him. Or does the stat-transfer Evility also transfer max and current HP totals? I'll grant that that Evility does mean that he keeps up with being underleveled a lot better than most bosses do.
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Oct 8, 2016 00:34
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What about ranged attacks? Are there any that can hit a target over 10 tiles away? Does he keep stats transferred if the character moves away? Is there anything with negative stats you could use to poison him? Does the transfer include equipment stats? Is the transfer instantaneous or does it occur on your or his turn? Do Passive skills or stats gained from them transfer? Worse case scenario you can grind till you can handle something over 1/3rd your power. You could keep a healer just in range of your character and out of his range, give it enough speed to get a turn, and then just beat on him and heal till he's dead. Does any character have a passive heal evility that can heal 1/3rd or higher of your total HP? Then you don't need a healer.
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Oct 8, 2016 02:21
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Feinne posted:This Evility makes the fight suck so hard. So, every one of our characters within ten tiles has 3% of their stats per tile they approach towards him transferred to him (so 30% if you’re next to him). So, the more characters you’re trying to bring to bear against Xenolith, the more powerful he becomes. It’s also harder to prevent him hitting multiple characters with his attack. So here’s my hard-won strategy, which comes from how my first kill of him ended in practice: My only active characters are Barbara, a damage dealer (in this case my Succubus since she’s ranged), and a healer (in this case my Magic Knight, who’s my most durable healer). Lanzarote is also out, but she just stays away to debuff Xenolith. Barbara always hangs out next to the damage dealer to take the hits instead, and every so often also gets a Counter out of it. Sometimes Xenolith will get saucy and decide to hit your healer, which is why you need to make sure they’re also as durable as possible so they can take that hit. Make liberal use of moving, healing, then cancelling the target’s move to keep your damage camp and the healer on opposite sides of Xenolith and out of risk of him hitting more than one person a turn. This also minimizes his excess stat gain. Did I mention this strategy takes FORFUCKINGEVER? Because it does. Don’t watch that goddamn video unless you hate yourself, eventually I do turn off animations because it was already taking too drat long.
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Oct 8, 2016 02:47
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....he actually was her brother? I kept expecting that to be some dumb fakeout, but it was real? Weird.
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Oct 8, 2016 03:06
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Seems like a single super-character would still be viable. I mean, in the extreme, you'd basically have a character with stats twice as good as Xenoliths (e.g. a level-9999 character vs. level-whatever Xenolith will be giving 3333 levels' worth of stats to him), which should be enough to one-shot him. Or does the stat-transfer Evility also transfer max and current HP totals? In Disgaeas that are not 5, everyone gets really squishy at higher levels due to the weird scaling of offensive stats versus defensive ones. Basically, an Attack stat vs. and equalish Defence doesn't mean poo poo: 30-ish ATK. Vs 30-ish DEF usually results in 30-ish damage. 1000-ish ATK vs. 1000-ish DEF does a lot more. Is that about right, Feinne? Am I explaining the Disgaea Postgame Squishyness Effect right?
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Oct 8, 2016 03:09
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I guess that is supposed to explain how Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Oct 8, 2016 |
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Oct 8, 2016 03:31
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Laharl and Flonne both got several hundred levels during her sleep. I wonder if you could stand still and healtank, while building up power? He was made to be a tank, but he wasn't murdering your guys in one hit like Zenon. Now that guy was mean. Xenolith did have double digit levels.
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Oct 8, 2016 05:04
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FractalSandwich posted:I listened to that interminable end credits song multiple times for you, Feinne. You can't even begin to understand my suffering. Yes I will get to the song lyrics, don't worry. We've got PLENTY MORE to go in this thread. Voting is in fact still open on those DLC characters. Scalding Coffee posted:Laharl and Flonne both got several hundred levels during her sleep. My first kill was actually much more embarrassing than I described as I think of it, I actually had Laharl and Barbara standing next to each other and Laharl would heal her every turn and all my damage was coming from her Counters, because they were literally the only two people alive. He didn't hit very hard because I had absolutely nobody with a good ATK stat even deployed never mind within range for him to steal their stats. If you just try to play him like a normal boss he easily kills like four people in a go because of all the stats he's got from your whole party.
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Oct 8, 2016 23:22
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Feinne posted:Yes I will get to the song lyrics, don't worry. We've got PLENTY MORE to go in this thread. Voting is in fact still open on those DLC characters. 
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Oct 9, 2016 00:33
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Normal service btw will resume in the next few days, taking a breather before starting the postgame. I've counted the current votes and as things stand: The Killer of Kings and Destroyer of Worlds, the One and Only Indestructible Gig 22! Rozalin 11 Nisa 9 Adell 7 Overlord Priere 5 Marona 4 Lilliel 4 Pram 4 Plumiere 3 Raspberyl 3 Mao 2 Salvatore 2 Alex 2 Ash 2 Human Priere 2 the poor unloved Princess of Paprika, Eclair 0 So looks like we'll be seeing Gig for sure, and Rozalin will likely be joining him and Metallia in the first update unless something shifts between now and let's say tomorrow night. Gig's pretty alright and Rozalin's probably strong enough to obsolete Asagi from the team (and just in general has some interesting wrinkles in this since we can actually change her Evility).
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Oct 10, 2016 05:44
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You even counted my bullshit vote? You're much nicer than I would have been.
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Oct 10, 2016 13:12
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Rozalin. Always Rozalin
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Oct 10, 2016 13:29
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You know it still bugs me that they gave us Human Priere rather than Allouette. I mean Allouette, Priere, and Eclair would be a perfect La Pucelle DLC pack. Plus Human Priere ironically doesn't feel like Priere.
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Oct 10, 2016 15:34
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Feinne posted:the poor unloved Princess of Paprika, Eclair 0 I'll vote for you, Eclair. Your game was okay. 
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Oct 10, 2016 16:58
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Just finished marathoning (I say marathoning but I took a few days actually) the previous twenty pages, quite fun and interesting actually. I'm quite curious to see how far into the postgame we'll be going. I presume everything except the super duper unfair hour long multi form boss fight? As an aside, it's not really a big thing, but I noticed that the vending machine thingy (er, or did it have a name?) wasn't shown off yet in the LP. Granted it's a rather small thing so it might not be all that useful. I presume there'll be a disgaea 5 LP some time next year? Well more Disgaea is always good. I think a few weeks ago I went to search the forum for a disgaea thread and didn't find any live ones, so it's nice to see more disgaea discussions (and some NIS in general, and others too)
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Oct 10, 2016 20:16
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MisawaMahoKodomo posted:Just finished marathoning (I say marathoning but I took a few days actually) the previous twenty pages, quite fun and interesting actually. I'll be getting all the characters for sure and finishing up Prinny Land (HARDER THAN YOU WOULD EXPECT) but I'm not killing Baal because there'd be like a loving month hiatus involved in preparing for that because he's kinda horseshit in the more recent games. You will get to see more bananas stuff than I'd normally show off though because the cheat shop is love and life and lets me reasonably do things like get characters with hundreds of thousands of stored reincarnation levels. Feinne fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Oct 10, 2016 |
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Oct 10, 2016 21:57
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Disgaea bananas is a pretty fun kind of bananas. Looking forward to very large numbers.
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Oct 11, 2016 02:23
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Have you tried to equip two muscles to tank the damage from Xenolith? Having a massive amount of HP should overcome his attack and his stats won't get any higher from them.
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Oct 11, 2016 03:35
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Scalding Coffee posted:Have you tried to equip two muscles to tank the damage from Xenolith? Having a massive amount of HP should overcome his attack and his stats won't get any higher from them. You could do it that way as well and cut out the need for Barbara but that's still a strat that has only one damage dealer and therefore is slow as balls. I'm hoping to record in the next couple days had stuff going on and haven't been able to.
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Oct 12, 2016 05:58
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Would any status effects have helped? I mean poison would have been a steady, if small, health loss per turn, and long drawn out battles is when somehing like that shines.
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Oct 12, 2016 19:15
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