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Ghostlight posted:I'd argue that the known-quantity nature of the American presidency, and to a lesser degree the British monarchy, is actually the only reason the role of "leaders" in Civ is seen as restricted to those who've wielded the top position within their nation rather than those who are recognisable as major contributors to its legacy, or mythical leaders representative of the nation's character. Martin Luther King Jr for American leader.
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Oct 12, 2016 02:40
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Cythereal posted:No. The primary grognard meltdown was over Catherine de Medici leading France. They claimed it was because "She's not french at all!"
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Oct 12, 2016 02:44
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:They claimed it was because "She's not french at all!" So they gave Saladin a pass for being a Kurd?
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Oct 12, 2016 03:04
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Khagan posted:So they gave Saladin a pass for being a Kurd? Grogs were pissed at Catherine de Medici leading France because she's a woman. Mostly they refrained from actually overtly saying that, but it's what they meant.
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Oct 12, 2016 03:07
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Khagan posted:So they gave Saladin a pass for being a Kurd? Well yes and also [other leader] for not being [from whatever country] Actually, for real some people did complain about Saladin leading Arabia but this is also a dumb complaint for other reasons
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Oct 12, 2016 03:08
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The Cleopatra reaction was the worst.
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Oct 12, 2016 03:18
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Spergs know only enough that Cleopatra shouldn't lead Egypt because she's "really" Greek, and Alexander shouldn't lead Greece because he's Macedonian.
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Oct 12, 2016 03:18
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It's because Europeans love Civ and they're the worst nativists in existence despite the fact that all their leaders were related and tossed countries back and forth like a tennis match. E: I guess not the worst nativists exclusively, but the worst mix of nativism and nationialism that leads to stuff like "this guy is really X and therefore doesn't count as a leader" Jump King fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Oct 12, 2016 |
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Oct 12, 2016 03:47
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:Well yes and also [other leader] for not being [from whatever country] The main reason why Saladin is the leader of Arabia is they seem to be using Arabia ad a synonym for the Golden Age of Islam writ large and Saladin is emblematic of that
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Oct 12, 2016 03:54
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If this is the case wouldn't Saracen be a more appropriate name for the civ. As of now the devs are feeding into the Arabia = Islam notion if that's the case.
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Oct 12, 2016 04:10
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Clarste posted:Martin Luther King Jr for American leader. Ronald Reagan. Dislikes people who build walls. Likes people who tear down walls.
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Oct 12, 2016 04:14
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Captain Oblivious posted:The main reason why Saladin is the leader of Arabia is they seem to be using Arabia ad a synonym for the Golden Age of Islam writ large and Saladin is emblematic of that it wasn't me complaining
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Oct 12, 2016 04:21
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Edith Wilson is the obvious choice for female US leader
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Oct 12, 2016 04:31
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They could do the Statue of Liberty, though I understand why they might be reluctant after all the BS over de Medici.
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Oct 12, 2016 04:35
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Grapplejack posted:I would honestly really like to see an Israeli civ lead by Solomon, but I don't know how well that would go over with people. Sure, why not? You could avoid the the political issues by calling it Judea.
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Oct 12, 2016 04:41
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Cythereal posted:Eleanor Roosevelt springs to mind as a potential woman American leader. This but Edith Wilson
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Oct 12, 2016 04:42
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StashAugustine posted:This but Edith Wilson You mean Hillary Clinton.
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Oct 12, 2016 04:44
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:it wasn't me complaining Yeah well...gently caress you lets argue anyway!
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Oct 12, 2016 04:46
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Gamesguy posted:You mean Hillary Clinton. That was my suggestion that started this. It almost certainly isn't happening (officially; we may get some mods), I bet, but I'd love November DLC for a Hillary leader pack for America.
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Oct 12, 2016 04:52
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Video of the cleopatra reaction? I keep seeing it brought up.
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Oct 12, 2016 05:34
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Jastiger posted:Video of the cleopatra reaction? I keep seeing it brought up. it's mostly just civfanatics posts and youtube comments, but /i could link a video of a screaming baby if you'd like
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Oct 12, 2016 05:38
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I think the Arabia reaction might have been the worst one, given that last I checked one of the official Arabia videos had its comments disabled. I don't think that was specifically Saladin's fault, though.
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Oct 12, 2016 05:42
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This Catherine reaction was still the highlight of the week it came out for me. http://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/france-catherine-de-medici-thread.571494/page-17#post-14373575 quote:Gender equality: although I personally support the notion that there should be a rough balance between both genders in Civilization’s leaders because there have been many great female leaders throughout history; don’t you think that France – one of history’s great civilizations – should be exempt from this rule?
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Oct 12, 2016 05:50
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I don't think Cleopatra was the best choice for Egypt. She's more famous for her role in Roman history than in Egyptian history. And you've got the really incredible figure of Hatshepsut if you want a female ruler who actually represents Egypt.  That said, Cleopatra's got good historical synergy with the whole personality system so I guess it's fine. Anyone who has an issue with Catherine is just a sexist though, no matter what fig leaf they put up about national origin. Roland Jones posted:I think the Arabia reaction might have been the worst one, given that last I checked one of the official Arabia videos had its comments disabled. I don't think that was specifically Saladin's fault, though.
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Oct 12, 2016 06:00
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Eiba posted:no matter what fig leaf they put up about national origin. People also complained that she wasn't actually ever the leader of france, which is at least somewhat relevant
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Oct 12, 2016 06:07
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Roland Jones posted:That was my suggestion that started this. They've never had anyone alive lead a Civilization, let alone a (soon-to-be) current leader.
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Oct 12, 2016 06:08
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Senerio posted:This Catherine reaction was still the highlight of the week it came out for me. "I like gender equality but doesn't a civilization being great exempt it from having a female leader? makes u think" 
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Oct 12, 2016 06:09
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Eiba posted:I'm assuming that had nothing to do with Saladin and everything to do with the fact that Arabia is a science focused civ. Certain people have something of an interest in... promoting a different narrative. (Racist fucks think Arabs are literal untermensch, and any suggestion that Arabs contributed anything to any civilization is seen as a personal affront to their deepest held Neo-Nazi beliefs.) Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. The other Arabia video (one was international, one non, both effectively identical) had some heinous (and amazingly ignorant of history) comments in it. Zulily Zoetrope posted:They've never had anyone alive lead a Civilization, let alone a (soon-to-be) current leader. Hey, they're breaking other traditions when it comes to leaders with this game. What's one more? (I know it's not happening but I'd love it so much. It'd be hilarious to see the reactions.)
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Oct 12, 2016 06:11
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Putting Hillary Clinton into the game wouldn't be funny it would be groan inducing. I'm hoping that Firaxis doesn't stretch out the DLC as much as possible. They could sell a couple leaders together as a package (like Washington & Lincoln) or sell a new civ with multiple leaders (like Persia with Xerxes and Cyrus).
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Oct 12, 2016 06:24
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I thought they learned their lesson about piecemeal DLC with V, they started with drips and drabs (Spain and Inca) but everyone hated it so they did actual expansions?
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Oct 12, 2016 06:26
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:People also complained that she wasn't actually ever the leader of france, which is at least somewhat relevant Nah, that's dumb because she was regent for many years, de facto ruler for others, and key adviser for more.
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Oct 12, 2016 06:34
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 I've been assuming this whole time that Catherine's inclusion was largely suggested by lead designer Ed Beach's board game work and research into the 16th century. Cleopatra and Saladin have Civilization history already, being in III and IV respectively (and both in the Revolution series). CharlieFoxtrot posted:I thought they learned their lesson about piecemeal DLC with V, they started with drips and drabs (Spain and Inca) but everyone hated it so they did actual expansions? In any case, whatever they've learned in 6 years, they've decided DLC is still worth it. (Though I expect an expansion or two down the line to have whatever systems overhauls and additions they dream up, like a retooled World Congress or whatever.)
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Oct 12, 2016 06:37
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Cythereal posted:Grogs were pissed at Catherine de Medici leading France because she's a woman. Mostly they refrained from actually overtly saying that, but it's what they meant. Wow, insightful and incisive.
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Oct 12, 2016 06:38
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I thought they learned their lesson about piecemeal DLC with V, they started with drips and drabs (Spain and Inca) but everyone hated it so they did actual expansions? I'm sure the DLC reaction had no influence at all on any of their decisions. Those were just the usual people who complain about the concept of DLC, steam, and anything else they see as an affront to whatever imaginary entity they are trying to protect. I think the DLC sold well.
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Oct 12, 2016 06:40
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I think the reason they stopped the DLCs was because the expansions added systems (e.g., religion) that would have caused incompatibility issues if they created DLCs that used those systems. Like if someone had base, but not Gods & Kings, but still bought the Jesus DLC. I wouldn't put it past Firaxis for having it be a programming issue rather than an economic one. Was 5 still using Gamebryo? If so, is 6 using Gamebryo?
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Oct 12, 2016 06:45
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The Human Crouton posted:I'm sure the DLC reaction had no influence at all on any of their decisions. Those were just the usual people who complain about the concept of DLC, steam, and anything else they see as an affront to whatever imaginary entity they are trying to protect. I think the DLC sold well. Really? It was like $5 per civ for a game that was in a terrible state. I am completely frivolous with computer game spending (ask me about pre ordering deluxe editions) and even I didn't go for that.
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Oct 12, 2016 06:54
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The Human Crouton posted:I'm sure the DLC reaction had no influence at all on any of their decisions. Counterargument: Aztec preorder bonus as a timed exclusive released automatically to non-preorders three months after release.
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Oct 12, 2016 06:56
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Any word on if they figured out a way to make "End Turn" take less than half an hour after you reveal the map?
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Oct 12, 2016 06:56
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Aerdan posted:Counterargument: Aztec preorder bonus as a timed exclusive released automatically to non-preorders three months after release. They've already announced that Civ VI is going to have DLC.
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Oct 12, 2016 06:59
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The Human Crouton posted:They've already announced that Civ VI is going to have DLC. *woosh* (Contrast their handling of the preorder bonus this time with their handling of the preorder bonus for Civ5.)
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Oct 12, 2016 07:02
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