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Fangz posted:I've heard this argument about strategic bombing but I'm not overall persuaded. There was a specifically attributable set of shortages in German industry one was the Zulieferungskrise, or sub-components crisis that halted the growth of Luftwaffe production especially hard, but the shortage of ball bearings hit all areas of german industry, there was also the drop in steel production, which fell by 200k tons when it was forecast to rise by 2.8 million which meant that armamemt growth was cut heavily in 1943 due to severe component and material shortfall, Speer himself acknowledged that the strategic bombing campaign effectively ended plans for German armament expansion in 1943 during a speech at the time. You cant draw conclusions about the German economy from the American economy, they were incredibly different in how they were managed, planned and maintained. Polyakov fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Oct 12, 2016 |
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Oct 12, 2016 19:10
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Interesting historical photos: http://imgur.com/gallery/zHRKI Happy French Girl And Her Cat, 1959  The art assembly line of female students engaged in copying World War II propaganda posters, 1942  Black soldiers fighting in France, 1944  King George VI letting his hair down in 1938.  A Group of Samurai in front of Egypt's Sphinx, 1864  German motorcycle courier in Eastern Front, 1942
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Oct 12, 2016 19:15
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Sure, but I just don't really trust statements from Speer by default. 'My plan would have been totally awesome if it wasn't for those lousy allies' is awfully convenient thinking. 5% per month is an insanely fast rate of increase. Even in a command economy I don't think it's sustainable. Historically that might happen for a short period but eventually the problems pile up, see e.g. The Great Leap Forward. My point about the US growth is that even systems that are very different eventually pick off the low hanging fruit and production stops growing so fast. When you run out of consumer products to cut out, resource stockpiles, unemployed manpower, and convertible factories, your progress has to slow. Fangz fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Oct 12, 2016 |
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Oct 12, 2016 19:15
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I want to know more about samurai traveling to Egypt and maybe other places in 1864
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Oct 12, 2016 19:23
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FastestGunAlive posted:I want to know more about samurai traveling to Egypt and maybe other places in 1864 quote:Following the Emperor Komei`s "order to expel barbarians" in 1863, a Japanese embassy left for Europe on 29 December 1863, led by Ikeda Nagaoki, governor of Chikugo Province (Fukuoka Prefecture). Its aim was to persuade France to agree to the closing of the port of Yokohama to foreign trade, and allow Japan to retreat into isolation once more. The mission inevitably failed. In 1864, en route to Paris, the Ikeda mission visited Egypt. The stay was memorialised in one of nineteenth-century photography`s most extraordinary images - the embassy`s members, dressed in winged kamishimo costume and jingasa hats, carrying their feared long (katana) and short (wakizashi) swords, standing before the Giza Sphinx. The photograph was taken by Antonio Beato (c. 1825-1903), brother of the photographer Felice Beato. from here http://www.nicholasreeves.com/item.aspx?category=Research&id=299 There's even a movie about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_Road_of_the_Samurai
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Oct 12, 2016 19:29
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FastestGunAlive posted:I want to know more about samurai traveling to Egypt and maybe other places in 1864
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Oct 12, 2016 19:30
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Hogge Wild posted:
What the, Bren??
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Oct 12, 2016 19:30
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Fangz posted:Sure, but I just don't really trust statements from Speer by default. 'My plan would have been totally awesome if it wasn't for those lousy allies' is awfully convenient thinking. I dont think the claim is a sustained 5%, that graph has a line marking 5% but i didnt make the graph, but the fact that there was zero net growth from that point on when they were trying to wring every last gun and tank out of the system, plus the documented shortages of key manufacturing materials that start with the battle of the Ruhr and never recovers at any point before the end of the war its reasonable to say that bombing had a significant detrimental effect. America started winding down production as the war went on which is what i would guess that you are seeing on that graph of US production.
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Oct 12, 2016 19:32
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Nenonen posted:What the, Bren?? Dude on the right is still rocking a springfield. In 1944. Probably guys from a transportation unit that unexpectedly found themselves in need of more oompf than springfields and carbines, and traded/appropriated what they needed.
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Oct 12, 2016 19:37
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MrYenko posted:Dude on the right is still rocking a springfield. In 1944. Wait, are these even Americans? Free French had Springfields and American helmets. Not sure about Brens but maybe? edit: quick googling reveals that yes, they're French colonial troops http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/black-soldiers-fighting-france-1944/
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Oct 12, 2016 19:39
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Nenonen posted:What the, Bren?? MrYenko posted:Dude on the right is still rocking a springfield. In 1944. The text says: quote:Soldiers from the French African colonies holding a position at Boucle du Doubs, near Besancon, France, winter of 1944. These soldiers are from Senegalese Free French troops. They are armed with a British Bren and an American 1903 Springfield. The helmets are American ones, emblazoned with the anchor emblem of the French Colonial forces.
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Oct 12, 2016 19:41
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I don't recognize the duffel coats but I'm not familair with cold weather gear. E: ^ that'd be why. E2: I really want those scarves and coats, dapper as gently caress OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Oct 12, 2016 |
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Oct 12, 2016 19:43
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Disinterested posted:Isn't the real question with Germany access to resources? Wildly inefficient production methods were also a limiting factor.
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Oct 12, 2016 19:48
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Eela6 posted:
Found it. TO THE EMPEROR VALENS, MAXIMUS, PERPETUUS, AUGUSTUS. ACCORDING to the pleasure of your Clemency, I have arranged in a brief narrative, in the order of time, such particulars in the history of Rome as seemed most worthy of notice, in transactions either of war or peace, from the foundation of the city to our own days; adding concisely, also, such matters as were remarkable in the lives of the emperors; that your Serenity's divine mind may rejoice to learn that it has followed the actions of illustrious men in governing the empire, before it became acquainted with them by reading. It does a pretty decent job, all told, although of course things didn't end up working out too hot for Valens... I also dug up my book of readings in Late Antiquity, so here's some choice quotes on military poo poo: From the Strategikon of Maurice, on equipping elite cavalry. HEY GAL's guys could appreciate this posted:
On a raid across the Rhine in 357. Note the increasingly blurred distinction between Roman and barbarian populations, which are already becoming sub-Romanized. Ammianus Marcellinus posted:
Ammianus again, describing the process by which a tribe could become foedarati. The Limigantes are a steppe tribe from northern Thrace Ammianus, 358 posted:
An unusual punishment for retreat Zosimus, 357 posted:
There's plenty more good stuff if people are interested. I'll post an account of the Byzantine embassy to Attila when I've got some more time.
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Oct 12, 2016 19:52
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], and abandoning the ambuscades which they had laid they fled across the river to bear aid to their kinsfolk. For, as is apt to happen in times of doubt and confusion, they were panicked by the raid of our cavalry on the one side, and on the other by the sudden onset of our infantry, who had rowed up the river in their boats. Upon their departure our soldiers marched on undisturbed and plundered farms rich in cattle and crops, sparing none; and having dragged out the captives, they set fire to and burned down all the houses, which were built quite carefully in Roman fashion.
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Well that explains it. 
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Oct 12, 2016 19:53
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 What's that? It's 1918 and WWI has just ended, a celebratory pyramid for reasons?  Oh. Obelix would be jealous.
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Oct 12, 2016 19:54
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FastestGunAlive posted:I want to know more about samurai traveling to Egypt and maybe other places in 1864 There were even earlier diplomatic missions to America (1860) and Europe (1862). One guy who was a member of both (and generally a Renaissance-man type) wrote a pretty interesting autobiography. It's heavier on his experiences in Japan itself, but there are plenty of fun anecdotes. Here's Yukichi with a photographer's daughter in San Francisco, 1860: 
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Oct 12, 2016 19:56
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Thanks hogge, gal, and hargrimm. Very interesting stuff. I've always been fascinated by historical interactions between different cultures like this, especially earlier than the 20th c
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Oct 12, 2016 20:02
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MikeCrotch posted:Yes, the German economy was absolutely stretched to its limits during WWII, particularly in terms of labour and steel. The intention was the German armaments production would peak by 1939 and would begin to drop off afterwards - as it happened the Germans managed to sustain production via confiscating assets from Poland, France and then the USSR, but once things started to go really south they could not keep up with allied production. It was redlining itself in the 1930s as well. Production of arms was seen as so vital that production was allowed to eat into other fields. Construction of housing, for example was almost completely cut off by steel being directed elsewhere, to the point that the majority of Germany's standing army was living under canvas instead of roofs. The state railway, which is obviously important economically, was allowed to get completely knackered during this time, because Germany wouldn't spare the steel for new railcars, locomotives, or rails. Bad enough all things being equal; worse when you consider that coal was the main source of energy in Germany. It was one of the few industrial inputs they had plenty of, and mountains of coal were piling up at mineheads because the trains were so behind. Coal is also vital for steel making, so a negative effect there, as well... The only thing that kept the Nazis from dumping even more money into armaments was the balance of trade. If Germany ran out of foreign currencies its industry and food production would hard-lock right quick, so in 1939 arms production was forced to decline. The labor situation was similarly messed up. In addition to full employment, the huge number of men going into the military was a further drag on the economy. This progressed to the point that coal miners were being released from military service and sent back to the mines, just so coal production would suck a little less.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:15
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Nebakenezzer posted:The labor situation was similarly messed up. In addition to full employment, the huge number of men going into the military was a further drag on the economy. This progressed to the point that coal miners were being released from military service and sent back to the mines, just so coal production would suck a little less. It also meant that Germany was already maxed out on recruits in its replacement army by the end of 1941.
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Oct 12, 2016 20:24
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Fangz posted:I've heard this argument about strategic bombing but I'm not overall persuaded. How much of that plateau for the US was due to a scaling back of military production?
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Oct 12, 2016 21:13
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Is there a good collection of the really big effort posts in this thread? E.g. I really liked the five page saga on underwater mines ~80 pages back, but am having trouble scanning to find more.
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Oct 12, 2016 21:28
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Fusion Restaurant posted:Is there a good collection of the really big effort posts in this thread? E.g. I really liked the five page saga on underwater mines ~80 pages back, but am having trouble scanning to find more. No. But you can click the '?' under the poster's av to see all of his posts. And you can also use Forums Search, or put site:http://forums.somethingawful.com on google before your search terms.
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Oct 12, 2016 21:36
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Hogge Wild posted:No. But you can click the '?' under the poster's av to see all of his posts. And you can also use Forums Search, or put site:http://forums.somethingawful.com on google before your search terms. Hmm I knew about the ? thing, but actually just clicking that for a bunch of different posters and scanning for the longest posts actually works pretty well. Not totally sure what google search terms to use, but it seems like limiting it to the site + "title of thread" + "effort post" works ok. Thanks!
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Oct 12, 2016 21:40
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Fuligin posted:Found it. That's great
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Oct 12, 2016 21:59
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Fusion Restaurant posted:Is there a good collection of the really big effort posts in this thread? E.g. I really liked the five page saga on underwater mines ~80 pages back, but am having trouble scanning to find more. Here's mine: The Torpedo Battleship The Superposed Turret The Weird and Wonderful World of North Carolina Design Sketches: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Not all are in this thread so I'm linking them like this.
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Oct 12, 2016 22:24
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Since this thread doubles as a codpiece enthusiast gathering place, here's a picture of somebody else very enthusiastic about codpieces: And since we're a week away from the 235th anniversary of the Battle of Yorktown, have this cool Turnbull:  Looks like the Brits forgot to dye their flag   >  (thanks for all the hard work TT, the blog has been great, and now I'm going to go buy the kindle version; also p cool that Thatcher, Pitt the Elder, and Lord Palmerston all post in this thread)
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Oct 12, 2016 22:57
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Fusion Restaurant posted:Is there a good collection of the really big effort posts in this thread? E.g. I really liked the five page saga on underwater mines ~80 pages back, but am having trouble scanning to find more. My good poo poo is mostly in the gold mined previous thread Taiping Rebellion posts Bai Lang's rebellion
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Oct 13, 2016 02:01
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:thanks for posting the loving dumbest quote of all time And yet somehow relevant. Kemper Boyd posted:I think the Patton quote about fixed fortifications is even dumber considering he ended up breaking his dick over the fortifications at Metz. Dumber quite possibly, but at least he was a real person. Hargrimm posted:There were even earlier diplomatic missions to America (1860) and Europe (1862). One guy who was a member of both (and generally a Renaissance-man type) wrote a pretty interesting autobiography. It's heavier on his experiences in Japan itself, but there are plenty of fun anecdotes. Here's Yukichi with a photographer's daughter in San Francisco, 1860: My favorite part of that whole story is that the rest of the men on the expedition were all bragging about the American girls they'd met along the way, each tale getting more exaggerated, until partway through the journey home Yukichi (whose only real vice was alcohol, not womanizing) smugs his way up to them and says something along the lines of 'no one will ever believe your stories, but they'll believe me!' and slaps down the photo.
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Oct 13, 2016 07:19
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About the Nazi manufacturing and industry shitfest: It seems to me that the Nazis were never really in a position to make any sort of structural changes to the way their industrial sector worked, since they relied a lot on the support of the German industrialists, who most likely weren't interested in consolidating production and streamlining in collaboration with their commercial competitors. And these sorts of changes would have to have been done in the thirties, not during the war, anyway.
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Oct 13, 2016 09:12
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HEY GAL posted:a couple samurai travelled to mexico in the 1500s, that was cool Tell me more.
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Oct 13, 2016 11:16
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EE has caught a live one on his blog. Stay tuned! https://tankarchives.blogspot.ru/2016/10/on-german-losses.html?showComment=1476357332584#c4302306601020286189
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Oct 13, 2016 12:16
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Xerxes17 posted:EE has caught a live one on his blog. Stay tuned! 
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Oct 13, 2016 12:36
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Fighting Kremlin-paid trolls with Reichstag-paid trolls?
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Oct 13, 2016 12:42
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I will gladly be a paid troll on tank blogs. Vlad, you know where to find me.
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Oct 13, 2016 14:06
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Xerxes17 posted:EE has caught a live one on his blog. Stay tuned! Haha, I wonder if he's the same person I was arguing with.
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Oct 13, 2016 15:07
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They show up once every so often, but this guy has been posting nonstop since June. He's easily the most dedicated commenter I've had so far. Shame it doesn't help him read a map and not bend over backwards to try and justify that German kill claims should be taken at face value. Obviously if Korner claimed 100 tanks on one day and all Soviet units in that offensive lost 100 tanks over three days, that means the Germans were right, right?
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Oct 13, 2016 15:39
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Yvonmukluk posted:Tell me more. Charles Mann's 1493 goes on a bit how 16/17th century Mexico was basically the center of the world, because it's where Europe, Africa, the Americas and Asia all came together for the first time ever and the world economy kind of hinged on the exchanges there. But also, this: quote:Known collectively as chinos, Asian migrants spread slowly along the silver highway from Acapulco to Mexico City, Puebla, and Veracruz. Indeed, the road was patrolled by them - Japanese samurai perhaps in particular. Katana-swinging Japanese had helped suppress Chinese rebellion in Manila in 1603 and 1609. When Japan closed its borders to foreigners in the 1630s, Japanese expatriates were stranded wherever they were. Scores, perhaps, hundreds, migrated to Mexico. Initially the viceroy had forbidden mestizos, mullatos, negroes, zambaigos, and chinos to carry weapons. The Spaniards made an exception for samurai, allowing them to wield their katanas and tantos to protect the silver shipments against the escaped-slaves-turned-highwaymen in the hills.
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Oct 13, 2016 16:11
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If there isn't a lost Sergio Leone print of that in a vault somewhere then we're definitely living in the wrong timeline.
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Oct 13, 2016 16:18
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hogmartin posted:If there isn't a lost Sergio Leone print of that in a vault somewhere then we're definitely living in the wrong timeline.
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Oct 13, 2016 16:29
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