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Spermy Smurf posted:They havent figured out that I am blackout drunk running the fights too. This explains everything. I just want you all to know that despite Arena Challenge being my favorite thing of all time, I have a very low opinion of all of you, and that will never change. Also, despite never actually creating a fighter or testing a build or even playing Dwarf Fortress successfully, I am fully confident that my fighter will be the best and your fighters will all be dumb nonsense and there's nothing any of you can say that will change my mind.
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Oct 13, 2016 00:10
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Just piping in to say I'm not dead, regardless of what Spermy Smurf would have you believe. Personally I think there is a lot of room for experimentation in the large sweaty wrestler part of the arena, so I'll probably just throw out another Yeti.
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Oct 13, 2016 03:05
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Spermy Smurf posted:They havent figured out that I am blackout drunk running the fights too. It's doubly ironic because while you were just pretending to run fights, we were just pretending to read them!
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Oct 13, 2016 06:22
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I was just pretending to know what I was doing.
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Oct 13, 2016 06:28
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my dad posted:I was just pretending to know what I was doing. Pretending? Well, hello Mister Fancy-Pants~! I wasn't even pretending at not knowing a thing.
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Oct 13, 2016 06:44
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Last time I came in as a member of the second worst team. Allah willing this time we'll be the worst. Watch out Lightly Whipped!
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Oct 13, 2016 06:51
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I think this time I'm going to suggest that my team all make sure to pick a weapon, it seems to be important
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Oct 13, 2016 09:08
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Tirius posted:it seems to be important Jury's still out on that one, tbh
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Oct 13, 2016 14:54
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Weapon Shmeapon
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Oct 13, 2016 18:17
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We'll be doing this on the version with improved combat AI, right?
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Oct 13, 2016 18:22
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Tunicate posted:We'll be doing this on the version with improved combat AI, right? Except for your fighter, of course.
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Oct 13, 2016 19:58
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Did I win yet?
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Oct 29, 2016 01:28
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Spermy Smurf posted:Did I win yet? Haven't received enough bribery to say one way or the other.
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Nov 1, 2016 00:07
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I'm sorry the new tournament isn't ready yet  I'll get around to translating the previously balanced version to DF2016 during this next week. Any and all balance suggestions with an explanation are more than welcome! Also, is forums member My_Dad prepared to give me suggestions on how to balance this new version? I'm not trying to give him an unfair advantage, mind you, nor am I trying to put him on the spot. But he has a better idea than anyone else that I trust on how this all works. Also, if anyone else who has played the new version has suggestions that relate directly to how combat works, those suggestions are certainly welcome as well. Any shitposts which are either tangentially related or barely have anything to do with the above are also welcome. Just please don't go overboard with the shitposting or anything. I'll give you a limit of two or three shitposts per day, depending on how good the shitposts are.  If I'm paying attention.
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Nov 2, 2016 05:44
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OK, I haven't actually played the latest version of DF ( ), which is something I'll look to fixing soon, at least arena-wise.That having been said, I have a couple of ideas based on the last tournament. These will obviously have to be corrected due to any changes in the new version, but make an OK starting point. First of all: Whips and scourges. HOOOOLY poo poo, do whips and scourges ever need a major boost. Right now, they're often a downgrade in comparison to having literally nothing equipped. Not only do they do gently caress-all in terms of causing injuries most of the time and being countered by even fairly light armor, they're actually coded to attack much slower than other weapons, which will, in an otherwise even fight, result in the enemy getting the first hit in (very bad), and getting overall more hits in during a fight (bad), while reducing the amount of time you can parry (bad). They're also coded to be utter poo poo when wielded alongside anything else (very bad). If this can't be fixed in a good way, it might just be for the best to temporarily remove them from the game, since they only serve as a trap for new players. Spears present an interesting conundrum. Due to how piercing damage works, spears don't work too differently from cutting weapons. Unless they're being wielding by something ridiculously strong with a lot of weapons skill. Like, say, a minotaur named Dory. In which case they suddenly have all the best qualities of both sharp and blunt weapons. I actually don't think they need a nerf. In some very specific circumstances, that require a specific build, that makes sacrifices in other areas, on fighters that already get less points than others, they do really well, but are by no means broken. Not having to upgrade from copper means a lot more points to spend on other things, like armor and a second spear, and the skill needed to pierce higher quality armor also helps a lot when parrying. While this looks like it might need some nerfing, it's waay too easy to just kill the usefulness of the idea and reduce the already limited number of options big guys have. Making spears more expensive or their skill cost more would reduce their usefulness to regular fighters, and reducing their penetration ability would just make nobody ever buy them. I say keep them just as they are. That having been said, pikes need a bit of a boost. Right now, they're spears, except two-handed, worse in every way, and more expensive. I'd make them different than spears by giving them slower attacks like whips/scourges do right now, but slightly reducing their contact area, while also slightly increasing their mass and weapon velocity (not the attack speed, mind you, but how fast the weapon impacts the enemy). Like, 20% kind of slightly. It also might be worth doing a skill condensation for spears and pikes, just like the one done with hammers and maces. A simple example of a weakness of Dory's build: You have to make pretty major sacrifices to make it work right, and you have to choose between having a shield, having armor, and being able to dodge. Dory was notably turned into a shish-ketaur via crossbow bolts to the gut in one of the matches, and swiftly dispatched. Speaking of shish-ketaurs, ranged combat. On one hand, incidents like the above clearly show that something about it can work. On the other, everything else says that it, uh, doesn't. So, how to deal with this? I have a bit of a radical solution, that requires somewhat of departure from realism in the name of FUN, which I think is fine because a) DF isn't realistic (see exhibit: reusable M712 Copperhead missiles we refer to as "copper spears wielded by minotaurs" in this game) and b) losing is FUN but not always fun. What's the solution? Well, you know how bows use sword skill for melee and crossbows use hammer skill for it? Why just not turn bows and crossbows into slightly more expensive swords and maces that can also shoot. If you need a mental image, think of those elven swordbows from the Lord of the Ring films, or a crossbow equivalent of this. That way, they won't be useless in melee. That having been said, this won't solve all the problems of ranged fighters. They won't fight in melee if they still have ammo. Step two of the solution is to let people select how much ammo they want to carry. The least complicated solution (read: least work for Jazz) I can think of is just giving every fighter a drop-down list of numbers from 0 to whatever max ammo is. If the fighter doesn't have a ranged weapon, it doesn't do anything. If the fighter does, if gives them X ammo for every ranged weapon they have, in the material of that ranged weapon. This allows for some interesting design options. Do you only give your fighter 1 bolt, to fire an opening shot, and then charge into melee like everyone else? Do you give your whole team 2-3 bolts/arrows so that they can all shoot and stay in formation while the enemy team trundles across the arena, potentially splitting up along the way, and only fighting them after they've been softened up a bit? This still doesn't remove the option of just giving one fighter all the ammo you want for them to keep plinking away at the enemy forever. Incidentally, this also helps deal with shields being (slightly) underpowered and dual wielding being (slightly) overpowered in a way that can't be dealt with just through price modification. Some fighter races need to stand out more. The thing done with werewolves and tigerman is a step in the right direction. Despite being of similar size, they have different advantages and drawbacks, that creat a meaningful choice. Now let's look at the really large fighters. What do minotaurs do? They are really super loving strong. Nobody does really super loving strong better than they do. What do yetis do? They are really super loving huge. Nobody does really super loving huge better than they do. What do trolls do that makes you want to choose them specifically? Uh... Um... Yeah. They need some tweaking. Dump them in a toxic vat and see what mutant comes out. Even weird poo poo like a second head might make them more interesting. In addition, gremlins and gnomes need both a boost and a way to tell them apart. I wouldn't call them underpowered since people really didn't use them enough (and few people used them well, tbh) during the tournament to really judge, but I sure as hell can't tell them apart. I'll repeat my earlier suggestion: Make gremlins really squshy. Like, really loving squishy, with reduced toughness, endurance, and willpower, but give them a few extra points. That way, gnomes will still fill the niche of "super-tiny fighter" while gremlins fill the niche "that thing that dies as soon as something so much as sneezes on it, if the sneeze lands on it before you get stabbed to death" The things I know about the new version: Armor can get damaged. This might help give a solution for the "outfought but takes loving forever to actually die" problem that regular armor sometimes creates. This was so far solved by armor failure chance given to mail and helms (and caps, but they have it by design due to not covering the whole head) which is a clumsy workaround, but the best that could have been done with the tools given. Will have to see if this actually happens within a timeframe of a single fight or if it's more of a "you can't use the same armor for 30 years without repairing it" thing. Fighters will remove head armor from unconsious foes before trying to kill them via headblow. loving finally. The most obvious change from this is that the price of helms might be slashed pretty hard, and the price of caps maybe tweaked a bit, too. Wrestling has proven itself to be a viable strategy in the tournament, and this might help underp wrestlers to a degree, making them less of a gamble. How pain works was changed somewhat, although I don't know exactly how. Hopefully, it helps deal with "death by stubbed toe->coup de grace" problem.
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Nov 3, 2016 14:42
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Talk about shitposts...
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Nov 3, 2016 15:06
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my dad posted:Speaking of shish-ketaurs, ranged combat. On one hand, incidents like the above clearly show that something about it can work. On the other, everything else says that it, uh, doesn't. So, how to deal with this? I have a bit of a radical solution, that requires somewhat of departure from realism in the name of FUN, which I think is fine because a) DF isn't realistic (see exhibit: reusable M712 Copperhead missiles we refer to as "copper spears wielded by minotaurs" in this game) and b) losing is FUN but not always fun. What's the solution? Well, you know how bows use sword skill for melee and crossbows use hammer skill for it? Why just not turn bows and crossbows into slightly more expensive swords and maces that can also shoot. If you need a mental image, think of those elven swordbows from the Lord of the Ring films, or a crossbow equivalent of this. That way, they won't be useless in melee. This is something I agree with in broad strokes, yeah. I lost my old test numbers in a computer move, but I had mocked up weapons to play with this more. I had a slightly nerfed spear weapon that let you throw two javelins before closing, and a "twin axes" weapon where the fighter threw one and immediately charged with the other one. The javelins worked pretty well like archery does now; by making the projectile larger it enhances the throw-the-dice element where you sometimes get a solid hit that really hurts the enemy, and two shots lets you try that and then run to the fight being only a bit late, instead of useless if your first two shots go wide. I was very happy with that ammo number. The axes are even more dramatic. At one throw then joining the fray, it's basically just an axe where you can't fight two-handed or wear a shield, which is its own downside. But the thrown axe often made nasty, but shallow cuts... and occasionally just instantly bisected the enemy like something from Revengeance. You could totally make up other such weapons; due to how the game works you can't really make a simple "thrown weapon" and behind the scenes technically the one axe was launched from another axe, but no reason we couldn't have an atlatl that was a trimmed-down mace or the like.
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Nov 4, 2016 15:53
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If you're going to be changing Trolls, what if you made their skin tougher? I'm not sure how strong DAMBLOCK is but maybe test a few values and pick something that seems like leather armor.
Emmideer fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Nov 5, 2016 |
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Nov 5, 2016 03:41
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you could let them have a big smelly cloud that inflicts nausea on everyone, because they smell and are dumb and ugly
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Nov 5, 2016 18:52
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much like your posts
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Nov 5, 2016 18:53
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Give trolls two extra arms.
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Nov 6, 2016 01:32
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Give them eye lasers.
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Nov 6, 2016 01:36
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Make their bones out of slade.
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Nov 6, 2016 01:36
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Turn them inside out
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Nov 6, 2016 01:39
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Turn their dicks into spears and give them 3 levels of spear as a race bonus.
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Nov 6, 2016 02:35
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Turn gremlins into dicks and give them three levels of dicking as a race bonus.
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Nov 6, 2016 02:37
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Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Nov 6, 2016 |
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Nov 6, 2016 03:27
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Replace trolls with miniature bronze colossi.
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Nov 6, 2016 05:13
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My one not-large concern from the last tournament, and I am hesitant to mention it , is that in such a long tournament the difference in points awarded per fight based on size seemed to get progressively less "fair". Not so much an issue against the tiny characters, but the size difference between the medium and large didn't really feel like it was compensating for the point drop once the mediums got geared and skilled up. This was more based on a general feeling I had at the time rather than any strenuous analysis, and why I am so reluctant to mention it, but the worst that can happen is people can disagree with me and we move on so what the hell.
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Nov 6, 2016 11:49
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Give medium size gladiators bigger dick-spears. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 6, 2016 12:03
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JUUUUUUSTIIIIIIIIICE What a start to a Sunday morning!
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Nov 6, 2016 14:30
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Pickled Tink posted:My one not-large concern from the last tournament, and I am hesitant to mention it , is that in such a long tournament the difference in points awarded per fight based on size seemed to get progressively less "fair". Not so much an issue against the tiny characters, but the size difference between the medium and large didn't really feel like it was compensating for the point drop once the mediums got geared and skilled up. I feel as though this is a larger issue in team fights, where size's advantages get muted by the number of combatants.
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Nov 6, 2016 15:22
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my dad posted:
I ran a lot of test's with mogwai and curiously it was pretty much random outcome. Gremlins are pretty much the RNG champions of arena challenge The thing with gremlins is currently the fact that they die from 1 hit. But at same time they can kill opponents usefulness in 1 hit. and they can dodge opponent attacks for long time or die in first attack. and for some reason in my tests mogwai did a lot more shield bashing, thing that didnt happen in main tournament 
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Nov 6, 2016 15:28
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Just to ask a question, will the new tournament be in a new thread or will it continue in this one? I just finished marathoning through this one and definitely would like to make a terrible fighter that will fail at everything so I can feel better about myself in the next one. With that expectation I have nowhere to go but up!
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Nov 8, 2016 01:41
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Moleboy posted:With that expectation I have nowhere to go but up! Ahahahahaha, oh, my sweet summer child. 
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Nov 8, 2016 02:36
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I still think an interesting variation on the arena would be a PvE version, pitting each gladiator (or a team) against monsters.
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Nov 8, 2016 02:48
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Bad Munki posted:Ahahahahaha, oh, my sweet summer child. He's a moleboy so he can't feel pain.
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Nov 8, 2016 03:15
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Cythereal posted:I still think an interesting variation on the arena would be a PvE version, pitting each gladiator (or a team) against monsters. Seconded. Would we know about what monster will be in all the rounds in advance? Or will it be an announcement just as players spend their points.
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Nov 8, 2016 04:52
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Each monster set is promised to be "New, exciting, and full of DANGER!", only for it to be a single human and his name is JOHN CENA!!!
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Nov 8, 2016 05:08
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Downside to any such thought: now it takes at least twice as long to get back around to your character.
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Nov 8, 2016 05:20
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