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I mean, there's that dude from Bosnia who was all over the world news for fighting off a bear with his bare hands, before finishing it off with a hatchet, but I don't think it's worth naming ships after him. 
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Oct 13, 2016 21:33
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| # ? May 14, 2024 00:25 |
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Yermak Timofeyevich was a Cossack who helped with Russia's conquest of Siberia. Russia wanted furs that were in Siberia. Bears have fur. Therefore, Yermak Timofeyevich conquered bears.
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Oct 13, 2016 21:36
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Yermak Timofeyevich duly noted. Thanks for the help!
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Oct 13, 2016 21:37
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wedgekree posted:Huscarl, Molecular Manipulation, Industrial Expansion, 4th Ship. This logic is sound. Seconded. With the provision that we finally set up a spy agency as our next priority. Espionage will give us an arsenal of new options to take the fight back to the Bulrathi, and this early in the game when they're likely to have few colonies sabotaging their homeworld will especially hurt them. Lamia Domina fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Oct 13, 2016 |
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Oct 13, 2016 22:41
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For bear-handling, there's always this guy.
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Oct 13, 2016 23:29
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nweismuller posted:That, and our industrial expansion is starting to make pollution a long-term issue. Filtering pollution will help us sustain levels of industry that would eventually bite us in the rear end. Plus it's a prerequisite for other nice things. Plus Plus it's relatively cheap.
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Oct 13, 2016 23:44
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Alright I concede that Molecular Manipulation is a good choice, as long as we pick up Tactics right after. I'd hate to see us pick up momentum and then sit in orbit around Ursa for a decade because we forgot to figure out how to put spacemans with rifles in dropships.
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Oct 14, 2016 00:03
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Crazycryodude posted:Alright I concede that Molecular Manipulation is a good choice, as long as we pick up Tactics right after. I'd hate to see us pick up momentum and then sit in orbit around Ursa for a decade because we forgot to figure out how to put spacemans with rifles in dropships. We actually have other ways available with current technology to bring the fight to them! All we need is a Spy Center! We could hypothetically completely destroy the Empire that way, and at a far lower cost in Human lives. All it takes is prepping the Bulrathi serfs and freemen to rise up against the aristocracy... nweismuller fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Oct 14, 2016 |
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Oct 14, 2016 00:12
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Inside every Bulrathi is a good, democracy-loving Republic citizen just waiting to be liberated AND START PAYING TAXES. What's the point in fighting a war if you don't get to take all the other guy's things? (Although I'll admit I haven't really dabbled in espionage much - do planets become much easier to take over when they're in revolt? Because if so causing a revolt and THEN invading sounds way nicer than trying to win a stand-up fight against the best ground combat race in the game.)
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Oct 14, 2016 01:04
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My issue is more I haven't dabbled much in conquest, actually, so I find it hard to answer that question.
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Oct 14, 2016 01:09
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The Bulrathi have a planet advantage on us, and better resource base since their primary planet is large AND rich. Not only that, but they're far better suited to fighting a ground game than we are. We need to punch the bear in the nose to teach him not to mess with us, we do not need to hunt him in his lair. Molecular Manipulation, Industrial Expansion
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Oct 14, 2016 01:11
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We can keep those Bulrathi bearly contained if we bring their presence down to their home system, and then built defensive stations on opposite ends of the wormholes. All we need to do is colonize a planet in both of the connected systems. e: It'd be hella simpler to just permablockade Ursa, but where's the fun and the risk in that?
my dad fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Oct 14, 2016 |
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Oct 14, 2016 01:14
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Seems like the answer to the Bulrathi Question isn't the easiest one. Well, I know that we CAN'T let them continue to exist as an interstellar polity able to challenge us so really how do we go about that? E: I just realized the possible historical connotations inherent to the phrasing "Bulrathi Question" I promise I'm not a space Nazi. At least not a conscious one, I can't speak for the subconscious that made me come up with that. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Oct 14, 2016 |
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Oct 14, 2016 01:20
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The Joint Chiefs of Staff have identified five ways in which the threat of the Bulrathi Empire could be neutered. In all cases, achieving at least some level of space superiority is a necessary first step, then allowing the Republic to push into Bulrathi territory. Once in Bulrathi territory, several cases could obtain: 1) The Bulrathi Empire could be brought to the negotiating table to come to a negotiated settlement that at least restores the status quo ante bellum. This development actually has much to recommend it in minimising the destruction, waste, and loss of life from war, but much depends both on the legislature and the Empire. Once we weaken the Imperial Fleet, they should at least be more reluctant to aggress in the future, while the Republic can cement its technical advantages and maintain a fleet capable of deterring future aggression. 2) The Bulrathi Empire could be placed under long-term interdiction, crippling their ability to field a fleet from their planets while the Republic expands and builds up. This, however, is more useful as a prelude to other cases. 3) Human intelligence and special operations assets could work to cripple Bulrathi industrial capacity and thereby stop them from rebuilding a fleet, along with potentially working to cause a collapse of the Imperial government. If the Bulrathi Empire is shattered into dozens of sub-planetary regional states, this is effectively 'mission accomplished' permanently, and at a lower cost in materiel and Human lives than case four. 4) Major planetary invasions to directly annex the Bulrathi Empire could be attempted, but this is likely to be an extremely bloody and costly process. Incorporating the Empire's territory into the Republic may have some attraction, but the Joint Chiefs of Staff are not optimistic about the cost either in money or in lives to achieve this. 5) Major planetary bombardment to shatter the Bulrathi industrial base and leave them rebuilding in the rubble of their worlds could be possible. The Joint Chiefs of Staff emphasise that they mention this option only for the sake of completeness, but absolutely do not endorse such a strategy. President Helmut Schmidt personally favors attempts to work towards a negotiated settlement, but the Presidency does not have the power to determine foreign policy without the approval of the Senate and the Popular Assembly, so his preferences amount largely to 'attempts to persuade legislators'.
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Oct 14, 2016 02:21
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And so, the representative of the Palatinate district began to speak: Citizens of humanity, on this day we mark a transition. For over a hundred years, the Republic stood as the crowning achievement of civilized beings. Sure, there were those who would set us against one another, but we took arms to defend our rights, and ensured the unity of humanity. Yet in our constant introspection of our society, we never expected the real threat to come from outside. The Bulrathi hoped to unleash their destructive power against the Republic by destroying our outposts and usurping control of the skies above Paradise. The aims of these would-be tyrants must be valiantly opposed by our navy, who shall be tasked to contain the enemy presence to the Ursa system and quell Bulrathi aggression over all other worlds. The remaining Bulrathi ships will be hunted down and defeated. Any orbital facilities will suffer the same fate. These are, indeed, trying times, but we will pass the test. This attack on our way life has left us scarred and afraid, but I assure you that our navy's resolve has never been stronger. I say again, the Bulrathi will be defeated, and their plans of conquest will be foiled. We stand on the threshold of a new beginning! In order to ensure the security and continuing stability, the Republic will need to be reorganized, for a safe and secure society. By bringing the entire galaxy under one law, one language, and the enlightened guidance of one ruling body, the danger of authoritarianism that plagues the galaxy will never take root in our most serene Republic. A strong and growing military will ensure the rule of law. Under the Republic's rule, our most cherished beliefs will be safeguarded. We will defend our ideals by force of arms. We will give no ground to our enemies and we will stand together against attacks from within or without. Let the enemies of the Republic take heed: Those who challenge our democracy's resolve will be crushed! We have taken on a task that will be difficult, but the people of the Republic are ready for the challenge. Because of our efforts, the galaxy will trade war for peace and anarchy for stability. Billions of intelligent beings will be able to look forward to a secure future. The Republic will grow as more planets feel the call, from our humble beginings here on Earth, to the wilds of unknown space. Republic citizens must do their part. Join our grand star fleet. Become the eyes of the Empire by joining the intelligence services. Travel to the corners of the galaxy to spread the principles of democracy to barbearians. Build monuments and technical wonders that will speak of our glory for generations to come! Our starship troopers will tackle the dangerous work of fighting our enemies on the front lines. Many will die in their devotion to the Republic, this is true! But these brave citizens of the Republic will eagerly wish to set themselves as a valiant example for the rest of us. The new order of peace will triumph over the shadowy secrecy of shamful magicians and ruthless brutality of alien despots! The direction of our course is clear. Our navy must lead the Republic to glories beyond imagination. We have been tested, but we will emerge stronger. With the destruction of the feudal warlords of Ursa, we shall move forward as one people - the sovereign citizens of the first Galactic Republic. We will prevail. A future of peace begins today!
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Oct 14, 2016 02:57
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It seems clear to me that interdiction is the policy with the most benefit and the least risk - diplomatically, it would give us valuable clout at the negotiating table; while militarily it achieves the major aim of the war, to safeguard Human worlds from Bulrathi offensives, without wasting the lives and service of our loyal troops on some imperial conquest. The wellbeing of our populace is paramount, and I fail to see how it could be advanced by sending them into the gaping maws of Arcturus Horribilis - or for that matter, how our liberal democracy could hope to justify the forcible annexation of a sullen and hostile occupied nation. As for the bombardment proposal, I will be sure to write down the names of any figures who speak in support of such an atrocity, in case my holiday card list needs some trimming. "Humanitarian" seems rather outdated terminology in this multisapient era...
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Oct 14, 2016 03:09
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my dad posted:Starship Troopers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_7FaWnlhS4
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Oct 14, 2016 03:09
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Also, worst case, we have hulls equipped with Bombs. The Bulrathi, not so much.
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Oct 14, 2016 03:24
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(Industrial expansion, Huscarl, Military Tactics, wait on the 4th ship to relieve Paradise) Senator Titus Jun- Greater Sakhalin-Kamchatka Krai With respect to the speaker from the Palestine Region, I believe hes vastly overestimating the commitment of our people to a long term occupation of a alien species. Bulra is a large world, possibly larger than our own home world. Unlike the colonies on Paradise, Bulra is home to hundreds of dispersed cities, warrens and other fortified strong points from before the unification of the Empire. An invasion would require the conquest of most of these positions, and given the immorality of an indiscriminate bombardment of the planet, we'd be forced to take these positions manually, meaning more deaths for our own people. And to what would be the effect? We can easily achieve a peace and maintain security via a long term interdiction of Bulra without the need to commit ground forces. Perhaps we should focus on the immediate security of the republic before we delusionally envision ourselves as the rulers of the galaxy. The Bulrathi need to be contained and we can do so for a minimal cost. To commit to an invasion is asking all our constituents to sacrifice prosperity, and their loved ones to a nebulous long term and costly occupation on an entire world full of hostile contacts. Would we as humans meekly roll over in submission if Earth were occupied? Of course no, we'd fight tooth and nail and fight even after we'd officially had surrendered. I imagine the Bulrathi and us share that trait in common. Lets no needlessly complicate our first frays into space, some principles of simplicity of necessary.
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Oct 14, 2016 03:43
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Assuming such a thing is up for a vote, I would like to vote for a Neutralization of the Bulrathi fleet. Assuming we can interdict thier main space force we have the advantage. While I would urge bringing them to the Negotiating table, we have no guarantees of thier willingness, much less within the fact that they prepared for an assault upon our space from virtually first contact. Pending that, I also recommend other Senators to be aware that the insertion of Spies into enemy territory is not a guarantor of success either, for we have not even begun to field large scale espionage efforts into alien space. As well as the fact we will also have to protect our own space from Bulrathi efforts at the same. Spies are at best an accessory to disrupting the enemy, but are unlikely to bring the enemy to thier knees alone. Therefore given that we as humans cannot dedicate ourselves to decades, if not centuries of unending warfare nor the barbarism that it would tkae to subjugate or destroy an alien species, I vote for Interdiction as our best strategic policy. Hopefully with a combination o fneutralization of enemy force projection and espionage efforts a truce can be fielded with them.
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Oct 14, 2016 04:58
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Ladies and gentlemen, we are knee deep in an unprovoked war of aggression, one wherein we simply cannot accept any but the harshest of peace settlements, if we negotiate a settlement at all. To accept anything but the complete neutralization of the Bulrathi state, in perpetuity, sends the message that humanity will forgive such betrayal on the part of those we were once prepared to call friends. As such, I have prepared (after consultation with the relevant authorities - military leaders, sociologists, and so on) four goals that compose our permanent answer to the Bulrathi Question. 1. The establishment of a Bulrathi Quarantine Zone. It almost goes without saying that containing the Bulrathi to their home system, and preferably not even allowing an orbital presence around their homeworld, is an essential pillar of any foreseeable end to this conflict beyond a status quo peace settlement (which is obviously unacceptable). 2. The seizure or eradication of any Bulrathi colonies beyond Ursa. This goes hand in hand with the first goal, denying the Bulrathi any bases beyond their quarantined homeworld. In addition, a colonial campaign would allow Republic forces a much needed opportunity to attempt their first large scale orbital bombardments and/or planetary invasions against new, weak, underdeveloped colonies. Now, near-genocidal levels of nuclear bombardment are, for obvious reasons, rather distasteful, so I must personally recommend a ground campaign. The lessons learned in this campaign will no doubt prove invaluable at some point in the future, and would provide much needed data useful in studying the feasibility of attempting landings on Ursa. While the cost in both human and Bulrathi lives may be great, this is an unfortunate reality of war and I see no alternative. 3. The infiltration of Bulrathi government and society. The Republic must quickly move to centralize intelligence and other special assets, for the purpose of waging a psychological, economic, and social campaign against what should by this point be a quarantined Ursa. Although it may take years, decades even, our best hope to permanently removing the Bulrathi as a threat not just to ourselves but to our children and all future generations is destabilizing the Bulrathi government and society on an immense scale. The most likely result of this will be a splintering of the current imperial government on Ursa and a regression to multiple competing warlords/states that should efficiently keep each other contained through competition. 4. The potential reunification of Ursa on our terms Once the Bulrathi colonies have been neutralized and Ursa shattered, our primary goal of containing the Bulrathi will be complete. The most pragmatic action in this situation is to simply walk away and let them spend the next few centuries killing each other, but depending on the results and lessons of the colonial campaign, there may one day come a time when the Republic finds itself in a position to restore order on Ursa. If one or more of the sub-planetary states that arise share similar values to our own (likely formed by former serfs and freemen that have managed to overpower the local warlords), efforts should be made to at the very least indirectly support them. If it would not be too costly in human lives, lending direct military assistance in reunifying the planet under a much friendlier government (or even as a member of the Republic) is the best long-term strategy for humanity. -Excerpt from Senator Lyle Walker's speech introducing his "Four Point Plan" for the Bulrathi War. (In gameplay terms the first to are pretty self-explanatory, the 3rd and 4th are causing a revolt and then - assuming the game actually lets a species' last planet stay in revolt forever because there aren't any Marines coming from elsewhere to put it down - potentially launching a ground invasion if revolts make planets easier to take/we find through the colonial campaign that the Bulrathi aren't really as tough as they look on the ground)
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Oct 14, 2016 06:04
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Crazycryodude posted:Inside every Bulrathi is a good, democracy-loving Republic citizen just waiting to be liberated AND START PAYING TAXES. What's the point in fighting a war if you don't get to take all the other guy's things? (Although I'll admit I haven't really dabbled in espionage much - do planets become much easier to take over when they're in revolt? Because if so causing a revolt and THEN invading sounds way nicer than trying to win a stand-up fight against the best ground combat race in the game.) Planets in revolt leave the controlling empire for a number of turns (20 I believe) and then rejoin. During their time outside the empire they do not produce but maintain their regular defenses. You can end a revolt sooner by invading them to get them to rejoin or another player can conquer them as well. It is possible to eliminate an enemy empire by putting all of their planets into revolt. I did this once as the Darloks to an enemy empire reduced to two planets. The planets then stay on revolt status forever until another group reoccupies them. Unless this has been changed since the beta I played that game in. It is unlikely to be a workable strategy in this case. Revolt missions are difficult. Usually they will fail. Getting them to succeed simultaneously on all Bulrathi worlds to put them all in revolt is a long shot crapshoot. In any case it would take a lot of spies which take time to train. Even if reduced to one world it will most likely take a long time to get a successful revolt going.
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Oct 14, 2016 07:31
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Can we send sleeper agents to them? I approve of that. Also, don't kill the bears. Make them a high autonomy vassal or something instead. 
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Oct 14, 2016 09:17
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4) Major planetary invasions to directly annex the Bulrathi Empire Space bears betrayed our trust. We must ensure they will never try to do so again. Annex the aliens and integrate them into our space empire.
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Oct 14, 2016 10:48
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My fellow citizens of the Republic, we must not forget who we are and what we stand for. Is violence and brutality the only way? Must we ape the ursinoids, monkey see, monkey do, monkey rule by force? No. Are we not Humans? Are we not better than brute beasts who use violence as the easy answer? We must strive for the harder path, the better path. Let us not impose an empire. Let us, once we have slapped these violent opportunists back down to their planet, extend the open hand of peace once more, not in conquest but in rejection of conquering, theirs and ours. Make no mistake, Humanity will be pre-eminent in the galaxy. But we will not need to resort to the crude and barbaric overthrow of entire species to do it. Brains, not brawn. Subtlety, not subjugation. By all means, be vigilant, overtly and covertly. Shape things with a careful hand if required. But let our overriding, overarching message be that we can coexist!
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Oct 14, 2016 11:35
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After we annex them we must make them build a wall and pay for it!
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Oct 14, 2016 11:40
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I know this vote will be lost to time due to the huggy feely types but: Bulrathi delenda est!
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Oct 14, 2016 14:19
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I think we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves with the voting, it's not an official vote yet. Hell, for all we know the Bulrathi will pull another dozen frigates out their asses and walk all over us. Senator Lyle is totally gonna war hawk it up and demand annexation, though Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Oct 14, 2016 |
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Oct 14, 2016 14:31
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Yeah, I wasn't asking for a vote, but I was asked what long-term options we had to end the threat presented by the Bulrathi Empire. So I provided a list of options that could work.
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Oct 14, 2016 16:34
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Well, I voted so deal with it 
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Oct 14, 2016 16:56
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Can we force the Bulrathi to accept ludicrous demands like giving us one of their planets if we beat them hard enough? If so, I vote for a mix of options 1 and 2: Let's interdict the poo poo out of their fleet and then park ships over every planet they own and wait until they are willing to give us anything to get back to peace. Basically let's expand the Bulrathi Quarantine Zone to encompass every single system the Bulrathi own.
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Oct 14, 2016 17:40
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The major planetary bombardment option should be referred to as an establishment of a 'no fly zone' over Bulrathi worlds; in keeping with our humanitarian instinct.
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Oct 14, 2016 23:58
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1488 posted:The major planetary bombardment option should be referred to as an establishment of a 'no fly zone' over Bulrathi worlds; in keeping with our humanitarian instinct. Except, uh, that wouldn't be what we're doing. No matter what you dress it up as it'd be carpet nuking the place from orbit - might as well just say it.
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Oct 15, 2016 00:07
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Also, do you want mass resignations from the Joint Chiefs of Staff? That's how you get mass resignations and a military paralysed by rapid promotion of careerist lickspittles to the top ranks. Seriously, don't do it, it's an exceedingly dumb idea.
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Oct 15, 2016 00:19
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I can't remember- is it possible to only bomb infrastructure?
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Oct 15, 2016 00:33
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CommissarMega posted:I can't remember- is it possible to only bomb infrastructure? Don't think so (I've certainly never seen one but then I really just don't use bombs in the first place), that seems like it would make it way too easy to invade planets. Just ticking the box that says "only kill infrastructure" and glassing the place would kill off any defenses so you can take it with one Marine but leave all those precious pop units untouched - collateral damage against civilians is a necessary balancing mechanism. Plus it doesn't really make sense to somehow be able to nuke the hell out of a planet's industrial base/military infrastructure and not hit the large cities said targets are presumably in/near.
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Oct 15, 2016 00:48
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Nope. Orbital bombardment is for high-yield mass destruction. Presumbly there are precision strikes during the course of a ground invasion, but that's below the level of simulation in the game. Our bombs are basically to hammer pirate bases and maybe wreck up hostile offworld infrastructure.
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Oct 15, 2016 00:49
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Crazycryodude posted:Don't think so (I've certainly never seen one but then I really just don't use bombs in the first place), that seems like it would make it way too easy to invade planets. Just ticking the box that says "only kill infrastructure" and glassing the place would kill off any defenses so you can take it with one Marine but leave all those precious pop units untouched - collateral damage against civilians is a necessary balancing mechanism. Plus it doesn't really make sense to somehow be able to nuke the hell out of a planet's industrial base/military infrastructure and not hit the large cities said targets are presumably in/near. However, the game allows you to do the opposite. Virus bomb the planet, and then resettle it with your species without damaging all that delicious infrastructure.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:09
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my dad posted:However, the game allows you to do the opposite. Virus bomb the planet, and then resettle it with your species without damaging all that delicious infrastructure. We are not doing that. Period. Just saying.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:11
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nweismuller posted:We are not doing that. Period. Just saying. I mean, maybe in the Darkest Timeline where we turn into the Khanate after the Bulrathi sneak attack we do.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:17
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