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Okay, someone remind me what I'm missing here, because it's seriously driving me crazy. I was playing episode 3, and just finished dismantling Rayfa's vision by proving the existence of a 3rd person at the ritual site. But then my battery ran out. Now I'm trying to get back to where I was, and I'm stuck. There's some contradiction I'm missing right before she refines the vision so you can see the lamps more clearly and it's infuriating that I can't remember what it is, since I clearly did it before. PS: AA4 is the weakest game in the series, no question, but none of the things holding it back have to do with Apollo himself so I've never minded playing as him in the following games. It helps Athena is also my favorite of the sidekicks because she's less of a 'sidekick' and more of a 'person who actually has a legitimate reason to be accompanying the defense attorney on a capital case.'
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Oct 15, 2016 00:13
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Rangpur posted:PS: AA4 is the weakest game in the series, no question, but none of the things holding it back have to do with Apollo himself so I've never minded playing as him in the following games. It helps Athena is also my favorite of the sidekicks because she's less of a 'sidekick' and more of a 'person who actually has a legitimate reason to be accompanying the defense attorney on a capital case.' I don't think anybody really disliked Apollo, and nobody minds playing as him. To be honest I enjoy playing as him more than Phoenix at this point, since he feels like he's got more of a personality. The problem, as I recall, with Apollo in AA4 was that Phoenix kinda ended up taking over as the main character, particularly in the final case. Even ignoring the fact that Phoenix took control during most of the game's climax, Phoenix and his actions were most of what drove the plot forward, so Apollo just got completely sidelined in his own game.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:05
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I've been flipping through the artbook a bit more and I appreciate that one of the concept designs for Datz was just literally El Che. A design for Dhurke also had a bit of inspiration from Che. Also at one point, Gaspen was just going to be cosplaying Edgeworth lol. Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Oct 15, 2016 |
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Oct 15, 2016 02:05
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Rangpur posted:Okay, someone remind me what I'm missing here, because it's seriously driving me crazy. I was playing episode 3, and just finished dismantling Rayfa's vision by proving the existence of a 3rd person at the ritual site. But then my battery ran out. Now I'm trying to get back to where I was, and I'm stuck. There's some contradiction I'm missing right before she refines the vision so you can see the lamps more clearly and it's infuriating that I can't remember what it is, since I clearly did it before. Remember that one of the lamps is broken and that you can see the wind blowing the flames Also if you already got past that, you have to prove that the high monk was able to turn around while reading the scripture That whole vision was annoying, I was guilty 3 times while dissecting it.
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Oct 15, 2016 02:09
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The worst part about that Insight is that you can't select the blowing flames, you have to select the lamp even though where you're actually pointing hasn't materially changed.
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Oct 15, 2016 02:13
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smenj posted:I don't think anybody really disliked Apollo, and nobody minds playing as him. To be honest I enjoy playing as him more than Phoenix at this point, since he feels like he's got more of a personality. The problem, as I recall, with Apollo in AA4 was that Phoenix kinda ended up taking over as the main character, particularly in the final case. Even ignoring the fact that Phoenix took control during most of the game's climax, Phoenix and his actions were most of what drove the plot forward, so Apollo just got completely sidelined in his own game. It's funny how Apollo has become the most layered and complex character in the series when he didn't even get the spotlight in his own drat game, but I'm sure not complaining. e: one thing I'd wish they'd explore is how the events with Kristoph changed him but by this point I think it's too late. ROFL Octopus fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Oct 15, 2016 |
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Oct 15, 2016 05:22
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Phoenix's backstory: I had friends in elementary school and my ex tried to kill me Apollo's backstory: I grew up in east Asia as the adopted son of a disgraced member of the royal family after my birth father was killed in an assassination that never actually happened and my birth mother, a member of a troupe of magicians who lost her eyesight and memory in a tragic accident and also birthed my mentor's daughter, disappeared, then I came back to America where my best friend and I dreamed about going to space and developed a system for dealing with our shared anxiety.
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Oct 15, 2016 05:27
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I don't think Apollo needs any more of his issues explored at this point, he's fine.
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Oct 15, 2016 05:29
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if they're sensible the next game will be Athena heavy since shes the only attorney with real room to grow without upending the status quo
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Oct 15, 2016 05:33
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If they're sensible the next game will be Apollo-centric since Apollo is the coolest and goodest. Athena can do cases with him as a sidekick, since he's also good in that role.
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Oct 15, 2016 05:43
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wait i suppose apollo still has trucy being his sister and lamiroir his mother unrevealed that kids life is a mess, geez
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Oct 15, 2016 05:44
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Cake Attack posted:wait i suppose apollo still has trucy being his sister and lamiroir his mother unrevealed I can't imagine a way at this point for Phoenix to tell him and not get punched in the face for not saying so sooner. It's a legitimate betrayal and the longer the writers hold off on actually resolving it the worse it gets.
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Oct 15, 2016 07:15
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Make it a callback to case 4-1 and have Apollo shout "Take that!" when he punches him.
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Oct 15, 2016 07:25
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TheKingofSprings posted:I can't imagine a way at this point for Phoenix to tell him and not get punched in the face for not saying so sooner. It really should've been the first thing that happens in AA5.
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Oct 15, 2016 07:42
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TheKingofSprings posted:It's a legitimate betrayal and the longer the writers hold off on actually resolving it the worse it gets. I think I know of an assassin who just might be willing to take the case...
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Oct 15, 2016 10:51
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Cake Attack posted:if they're sensible the next game will be Athena heavy since shes the only attorney with real room to grow without upending the status quo I hope so too. Though I still like the multiple attorneys thing DD and SoJ has had. So i'd be down for a game with Athena in 3 cases and Apollo in 2. Athena'd be pretty easy to grow as well since she's got her whole time in Europe that could be expanded upon like how Apollo got extra backstory for his childhood each game. TheKingofSprings posted:I can't imagine a way at this point for Phoenix to tell him and not get punched in the face for not saying so sooner. Well if he tells him over the phone he might avoid the punch for a bit. But it won't matter because we all know Apollo and Trucy will find out when Lamiroir is killed and Apollo gets accused for it.
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Oct 15, 2016 12:25
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I hope so too. Though I still like the multiple attorneys thing DD and SoJ has had. So i'd be down for a game with Athena in 3 cases and Apollo in 2. Athena'd be pretty easy to grow as well since she's got her whole time in Europe that could be expanded upon like how Apollo got extra backstory for his childhood each game. Phoenix won't even tell him, he'll just let Apollo figure it out during the case.
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Oct 15, 2016 15:06
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I just like that they waited until (SoJ endgame spoilers) Apollo had basically moved away to another country entirely before deciding that maaaaybe we should let him know he has a sister and his mum's still alive.
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Oct 15, 2016 16:22
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So, here we go, a list of various feelings I had about the game. These probably will be a bit disorganized since I’m writing down my thoughts as they come to me, but I hope they’re enjoyable. Edit: Wow, I wrote up a lot more than I thought.  --- I'm of mixed feelings about Nahyuta. On one hand, I really like him and his role as a prosecutor. He makes a good antagonist in the courtroom and I enjoy how his animations go from subtle to extreme when he's angered. It's also refreshing to see someone with respect for authority. He's polite not only to the judge, but also compliments Ema on her work. I appreciated that. But I wasn't a fan of him telling the defense and defendants to go to Hell. That was way out of line. I also didn't like that his "that was the second time" shtick got dropped. They really should have done more with that, given that a proverb about a Buddhist monk giving you three chances was the source of inspiration for his name. Maybe if he only got really aggressive and hostile when you pissed him off I'd be able to accept it more. It's also really annoying that he never doubts himself or apologizes for his rash words. That's a lot of really heavy stuff saying that you'll send someone to Hell, you know? Not something you should say lightly and ignore. Made even more annoying by the fact that he should be supportive of the defense's ability to find the true culprit given how seriously he takes his last rites. It'd be one thing if he got annoyed by their bluffing or grew hostile due to lack of evidence and went back to his original claims, but they didn't go that route bafflingly. Also, "A dragon never yields", he says. After years and years of yielding to Ga'ran. Nahyuta, please. --- So, while I liked Case 5 of SoJ and think it was a strong case overall... it felt both strong and weak at the same time. Dhurke was great, Apollo becoming an Ace Attorney Super Saiyan was great, a lot of the mystery and build-up was great. My favorite detail in the case has to be the jet L’Belle hair dye. It’s what Amara uses to disguise her hair color when channeling Inga and Dhurke. And, if you recall Dual Destinies, it also washes out incredibly easy with water or other moisture. That kind of continuity nod was absolutely stellar. Jove Justice also kind of lined up with the details we got on him from Spark Brushel in the fourth game, though Spark said he died during a performance. Kind of weird he had Apollo on-stage with him instead of a guitar, but I can overlook that. There’s also the matter of Rayfa’s nicknames for Phoenix and Apollo: Barbed Head and Horned Head. These are very distinct features of theirs and she refers to them continually. When you factor in that Inga has a list of features to identify people as and also refers to Phoenix as “spiky-haired attorney” at one point, you could see that as a game long foreshadowing of Inga’s condition. Undoubtedly, Rayfa is parroting his manner of referring to people. That’s a nice detail. But then you have issues like the first half of the case being a retread of 2-4 without any of the emotional value, especially since Maya is barely in the game as is and on replays you know she’s not even in danger. There’s also the issue of things like Inga’s plan for the Founder’s Orb never being expounded upon. What did he want it for? I would surmise he wanted it for Rayfa given that she mentioned not having much spiritual power yet, but it’s still annoying we never get it spelled out for us what his intentions are. He seemed to love her given that he kept that photo of her in his vault. That provided a source of irritation for me as well, though, since we never see Rayfa really come to grips with her father figure killing her actual father. I don’t think she really even talks about Inga towards the end. There was also the issue of Nahyuta’s confession that he killed Dhurke. How did that even hold up in court? There was no way for him to hide at the scene of the crime or even leave without someone noticing him and yet this is never even addressed. That kind of hurt my enjoyment of Ga’ran as a villain given that she didn’t quite feel intimidating as an adversary, but intimidating as someone who could just bullshit new rules on the spot. I also hate how she’s so... overly evil. Like, they couldn’t have made it more obvious that she was the final villain. During the whole cross-examination with Amara where Apollo is accusing her of being the murderer, I was just rolling my eyes the whole time because come on. And I have no idea how she killed Inga while disguised as Dhurke without him noticing that fabulous rack. --- The DLC had some good parts, but all in all, I thought it was pretty meh. The reveal of the true villain was pretty hype, but then instead of becoming a badass surgeon or something, he just goes “LALALALALALALALALA, I CAN’T HEAR YOU! OOPS, TIME FOR THE VERDICT! DON’T LISTEN TO HIM EVERYONE!” Really killed my enjoyment of his character. And the last part where it’s revealed that Pierce killed that guy with the clock... I’m not going to lie, I had to look up which part of his testimony was wrong, because come on. “I was always in the company of others.” does not necessarily hold false when he’s in a reception photo with other people, even if he is off to the sidelines. Also, you can’t tell me that he could pick up the object that was the centerpiece of the wedding, go over to one of the Pegabulls, beat someone savagely over the head with it, close the item, return it to its spot, and continue on as normal without anyone noticing his movements/sounds or without Gloomsbury making a sound. --- The best villain in the game was Mr. Reus and I will fight you over this opinion unless your counterargument is Paul Atishon. --- Apollo’s sections felt really strong, I think. He got the best portions of the game, and I was glad that they FINALLY had an idea of what they wanted to do with him. Granted, I’m not in love with how every new AA game is intent on giving him a new layer of sob story to his history. “Oh, my parents are dead/amnesiac.” “Oh, my friend died.” “Oh, my dragon dad died.” Come on, now. He also has waaaay too many convenient ties to the plot of whatever game is going on. Even Phoenix wasn’t tied to every major case in his trilogy. --- Phoenix’s sections felt really lacking in direction. I mean, they really had no idea what to do with him in this game save for nostalgia baiting. He goes to Khura’in to visit Maya, only he shows up a few weeks early and conveniently stumbles across a crime that happens at that time. Then, he meets up with Maya again and she gets accused of murder, just like in the Trilogy, after which he saves her. And then she gets kidnapped, just like in the Trilogy, and he has to argue in favor of a killer in court. And then there’s the DLC case where you have Larry, Edgeworth, and Maya doing their old thing... just like in the Trilogy. I’m also not a fan of how Phoenix lost his poker face from Apollo Justice ever since he became an attorney again. Seeing him make that dumb shocked face so often really bothers me because he shouldn’t be that green anymore. Maybe Phoenix should just get one or two cases a game from now on and leave the cases to the newer blood? They have reason to act inexperienced and they could use the development. --- Athena’s section was rather nice. I’ve heard people saying that her case is the worst in the series and yeaaah no. Turnabout Big Top and Turnabout Serenade are still going strong. I liked Turnabout Storyteller a lot due to the interactions between Athena and Blackquill. She gets a lot of fun interactions with people, and I’m eager to see her grow as a character. I really liked how she got Owen to open up with her; it reminded me of Mia talking to Phoenix in the first case of the third game. There’s a potential for her to be as good as Mia when she finally starts getting some cases. That being said, I really hated how she had to rely on Blackquill the whole case. It’s good that she didn’t just re-use that breakdown animation from the previous game where she freezes up in court (even though I think it’d be weird if it never happened again in her solo title), but it felt like she basically had no idea what she was doing. She’s been behind the bench before, even if only as the lead attorney once! I also didn’t like how they kept using Trucy as an excuse to keep her out of the events of the DLC. I mean, geez, only using Trilogy characters for the DLC? I know Ema was in AJ, but she was added into AA1 post-production, so I still consider her one. I really wish Trucy would grow up and stop acting like such a brat all the time; I liked how they handled her in Case 2. It felt like a return to form for how she was in the fourth game. It was also nice to see Mr. Hat again, though I wouldn’t mind if I never saw the words “magic” and “panties” in the same sentence ever again. Also, I’m really annoyed how triggered people seem to be by her using the term “microaggressions” in Case 2. It’s a psychiatric term, not something Tumblr coined! --- The best villain in the game was Mr. Reus and I will fi- Oh, sorry, did I say this earlier? And not all that long ago? STOP WITH THE loving FLASHBACKS EVERY FIVE MINUTES, CAPCOM, HOLY poo poo --- In regards to culprits, I'd say they were all good, barring Pierce becoming really annoying at the end. My only complaint is that every culprit has a transformation into an evil side now as well as a theatric breakdown. I mean, what happened to the old days where a person was just a person? I think the only people who "transform" in the first game are April May and Yanni Yogi. In the case of the first, she just gets angry and in the case of the latter he just stops pretending to be insane. Those were both pretty subtle shifts, all things considered. And don't get me wrong, I love breakdowns, but I miss the subtle ones like Acro crying or Dee Vasquez breaking her pipe. If those were done now, Acro's would probably do a wheelie all over the courtroom before crashing through a wall or something. That's part of the reason I got taken out of Geiru's breakdown so much because it goes from "lol her breasts really were balloons" to trying to paint her in a sympathetic light. A bit more tonal awareness would be nice. --- Stop teasing me about Trucy and Apollo being siblings and just tell them already! --- In the end, I’d say T&T > I2: PP > AA > SoJ > DD > JFA > I1: ME > AJ Edgeworth > Blackquill > Nahyuta > Godot > The Franz > Klavier 6-2 > 6-5 > 6-4 > 6-3 > 6-1 > 6-DLC Lurdiak posted:?????? Eve was the worst villain in an Ace Attorney game. She couldn't even have a breakdown properly.  Zulily Zoetrope posted:Make it a callback to case 4-1 and have Apollo shout "Take that!" when he punches him. Make him present his fist first. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Oct 15, 2016 |
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Oct 15, 2016 16:54
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I'm glad people agree with me in the very weird statement but true that case 2 is the best case in this game
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Oct 15, 2016 17:30
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I wouldn't say Case 2 is the best case in the game, because I love case 5 so goddamn much, but it does have easily the best villain in the game, possibly my new favorite in the series.
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Oct 15, 2016 18:35
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Case 2, for me at least, certainly didn't have the highest highs in the game, but I'd agree with it being the best constructed case in the game. That is to say, I enjoyed it all the way through, the villain was fantastic, and I don't really have any complaints or even minor niggles about it, aside from maybe one or two things max I found a mite odd. Just a good case all-round. So, yeah, I can certainly see an argument for it being the best.
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Oct 15, 2016 18:43
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I'm on board for calling case 2 the best in the game. The culprit even looks suspiciously like a former colleague of mine, in looks and attitude as well. It felt like I finally got to punch him in the face after all these years.
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Oct 15, 2016 18:51
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jarbv posted:Remember that one of the lamps is broken and that you can see the wind blowing the flames I don't mind the seances so far though, it's a useful exercise in demonstrating a visual record can be accurate but misinterpreted. No, it's the testimony from Ah'non Imus TBD that nearly broke me. Testimony that unreliable can actually be the hardest to disprove just because there's so many angles to attack it from, but you have to figure out the specific point the game's decided is the one true contradiction. Diggin' it so far, all the same. Is the DLC case worth the money? I loved the one from DD.
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Oct 15, 2016 19:36
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Rangpur posted:
I didn't like the AA6 DLC case quite as much as the AA5 one but I still liked it a lot.
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Oct 15, 2016 19:43
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:
What the actual gently caress. I was with you this far, but this may well be the worst opinion I've ever seen posted in this thread.
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Oct 15, 2016 21:55
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:What the actual gently caress. Truth. I know people hate Klavier but he was at least fun and bursting with personality. There is almost nothing to Nahyuta.
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Oct 15, 2016 22:20
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I liked Nahyuta as a prosecutor. He felt like he generally had control over the proceedings and his sillier moments like reciting a rakugo skit while Athena sweats in the background were pretty great. I seem to recall Godot's contribution as a prosecutor was just going "Prove it.  " over and over.That being said, Godot has him beat personality-wise.
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Oct 15, 2016 22:24
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I actually don't think I ever remember a prosecutor raising a point I thought was really smart or a contradiction or game-changer that didn't involve pulling new evidence out of their rear end. "Never" is a hyperbole, but I very rarely feel like cool deduction is actually done on the part of the prosecutor. I never feel like I'm in too much of a battle. I liked Nahyuta initially, I really enjoy the concept of a recurring villain prosecutor who is an outright baddie who dislikes you. That's not the way AA does things though.
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Oct 15, 2016 22:32
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Prosecutors could be handled better, I'll agree on that front. I really hate how Dual Destinies was all "Oh no, I fell into his carefully laid trap!" with Blackquill when he's doing literally nothing different from the previous prosecutors.
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Oct 15, 2016 22:33
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"Hey, you should confess." "Sure." "MASTER OF MANIPULATION"
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Oct 15, 2016 22:37
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It's good when Blackquill questions whether Jinxie is a reliable witness since she is clearly freaking the heck out and can't give proper testimony about whether youkai are real, in order to convince the defence to calm her down by showing her fears to be false, thus proving that youkai aren't real.
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Oct 15, 2016 22:39
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I do think the games have definitely gone a bit too far with the whole 'Dig a bit into the case, arrive at some conclusion which somehow makes the defendant look even more guilty, defence goes bananas because THE PROSECUTOR HAD IT ALL PLANNED OUT FROM THE BEGINNING' shtick it's had going with a big chunk of the cases as of late. It works sometimes, but for the most part it ends up amounting to the prosecutor knowingly making completely false statements and a case that's completely inaccurate just so the defence will look a bit worse later when they finally figure out the 'real' truth of it all. Makes you wonder why they don't just tell what they think to be the truth of the case from the start - especially since whatever it is usually makes your client look guiltier than they had at the beginning of the trial!
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Oct 15, 2016 22:54
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Speaking of Jinxie, I tried to replay The Monstrous Turnabout, but I just can't get into it because "There's a Tenma Taro suit!" "Of course, that makes sense." "Thereby, the defense asserts that Tenma Taro was the killer!" "You believe in yokai? What are you, a dumbass?" "N-no, I meant the person in the suit was the killer." "GASP!?" Did that really need to be spelled out? 
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Oct 15, 2016 22:54
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I like Nahyuta when he's talking about the punishments you'll get to experience in the twilight realm that's about it
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Oct 15, 2016 23:15
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Godot wrapped up both of his non-final cases by pointing out that you'd certainly proven the witness was full of poo poo, but you hadn't actually done anything to connect them to the murder. I like case 4-2, but Klavier's final objection being "the victim would logically have taken his car" was piss weak compared to Godot's.
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Oct 15, 2016 23:43
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Prosecutors could be handled better, I'll agree on that front.
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Oct 15, 2016 23:47
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Irony Be My Shield posted:It's good in that he actually had arguments for why the defendant was guilty at most/all points of trials. As opposed to spending half of the case with your client obviously innocent. The worst instance of this is still the last case of Vs. Layton.
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Oct 15, 2016 23:49
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Godot has Nahyuta beat personality-wise because he actually had one outside of the courtroom. Behind the prosecutor bench, he was just as infuriatingly bad as Nahyuta, though for different reasons.
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Oct 16, 2016 00:20
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:The worst instance of this is still the last case of Vs. Layton. I haven't played it yet, is it worse than 4-3, where it's literally impossible for the defendant to have committed the crime?
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Oct 16, 2016 00:30
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