a victory for liberty over tyranny

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > a victory for liberty over tyranny

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

Mr. Nice! posted:

McVeigh didn't rent the truck under his own name and used a fake name instead. They were still able to ID him eventually.

He actually got arrested only 90 minutes after the explosion because he was driving around without a license plate and illegally carrying a concealed weapon. The investigation into his identity took place while he was in jail. The big thing that got him identified is that he had shown up at a local motel driving the big yellow Ryder truck and got distracted, accidentally signing his own name instead of a fake one. They managed to take him into federal custody within 2 days of the explosion.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 19:04

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# ? May 11, 2024 17:42

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

chitoryu12 posted:

He actually got arrested only 90 minutes after the explosion because he was driving around without a license plate and illegally carrying a concealed weapon. The investigation into his identity took place while he was in jail. The big thing that got him identified is that he had shown up at a local motel driving the big yellow Ryder truck and got distracted, accidentally signing his own name instead of a fake one. They managed to take him into federal custody within 2 days of the explosion.

Yeah it wasn't the rental part that sunk him. He actually did that part mostly right. It was everything else about it that hosed him.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 19:24

TotalLossBrain: Oct 20, 2010; Hier graben!

Knight's closing arguments are damning. I don't think this will go well for the bunch, at all.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 19:32

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

Is there a transcript anywhere?

# ? Oct 18, 2016 19:45

TotalLossBrain: Oct 20, 2010; Hier graben!

I'm following Maxine Bernstein's and Amanda Peacher''s Twitter feeds.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 19:52

CaptainSarcastic: Jul 6, 2013

I'm hoping the jury deliberates for less than 5 minutes and comes back with a blanket conviction. Really looking forward to the ensuing wailing and gnashing of teeth from the Tarpriots.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 20:03

theflyingexecutive: Apr 22, 2007

The people monitoring this thread are probs getting really antsy rn with the "proper way" to commit terrorism talk

# ? Oct 18, 2016 20:37

Kazak_Hstan: Apr 28, 2014; Grimey Drawer

https://twitter.com/maxoregonian/status/788408535944048640

lol

# ? Oct 18, 2016 20:46

TotalLossBrain: Oct 20, 2010; Hier graben!

Kazak_Hstan posted:

https://twitter.com/maxoregonian/status/788408535944048640

lol

Peacher's take on this was that RB is going for mistrial.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 20:53

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

So is RB�s angle:

�the jury instructions are bad because they emphasize unanimity� when I told the judge not to Q.E.D. Mistrial!
�the jury instructions are bad because they under‐emphasize unanimity� which is bad for any defendant Q.E.D. Mistrial!
�HAHAHA I got �em either way!�

# ? Oct 18, 2016 21:03

Sunswipe: Feb 5, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

I just want to be sure I understand this: a mistrial doesn't mean that the prosection throws their hands up in the air and says "Oh well, that's you free to go"? They'll just have another trial, right?

# ? Oct 18, 2016 21:37

Kazak_Hstan: Apr 28, 2014; Grimey Drawer

Eh, sort of.

Formally, a mistrial means you just start over from square one. So in theory they could have this same trial over again, or charge them differently (greater or lesser), rework theory theory of the case, have a new strategy, etc. And sometimes that happens.

But more realistically, a mistrial suggests there is some underlying problem with the case and the practical result is that the government tries to resolve it without a trial. That could mean tossing the case entirely, as happened in the Freddie Gray prosecutions in Baltimore, that could mean making more favorable plea offers to the defendants, etc.

A mistrial is generally regarded as a failure on the government's part, and there is a lot of pressure to avoid a repeat outcome. That will be especially true in a case like this, which has taken over this judge's courtroom for a month and a half. If she is anything like the vast majority of judges she will be remarkably unenthusiastic about blocking off another month and a half.

Despite the formal sense in which a mistrial just means the trial never happened, a mistrial in a case like this, with overwhelming evidence in favor of the prosecution and basically no legitimate question of law, would be a massive defeat for the government. It's also the only realistic option for the defendants, so that's their goal.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 21:47

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

I also don't expect it in this case. In order for one of the jurors to declare them not guilty, they must be sympathetic. These are jurors from oregon, and the general consensus from locals were that the militiamen were not welcome and a constant nuisance.

Also all things considered, this has been a pretty speedy trial. There was a mountain of evidence to be presented and a number of defendants in the same case with tons of frivolous filings. This trial could have dragged on for months and months longer than it did.

Mr. Nice! has issued a correction as of 22:17 on Oct 18, 2016

# ? Oct 18, 2016 21:59

TotalLossBrain: Oct 20, 2010; Hier graben!

Mr. Nice! posted:

These are jurors from southeast oregon

Wait, what? I thought they were selected from all over the place, but ended up being primarily from the greater PDX area? I seem to recall OPB pointing out the 'outliers', i.e. a juror from Hood River.

Edit:

quote:

Four of the 12 jurors are from the tri-county Portland area. Three are from the Eugene/Springfield area, and others live in St. Helens, Klamath Falls, Baker City and Hood River.

vv Ok I follow and that makes a lot of sense. Even the local Burns residents weren't nearly as sympathetic as the Bundys thought, so good luck with anyone from the rest of the state.

TotalLossBrain has issued a correction as of 22:19 on Oct 18, 2016

# ? Oct 18, 2016 22:15

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

TotalLossBrain posted:

Wait, what? I thought they were selected from all over the place, but ended up being primarily from the greater PDX area? I seem to recall OPB pointing out the 'outliers', i.e. a juror from Hood River.

You're right I'm an idiot, but regardless they're from Oregon where the militiamen are not. I don't want to say the jury is prejudiced against them, but they are certainly less than sympathetic.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 22:16

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

The best demographic the defense could have hoped for is probably �rural, but far from the incident itself�, but even they would be at least as likely sympathize with the Harney County residents that the defendants were making GBS threads all over.

Unrelated question: what are the logistics of a statewide juror pool in a case like this? I can�t imagine that Klamath Falls residents are required to report to a courthouse in Portland for routine jury duty, so how did they end up there?

# ? Oct 18, 2016 23:00

Percelus: Sep 9, 2012; My command, your wish is

i feel bad for that one jew who believes in UFOs, unlike the rest of them he wont be able to hang with neo nazis in the slammer. never any good jewish prison gangs

# ? Oct 18, 2016 23:03

Sunswipe: Feb 5, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

Kazak_Hstan posted:

Eh, sort of.

Formally, a mistrial means you just start over from square one. So in theory they could have this same trial over again, or charge them differently (greater or lesser), rework theory theory of the case, have a new strategy, etc. And sometimes that happens.

But more realistically, a mistrial suggests there is some underlying problem with the case and the practical result is that the government tries to resolve it without a trial. That could mean tossing the case entirely, as happened in the Freddie Gray prosecutions in Baltimore, that could mean making more favorable plea offers to the defendants, etc.

A mistrial is generally regarded as a failure on the government's part, and there is a lot of pressure to avoid a repeat outcome. That will be especially true in a case like this, which has taken over this judge's courtroom for a month and a half. If she is anything like the vast majority of judges she will be remarkably unenthusiastic about blocking off another month and a half.

Despite the formal sense in which a mistrial just means the trial never happened, a mistrial in a case like this, with overwhelming evidence in favor of the prosecution and basically no legitimate question of law, would be a massive defeat for the government. It's also the only realistic option for the defendants, so that's their goal.

Ah, thank you.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 23:12

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

Percelus posted:

i feel bad for that one jew who believes in UFOs, unlike the rest of them he wont be able to hang with neo nazis in the slammer. never any good jewish prison gangs

He's half jewish/japanese iirc and will be turned out on day one if he's ever let into general pop because he is a prison 10.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 23:15

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

Mr. Nice! posted:

He's half jewish/japanese iirc and will be turned out on day one if he's ever let into general pop because he is a prison 10.

Lucky for him he's insane and won't be allowed out of protective custody.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 23:20

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

PST posted:

Don't forget the inevitable appeals as well.

Gazing into the abyss:

Shocked, shocked I say that the Bundys could have raised money for something two years ago and then not delivered on it.

Strangely not in the constitution, checkmate patriots.

Also lots of stuff on how this is all a plot by Hillary to steal the Bundy land for the rich uranium deposits that she's already sold to Russia. Which is apparently common knowledge amongst the crazies.

Not gonna lie, I'd apply to work at the US Federal Domestic Terrorist Corporation.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 23:29

Dr. Killjoy: Oct 9, 2012

David Fry is a Messianic Jew, which is a fancy term for Christian Evangelicals who engage in Hebrew cosplay. Also yeah hopefully he'll get the treatment he needs given that he's just not cut out for this militant stuff and everyone from the refuge who didn't join the great tarp in the sky seems to resent him. Lord knows his parents won't help him given that they've decided that non-goony thing he does will make them proud so they've encouraged his militia crap and still do.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 23:55

SubponticatePoster: Aug 9, 2004; Every day takes figurin' out all over again how to fuckin' live.; Slippery Tilde

theflyingexecutive posted:

yeah did they actually stop though? still a blue federal government

Yes. Congress gives out the money and they stopped giving out money for that. They can still fall onto FBI/ATF watchlists for doing things, but there's no money just to monitor their websites and stuff like there used to be.

# ? Oct 18, 2016 23:59

Percelus: Sep 9, 2012; My command, your wish is

the republican congress doesn't want the federal government loving with their grassroots supporters i guess :jerry:

# ? Oct 19, 2016 00:49

TotalLossBrain: Oct 20, 2010; Hier graben!

Percelus posted:

the republican congress doesn't want the federal government loving with their grassroots supporters i guess

Just look at where they are right now. Cultivating those outer fringes of their base has done, err, wonders.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 00:50

TotalLossBrain: Oct 20, 2010; Hier graben!

Looks like Mumford's (RB's lawyer) closing argument was basically "a bloo bloo bloo you are the last bastion of liberty, plz don't convict my client for breaking the law, the government is mean".

# ? Oct 19, 2016 01:51

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

https://twitter.com/maxoregonian/status/788538047407075328

# ? Oct 19, 2016 02:07

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

https://twitter.com/maxoregonian/status/788538047407075328

But did the chili have beans in it?

# ? Oct 19, 2016 02:09

Dr. Killjoy: Oct 9, 2012

I swear to god a court appointed public defender would have been scores better than this goddamn clown.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 02:22

Fuckt Tupp: Apr 19, 2007; Science

If the chili gave them shits, you must acquits

# ? Oct 19, 2016 02:24

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Dr. Killjoy posted:

I swear to god a court appointed public defender would have been scores better than this goddamn clown.

Well, yeah, a PD doesn't have to make their client happy.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 02:32

Lutha Mahtin: Oct 10, 2010; Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

quote:

Ryan Bundy, Ammon Bundy's older brother, further urged that a clause be added to show the theft had to be permanent or for a "significant amount of time.''

If he were to take another's pen for his own use briefly, but return it, for example, that wouldn't be theft, Bundy said.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Ethan Knight countered that the criminal statute includes no mention of a period of time required for theft of property. The crux of the charge, Knight said, is the "intent of deprivation.''

five second rule!!

# ? Oct 19, 2016 02:41

Kazak_Hstan: Apr 28, 2014; Grimey Drawer

I want a can of stagg chili now. Goddamn it.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 02:44

Kazak_Hstan: Apr 28, 2014; Grimey Drawer

Dr. Killjoy posted:

I swear to god a court appointed public defender would have been scores better than this goddamn clown.

The court appointed lawyers have done very solid work in this case. Mumford has played a jackass.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 02:44

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

What are the chances of a verdict being delivered tonight?

# ? Oct 19, 2016 02:47

WrenP-Complete: Jul 27, 2012

Let's ask Nate Silver.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 02:48

Lutha Mahtin: Oct 10, 2010; Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

VikingSkull posted:

There's also been some complaints of the FBI contacting people that they know are borderline and leading them into plans they wouldn't have already formulated.

I don't know if the FBI has had similar scandals, but in recent years the ATF has done some bad stuff. They have intentionally set up black-market honeypot storefronts, from which they have to do genius things like "sell guns to people they probably shouldn't", in order to build a paper trail. They have also preyed upon people with developmental disabilities, people who probably don't really understand what they've gotten themselves into, and after they find and groom some poor guy with no job and few friends, they bring a slam-dunk legal case and lock him away for years. Some of these stories are just awful:

http://archive.jsonline.com/watchdog/backfire-190528221.html

# ? Oct 19, 2016 02:49