|
Finn is more than just a child soldier or an orphan who had nowhere to go but the marines. The First Order is a culture unto itself, maintaining no relations with outsiders that aren't predicated on warfare. Its members, who apparently only get to have names if they reach sufficient rank, are effectively born into it. It's a maximally quantified and repressive society, and our boy is nobody in it. His spontaneous Awakening to the realization that his entire world is incredibly hosed up and he can't be part of it any more sort of makes him an echo of Dooku. At first, he just wanted to get away from the Order, but he was persuaded that he could do more good by joining forces with a onetime Senator and fighting back - escalating a war with a careful plan. His former comrades regard him as a traitor and despise him, but in any given interaction it becomes clear they're the ones that are kinda hosed up, not him; if he gives them an offer to join him, they'll flatly refuse. His costume is mostly black and he's played by an Englishman.
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 01:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 00:13 |
|
|
Equeen posted:Aw, don't say that you're Yaws Sorry, I couldn't resist being as "polite" and "erudite" as Yaws.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
rear end Catchcum posted:Qui gon messed with his loaded dice is this really even a question? Are there two different versions of the prequels or some poo poo? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRuk4uvPm8I The initial bet is Watto believes Sebulba's unbeatable, so bets it all on Sebulba. Qui Gon takes the action, and want to bed the pod racer itself for Anakin and Shmi. Watto only pulls out the dice when presented with a bet that will take both Shmi and Anakin, and neither side says which is more valuable to them, so it's truly a chance bet, they're not loaded, and you're a piece of poo poo who still argues in half remembered inconsistencies. Try again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 01:50
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRuk4uvPm8I You say this but you remember a scene in TPM where Qui-Gon wants to have sex with a Pod Racer vehicle?!?!
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 01:53
|
|
|
This is the first time I've seen anyone say the cube wasn't loaded, actually. It's pretty clear that Watto prefers to keep Anakin based on his reaction, and his surprise and anger are much more than if he actually was expecting a fifty fifty shot.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 01:54
|
|
|
Qui Gon tips his hand by saying that he wants the boy first when Watto initially balks at betting both of them. Then Watto assigns the colors of the die to Anakin and Shmi, so its still feasible that the die was loaded. I never saw it that way though and I don't think that's really the intention of the scene.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 01:56
|
|
|
Yaws posted:You say this but you remember a scene in TPM where Qui-Gon wants to have sex with a Pod Racer vehicle?!?! Dammit, I'm undone! Time to give up the ruse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng9LMtcmqNs&t=118s lol at favorite poster talk, like these people are your real life internet friends and poo poo. There's posters I agree with and posters whose views on cinema I like reading, but that's as far as it goes. Some of you are a little unhealthy with the lengths you take with forcing yourselves onto your fandom. ruddiger fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Oct 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 02:00
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:Qui Gon tips his hand by saying that he wants the boy first when Watto initially balks at betting both of them. Then Watto assigns the colors of the die to Anakin and Shmi, so its still feasible that the die was loaded. Yeah, as far as Watto is presented he's clearly a gambler and slave-owner, but he's not presented as anything less than honest and there is nothing to the scene to demonstrate anything other than he thinks Qui-Gon cheated him (which he does, and which Watto should rightfully feel stupid for thinking Qui-Gon would keep the bet fair given the very first thing Qui-Gon did on meeting Watto was try to mind-control him*). At no point does he go back on his word, and there is never anything shown to indicate he's duplicitous. *For some reason a lot of people miss that Qui-Gon uses this on Boss Nass to get the ship they use to travel to where Padme is on Naboo, establishing that Qui-Gon has absolutely 0 qualms about underhanded tactics to get what he wants.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 02:07
|
|
|
Yaws posted:You say this but you remember a scene in TPM where Qui-Gon wants to have sex with a Pod Racer vehicle?!?! Sadly, since the Disney acquisition, author R2-69's seminal work on Fanfiction.net is no longer considered canon.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 03:13
|
|
|
Brainiac Five posted:Well, dawg, if you consider your own posts to be a "slapfight", I won't tempt ya any further with the degradation of your soul. But I'm talking about the people who are furious at the idea of "reading into" things. I suppose they could all agree with you, that being a likely outcome with human beings and all. All internet arguments about movies with spacemans are slapfights. It was just an expression, not an attempt to end the discussion. I'm not inventing a scenario where Qui-Gon was in the right to rig the die throw, because I don't care whether he's right at all for purposes of Watto's characterization. You've, uh, seen movies where two characters each do wrong things out of self-interest with some justification, right? This is like that, except in this case one of them is a hook-nosed guy who only cares about money, in his own words, and is (I am persuaded by Cnut's post, thanks for that) designed to riff on noted Jewish villain Fagin and Oliver Twist more than anything else. If it's a fair die, his own die, why would he wonder whether Qui-Gon cheated? Edit: and if he'd figured it out or even had a reasonable suspicion, why would he bring out a chance cube at all? homullus fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Oct 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 03:29
|
|
|
homullus posted:All internet arguments about movies with spacemans are slapfights. It was just an expression, not an attempt to end the discussion. "Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 03:30
|
|
|
I can only speak for myself, but I was eleven years old when I saw The Phantom Menace, and it never crossed my mind that Jar Jar was a black man, Watto was a Jew, or that the Nemoidians were Japanese businessmen. Jar Jar seems foreign, stupid, and worthless, but ends up being brave and valuable. It's the plot of like every kid movie. It's nice, it's fine. General Dog fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Oct 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 04:07
|
|
|
The Neimodians is really the most forced of these stupid fake analogies: they don't dress Japanese (Padme wears a Kabuki dress though), they don't speak with a Japanese accent and they don't even act like typical Japanese stereotypes. Also whoever compared Jar-Jar to Buster Keaton is spot on. Behold the racism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWEjxkkB8Xs
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 04:16
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:The Neimodians is really the most forced of these stupid fake analogies: they don't dress Japanese (Padme wears a Kabuki dress though), they don't speak with a Japanese accent and they don't even act like typical Japanese stereotypes. Messa Busta Keeton *pimp walks around the screen*
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 04:34
|
|
|
It was Ahmed Best himself who said he based his performance on Keaton. Pimps have really lowered their standards if a slight gait is now considered pimp walking.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 04:44
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:It was Ahmed Best himself who said he based his performance on Keaton. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeDWwyEE9WE When I was 11 years old, I understand exactly what Robert Townsend was depicting in this film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoqmCwp95Q8 temple fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Oct 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 05:00
|
|
|
So is there a "default" human voice and behavior set that every animated character needs to be based on to avoid any offensive stereotyping or appropriation?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 05:25
|
|
|
General Dog posted:So is there a "default" human voice and behavior set that every animated character needs to be based on to avoid any offensive stereotyping or appropriation?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 05:38
|
|
|
temple posted:Ask Finn Finn's human, Jar Jar's an alien. Lando and Mace are humans. As is Jango and Capt. Panaka. Guess what direction Lucas told them to play their characters as. your mom.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 06:01
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:So now that we're done enlightening you first world savages about the prequels, I can't wait to see all the discussion the Force Awakens and the Rogue One trailer generates But the racismchat was generated by that
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 06:11
|
|
|
Schwarzwald posted:Sadly, since the Disney acquisition, author R2-69's seminal work on Fanfiction.net is no longer considered canon. I see you discovered my theforce.net handle. It was my alt account after my C3PPH0LE account got banned.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 06:22
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:So now that we're done enlightening you first world savages about the prequels, I can't wait to see all the discussion the Force Awakens and the Rogue One trailer generates Not that there's that much to talk about in TFA, but most prequel discussions are just the same few discussions repeated. We're kinda boned either way.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 07:39
|
|
|
ThePlague-Daemon posted:Not that there's that much to talk about in TFA, but most prequel discussions are just the same few discussions repeated. We're kinda boned either way. It would help if trolls like Tezzor and Yaws would shut the gently caress up about the Prequels.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 09:37
|
|
|
ThePlague-Daemon posted:Not that there's that much to talk about in TFA, but most prequel discussions are just the same few discussions repeated. We're like poetry, we rhyme.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 12:26
|
|
|
I just lesrned JJ is a big fan of Don Coscarelli and got Phantasm remastered for the hell of it so that's cool.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 12:28
|
|
|
temple posted:I went sent myself back in time and created this video just to post it here. Ok so these videos are one thing, but instead of actually seeing Jar Jar walk in that first one, all I see is George flailing his arms around As I posted earlier in response to you (which you ignored????), here's actual videos of Jar Jar walking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FLhO7ZnKHs Start this one at like 29s otherwise you'll just see him running instead of walking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR_ow1HYrts At about 25s here you even get to see other Gungans simply walking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlEqJQMd41E At 3m02s we see Panaka walking and his arms are moving too!! Oh dear god!! My point is that it's one thing to post a snarky video of George moving his arms around, but the whole "Jive Walking" thing completely falls apart when you look at the actual walk Jar Jar does and realize he's just...walking. The dude is just walking like a 7 foot alien. There are real, genuinely racist hollywood films, and systemic (and especially outright these days) real racism issues to deal with in our society and pop culture without having to say that they exist within a 7 foot tall alien in Star Wars. Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Oct 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 13:21
|
|
|
Waffles Inc. posted:Ok so these videos are one thing, but instead of actually seeing Jar Jar walk in that first one, all I see is George flailing his arms around I don't have the tolerance to explain jive walking. Educating racists isn't my forte. temple fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Oct 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 14:02
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:I just lesrned JJ is a big fan of Don Coscarelli and got Phantasm remastered for the hell of it so that's cool. I've brought this up here before, but I think one of the best things George Lucas ever did in his career was to approach Akira Kurosawa at a time when Kurosawa had a very difficult time getting financing for his films, and offering to produce one for him simply because Lucas wanted to see another Kurosawa film. He then proceeded to show up to the set of the film(Kagemusha) and geek out about how awesome it was that he was on the set of a Kurosawa film. He let Kurosawa do his thing and gave him full creative control to make whatever movie his heart desired, because Lucas thought he deserved it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 14:09
|
|
|
temple posted:Why would Jar Jar be any different from any other character? Does racism evaporate in Sci-fi? What makes Jar Jar immune for racist sensibilities? Why is a film made in a racist industry, in a racist culture, somehow less affected by racism? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoqmCwp95Q8 Your video here at 48s is certainly depicting a Jive Walk, no doubt, but that's simply not how Jar Jar is walking It absolutely would be one thing if he were genuinely animated and depicted to be walking like you describe, but Temple, he's just not. And for whatever it's worth, he's not that different from other characters, aside from him being computer animated in 1999 and not being a human being. If George or Ahmed Best wanted to depict Jar Jar as Jive Walking, wouldn't they have made it not just more pronounced, but pronounced at all? Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Oct 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 14:10
|
|
|
I wish I had the gall to post a behind the scenes video of Ahmed Best doing the Carlton while walking to set as proof that he's a jive walking minstrel and then call others racist. This poo poo's like my racist Facebook feed back home. Please, suburban computer goon, please keep teaching us minorities who have experienced first hand racism that what we've always thought of as racism as wrong, and we're the real racists for not becoming carbon copies of the dominant culture, and representation of anyone walking with any kind of cadence or voiced with any kind of accent is, in fact, the true racism. ruddiger fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Oct 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 14:19
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:I've brought this up here before, but I think one of the best things George Lucas ever did in his career was to approach Akira Kurosawa at a time when Kurosawa had a very difficult time getting financing for his films, and offering to produce one for him simply because Lucas wanted to see another Kurosawa film. He then proceeded to show up to the set of the film(Kagemusha) and geek out about how awesome it was that he was on the set of a Kurosawa film. He let Kurosawa do his thing and gave him full creative control to make whatever movie his heart desired, because Lucas thought he deserved it. Kagemusha is legit one of my favorite movies of all time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 14:30
|
|
|
Jive Walking is not something relevant to Jar Jar as a racist character. Idk where anyone gets jive walking from him The true problem lies in his so called accent. It is dangerously close to historical racist stereotypes of AAVE. That coupled with his portrayal as a "fool" is highly and disturbingly reminiscent of historically racist caricature. This was toned down later and this problem was solved. Both of these factors together in TPM make binks problematic. Again, Ruddiger, nobody has a problem with the afro-caribbean accent or any accent of any other character (exception Watto) or groups of characters. Next subject re: Donny Yen in Rogue One. How do I deal with conflicting feelings of him being a stereotype but thinking he is cool anyway??? Phi230 fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Oct 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 14:55
|
|
|
Phi230 posted:Next subject re: Donny Yen in Rogue One. How do I deal with conflicting feelings of him being a stereotype but thinking he is cool anyway??? Context matters, just like it did with Jar Jar. So its hard to say whether Yen's character will be problematic without seeing the movie. If he's just there to say a few "words of wisdom" and then die honorably, then yea that's an issue.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 15:06
|
|
|
Donnie Yen has great teeth
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 15:48
|
|
|
All things considered Donnie Yen may be the most underrated martial artist in film history. Especially the more contemporary guys, I'd put Ip Man far above anything Tony Jaa has ever done, and up there with the best of Jackie Chan.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 15:53
|
|
|
Jaa was a flash in the pan but a really talented guy. I think his attitude sunk him.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 16:02
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Jaa was a flash in the pan but a really talented guy. I think his attitude sunk him. Jaa's rise to international fame was really interesting, there was a lot of word of mouth involved and he broke through at a time when it wasn't quite as easy as it is now to see foreign martial arts films. I had to buy Ong Bak at one of those little mall kiosks, and I'm pretty sure it was some sort of bootleg because the quality was pretty bad. It wasn't like with The Raid where its reputation spread like wildfire and pretty soon there was a blu ray on every Best Buy shelf. You had to seek Jaa out and put effort into finding his stuff, at least for a while. By the time The Protector came out he was everywhere though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 16:10
|
|
|
Are the Raid guys doing choreography again?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 16:21
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:Context matters Correct - and people are putting a lot of effort into decontextualizing Jar Jar. 'Jar Jar is just black, and an inferior black. That is all that he is, innately.' In the actual film, the context is that Jar Jar's homeland has been colonized and his people displaced. Jar Jar's hated voice is a result of this colonization: he's speaking English, which is the sort of influence that led his government to become isolationist - which is what led to practices like exile as a punishment for destruction of property. Nobody in the Republic can be sentenced to exile. Jar Jar was. The narrative of the film is straightforwardly about the gap between the formal freedom provided by the post-Enlightenment Republic (democracy, human rights, etc.) and the reality of brutal exploitation in the capitalist system. Life is their theoretically better for Jar Jar, but is he free? Thousands of droids and gungans end up dying over what is ultimately a financial dispute between a luxury resort town and a faceless conglomerate.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 18:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 00:13 |
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Correct - and people are putting a lot of effort into decontextualizing Jar Jar. 'Jar Jar is just black, and an inferior black. That is all that he is, innately.'
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 19:28
|
|