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Fateo McMurray
Mar 22, 2003

well that's just silly

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mcvey
Aug 31, 2006

go caps haha

*Washington Capitals #1 Fan On DeviantArt*
Hardcore Overwatch

verbal enema
May 23, 2009

onlymarfans.com

Cumtaster posted:

yeah the people who are right on the cusp of hitting a round multiple of 100 are the ones getting shafted in this deal but as someone who's had overwatch since launch and am only level 65ish this change benefits me greatly in the long run so booya

gently caress you casual

Alleric
Dec 10, 2002

Rambly Bastard...

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

winston is already good, why would they buff him

He is good, and I very much enjoy playing him. However...

He needs some livability help. You can't buff his dps or he'll turn OP in a heartbeat but he needs some help staying alive, and it's mostly to do with cooldowns relative to his crap non-leap movement speed. Basically I'd just like to see his cooldowns tweaked down slightly to provide a bit more leap-in-harass-leap-out scenarios. As it stands right now, unless you can catch a couple of key characters isolated to ruin their day, most of the time your huge target of a bubble is down and/or negated and your huge target of a body is already burned down before leap's off cooldown.

He's not a murder factory, and I'm fine with that. I would just like to see his zoning/harassment buffed by giving him some quicker escapes and protection.

Commoners
Apr 25, 2007

Sometimes you reach a stalemate. Sometimes you get magic horses.
I think one of the only things I would change with Winston is letting his shield cooldown start once he drops the shield. That or marginally increasing the shield health due to double Winston no longer being a thing would be the only things I would even consider without taking him into ultra retard broken territory.

Mukaikubo
Mar 14, 2006

"You treat her like a lady... and she'll always bring you home."

Alleric posted:

He is good, and I very much enjoy playing him. However...

He needs some livability help. You can't buff his dps or he'll turn OP in a heartbeat but he needs some help staying alive, and it's mostly to do with cooldowns relative to his crap non-leap movement speed. Basically I'd just like to see his cooldowns tweaked down slightly to provide a bit more leap-in-harass-leap-out scenarios. As it stands right now, unless you can catch a couple of key characters isolated to ruin their day, most of the time your huge target of a bubble is down and/or negated and your huge target of a body is already burned down before leap's off cooldown.

He's not a murder factory, and I'm fine with that. I would just like to see his zoning/harassment buffed by giving him some quicker escapes and protection.

I'd just like his bubble shield buffed a little bit and I think it'd be fine. Either a bit more HP or a bit faster cooldown.

Commoners
Apr 25, 2007

Sometimes you reach a stalemate. Sometimes you get magic horses.
A straight cooldown reduction on either his leap or his bubble would turn him into a nightmare. The only time he's actually vulnerable is when both of those are down. A Winston player has no business dying unless he really hosed up if he has either of those at his disposal.

Schneider Inside Her
Aug 6, 2009

Please bitches. If nothing else I am a gentleman

Commoners posted:

I think one of the only things I would change with Winston is letting his shield cooldown start once he drops the shield. That or marginally increasing the shield health due to double Winston no longer being a thing would be the only things I would even consider without taking him into ultra retard broken territory.

Yeah maybe increase the cooldown by a couple of seconds while starting the cooldown as soon as it's activated. As it is it's hard to use it for anything other than self preservation because otherwise you can't really fight for like 20 seconds. I feel like the shield health is at a good place: it can withstand a bit of fire but a few people firing on it shreds it.

Kilometers Davis
Jul 9, 2007

They begin again

Away all Goats posted:

Winston should be able to climb walls like hanzo/genji :colbert:

True

Anyone feel like telling me how to get good as Winston? Gorillas are absolutely my poo poo and I love how he plays but I always feel like a suicidal distraction vs a serious threat most of the time.

Schneider Inside Her
Aug 6, 2009

Please bitches. If nothing else I am a gentleman
They should also change his melee attack so it is like a hammerfist coming down onto peoples heads. Add a *donk* sound. Increase damage to 50 if you want Winston to be completely broken.

Commoners
Apr 25, 2007

Sometimes you reach a stalemate. Sometimes you get magic horses.
Increasing melee damage to 50 would have the hilarious side effect of his melee being better at hitting armored opponents than his main gun.

Schneider Inside Her
Aug 6, 2009

Please bitches. If nothing else I am a gentleman

Kilometers Davis posted:

True

Anyone feel like telling me how to get good as Winston? Gorillas are absolutely my poo poo and I love how he plays but I always feel like a suicidal distraction vs a serious threat most of the time.

Commoners did a great post on Winston a while back. My quick advice is to use your melee a ton. Jump at a dude, melee midair, land, electrocute, melee. Winston's tesla gun does like 60dps or something? I'm not sure. Anyway, you can turn a 200hp class into a 120hp class by the time you've landed on em, and then when they are at 30hp kill them with another melee.

Your ult full heals you, so use it when you are low. Also ulting resets your jump pack cooldown, so if you are hella far from the point and it's getting capped you can jump, ult, jump and you'll probably be there. Same thing is true in reverse: leap into the air as your ult ends, leap back to your team.

Drop your barrier in midair if you're jumping into gnarly territory, it's a sphere so it'll protect you as you come in.

Constantine XI
Dec 21, 2003
omg turk rush
I love Winston but his massive head hit box makes me feel like I'm playing a 200HP squishy at times. Also I disagree that increasing the base damage on his weapon by 1 or 2 will make him a death machine. As it stands it feels like a tickle gun.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Kilometers Davis posted:

True

Anyone feel like telling me how to get good as Winston? Gorillas are absolutely my poo poo and I love how he plays but I always feel like a suicidal distraction vs a serious threat most of the time.

Commoners posted:

Commoner's Guide to Overwatch Scientist


Just to give myself some science credentials and bragging- https://www.overbuff.com/players/pc/DrBanelingMD-1595/heroes/winston?mode=competitive

Winston is my most played between quick play and competitive, and he is one of the three heroes that was responsible for getting me into the top 500 relatively easily, the other two being Reinhardt and Zenyatta. He was useful from the climb up from 54, and is still a solid pick in the 70+ games. Most of my climbing games were in the solo queue, though a lot of friends I've made would pull me into groups to play Winston because they were sick of Genjis scuttling up the walls like roaches.

So this is being written with the understanding that you have a basic knowledge of Winston in that he's a scientist with a jetpack and lightning gun. I believe him to be one of the stronger tanks in the game, but he is also one of the tanks that is most severely punished by his counters (Bastion, Roadhog, Reaper, and Zenyatta.) He is definitely not a swiss army knife hero that can be used in any situation, but he definitely is a core hero that, when played well, is able to shake up game flow in your team's favor. If some of it gets too tl;dr for you guys I'm bolding some of the more important parts.

Primary Role and Mindset

A lot of people say that Winston's primary role is to create chaos. This works at lower tiers of game play where communication is poor (if it exists) and people can remain completely unaware of a jetpacking tank landing and murdering the people directly behind them. There's an uncanny valley as you go up in ranks where he can no longer do this due to teams collapsing on him and people begin thinking that he sucks and completely write him off as a hero, and then at the higher tiers there is a rediscovery of his usefulness where hitscan heroes and Genjis start becoming significant problems.

His biggest role is zoning, followed closely by punishment.

One of Winston's most powerful tools is his presence. Teams know that they have to prioritize him when he drops in, partly because he is a relatively easy pick if he isolates himself and another part that if he is left alone he will eat anything that has 200hp or no armor. They have to keep their supports close in, and their flankers can't afford to be spending their skills running about willy nilly when they may need them to escape the ape. More conservative movement, use of skills, and tolerance of danger during skirmishes is forced because Winston is an opportunist. If the enemy team does not play carefully with Winston present, he is able to actively punish them for their mistakes. Always look for opportunities, quickly assess the risk of taking that opportunity, and if it's in your favor take it. Dedicate your the brainpower you aren't spending aiming towards your positioning and your spacial awareness.

At the beginning of a fight where teams are skirmishing Winston just needs to hang out, maybe provide a bubble shield, and generally keep a watch out for anyone getting out of position where they are isolated from their team. If you see a teammate engaged in a 1v1 for some reason, jump to them and turn it into a 2v1. If you see a lone enemy nonflanker/nontank that has isolated themselves like McCree, Soldier, Widowmaker, Hanzo, or any of the supports, go ahead and jump on them, because they will be forced to either reposition or die trying. If the enemy has a Genji or Tracer present, watch for when they take their dive into knife fighting range and jump on them to keep your teammates alive and unharmed, but don't chase them unless it's just a guaranteed kill. Genji and Tracer are generally able to keep you at range, and if you chase after them from health kit to health kit it will end in you being dead and them having their ults charged very quickly. Your job is to zone them out and keep them away from your DPS and support allies who are doing their jobs. Keep the monkeys off their backs so they can do their work.

Skirmishing and maneuvering will generally end in one of two ways- The enemy team will disengage due to losses during the skirmish, or they will push in due to the field being neutral or them having an advantage. If the enemy engages, then you are entering the team fighting phase where Winston becomes much less reactionary and is a much more active participant in the fight. To maximize Winston's damage output and effectiveness you're looking for a few things in particular- Getting as many enemies under his lightning gun at once, landing your jetpack on as many enemies at once, body blocking slower targets at choke points to split the team, and prioritizing the wounded and nearly dead targets first. Sometimes during the fight you will have a priority target that you are trying to nullify, like a well played Genji, McCree, or Widowmaker, in which case you will largely ignore the team fight until that particular target is dealt with. Diminishing the presence and effectiveness of an ace player will sometimes contribute more to your team's effectiveness than going after the enemy team as a whole. Make their lives hell until they switch to Reaper or Roadhog.

Generally speaking- Winston's mobility means that he picks when, where, and who he fights, so the wise scientist will only enter favorable engagements where his resources are available, he has more teammates, and his positioning is superior. Do not just yolo into the whole enemy team with your jetpack, all you will accomplish is feeding all of their ult meters.

How to Engage

There are three basic, routine engagement styles with Winston.

The first most commonly used is the jumping engagement. This one is when you use your jump pack to leap onto a priority target, immediately drop shield, and then dance around while zapping the target. This engagement is generally used on single targets that you either want to oust from their position, distract temporarily, or kill. By using your jump and bubble to engage, you leave yourself completely vulnerable and have nothing to escape with if things turn against you, and additionally have nothing to chase with if things are swinging in your favor. If the enemy character has an escape skill like Genji's dash or Widowmaker's grappling hook, you're also poo poo out of luck and are unlikely to be able to pursue someone that has their head on their shoulders in regard to running away from Winston. Characters that have already used their skills, or ones without escapes like McCree or Zenyatta are particularly vulnerable to this engagement because you can just chase after them and slowly electrocute them to death while they try to fight you off. Landing your jump directly on the enemy will deal 50 damage will will shorten your time to kill on them by almost a full second, so try to not miss your landing! This type of engagement is the easiest and quickest way to be murdered as Winston, and inexperienced or bad Winston players will use this engagement type to fight and die against the entire enemy team. Only use jumping engagements when you're sure you will have room to sit on your rear end for six seconds while your jetpack comes back online.

Next, there's the drop engagement. The name implies that you are literally going to be dropping on the enemy from a vertical advantage, and it is best used in that manner, but you could technically just run up to the enemy or run around a corner and begin engaging them. With this style you retain use of your jetpack and use your bubble to try to soak some enemy damage. This is the style of engagement you use to attack a full enemy team. The biggest thing to factor in while performing this engagement is minimizing damage while you close, which is why it is most successfully done from up high or around corners. By not using your jetpack you are left with multiple options depending on how the engagement goes- If you are taking too much damage and cannot stay in the fight you can jetpack to disengage. Disengaging as a decision has to be made while you still have a decent amount of hit points remaining, because enemy players will be able to get parting shots on you. Decide if you're going to disengage once you're down to 300hp. If the enemy team is starting to crumple under your team's pressure, you can use your jetpack to chase after the wounded or characters who have exhausted their own skills. These drop engagements should be your bread and butter for team fighting, because they keep you in control of the overall situation.

The final type is what I like to call brick engagements, because it is stupidly simple. These engagements are when your team balls up into a group of six, Lucio speed boosts into the enemy, and you hold down M1 and W while furiously mashing shift and E while staring at the enemy. These are generally done blindly with only limited information on where the enemy is, what their composition is, and what skills they have or have not used. The goal of a brick engagement is to go full shock and awe, completely skip the skirmishing phase, and as quickly as possible enter the knife fighting phase of a team fight. This relies on your team being present and cognizant of the rush plan, and is best performed at the start of matches before ultimates can be charged due to their disruptive nature. Winston does well in these because he can either shock multiple people at once, go after stragglers, or chase down the wounded if they try to disengage from the fight. Generally speaking this engagement type will very commonly end with Winston dead and either the entire enemy team dead, or your entire team dead alongside you.

Primal Rage

Winston's ultimate instantly gives him 1000hp, reduces his jetpack cooldown to two seconds, and enables him to swing his arms around for forty damage a swing while knocking players around. When he activates primal rage and when it ends his jetpack is instantly refreshed. One important thing to keep in mind is that, besides exceptional circumstances, you should not engage the enemy with primal rage. It is a waste. Pocket primal rage and engage with the enemy normally, but once you hit 100 hit points (or sooner if you're taking damage significantly fast) pop it. This means that the enemy has to work through 1,300 hit points including your bubble shield before they have to work through another thousand hit points after you primal rage. If you time everything correctly, after primal rage ends you should have another bubble shield available for at least 800 hit points that they have to work through to get to you. If you're near any pits or cliffs, position yourself so that you are able to bat enemies into them. Your damage output is extremely poor while in primal rage, and you become a huge glowing priority target by the enemy. If you are prematurely about to die while raging as Winston, do not be afraid to disengage. The time it costs to respawn is a huge penalty, and it is totally worth grabbing a healing kit or getting healed by a support instead of dying and wasting that time. Never stop jumping while you're in a primal rage, because it's another 25 damage per second that you sacrifice if you stop, and never stop swinging your arms.

You have a few distinct uses for primal rage-

Usually the best option is to focus one or two targets and kidnap them. This can be a primary tank like Reinhardt, a squishy DPS characters, or the supports. Try to pick out the most effective enemy player and remove them from the fight by pushing them back, jetpacking into them, and then pushing them back again. You can push people across an entire stage if you aim your swings properly, and if you back them into a corner you are almost assuredly going to be able to beat them to death while they're pinned to the ceiling and alone. The moment that you finish the target off, immediately jetpack back towards the fight and target another character.

The other use is to remove enemies from superior positioning. This is done in places like the second stage of Hollywood where teams should be vying for rooftop control of the stage, or places like the server room when an enemy has a Reinhardt shield to hide behind. You want to scatter enemy characters off of the high ground, and if you are in an area to do it try to scatter them apart to different sides of the building so that they are separated. Tell your team in advance that you intend to do this so they can best capitalize on the enemy team being all over the place.

One thing to keep in mind- If your team is already mostly dead and the enemy team is mostly alive, don't be afraid to just die without using primal rage. Use it in desperate circumstances like that if you have to force overtime or lose, but otherwise try to use it while your team members are still alive and can exploit the fact that you are pushing everyone out of positioning.

When to Switch

Winston suffers hard from his counters, but if you play him properly the characters you're harassing will also be suffering. If the enemy team has a good Genji, McCree, S76, Widowmaker, or really well played supports Winston is an A+ pick due to being able to make their games a hellish experience. He is worth bringing out if any of those characters are being fielded.

For putting him away I follow what I call the Rule of Twos and Threes. If an enemy team has Roadhog, Reaper, and Zenyatta all at once you absolutely are in an environment where you cannot use Winston and it is time to switch to a more effective character. If the enemy has any two of those counter characters, and also has any two of Genji, McCree, S76, Widowmaker, or Ana, then the benefits your team will face from shutting down those characters will generally outweigh the risk that you take from playing Winston in those circumstances.

The Buddy System and Flanking

Winston can work alone, but his effectiveness is amplified greatly if he has a buddy to flank with. Tracer, Genji, and D.va are all particularly effective due to their high mobility, and when you work with them you can make significantly more dangerous dives with much reduced risk. Winston has huge problems finishing characters off because of his relatively long time to kill, but working with a teammate can significantly shorten that time to kill. Generally speaking, you only want to flank with Winston when there is another flanker that he can work with. The current meta has McCree and Zenyatta in heavy use, and throwing two flankers at those heroes kills them very, very quickly for relatively low risk, because the only way those two can escape an attack is by killing their way out. Stay in sync with your buddy flanker, withdraw when they withdraw, and attack when they attack (which is hopefully at the same time that your team is attacking.)

Riotgrrill
Sep 3, 2004

I get why they're thinking of nerfing Zarya's shields but I really hope that 25% ultimate cost doesn't make it to the patch since Zarya is already slow as all hell to get her Ult.

Schneider Inside Her
Aug 6, 2009

Please bitches. If nothing else I am a gentleman
I think Zarya's ult charge is in a pretty good spot. Takes a long time to get it but if you're juiced up and doing work it charges in no time. I do like the 25% ult charge increase across the board. Will make em feel more like ultimate abilities.

C-SPAN Caller
Apr 21, 2010



I have 35 hours as D.Va and only like 14 as Zarya so this Zarya Nerf may mean people won't screech at me when I pick her in competitive.

Thor-Stryker
Nov 11, 2005

poemdexter posted:

People purposefully quitting the game before an event hurts Blizzard. How is this not obvious? They are trying to keep their playerbase up by removing the incentive to quit before seasonal events.

Yeah, now they won't play at all because gently caress grinding for boxes post lvl20.

Schneider Inside Her
Aug 6, 2009

Please bitches. If nothing else I am a gentleman
I only play this game for the skins

Tweet Me Balls
Apr 14, 2009

Thor-Stryker posted:

Yeah, now they won't play at all because gently caress grinding for boxes post lvl20.

I thought they weren't changing the total amount of experience to get to level 100?

Like, you get the same amount of boxes over the same amount of time you just don't get them frontloaded and then a slowdown?

ToastyPotato
Jun 23, 2005

CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

Thor-Stryker posted:

Yeah, now they won't play at all because gently caress grinding for boxes post lvl20.

Why would they grind for boxes ever if they weren't interested in playing for the sake of playing? Are that many people who play the game that brain damaged? The answer is no, only a tiny portion is that stupid and whiny. So if they quit, the game would probably be much more enjoyable to play without them.

Dire Human
Feb 1, 2013

AH-HA! That's right...

Who's laughing now?

Who's laughing now?



ToastyPotato posted:

I have no idea how reward structures work.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
Really, Blizzard should be commended for their continued efforts to try and snap people out of the idea that loot boxes are important or even worthwhile.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Loot boxes are nice and the XP bonus from winning is cool especially if you need as many of those dice rolls as possible during an event, but hey it isn't like I'm quitting because I don't get a box every game anymore. Hell, they loop you back around to level 1 after you finish 100 so even that's something to just play through and have fun being a scientist.

Tweet Me Balls
Apr 14, 2009

I, personally, as a boy extremely horny for loot boxes, am glad that they are smoothing out the loot box distribution. I become less enthused as I gain levels because I know it will take longer to get my three sprays and a Zenyatta skin I already have, but will treasure nonetheless.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
The real incentive for leveling up is upgrading your portrait frame.

Brannock
Feb 9, 2006

by exmarx
Fallen Rib
As someone who intentionally held off on leveling up waiting for events,

Mechanism Eight posted:

Both Overwatch threads bear evidence that this change is a good one; Encouraging users to 'almost prestige' then stop playing until the next seasonal event is a pretty terrible idea IMO

I agree

Tweet Me Balls
Apr 14, 2009

It's a very good change.

Like, I don't blame people for thinking that Blizzard could donk up reward systems, but I don't understand what's not to like unless you just assume that all they're doing is jacking up XP requirements.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Oh wait they changed the leveling progression? Good, the drat discord was deader than no man's sky in the two weeks prior to the Halloween event.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

It's almost like they looked at the reset on 100 and decided that people who get past that mark are already heavily invested in overwatch and, without being able to game exp for extra event boxes, will be much more likely to spend money on boxes.

Schneider Inside Her
Aug 6, 2009

Please bitches. If nothing else I am a gentleman
Yeah it's almost like that

SectumSempra
Jun 22, 2011

Bi-Han now we've got Bad Blood

Mechanism Eight posted:

Both Overwatch threads bear evidence that this change is a good one; Encouraging users to 'almost prestige' then stop playing until the next seasonal event is a pretty terrible idea IMO
If it were linked to something more than lootboxes I'd be pro-it.

but its not.

so i disagree.

As someone on the cusp of 100 on console now, I'm kinda glad I'll at least get it now, because I don't want to buy lootboxes, especially since my luck with them is so incredibly lovely.

I'd rather just be able to buy the skin I want if they are after money. I don't want to throw cash and play the lotto.

SectumSempra fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Oct 21, 2016

Schneider Inside Her
Aug 6, 2009

Please bitches. If nothing else I am a gentleman
Definitely do not buy lootboxes

Jippa
Feb 13, 2009
I downloaded an update for overwatch last night and one for battle.net this morning (UK time). Now I can't launch battle.net at all. Anyone else getting this?

Jippa fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Oct 21, 2016

SectumSempra
Jun 22, 2011

Bi-Han now we've got Bad Blood

Slime posted:

There's a big thread on the blizzard forums about this and you sound just like those idiots. Now it will take ever so slightly less xp to get a lootbox on average. Those people who hit 100 right before or during an event suffer slightly but most players, the loving majority of us, BENEFIT from this.

don't have a tantrum just because gaming the system stopped working

Wait out of both of your reactions, you think he's having the tantrum..

lol.

They're all cosmetic.

Every single thing tied to level is cosmetic.

From the frames around your character to the skins and stickers and icons.

if they really cared about making people not quit, all they'd need to do is let you win a small amount of gold per match (like 3-5 for a win 1 for a loss) and just keep things as is.
That way you're rewarded a currency solely for playing that can buy the cosmetics you want, especially if the updates continue to just be cosmetic, people won't be able to play enough to keep up and will still also have incentive to buy boxes on the last few days of event as usual or for their sick unique youtube video.

people don't just quit before a content update to get lootboxes it literally happens in EVERY game, new content spikes life into a game.

i can guarantee on sombras release there will also be a spike in player-ship.

SectumSempra fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Oct 21, 2016

Altared State
Jan 14, 2006

I think I was born to burn
Why does this loving game lock you out of competitive for 7 hours when it crashes?

ImPureAwesome
Sep 6, 2007

the king of the beach

We Know Catheters posted:

Why does this loving game lock you out of competitive for 7 hours when it crashes?

It doesn't trust you're not doing it on purpose

SectumSempra
Jun 22, 2011

Bi-Han now we've got Bad Blood
On console i've crashed and been put back in the match.

Also it was the entire team in between rounds

:downs: the other team was still allowed to go to the point on the KOTH map though so we started with a heavy disadvantage

Tweet Me Balls
Apr 14, 2009

Grapplejack posted:

It's almost like they looked at the reset on 100 and decided that people who get past that mark are already heavily invested in overwatch and, without being able to game exp for extra event boxes, will be much more likely to spend money on boxes.

Actually, they're selflessly giving up all the dosh they'd be pulling in from the players who would be at like, level 50 during these events! Blizzard is so nice.

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Proposition Joe
Oct 8, 2010

He was a good man

SectumSempra posted:

On console i've crashed and been put back in the match.

Also it was the entire team in between rounds

:downs: the other team was still allowed to go to the point on the KOTH map though so we started with a heavy disadvantage

Exact same thing happened to me on PS4 on Ilios, but my team won. :)

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