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GAYS FOR DAYS posted:Is there a quick summary of how the defense went? I paid attention during the prosecution, but got distracted from following the trial due to the circus that is the Trump campaign. No. It was four hours long. But basically: Ammon and Co. didn't really mean to impede government employees from doing their jobs, they just wanted to be heard. This was a peaceful protest. You have the power to stop government overreach. They danced around the idea of jury nullification without saying it. Chili is made with eagle tears and freedom and it's not Ammon's fault he took the last can of freedom beans.
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Oct 20, 2016 18:38
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Any verdict that comes today will definitely be guilty. If it starts going multiple days, the risk that some of the nutso nullification poo poo filtered through is higher and higher.
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Oct 20, 2016 18:53
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The verdict will be handed down today and it will be Guilty. Why do people on this forum Arzy so much?
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Oct 20, 2016 18:59
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Elephant Ambush posted:The verdict will be handed down today and it will be Guilty. Why do people on this forum Arzy so much? The uncertainty makes the wait exciting instead of boring.
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Oct 20, 2016 19:00
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It is also worth considering that it takes some time to fill out the forms and for the jurors to poll separately on each charge. So a turnaround of a few hours would be a slam-pick, basically.
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Oct 20, 2016 19:01
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Elephant Ambush posted:The verdict will be handed down today and it will be Guilty. Why do people on this forum Arzy so much? George Bush was a two term president, Trump is the GOP nominee for 2016, the Bunkerville standoff went unpunished for years, and this is the trial we got. So you might say "anything is possible, nothing matters" and realize there's cause for being a little apprehensive.
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Oct 20, 2016 19:12
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To be fair you didn't need to go after a my-first-militia protected Bunkerville when the idiots behind it would just hop on a plane and step off to a welcome party hosted by the cops. If nothing else, at least it was more entertaining this way. If they'd gone after them first, we wouldn't have gotten tarpman.
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Oct 20, 2016 19:40
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Wouldn't it be really surprising to have a verdict today? They have to go through every charge for all of the defendants, and there's a ton of evidence to consider.
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Oct 20, 2016 22:37
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Ogmius815 posted:Wouldn't it be really surprising to have a verdict today? They have to go through every charge for all of the defendants, and there's a ton of evidence to consider. Yes. So many charges and so many defendants. If it comes back today, the jury ignored the facts and will almost certainly come back not guilty. The only way the come back ina few hours is if they all sat down said "gently caress the government" and agreed to aquit everyone. You can't have a vote and dicussion on each charge in the time. If they do come back guilty in less than 2 days, it means the jury didn't do their job.* I'd say under 24-48 hours is the NG zone, 48hrs to 1 week is the guilty zone, and more than 1 week is the hang zone. It is one jury for all defendants, correct? I haven't been following the trial that closely because media reporting on trials pisses me off. *the jury should come back guilty on most or all charges based on what I know, but they should actually be looking at each charge and the facts seriously. This is, at the end of the day, about people's lives and if they just vote guilty on everything without a real exploration they've failed their civic duty. Even in a stupid case like this, a jury should approach the each charge from "I think this guy is innocent, prove me wrong" and only vote guilty once their mind is changed. nm has issued a correction as of 22:49 on Oct 20, 2016 |
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Oct 20, 2016 22:44
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nm posted:Yes. So many charges and so many defendants. It is indeed one jury. And I think they won't deliberate on Friday because some of them are staying in portland during the week and traveling home for the weekend.
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Oct 20, 2016 22:49
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Yes, one jury for all of them. efb edit #2: It'll be next week at the earliest. https://twitter.com/karinapdx/status/789231963957698561 TotalLossBrain has issued a correction as of 23:34 on Oct 20, 2016 |
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Oct 20, 2016 22:49
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GAYS FOR DAYS posted:Is there a quick summary of how the defense went? I paid attention during the prosecution, but got distracted from following the trial due to the circus that is the Trump campaign. The defense was mostly ignoring the content of the charges and trying to paint themselves as compassionate figures in hopes they can rope one juror into a not-guilty. Government: Here's pictures of armed hicks using cars as a blockade and pointing rifles at federal agents. Here's 22 rifles, an assortment of handguns, and 10k+ rounds of ammunition they left behind. Here's Ryan Bundy on tape describing his willingness to kill federal officers. Here's a video recorded by Shawna Cox herself urging Tarpman to ram a police officer with his truck. Ryan Bundy: I just want to see my kids. I'm a good family man. We were just camping. Shawna Cox: The case should be dismissed because the government didn't tell us there were confidential informants at the refuge. Only the Sheriff has jurisdiction, this is a kangaroo court.
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Oct 21, 2016 01:28
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https://twitter.com/maxoregonian/status/789234380069740545 https://twitter.com/maxoregonian/status/789228752844693504
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Oct 21, 2016 01:40
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:https://twitter.com/maxoregonian/status/789234380069740545
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Oct 21, 2016 01:46
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Casimir Radon posted:Oh come on. Yeah you aren't even supposed to be blowing the shofar this time of year.
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Oct 21, 2016 02:05
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Well this trial hasn't been working out for them sho far
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Oct 21, 2016 03:45
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"Everything's coming up Bundy" thought Ryan as he put the spoon of prison stew to his mouth. Thoughts of his impending freedom were temporarily forgotten as some of the gruel spilled out of the slack slide of his face and onto his suicide-proof smock.
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Oct 21, 2016 04:34
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In the Land of Portland where the Liberals lie. One Jury to rule on them all, One Jury to listen to them, One Jury to bring them all in and in the courtroom own them
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Oct 21, 2016 05:21
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Well I guess I was wrong but the verdict will still be Guilty. See you all next week I guess!
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Oct 21, 2016 05:32
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I'm curious as to what happens to a wingnut lawyer like Mumford after something like this. Does his type of clientele think losing a case like this is a good thing? Maybe his incantation to abolish government didn't work this time, but it might work the next. It's not like there's a lot of legal wizards out there trying to cast spells to abolish government. I can imagine him picking up some business after this. I forget, is the guy even licensed to practice law in Oregon or did he just fly across the country to represent Ammon from somewhere else?
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Oct 21, 2016 06:08
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cumshitter posted:I'm curious as to what happens to a wingnut lawyer like Mumford after something like this. He's based in Salt Lake City, and is not licensed in Oregon. However, this was a federal case, so the rules for representing somebody in court are different. This case seems to be outside his normal area of practice. The case is getting very minimal media coverage in Utah. I doubt it will negatively affect his business, but yes, it might drive some sovcit business his way.
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Oct 21, 2016 06:24
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cumshitter posted:I'm curious as to what happens to a wingnut lawyer like Mumford after something like this. There are few downsides because if he gets a guilty, everyone know they did it, and if he gets a hang or NG, everyone will want him for their dead bang loser case. If his shenanigans, get Bundy anything I will be surprised, but I will also be not-so secretly impressed (it will mean he picked a loving amazing jury and this whole crazy thing was a perfect read of that juror(s)). edit: Note that taking a deadbang looser to trial, even if you lose, will give him credibility with other prosecutors as it shows he isn't one of those lovely defense attorneys who talk tough but wet their pants at the sight of a courtroom. This really has nothing but upsides for him. nm has issued a correction as of 06:38 on Oct 21, 2016 |
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Oct 21, 2016 06:35
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red19fire posted:This is a pro-click. She quotes loving Cicero as proof the judge is corrupt and should be dismissed, and since 99% of the FOUR THOUSAND prosecution objections were sustained. Added a teensy missing detail. Holy poo poo.
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Oct 21, 2016 06:36
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Googling Marcus Mumford finds some interesting stuff: http://www.sltrib.com/home/4064521-155/utah-judge-was-biased-jurors-in This guy got 11 years in sentencing, but he was acquitted in most of his charges, likely because they felt sympathy. Pissing off the judge to get juror sympathy is a tactic and he may play this game pretty well. edit: I am bad at reading. Mumford's client loving walked in that case. Winning a federal fraud trial is no joke. nm has issued a correction as of 06:45 on Oct 21, 2016 |
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Oct 21, 2016 06:42
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I'm vaguely aware that losing when you are defending an indefensible client is a Good Thing in lawyering circles. You get cred for trying to push the boulder up that hill. Are there any instances where someone took on a losing case and hosed it up so badly that it actually hurt their career? Like, the jury found their client double guilty or something.
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Oct 21, 2016 06:45
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cumshitter posted:I'm vaguely aware that losing when you are defending an indefensible client is a Good Thing in lawyering circles. You get cred for trying to push the boulder up that hill. "You did so bad at this case you're going to jail instead of your client so you can think about what you've done!"
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Oct 21, 2016 06:46
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"When I get out, I'm gonna kill my lawyer." "Hey, I'm right here. Dick."
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Oct 21, 2016 06:49
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cumshitter posted:I'm vaguely aware that losing when you are defending an indefensible client is a Good Thing in lawyering circles. You get cred for trying to push the boulder up that hill. Yes, but you have to seriously gently caress it up either by like being extremely mean to a rape victim or something. Maybe getting disbarred. This is a case where if he keeps the jury out for a week he gets to claim a moral victory because he made them thing about it. I will say that if this jury came back guilty today or even early on Monday, it would look less good for him. The main thing that would gently caress you would be major mistakes of law (not filing the correct motions, etc) or not trying. Lots of bad defense attorneys get bad cases and give up after failing to get their clients to plea. "I'm in jail for that there incompetence." I'm currently mentally conflicted. I want these fuckers to get punished for what they did, but the defense attorney in me wants this to be part of some great lawyerly scheme that succeeds for no other reason that I'm programmed to like NGs and loving with prosecutors.
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Oct 21, 2016 06:51
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Just want to say I like your posts NM and I appreciate reading an actual defense guy's opinion on poo poo. I get that lawyers are competitive and you want to root for the home team but don't forget that our entire system of law was created to weed out and wall off violent idiot bullies like Ammon & Co. from society. Ammon is literally that rapey bully from John Locke or whatever's treatise on government. We formed committees to use force to chase off morons like him, people with bad opinions of when it's OK to use force in our personal lives, out of our forests. He's got repeat offender written all over his face.
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Oct 21, 2016 06:58
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cumshitter posted:Just want to say I like your posts NM and I appreciate reading an actual defense guy's opinion on poo poo. Oh I agree, which is why I put the first thing in there. There's absolutely nothing acceptable about the bundys' behavior, and they deserve to go to prison. But if he somehow gets an NG, I'm going to be laughing about it anyhow because that defense attorney pulled off the impossible. I don't root for the bad guy, but I do sometimes root for the guy representing him. I'd really prefer the NG to be Fry because he has appointed counsel and PD bros for life (even if appointed attorneys aren't real PDs). Note that I also understand that if Bundy walks the next thing he does will be 10x worse, and we can't have that. edit: It is late here. Basically I want a world where the attorneys get NGs, but the Bundys stay in jail forever. nm has issued a correction as of 07:11 on Oct 21, 2016 |
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Oct 21, 2016 07:04
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I hope Fry walks free, it seems like his parents are supportive and will be there for him. I remember listening to the last night of the occupation, when the FBI was closing in. Fry's parents were on the phone and you could hear them choking up and thinking they were saying their goodbyes to their only child before he ran face first into a fireline of FBI agents. Most of it was hilarious but hearing Fry's dad on the phone supporting his son, just in a general sense, touched me. To me, it sounded like they just wanted to have their last words to their child be positive rather than attempting to talk him out of something they knew he was going to do anyway. Like in the sense of if your child called you and said, "I've got a noose around my neck and I'm about to jump" and you choose to say, "I love you, son," instead of advising them not to kill themselves because you know them well enough to know they won't take your advice. cumshitter has issued a correction as of 07:16 on Oct 21, 2016 |
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Oct 21, 2016 07:13
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OAquinas posted:Added a teensy missing detail. Holy poo poo. WTF that’s like one per minute.
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Oct 21, 2016 07:21
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nm posted:There's gonna be a lot of "I didn't pay my taxes" people who are going to love him. What do you mean about the jury selection? How goofy a jury did they get?
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Oct 21, 2016 07:21
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Somebody at the Onion has a great sense of humor... Trump Holds Strategy Meeting With Campaign’s Top Militia Leaders Ahead Of Election Day Check the title photo...  Tarpman lives
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Oct 21, 2016 12:05
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Who will you cast in the inevitable movie about this incident?
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Oct 21, 2016 12:13
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Who will you cast in the inevitable movie about this incident? Stephen Seagall and Mickey Rourke as the Bundy's. Jon Voight as LaVoy. Directed by Clint Eastwood.
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Oct 21, 2016 12:47
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Who will you cast in the inevitable movie about this incident? Pauly Shore, Rob Schneider, Steven Seagal, Val Kilmer. It's gonna be a comedy, right?
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Oct 21, 2016 13:37
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George Clooney with the left side of his face numbed up with Botox as Ryan Christopher Walken as Cliven John Goodman as Ammon Plus the cast of Spinal Tap Written and directed by the Cohen Bros to the theme of Cicero
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Oct 21, 2016 13:45
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David Denman as Ammon Bundy Robert DuVall as Lavoy Finicum Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Pete Santilli Bill Burr as Jon Ritzheimer
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Oct 21, 2016 14:04
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Krinkle posted:What do you mean about the jury selection? How goofy a jury did they get? If Bundy walks they got the goofiest jury ever.
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Oct 21, 2016 14:15
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