Roguelikes: I never met@progression I didn't like

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Roguelikes: I never met@progression I didn't like

madjackmcmad: May 27, 2008; Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

Jordan7hm posted:

I wonder how many copies he sold of AI to people who didn't know and love him.

Before he gave it to a publisher and the publisher charged 40 bucks for it, he sold a bit. He succeeded at a small Kickstarter too:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/181428952/approaching-infinity-a-space-adventure-roguelike

AI was actually big fun, just not 40 bucks of fun. It does better random planets and meaningful exploration than No Man's Sky.

Curse of Yendor is 4 bucks, btw

# ? Oct 19, 2016 15:06

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# ? May 23, 2024 04:35

doctorfrog: Mar 14, 2007; Great.

I hope to someday play AI, but Shrapnel Games is a very special publisher who preserves the games distribution and pricing model of the pre-AOL 90's the way that North Korea preserves cold-war era war machinery and Cuba preserves 1950's American automobiles.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 19:57

Foo Diddley: Oct 29, 2011; cat

Shrapnel was the publisher that kept Dominions 3 mail-order only for $60 for years. I'm so happy that Illwinter got away from those assholes

# ? Oct 19, 2016 20:36

doctorfrog: Mar 14, 2007; Great.

I wonder if they'd respond to a group buy. I'd be down for AI for $20.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 20:43

Foo Diddley: Oct 29, 2011; cat

You could give it a try but I ain't holding my breath. $20 is about what I'd pay, too

Hey while you're at it, ask 'em how their 82nd Airborne game is coming along

# ? Oct 19, 2016 20:56

StrixNebulosa: Feb 14, 2012; You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Cryptark is on sale at the humble store for 9$ as a daily deal, because apparently the humble store does those now.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 21:26

tombom: Mar 8, 2006

The price is excessive but it'd be a little more bearable if it was on Steam or something, their own special store is awful and you have to pay to download games after the first 10 days from purchase. Shrapnel have released a few interesting games that are never going to get their due because they never promote them or do anything useful and it really sucks to see what looks like a good game just die thanks to its poo poo publisher. I genuinely have no idea how they keep afloat.

tombom fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Oct 19, 2016

# ? Oct 19, 2016 21:40

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

StrixNebulosa posted:

Cryptark is on sale at the humble store for 9$ as a daily deal, because apparently the humble store does those now.

Cryptark is super cool but has major performance issues on my Hackintosh, dropping to single-digit FPS when anything complicated is going on. So, fair warning to OSX gamers.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 22:15

Gooch181: Jan 1, 2008; The Gooch

StrixNebulosa posted:

Cryptark is on sale at the humble store for 9$ as a daily deal, because apparently the humble store does those now.

Thanks, that looks pretty neat. Somehow it reminds me of that Einh�nder PSX game i had a demo for and never managed to buy.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 22:56

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Yeah I won't buy games that aren't on steam / gog anymore unless I know the developer and am explicitly doing it to give them support.

I just forget where stuff I own resides and it's a real hassle to find it.

Cogmind (which kryz was kind enough to give to me) does a really good job updating me when there are updates and providing an easy link, but most developers are terrible at it.

# ? Oct 19, 2016 22:58

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

Gooch181 posted:

Thanks, that looks pretty neat. Somehow it reminds me of that Einh�nder PSX game i had a demo for and never managed to buy.

Einhander is super-good and has aged much better than most PSX games. It's also IMO one of the best games Squaresoft has ever made. :colbert:

Track it down if you like 2D scrolling shmups at all; it's definitely better than, say, Gradius or R-Type (the famous scrolling shmups that aren't bullet-hells).

I can see the similarity you mention, too -- you have multiple hot-swappable weapons but, despite the sci-fi setting, they're mostly all various types of heavy ordinance (cannon rounds, missiles, etc.).

# ? Oct 19, 2016 23:02

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

madjackmcmad posted:

The Approaching Infinity guy is cranking out another adventure, and he just released Beta 4 of The Curse of Yendor. One of his selling points is high environment interaction, blowing up walls, freezing rivers, etc

https://ibol17.itch.io/the-curse-of-yendor

i need to play this

# ? Oct 19, 2016 23:31

Odddzy: Oct 10, 2007; Once shot a man in Reno.

Is there a way to track automatically in doom RL what badges and awards i've won over my playthroughs? I finished angel of berserk on an old save because I didn't realize I already did it.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 03:58

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Odddzy posted:

Is there a way to track automatically in doom RL what badges and awards i've won over my playthroughs? I finished angel of berserk on an old save because I didn't realize I already did it.

You should be able to see all of that from the main menu by selecting "Show player" and cycling through the different screens with left and right.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 04:05

Odddzy: Oct 10, 2007; Once shot a man in Reno.

Floodkiller posted:

You should be able to see all of that from the main menu by selecting "Show player" and cycling through the different screens with left and right.

Thanks man, now I can get back to killing demons productively.

Edit : Actually, what are some good strategies for endgame runs? I usually survive if I do melee builds and can muster enough berserk resistance to go through the gauntlet but end up dying very often on regular shotgun and pistol runs. A reason why might be because I don't have good armors or something but I don't know what I should build towards and often just have a red armor or something.

Odddzy fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Oct 20, 2016

# ? Oct 20, 2016 04:09

Stelas: Sep 6, 2010

One of the easiest runs is the shotgunner run - Take Marine and go for Shottyman asap, then build towards Army of the Dead. If you've got plenty of ammo and hear an enemy in a given direction, a random shot into the darkness can reveal where something is if you hear it in pain.
The game never tells you, but you can use corners as cover. For instance:
code:
```
....|
...C|
....|
....-
....@
```
In this situation, the Cacodemon can't attack you because you're hiding around the corner. You, on the other hand, can shoot them, and with enough knockback from a shotgun you can get lucky enough to keep pushing him back so he can't approach you. If he gets close enough, you back away and find another corner to hide behind. (These are the basics of winning the Arena - hide behind a corner until something's close, then start backpedalling and circle around the pillar you're up against.)
Similarly, the game never tells you, but humanoid enemies will usually beeline to medpacks and prioritize picking them up. This is really useful for luring them to specific locations (and will make melee runs even easier).
As a dumb marine who can't use mods worth a drat, boots + AA for increased movement speed is good early on. A tactical shotgun (combat shotgun + PT) is the best 2-mod shotgun, 5 ammo and doesn't need pumping. You'll be able to pump out a ton of damage in a very short time then reload at the same time as you're running away. Having a shell box on hand as well will make you able to respond really quickly to threats. Stick a power mod on some red armor and hope for a nano pack to turn it into power armor, or else an onyx pack. If I'm playing a technician I usually try to save up for cerberus poo poo (armor/boots + PPTA, prioritize boots for floor immunity)

Stelas fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Oct 20, 2016

# ? Oct 20, 2016 10:26

Odddzy: Oct 10, 2007; Once shot a man in Reno.

Stelas posted:

Awesome help

Thanks man, i'll get to it.

# ? Oct 20, 2016 16:12

I am Otis: Sep 22, 2003

HILLARY CURES DEPLORABLES posted:

i need to play this

It's been fun. I think its worth the 4 bucks

# ? Oct 20, 2016 18:51

RPATDO_LAMD: Mar 22, 2013; 🐘🪠🍆

Stelas posted:

[...] doesn't need pumping. You'll be able to pump [...]

i feel cheated

# ? Oct 20, 2016 20:39

Stelas: Sep 6, 2010

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

i feel cheated

goddammit

after the shottyman/army of the dead run I kind of feel like technician+pistol is the best of the pistol runs, though dualwielding as a scout can also be pretty funny

# ? Oct 20, 2016 23:58

ToxicFrog: Apr 26, 2008

Stelas posted:

goddammit

after the shottyman/army of the dead run I kind of feel like technician+pistol is the best of the pistol runs, though dualwielding as a scout can also be pretty funny

That's how I eventually cleared AoMr, the consistently high damage per shot means you can knock back enemies with pistol shots and maximizes the number of kills you get before you need to reload. With Son of a Gun 3, Finesse 2, Sharpshooter, and an energy pistol/power battery combo, I killed JC almost before he got to act. :black101:

Gun Kata is cooler and more stylistically interesting, but harder to make work reliably, IMO.

# ? Oct 21, 2016 00:51

dis astranagant: Dec 14, 2006

Gun Kata is hilarious in AoMC.

# ? Oct 21, 2016 01:05

ToxicFrog: Apr 26, 2008

dis astranagant posted:

Gun Kata is hilarious in AoMC.

Kind of want to roll an AoMC/Ao100 Gun Kata Scout now in the hopes that those 100 levels will give me some truly absurd toys to play with.

# ? Oct 21, 2016 01:07

dis astranagant: Dec 14, 2006

A pair of high power regular pistols is enough to kill anything less than an archvile without having to manually reload, so long as you don't get screwed by knockback angles.

# ? Oct 21, 2016 01:12

ToxicFrog: Apr 26, 2008

dis astranagant posted:

A pair of high power regular pistols is enough to kill anything less than an archvile without having to manually reload, so long as you don't get screwed by knockback angles.

Yeah, but imagine how much more fun you could have dual-wielding the Anti-Freak Jackal and a Demolition Combat Pistol.

# ? Oct 21, 2016 01:51

Helical Nightmares: Apr 30, 2009

Way the hell late on this one, but the post-mortem Designing Procedural Stealth for Invisible Inc. from GDC is very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8ZkIKPIDdY

----

I messed around for a couple hours with the Approaching Infinity free demo.

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Ibology/AI/AI_page.html

I like it. It strikes me as a polished and finished version of AuroraRL/Prospector.

(above discussed here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3563643&userid=150880&perpage=40&pagenumber=5#post464772696 )

However I have critiques of this genre. Planet exploration can be boring. Prospector (only Prospector) makes this more interesting by making the exploration effectively timed because the longer you explore, the more meteors will hit the planet...and potentially hit you. Also Prospector planets have more dynamic environmental effects (earthquakes, volcanoes, fog).

However all in these games I mentioned (AuroraRL/Prospector/Approaching Infinity) the when the planetary enemies are simple melee combat monsters, these experiences become "samey" and boring.

Even with caves and gathering materials I have not seen a good solution to this. I suppose part of the goal of this genre is to possibly make every planet a level or two of a "normal" roguelike like DCSS. I have yet to see something like this executed.

Then again, perhaps AI solves this in the full version. I don't know.

To continue the Planetary Exploration conversation, in Approaching Infinity's favor the weapons available for the away team are nicely varied. So that makes things a bit more tactical and exciting.

Helical Nightmares fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Oct 22, 2016

# ? Oct 22, 2016 01:25

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

trying to get back into doomrl and boy do i suck at that game

# ? Oct 22, 2016 01:53

spider wisdom: Nov 4, 2011; og data bandit

Helical Nightmares posted:

This is awesome. Good luck and keep at it! Even now I like the graphical aesthetic. I think it needs a little more "something" to be finished; like the central pillars could be elevator bays, computer terminals, have biohazard signs or whatever. Other than that I think you are well on your way graphically.

Hey thanks! I tried some more initial idle anims while sick at home yesterday with sample enemies/zone tiles:

Oh yeah, as far as that "something," I've been trying to determine what the crunch is. Qud has lore and character flexibility, Nethack has everything, Crawl is super easy to get into and has a robust deity system, etc. There's a buuunch of mechanics/systems/wishlist junk I haven't touched on yet, though. One thing I've really wanted to see in a roguelike (and Qud has started to implement) are infections/mutations found in-world. One infection has a dumb name at the moment, but it works like this:

Brood mother: Increase HP regen and vitality; on timer, player "gives birth" to a small brood of creatures than can overwhelm player. Display: Your stomach itches. (Later) Your chest burns. (Later) You feel erratic movement in your abdomen. (Event; several creatures spawn and attack) Your stomach bursts open. You blink twice; the cavity is closed and the pain of birth is wiped away.

Something like that. Rough edges need to be filed down all over the place.

Also started building a library of simple sounds for some things! Here's an idling terminal waiting for the player to log in/hack:

# ? Oct 22, 2016 02:11

Helical Nightmares: Apr 30, 2009

spider wisdom posted:

Oh yeah, as far as that "something," I've been trying to determine what the crunch is.

Well at the moment a the wall is simply functional and I'm suggesting it just look more eyecatching.

Great place to display some world building

Since you are talking about diseases, why not: biohazard symbols, contamination level warnings, some sort of federal agency posters, directions for refugees to go to, DO and DO NOT lists, angry graffiti over all the previous with some truth in their slogans, tears from claws and blood stains on all previous tiles, etc.

Also is the last unit a brain? I'm not sure. Being hyper critical it looks kinda like a lump. May want to define it further.

# ? Oct 22, 2016 02:19

spider wisdom: Nov 4, 2011; og data bandit

Helical Nightmares posted:

Well at the moment a the wall is simply functional and I'm suggesting it just look more eyecatching.

Great place to display some world building

Since you are talking about diseases, why not: biohazard symbols, contamination level warnings, some sort of federal agency posters, directions for refugees to go to, DO and DO NOT lists, angry graffiti over all the previous with some truth in their slogans, tears from claws and blood stains on all previous tiles, etc.

Also is the last unit a brain? I'm not sure. Being hyper critical it looks kinda like a lump. May want to define it further.

Ahh, I get you. Yeah, that's in the works too.

It...sorta is a lump, yeah. That's the layer name in photoshop, anyway.

# ? Oct 22, 2016 02:32

Helical Nightmares: Apr 30, 2009

Roguelikes : lump.psd

# ? Oct 22, 2016 02:45

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

spider wisdom posted:

Hey thanks! I tried some more initial idle anims while sick at home yesterday with sample enemies/zone tiles:

Oh yeah, as far as that "something," I've been trying to determine what the crunch is. Qud has lore and character flexibility, Nethack has everything, Crawl is super easy to get into and has a robust deity system, etc. There's a buuunch of mechanics/systems/wishlist junk I haven't touched on yet, though. One thing I've really wanted to see in a roguelike (and Qud has started to implement) are infections/mutations found in-world. One infection has a dumb name at the moment, but it works like this:

Brood mother: Increase HP regen and vitality; on timer, player "gives birth" to a small brood of creatures than can overwhelm player. Display: Your stomach itches. (Later) Your chest burns. (Later) You feel erratic movement in your abdomen. (Event; several creatures spawn and attack) Your stomach bursts open. You blink twice; the cavity is closed and the pain of birth is wiped away.

Something like that. Rough edges need to be filed down all over the place.

Also started building a library of simple sounds for some things! Here's an idling terminal waiting for the player to log in/hack:

I am really liking the lightly animated outlines. Neat stylistic choice!

# ? Oct 22, 2016 03:51

lordfrikk: Mar 11, 2010; Oh, say it ain't fuckin' so,
you stupid fuck!

I finally want to buy Approaching Infinity on Steam, wasn't the guy's contract supposed to expire by now?

# ? Oct 22, 2016 07:48

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

as far as i can tell a good deal of the tips/tricks/tactics for doomrl on the web don't apply so well for the final version, what's the best place to find good info these days? even the official wiki is sort of weirdly half-complete with regards to that

# ? Oct 23, 2016 02:51

spiritual bypass: Feb 19, 2008; Grimey Drawer

Holy poo poo, Caves Of Qud is really cool and accessible

# ? Oct 23, 2016 03:38

Killer-of-Lawyers: Apr 22, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

lordfrikk posted:

I finally want to buy Approaching Infinity on Steam, wasn't the guy's contract supposed to expire by now?

Is he the guy who made the really pricey prospector style space Rogue?

Wasn't he all for how pricy it was for dumb reasons like physical disks and crap?

# ? Oct 23, 2016 06:13

lordfrikk: Mar 11, 2010; Oh, say it ain't fuckin' so,
you stupid fuck!

Killer-of-Lawyers posted:

Is he the guy who made the really pricey prospector style space Rogue?

Wasn't he all for how pricy it was for dumb reasons like physical disks and crap?

From what I've read on the Shrapnel forums he changed his mind about the whole thing but that was indeed his original stance.

# ? Oct 23, 2016 08:25

Stelas: Sep 6, 2010

Tollymain posted:

as far as i can tell a good deal of the tips/tricks/tactics for doomrl on the web don't apply so well for the final version, what's the best place to find good info these days? even the official wiki is sort of weirdly half-complete with regards to that

To be honest I have no loving clue. The forums on the wiki's site, probably, except last I knew they tended to be kind of cagey when it came to giving up The Knowledge.

# ? Oct 23, 2016 10:29

ToxicFrog: Apr 26, 2008

Tollymain posted:

as far as i can tell a good deal of the tips/tricks/tactics for doomrl on the web don't apply so well for the final version, what's the best place to find good info these days? even the official wiki is sort of weirdly half-complete with regards to that

What kind of info are you looking for? The wiki has been pretty helpful for me, but maybe I'm not looking for the same stuff.

E: I think I may need to modify the server to not show games that never made it past level 1 on the main high score list or something, all my ill-fated UV100 runs are making it pretty crowded

ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Oct 23, 2016

# ? Oct 23, 2016 12:06

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# ? May 23, 2024 04:35

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Stelas posted:

To be honest I have no loving clue. The forums on the wiki's site, probably, except last I knew they tended to be kind of cagey when it came to giving up The Knowledge.

I'd almost push for a goonwiki on it, but with Jupiter Hell's kickstarter finally on the horizon, I don't know if anyone would go in on it. There's a blessed fortune cookie joke about the old wiki somewhere in there, but hell if I can find it.

Relatedly:

First HNTR win! :toot:

# ? Oct 23, 2016 12:54

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