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No, the stupid ones are the 2 minute mini-Bollywood self-delusion episodes that come out of nowhere with no relation to anything other "this is the character's basic gimmick". 2-4 is pretty good and a reasonable (and satisfying) reaction considering the character, unlike the interpretative dance or whatever the gently caress 6-2 was doing. Most newer breakdowns just leave me thinking "wow, i've been picking on the mentally handicapped for the last 2 hours, maybe i should go to jail instead". Feels bad. And even though it's pretty long, i do like 5-3 as well. It's awesome to see the audience join in to batter down the culprit's stupid convictions. "Wait, why is no one agreeing with me?"
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Oct 20, 2016 11:46
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Rangpur posted:Oh my God, the 4th case actually does revovle around rakugo and karuta cards. I thought everyone who mentioned that was taking the piss. To be fair the game does an okay job of explaining them, but I feel like most of it would be flying over my head were it not for a couple recent anime. (Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju and Chihayafuru, respectively, fwiw.) For what it's worth, I don't watch anime at all and I followed case 4 just fine. When they first mentioned Rakugo, I looked it up on Wikipedia and read the summary, then went on my merry way. legoman727 posted:Actually, speaking of breakdowns, what are everyone's favorite in the series? Going to go with a classic, 1-4. Just so satisfying. I even went back and replayed that case after playing AAI2, and it was even more satisfying then.
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Oct 20, 2016 12:01
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HenryEx posted:No, the stupid ones are the 2 minute mini-Bollywood self-delusion episodes that come out of nowhere with no relation to anything other "this is the character's basic gimmick". 2-4 is pretty good and a reasonable (and satisfying) reaction considering the character, unlike the interpretative dance or whatever the gently caress 6-2 was doing. Most newer breakdowns just leave me thinking "wow, i've been picking on the mentally handicapped for the last 2 hours, maybe i should go to jail instead". Feels bad. While I'd agree with you in general, I don't agree on specifics. I thought 6-2's breakdown flowed really well from the character's arc up to that point, and the descent into madness felt like a natural consequence of the insane hatred they had been bottling up. 5-3, on the other hand, took a potentially serious character who could have been a menacing and powerful mastermind and turned them into a dumb joke idiot for no apparent reason.
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Oct 20, 2016 12:05
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Ace Attorney is a dumb jokey series, in general.
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Oct 20, 2016 13:39
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Nate RFB posted:Ace Attorney is a dumb jokey series, in general. Sure, but does that make Moe okay? Moe is great.
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Oct 20, 2016 13:59
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Not Moe. Never Moe. As far as breakdowns go, I rather liked 6-3. It was understated but affecting. Meanwhile 6-2 came off as, uh... I can't believe I'm saying this about a Phoenix Wright game but I actually found it too over-the-top. And I liked case 6-2, understand. It's one of the better 2nd cases in the series, but where do you even go from there after a breakdown like that? Something so involved I'd think you want to save for the climax of the entire game. (Disclaimer: I have not actually finished the game yet.) Is there a good time to try the DLC case? I thought I'd give it a shot after 6-4 unless there are spoilers for the last case in there.
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Oct 20, 2016 14:11
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Rangpur posted:Not Moe. Never Moe. 6-2 was in fact the climax of the game Apollo Justice so I think it's fine.
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Oct 20, 2016 14:17
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Rangpur posted:Is there a good time to try the DLC case? I thought I'd give it a shot after 6-4 unless there are spoilers for the last case in there. After finishing the game is best. No explicit spoilers for the final case, but it's set afterwards and there are some implied spoilers. e: The non-canon side stories can be played now, if you want to bother with them. They're both set around the same time as 6-4. NRVNQSR fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Oct 20, 2016 |
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Oct 20, 2016 15:45
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Fwiw I think the DLC case was really underwhelming after 6-5 so it might be in your best interests to play it now.
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Oct 20, 2016 16:23
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ROFL Octopus posted:Fwiw I think the DLC case was really underwhelming after 6-5 so it might be in your best interests to play it now. I really don't think you should do this Just save the DLC case for when you're really longing for more Ace Attorney
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Oct 20, 2016 16:31
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Case 4: Nahyuta just suddenly performing Rakugo mid-trial is bizarrely awesome. In part because it's Nahyuta and in part because he's all "I'll give an overview" and then just does it instead. 
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Oct 20, 2016 18:15
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OH GOD (DLC) Phoenix's spikes show up on X-ray Edit: CRAVAT! E2: EMA IN HER NICEST DUUUUUDS! I LOVE YOU SCIENCE BABY Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Oct 21, 2016 |
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Oct 21, 2016 00:28
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DLC spoilers Everyone looked super good and dressed up in that scene and there's Nick and Miles in their same old work clothes. It's a wedding, come on guys!! You can wear something else for once! Even Larry cleaned up!
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Oct 21, 2016 02:50
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Just finished the game proper. Ah, I've forgotten how this series consumes me. All in all, I feel this is one of the series' best entries. The only problem, and it's a major one, is that Nahyuta was a tremendous bore of a prosecutor/character, and made me hate the word 'putrid' by association. What I really liked is that at no point in this game did I feel things were dragging unnecessarily. The game is aware of which cases are its worst and keeps them mercifully short. I also liked that every trial day has a resolution and verdict, in a sense. It kept the pace lively and interesting, again avoiding that old chestnut of making everything drag on way too long. As I was playing them, cases 2 and 4 annoyed me with their predictability; as soon as Retinz showed up, I instantly knew his big twist and motive, and as soon as it was established that Geiru was feeding the dogs, I had already guessed that she was feeding them crucial evidence that would implicate her. Again, these issues were offset by both cases not dragging on too long. Then the final case came around and totally blew me away. In terms of emotional intensity, I'd put it up there with 2-4, easily. When Dhurke was revealed to have been dead the whole time, that genuinely surprised me, and when Amara was shot in court, I actually gasped aloud. That said, did we really need Garan's cleavage to be a plot point? But yeah, solid game, great ride, will continue following the series with great interest.
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Oct 21, 2016 08:24
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Well poo poo. I more or less gave up on this franchise back in high school after hearing AA4's premise and thinking "drat that sounds like a bummer, I don't even want to play that because I want to pretend that PW and maya solved mysteries and argued about step ladders as best buds until the end of time after AA3." I kind of stopped following the franchise after that. So now I have a ton of free time on my hands (funnily enough because I am waiting for my bar results and am not allowed to work until then) and I had some friends get hyped about SoJ so I was like gently caress it. I marathoned AA4-5-6 in a course of like a month, starting the next game immediately upon completion of former, and now I am full of feelings let me tell you about them in excruciating detail Note the only spoilers marked are for AA6, skip this post if you havent played AA5 but also what are you doing in this thread if thats the case?: Apollo is a good character. It's really obvious that the writing staff changed hands between 4 and 5 though, and it was initially a bit strange to me how every game seemed to drop massive amounts of backstory on us that we never even got an inkling of in the game before. I heard the argument that AA3 essentially does the same thing with Dahlia and Mia's first case, but I think that's different because its not that much more backstory... DD and SOJ each individually had more to tell us about Apollo than TT had to tell us about PW. But ultimately, this is a problem of presentation/execution to me, not one of content. I thought every story beat regarding Apollo's backstory to be good and satisfying, but in a perfect world where the writers had it all in mind from the get-go it could have been even better with a little foreshadowing and spacing out of the these story beats. The whole thing almost makes me want like a directors cut/extended edition of AA4 where Apollo alludes to a childhood abroad and mentions/interacts with Clay some. Speaking of AA4, I notice that some people really hate it, but I quite liked it. I mentioned being an old fan of the original trilogy so it, so I felt a betrayed at AA4's premise. But that also meant I was immediately emotionally invested in the game's central mystery (how did PW end up like this?!) and for all the misteps it made in the game's latter half, I quite enjoyed resolving that mystery and nailing the responsible party. And it sucks that AJ got pushed out of the climax of his own game, but I had this problem mitigated for by the fact that I played AA5 and 6 immediately after. That's something else I've noticed among other AA fans... I feel as if the amount of time that passed between them playing AA4 and AA5 affected their odds of liking AA4. Like if they played AA4 at release then had to wait 5 years thinking that that was the end of the story forever it soured their opinion of the game beyond the ability of the game's strength's to save. I sympathize (imagine if you never knew ROTJ would ever come and the SW movies just left ur best bro han solo in a brick) but I really do think that AA4 was indispensible as a starting point for Apollo's arc. 4-1 has been discussed to death, and I think it's quite strong characterization that Apollo punched PW at the end of it. That's kind of a big deal: physically assaulting your own client IN A COURTHOUSE. Between 4-1 and 4-2 a whole month passes, and he is initially not pleased at all to be standing in that mess of an office. He says he shows up because PW called him with a job offer and he's desperate. (I assume he spent that month sending out resumes and not hearing back/getting form rejection letters.) He's indignant at the prospect of escorting a 15 year old girl around rather than doing what he studied/trained to do. He's in awe of PW's legend but has reservations about the man himself after that questionable playing card. All of this is more or less conveyed by throwaway lines but they are part of why I disagree with what people have said about AJ himself getting no characterization in his own game. As an aside, this would have been a good time to first mention Clay. I hate the word "head-canon" but I do kind of like to imagine that it was Clay who convinced him to take the leap and show up at a disbarred attorney's former office despite his reasonable reservations. I really think that my enjoyment and personal satisfaction of the ending of SOJ was greatly enhanced for my having those AA4 story beats and initial characterization fresh in my mind as I experienced SOJ's climax and resolution. AJ going from being played by PW like a puppet and punching him in the face for it to defeating PW in court then having PW explicitly recognize his growth at the very end was a crazy journey, a journey that in my eyes can stand proudly with anything the original trilogy has to offer. Also while we are talking about my fantasy AA4 Directors cut, are we ok with retconning PW's disbarrment to maybe be for a shorter period. For some reason I still find a whole 7 years to be a bummer even after he got his badge back. Also let's talk about 4-3. I think 4-3 could have been much better if they let you skip around that video like you can with AA6's insights. Also maybe change the weapon or defendant so that the initial indictment doesn't feel ridiculous. Adults can be blind pianists too you know. I'd have added a scene here where Trucy asks Apollo about why he chose to become an attorney or the fact that he's an orphan. This would allow a vague initial allusion to AA6 and his time with Durke and Nahyuta, thematically foreshadow the Lamiroir reveal at the end of AA4, and let Apollo and Trucy bond a little over their similarly difficult pasts. Trucy is obviously quite close to Apollo by AA5 and 6... the first time I really ever remember seeing Trucy sad was at the end of AA5 when she worries whether Apollo left because she did something wrong and this theoretical conversation in 4-3 could lay the groundwork for that and act similarly to how PW and maya initially bonded over the loss of mia. As an aside Trucy is cool and cute and even if they weren't blood related she would still be Apollo's magical little sister and if you don't like her we can never be friends irl which sucks for you because I am a rad dude who writes huge effort posts about anime lawyers. E: ALSO I want an eventual sequel because I want more AA (I'll try to track down the edgeworth games) but crux of SOJ for me was AJ's arc and the ending and I would be really mad if they backtracked on any of that for a sequel. If AJ deservedly becomes a more popular character following SOJ, I hope the writers are smart enough to leave well enough alone. Let's give Athena her own game. Anyways here are a few more misc. ace attorney thoughtpinions: Having an actual law degree made Themis Academy from AA5 seem extra absurd. This is a weird anime/mange thing I notice, where vocational/professional schools that I, being from the US, are used to seeing as a undergraduate/graduate program are actually high schools. See also, tootsuki cooking academy from Shokugeki no Soma. Are vocational high schools an actual thing in Japan? I am certain that Blackquill has videos on the internet of himself expounding on proper edge alignment and cutting up water bottles/soaked tatami mats in his garage. Nothing will convince me otherwise. It was an absolutely brilliant move to have Dhurke as your assistant for that first part of 6-5. It was a very efficient way to make you give a poo poo about him in a very short amount of time, which is actually extremely difficult to do. It made the gut punch near the end of that case actually hurt. It was one of the most memorable twists in the series and the emotional payoff could have easily whiffed if they had shown too much or too little of Dhurke during that first investigation. Stop overusing Edgeworth. I love Edgeworth but I really feel his appearance in AA5 was completely unnecessary and his involvement in AA6 could have been halved. Edgeworth IMO more effective when used sparingly: that wonderful nostalgic feeling of "good to see you, old friend" the game is clearly trying to evoke loses its punch when you try to do it over and over and over. Maybe I'm in the minority with this opinion. As an aside I also really hated how they overused Mia in AA1 and AA2, as it kind of undercut Maya's loss. What are the rules regarding spirit channeling btw? Sometimes it kind of makes death feel like a nonissue when its overused. Were I Shu Takumi I'd have written in some sort of limit, like maybe it getting harder and harder to channel someone the longer they've already been channeled. I'm fine with the way Pearl acts and talks but they really should have changed her hair/appearance. It is super weird to have the same hairstyle as you did when you were 8. Also she should drop the Mr. in front of everyone's name. It'd go a long way to making her sound older without changing her character overmuch. I haven't finished the DLC yet but from what I saw of Maya this game I really liked her portrayal. Her talk with Rayfa at the end of 6-3 made it extremely apparent that she had grown, without sacrificing the silliness that makes her fun. However, I want to enforce a strict once-per-game limit on Maya needing to be saved or rescued. I loved what the Apollo v Phoenix trial in 6-5 meant for Apollo but I hated what it meant for Phoenix and Maya. You can really only get away with what 2-4 did once per franchise. It would have been far, far more interesting if there was an actual good-faith dispute. Like say the Crystal of Ami Fey is an important artifact that legitimizes the control of the Fey clan over Kurain village or something and Maya actually needed it. Of course that would deprive us of Apollo's though route at the end of 6-5 day 1 where he outsmarts not only phoenix but also Inga. That was so so good. Apollo is the best. If Maya has to have been kidnapped it was a missed opportunity to show how Phoenix himself had grown by handling the situation more effectively, something I think PW would be capable of as of AA4. Do your brain cells just shut down if Maya is on the line Phoenix? Do you want to kiss her? I was pretty against that before the time skip because Maya still seemed like a kid emotionally, but I actually trust this post time-skip demonstrably more mature Maya to make intelligent choices about her personal life so if you want to try kissing her go ahead. The age diff is less weird now too. Lastly I really liked the Insight portions but they really needed to be more forgiving with bigger hitboxes for objects and a half-second grace period before and after the relevant frame. Alternatively they could label what your pointing to... have it say "Sight:Lamp" instead of just "Sight" so you know the game knows that you are trying to point at the lamp specifically. I understand that might give away teh puzzle in some cases though so I don't know. But I think it's really telling that the only times I've had to look up a walkthrough were during these Insight sections, and only to check if I'm actually in the wrong, or I have the correct answer but the game just won't register it because i'm a quarter second or a few cm off. insanityv2 fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 01:16
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Make sure you go into AAI1 & 2 next! The first one is kind of mediocre, but the second one is one of the best games in the franchise.
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Oct 22, 2016 02:06
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I love AAI1, but AAI2 is incredible.
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Oct 22, 2016 02:30
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How the heck are you guys even playing AAI2? Did someone release a translation patch?
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Oct 22, 2016 02:33
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Rangpur posted:How the heck are you guys even playing AAI2? Did someone release a translation patch? Yeah over two years ago
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Oct 22, 2016 02:34
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I finished the DLC and it felt like a strong 6, weak 7 out of 10. The cast was too small and it made the villain too easy to guess. Larry needs to tone it down a little. It's a smart move for Phoenix not to let him interact with Trucy because he's been hitting on Maya since she was like 16. We have history Larry but loving watch yourself. Personally I would have had larry wander off during Day 1 investigation and had a different witness during the trial. Like Edgeworth, Larry needs to be taken in small doses, and another witness would have made the final culprit a little harder to guess. Maya seemed like her old self which annoyed me initially because of her great character development in the game proper but then I remembered how when I hang out with my old high school friends some personality traits I had in high school kind of resurface so I attributed it to a similar phenomenon. One thing I really didn't like however was how poorly the game treated Athena. Poor Athena, she's really enthusiastic about wanting to help. I kept wanting to bring her along and felt bad whenever PW told her to shove off and go hang out with Trucy. There's room in the car for another right? I'd have much preferred if Athena and Trucy were on vacation, or even better if they were working on their own, unrelated case. Unrelated but, Between hearing Prosecutor's Sadhmadhi's name from a friend and seeing the game's art/premise online, there was a glorious five minutes or so where I thought the Prosecutor would look like this: 
insanityv2 fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 04:32
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Made it to the first day of the trial in case 5. That's a good way to shake up the formula.
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Oct 22, 2016 06:15
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Rangpur posted:Made it to the first day of the trial in case 5. That's a good way to shake up the formula. Getting to that point felt like getting to the first trial day of 3-5. Like, yeah, neat, definitely a way of demonstrating raised stakes, but I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.
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Oct 22, 2016 08:19
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Case 5 Day 2 trial Dhurke just escaped to set Amara free, and I've had this bananas-rear end theory that Amara has been Nayna this whole time, and also killed Inga and is hiding inside her own tomb which is how the closed room murder happened, and also why she's been missing this whole time  At first I thought it was silly but the further I go, the more actually likely it seems it could be. It also means that since she used to be queen, she can channel spirits, and therefore could have channeled Inga instead of Maya.The only other person I'd normally share ridiculous theories with is still like, two games behind and I need to commit this to see either how close or how hilariously far off I was when I finish. Despite the rambling run on sentence of a madman, I'm pretty sure of this one Also I love that Datz is basically Larry if instead of ruining everything by accident, he totally owns it. EDIT: oh no Danaru fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 09:44
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Datz is legitimately the best new character since Detective Badd and we should all aspire to be more like him in our lives.
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Oct 22, 2016 10:09
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Is there ganna be another DLC case?
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Oct 22, 2016 11:35
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Danaru posted:Case 5 Day 2 trial Datz is basically Dhurke's Larry. And just like how Dhurke has a lot of stuff that almost makes him seem like "Phoenix Wright but cooler", Datz often feels like "Larry Butz but more successful and cool and funny and great" and I love him.
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Oct 22, 2016 12:36
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Calico Heart posted:Is there ganna be another DLC case? All the content has been released unless they plan on bringing the Basara costumes over.
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Oct 22, 2016 15:12
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I got the DLC case last night, and... Uh... At the very least, I'm enjoying the defendant's animations.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:20
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There's airships, time travel, and a golden clock that's very much like one of a child's toys, but a toy for adults.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:23
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The fact that it feature Larry as a witness is the main reason I haven't bought it yet. He's up there with Oldbag for characters who've overstayed their welcome.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:39
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I'm currently failing at comprehending what the point to the 4th case was and I'm feeling doubtful that case 5 day 2 is going to change my thoughts on the matter.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:54
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The fourth case, much like the second case of the last game, exists explicitly to gently caress with the localization team.
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Oct 22, 2016 17:58
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Case 5: the sort-of bait and switch with Sarge's mother is amazing. House on fire, no help coming, cradled in arms, very melodramatic, very simple... then she kicks out a window and leaps outta the house like it ain't no thing. Hell yeah!Einwand posted:I'm currently failing at comprehending what the point to the 4th case was To give you a mystery to solve in this murder-mystery video game that you paid good money for?
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Oct 22, 2016 19:11
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Plom Bar posted:Datz is legitimately the best new character since Detective Badd and we should all aspire to be more like him in our lives. This is the truest statement in this whole thread.
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Oct 23, 2016 00:07
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The first time he showed up he was just an irritating, goofy time waster trying too hard to be zany, but boy howdy, the things a good shave can do for your character are amazing!
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Oct 23, 2016 00:32
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Datz is great but Sarge is better.
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Oct 23, 2016 14:59
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Lurdiak posted:Datz is great but Sarge is better. This is completely correct and if anyone should come back next game it should be Sarge.
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Oct 23, 2016 16:14
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Most of the witnesses in this game are pretty great tbh
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Oct 23, 2016 16:59
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I wish there were more of them!
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Oct 23, 2016 17:11
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Im currently playing AAI2 and logic chess is really good. I cant believe they never used a mechanic like that again after that.
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Oct 23, 2016 17:59
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