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Brainiac Five posted:Blut und Boden is an increasing problem in Europe, and it's amusing to think that while American liberals are trying with all their might to delegitimize fascism, their Euro counterparts are insisting on the greatness of fascist nationalism. Some people enjoy that there is a bit of human history and tradition behind the things they buy instead of consuming "Kraft Corporation Parmegiano Reggiano model 1447, assembly plant BH99 Tijuana", even though the dehumanized latter option offers greater efficiency. I had no idea that just because I knew that a bit of cheese I bought was ripened in the same cellars as it used to be hundreds of years ago using the same techniques I contributed to the Hitler Revival Project. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 18:01
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Brainiac Five posted:Blut und Boden is an increasing problem in Europe, and it's amusing to think that while American liberals are trying with all their might to delegitimize fascism, their Euro counterparts are insisting on the greatness of fascist nationalism.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:01
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The idea that the descendants of the people who invented certain foods and beverages and passed the formulas from generation to generation should be able to retain control over the good name and rooted identity of their heritage is FASCISTIC and INCONVENIENT TO THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:04
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:It's funny how they can grasp what a trademark is perfectly fine, but it absolutely breaks their minds when the owner of that trademark is not a for-profit organization and not trying to get as much money out of it as possible. It simply does not compute. If you convert all the PDOs into regular trademarks, without specific protection against Genericization I would be totally on board with that.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:04
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steinrokkan posted:Some people enjoy that there is a bit of human history and tradition behind the things they buy instead of consuming "Kraft Corporation Parmegiano Reggiano model 1447, assembly plant BH99 Tijuana", even though the dehumanized latter option offers greater efficiency. Cat Mattress posted:Holy gently caress you guys are severely retarded if you believe that saying only cheeses made in Camembert can be called Camembert cheeses is fascism. Saying that PDOs reinforce the connection between a people and the land is drawing on the agricultural ideas of Richard Walther Darre and other Nazi theorists. You can have standards for what constitutes Camembert and have them require it be made in Camembert without getting into repulsive beliefs about blood and soil. In fact, I would suggest that blood-and-soil beliefs be violently opposed and purged because they will only taint the concept of PDOs if you allow them to flourish. It is of course too late for the provincial jackasses and losers who populate this thread with their mosquito whines about the perfidious, multicultural American, but in the hope that there are some lurkers who are not irretrievably damned...
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Oct 22, 2016 18:08
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GaussianCopula posted:If you convert all the PDOs into regular trademarks, without specific protection against Genericization I would be totally on board with that. PDOs aren't traditional trademarks, because they relegate the care for a protected name on a community defined by the preexisting intangible traits of the product, rather than on an arbitrary corporate entity or a consortium of entities.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:09
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Brainiac Five posted:Saying that PDOs reinforce the connection between a people and the land is drawing on the agricultural ideas of Richard Walther Darre and other Nazi theorists. You can have standards for what constitutes Camembert and have them require it be made in Camembert without getting into repulsive beliefs about blood and soil. In fact, I would suggest that blood-and-soil beliefs be violently opposed and purged because they will only taint the concept of PDOs if you allow them to flourish. It is of course too late for the provincial jackasses and losers who populate this thread with their mosquito whines about the perfidious, multicultural American, but in the hope that there are some lurkers who are not irretrievably damned... People do not deserve an identity. Move along, poster ABC123. Also colonialism, forced urbanization and slave trade were good because they liberated people from the nazi influence of being tied to land.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:10
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steinrokkan posted:The idea that the descendants of the people who invented certain foods and beverages and passed the formulas from generation to generation should be able to retain control over the good name and rooted identity of their heritage... ..is against the PDO system because the PDO system would bar those descendants if they don't live in the same place but are still doing the same thing as their great-great-great-grandpa did. Meanwhile some random multinational company can move into the designated territory, hire nobody with heritage in the production other than paying off one of them to buy the recipe, and that's meant to be treated as genuine. LOL
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Oct 22, 2016 18:10
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fishmech posted:..is against the PDO system because the PDO system would bar those descendants if they don't live in the same place but are still doing the same thing as their great-great-great-grandpa did. If they meet the requirements set in the protected designation charter, there's no issue.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:12
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steinrokkan posted:The idea that the descendants of the people who invented certain foods and beverages and passed the formulas from generation to generation should be able to retain control over the good name and rooted identity of their heritage is FASCISTIC and INCONVENIENT TO THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM. See, dude, your ideal is that if a Chinese guy moves to Champagne and works in the wine industry the wine he works on is tainted from being Champagne, because for you this is all about microethnicity. That is, it matters less that the proper grapes, process of in-bottle fermentation, or production within Champagne itself are used than that a proper Frenchman whose family has lived in the right place is doing it. This obsession with proper blood quanta is nothing more or less than grotesque racism. steinrokkan posted:People do not deserve an identity. Move along, poster ABC123. Idolization of peasant lifestyles was pretty important to the Nazis, so whining about the pesky urbanites is not helping you any (not that your fellow members of the brain trust would stop defending you even if you started quoting Himmler outright).
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Oct 22, 2016 18:15
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steinrokkan posted:If they meet the requirements set in the protected designation charter, there's no issue. Well that violates your principle of "the descendants of the people who invented certain foods and beverages and passed the formulas from generation to generation" being in control and making the stuff. Clearly Agrilever Foodconglom AG can't be said to have that sort of connection to the people or the land?
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Oct 22, 2016 18:20
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Brainiac Five posted:See, dude, your ideal is that if a Chinese guy moves to Champagne and works in the wine industry the wine he works on is tainted from being Champagne, because for you this is all about microethnicity. That is, it matters less that the proper grapes, process of in-bottle fermentation, or production within Champagne itself are used than that a proper Frenchman whose family has lived in the right place is doing it. This obsession with proper blood quanta is nothing more or less than grotesque racism. You are an idiot. The PDO system does not care about who is making a product, as long as it's made through a specific manufacturing process and is made in a specific region. You can also make the product where ever you want and however you like, but then you won't get the permission to use the branding of the region.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:22
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Brainiac Five posted:See, dude, your ideal is that if a Chinese guy moves to Champagne and works in the wine industry the wine he works on is tainted from being Champagne, because for you this is all about microethnicity. That is, it matters less that the proper grapes, process of in-bottle fermentation, or production within Champagne itself are used than that a proper Frenchman whose family has lived in the right place is doing it. This obsession with proper blood quanta is nothing more or less than grotesque racism.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:23
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LemonDrizzle posted:Ah, it's time for the thread to go full retard over PDOs again for the next 20 pages. Always fun when this discussion rolls around. I wasn't even involved this time! But blowfish was! Hey YF-23! This time it's blowfish It's blowfish who did the thing!
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Oct 22, 2016 18:25
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Like, this is almost exactly the same poo poo as with aspirin. It's a generic name in the US, but a protected Bayer brand in Germany. Why is this so hard to grasp? 
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Oct 22, 2016 18:25
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Jesus dick people, feta is not fascism. Saying that PDOs are a sign that Europe is falling to the clutches of fascism while US liberalism is the brave bulwark against it is pretty much American exceptionalism, and the same kind of rabid nationalism you accuse Europe of in the same sentence.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:25
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Brainiac Five posted:See, dude, your ideal is that if a Chinese guy moves to Champagne and works in the wine industry the wine he works on is tainted from being Champagne, because for you this is all about microethnicity. That is, it matters less that the proper grapes, process of in-bottle fermentation, or production within Champagne itself are used than that a proper Frenchman whose family has lived in the right place is doing it. This obsession with proper blood quanta is nothing more or less than grotesque racism.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:27
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YF-23 posted:Jesus dick people, feta is not fascism. Saying that PDOs are a sign that Europe is falling to the clutches of fascism while US liberalism is the brave bulwark against it is pretty much American exceptionalism, and the same kind of rabid nationalism you accuse Europe of in the same sentence. It's cultural appropriation but against white people. I'm triggered.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:29
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:You can also make the product where ever you want and however you like, but then you won't get the permission to use the branding of the region. And maybe in hundred years your product will become notorious enough to warrant protection from immitators as well, and will have assumed an identity of its own instead of parasiting on somebody else's work.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:28
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steinrokkan posted:What a weird projection. PDOs can be seen as a parallel to old guild systems. They rely on the collective of certified members of the trade (producers) to censure compliance with traditional guidelines. The set of skills and knowledge is not tied to a microethnicity, it's tied to the gate keeping role of the current producers who induce new members into their midst, and guarantee their abilities with their own reputation, as well as certify the quality of products made by their employees / apprentices. If somebody comes into the region and applies for / begins working in a protected business, he is part of the guild, and contributes to informing the next generation of the tradition. This is how crafts and trades have always operated, and how the protection of local brands should continue to operate. So in other words, you're readily abandoning "descendants of the people who invented certain foods and beverages and passed the formulas from generation to generation" but you don't want to admit you did so. So as far as anyone can tell, since you won't repudiate your putrescent statements, you're simply trying to cover them up. Anyways, the first European trade unions emerged as a response to guilds severely restricting the process of becoming a journeyman or master, so I assume you're ignorant instead of gleeful about crushing worker rights. YF-23 posted:Jesus dick people, feta is not fascism. Saying that PDOs are a sign that Europe is falling to the clutches of fascism while US liberalism is the brave bulwark against it is pretty much American exceptionalism, and the same kind of rabid nationalism you accuse Europe of in the same sentence. That is not what anyone has said. What has been said is that emphasizing PDOs as being about blood is fascistic, and supposed liberals in Europe praising this kind of nationalistic nonsense instead of clamping down hard on it is a dangerous sign for Europe. By comparison, American liberals are freaked out about a cartoonish caricature of a fascist, suggesting, disturbingly, that Americans are more on the lookout for possible fascism than the people who suffered most from it. Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:You are an idiot. The PDO system does not care about who is making a product, as long as it's made through a specific manufacturing process and is made in a specific region. I am talking about the particular Bohemian sack of poo poo, rather than the PDO system as a whole. Supposedly, European educational systems are better than American ones, but this seems handily disproved by the intellectual abilities on display here.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:32
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Brainiac Five posted:So in other words, you're readily abandoning "descendants of the people who invented certain foods and beverages and passed the formulas from generation to generation" but you don't want to admit you did so. So as far as anyone can tell, since you won't repudiate your putrescent statements, you're simply trying to cover them up. Anyways, the first European trade unions emerged as a response to guilds severely restricting the process of becoming a journeyman or master, so I assume you're ignorant instead of gleeful about crushing worker rights. Jesus, I had no idea the DnD brigade would scour the post for any word that could indicate wrongthink. Replace descendats with fullowers, or heirs, words which in this context mean exactly the same thing, if it makes you happy. Also yes, I do know that, and I also know you are an useful idiot carrying water for capital interests with your hare brained ideas about what constitutes workers rights. First unions were established to make hiring new people more difficult as well, so I guess you are gleeful about oppressing the unemployed by evil employed shitlords.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:35
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Salviati: PDOs should be about a particular process, set of raw inputs, and location. Simplicius: Actually, they should be about maintaining the blood of the people who invented the original foodstuff, and the connection of their blood to the land against creeping cosmopolitanism. Salviati: This would forbid immigrants from taking part in the creation of things protected by a PDO. Simplicius: I never said that! Simplicissimus: Wow, Salviati, you don't understand how the PDO system works.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:36
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Brainiac Five posted:That is not what anyone has said. What has been said is that emphasizing PDOs as being about blood is fascistic, and supposed liberals in Europe praising this kind of nationalistic nonsense instead of clamping down hard on it is a dangerous sign for Europe. By comparison, American liberals are freaked out about a cartoonish caricature of a fascist, suggesting, disturbingly, that Americans are more on the lookout for possible fascism than the people who suffered most from it. No European liberal claims that PDOs are about blood. And you said quote:while American liberals are trying with all their might to delegitimize fascism, their Euro counterparts are insisting on the greatness of fascist nationalism Pinch Me Im Meming posted:I wasn't even involved this time! But blowfish was! What's your old username? I took a glance at your post history but I'm afraid it doesn't ring too strong a bell. 
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Oct 22, 2016 18:38
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Brainiac Five posted:Salviati: PDOs should be about a particular process, set of raw inputs, and location. You are literally as dumb as a sack of bricks, and your only argumentative quality is being able to shitpost about semantics.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:38
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steinrokkan posted:What a weird projection. PDOs can be seen as a parallel to old guild systems. They rely on the collective of certified members of the trade (producers) to censure compliance with traditional guidelines. The set of skills and knowledge is not tied to a microethnicity, it's tied to the gate keeping role of the current producers who induce new members into their midst, and guarantee their abilities with their own reputation, as well as certify the quality of products made by their employees / apprentices. If somebody comes into the region and applies for / begins working in a protected business, he is part of the guild, and contributes to informing the next generation of the tradition. This is how crafts and trades have always operated, and how the protection of local brands should continue to operate. What the gently caress? That's not how PDOs work at all. A new producers only needs to abide by the rules set out by the EU with respect to the production process and location. It's simply a scheme to protect certain region from competition and the preamble of the Regulation specifically states that it's meant to protect "less-favoured or rural areas".
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Oct 22, 2016 18:40
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Brainiac Five posted:Salviati: PDOs should be about a particular process, set of raw inputs, and location. Is clenching at the most minor point of an argument taught in first year or second year at the International Business School of Rethorics?
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Oct 22, 2016 18:40
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steinrokkan posted:Jesus, I had no idea the DnD brigade would scour the post for any word that could indicate wrongthink. Replace descendats with fullowers, or heirs, words which in this context mean exactly the same thing, if it makes you happy. Also yes, I do know that, and I also know you are an useful idiot carrying water for capital interests with your hare brained ideas about what constitutes workers rights. First unions were established to make hiring new people more difficult as well, so I guess you are gleeful about oppressing the unemployed by evil employed shitlords. They don't actually mean the same thing because then they'd be the same word, ignoramus. The fact that you don't care about keeping obsession with blood purity out of your speech and thought doesn't actually validate you, or make this an example of an evil SJW coming to drag you to Room 101 and place your greatest fear, nonwhite Americans, in a room with you to torture you. Unions predate the widespread use of the limited liability corporation, dating in Europe to the 14th and 15th centuries, so you are quite wrong, as is usual.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:41
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GaussianCopula posted:What the gently caress? The production process rules are not set by the EU's faceless drones from high-up there in their Ivory tower, they look into the poo poo and listen to the people who do the poo poo, you nitwit.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:42
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YF-23 posted:Jesus dick people, feta is not fascism. Saying that PDOs are a sign that Europe is falling to the clutches of fascism while US liberalism is the brave bulwark against it is pretty much American exceptionalism, and the same kind of rabid nationalism you accuse Europe of in the same sentence.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:44
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YF-23 posted:No European liberal claims that PDOs are about blood. And you said steinrokkan posted:The idea that the descendants of the people who invented certain foods and beverages and passed the formulas from generation to generation should be able to retain control over the good name and rooted identity of their heritage is FASCISTIC and INCONVENIENT TO THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM. Now, steiny may be a fascist or just a "paleoconservative" like Riso, but Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:It's funny how they can grasp what a trademark is perfectly fine, but it absolutely breaks their minds when the owner of that trademark is not a for-profit organization and not trying to get as much money out of it as possible. It simply does not compute. This guy is assuredly a liberal and yet doesn't see any problem with this blood-obsessed attitude towards PDOs. Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Is clenching at the most minor point of an argument taught in first year or second year at the International Business School of Rethorics? Another example is this guy claiming that blood purity is this tiny little thing.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:45
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GaussianCopula posted:What the gently caress? What I mean is that the original producers apply for a protected name at the EU so they can guarantee that the people who come in and claim to be part of their trade do not lower the standards. In that way they are the gatekeepers who guarantee that newcomers do not alter quality, and that nobody can use their protected name without de facto submitting to their approval. Maybe it's a tortured analogy, but I like it  Also I assume that in the future the requirements may be altered by people petitioning the authorities, if the consensus among certified producers changes.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:45
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Brainiac Five posted:Another example is this guy claiming that blood purity is this tiny little thing. Wait did you call me a liberal?
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Oct 22, 2016 18:45
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Wait did you call me a liberal? Oh, so you're a leftist who doesn't give a poo poo about emphasizing blood and soil, or are you a rightist shitbag?
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Oct 22, 2016 18:48
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Wait did you call me a liberal? He's American, that's the best they have.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:47
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Brainiac Five posted:Now, steiny may be a fascist or just a "paleoconservative" like Riso, but You are seriously ill, seek help.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:48
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YF-23 posted:He's American, that's the best they have. The poor little thing... 
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Oct 22, 2016 18:48
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steinrokkan posted:You are seriously ill, seek help. Actually, never mind, you should have said you were chain posting in the Star Wars thread, I wouldn't have known that I needn't bother with you.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:50
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YF-23 posted:He's American, that's the best they have. I love it when Europeans, obese and bloated on the blood and sweat of the Global South, sneer about Americans to distract from their complicity in and service to evil.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:50
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Like, this is almost exactly the same poo poo as with aspirin. It's a generic name in the US, but a protected Bayer brand in Germany. Why is this so hard to grasp? That's because the US got the rights as war spoils. steinrokkan posted:Jesus, I had no idea the DnD brigade would scour the post for any word that could indicate wrongthink. You aren't even new here, how did you not know this yet?
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Oct 22, 2016 18:52
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Brainiac Five posted:I love it when Europeans, obese and bloated on the blood and sweat of the Global South, sneer about Americans to distract from their complicity in and service to evil. Are we going to hold the genocide Olympics now? Announce your change of trolling plans so we can respond accordingly tyvm.
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Oct 22, 2016 18:53
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