Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Snuffman posted:

This does not seem like a win for the little guy.

Outside of the Coast Capital propaganda of "ATMS ALL OVER CANADA!", is there any obvious benefit beyond the theoretical bigger pool of money?

It's $100K per account, right? Once every hundred grand people can open an additional account, I figure.

# ? Oct 24, 2016 22:53

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# ? May 31, 2024 19:28

Brannock: Feb 9, 2006; by exmarx; Fallen Rib

I'm kind of glad my parents are young enough that there's a good chance we figure out robot caretakers before they go decrepit.

Invest in Japanese robotics, friends.

# ? Oct 24, 2016 22:57

triplexpac: Mar 24, 2007; Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

DariusLikewise posted:

Really we should just adopt the Asian-culture custom of having your parents live in a suite in your house until they die. They have it all figured out over there.

Replace "suite in my house" with "closet in my apartment" maybe.

# ? Oct 24, 2016 23:09

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Replacing human caregivers with unfeeling plastic automatons is my favourite techbro fantasy. You think nursing homes are bad now? Lmao

# ? Oct 24, 2016 23:17

Professor Shark: May 22, 2012

I think Climate Change Refugees are more likely to be working lovely jobs for low wages than Westworld-style robots

# ? Oct 24, 2016 23:41

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

THC posted:

Replacing human caregivers with unfeeling plastic automatons is my favourite techbro fantasy. You think nursing homes are bad now? Lmao

Ironically this isn't a techbro's fantasy. It is result of pure-strain Japanese xenophobia and lack of children. If they don't build robots their nursing homes will eventually just have old people in them (though I suppose not for very long.)

I welcome my future Filipino nursing home overlords.

# ? Oct 24, 2016 23:41

Ccs: Feb 25, 2011

I want a Baymax when I get old.

# ? Oct 24, 2016 23:57

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

ocrumsprug posted:

Ironically this isn't a techbro's fantasy. It is result of pure-strain Japanese xenophobia and lack of children. If they don't build robots their nursing homes will eventually just have old people in them (though I suppose not for very long.)

I welcome my future Filipino nursing home overlords.

Many if not most American techbro fantasies are the result of their uncritical fetishization of Japanese culture, this being one of them

# ? Oct 25, 2016 00:20

Lobok: Jul 13, 2006; Say Watt?

Brannock posted:

I'm kind of glad my parents are young enough that there's a good chance we figure out robot caretakers before they go decrepit.

Invest in Japanese robotics, friends.

Oh, I'm fully invested. Invested too much into it, really. Emotionally, I mean.

# ? Oct 25, 2016 00:30

less than three: Aug 9, 2007; Fallen Rib

Snuffman posted:

Outside of the Coast Capital propaganda of "ATMS ALL OVER CANADA!", is there any obvious benefit beyond the theoretical bigger pool of money?

Are they actually saying this? They're already part of the Exchange so the ATMs are free at any Exchange ATM in Canada (And outside Canada wherever HSBC is, that's awesome.)

Unless they're planning something like how Scotiabank pulled ING (Now Tangerine) out of the Exchange when they've calculated they can make more in ATM fees.

less than three fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Oct 25, 2016

# ? Oct 25, 2016 04:11

dev286: Nov 30, 2006; Let it be all the best.

Re: pension depression

I weep at the thought that both my grandparents retired with massive municipal employee DB pensions and had gold plated health plans for their entire twilight years.
That coupled with depression era stinginess and property value increases my grandmother died with a net worth of $2.5 Millon.
Even after paying for my grandfather to live at a five star retirement home for the last 10years of his life...

There is literally no way for anyone in our generation to replicate that kind of retirement. It was a one time thing, never to be repeated.

My own mom worked for years with no pension and is now 67. She'll have to live off the equity in her home. (At least she has that!)

# ? Oct 25, 2016 04:33

Fried Watermelon: Dec 29, 2008

THC posted:

Many if not most American techbro fantasies are the result of their uncritical fetishization of Japanese culture, this being one of them

Well who's going to take care of grandpa and grandma when they are old?

Definitely not those refugees they tried so hard to keep out

# ? Oct 25, 2016 14:41

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

oh my god lmao

Vancouver Sun posted:

Young employees want the gratification of instant pay

Is the payday loan business due for disruption? A pair of Vancouver-based entrepreneurs are betting on it.

Serial entrepreneur Steve Barha has quietly rolled out Instant Financial, a payroll system that allows workers to access a portion of their pay with a smartphone app anytime they want. Or more precisely, workers can get money when they actually need it.

Meanwhile, UBC engineering student Rish Chaudhary has launched Taski, a service that allows young workers to pick up shifts whenever they need the money, without having a regular job.

What is this? Working without having a job. Getting paid whenever you want. That sensation you�re feeling is a seismic shift in the employer-employee relationship.

The world is increasingly moving in real time � what you want, when you want it � with the notable exception being payday. The money you are owed for working every day is usually locked up for at least two weeks at a time.

Millennials and service sector workers are heavy users of payday loans. More than 40 per cent of adults under 35 have taken out a payday loan, and 159,000 British Columbians took at least one such loan in 2015, according to figures released by the provincial government.

Although he is firmly in Instant�s target demographic, Kino Messiah � a cook for DeDutch Burrard Landing and a business student � wasn�t sold on the advantages of real-time pay at first.

The Instant smartphone app allows workers early access to 35 per cent of their earnings, which can be directed to a bank account or to a debit-style card. Experienced Instant users can access up to 50 per cent of their pay in advance.

�I thought having another card and another PIN was too much, but I love using my Instant card now,� he said.

Messiah estimates that he has used the advance pay feature at least 10 times over the past seven months.

�The Pay Me feature only gives you half of your pay, but that is more than enough to cover a cellphone bill or extra money at the grocery store,� he said.

But that�s not all. Instant sends a notification when workers� regular pay is deposited, and they can use the app to move money around to other accounts and use the Instant card at bank machines.

DeDutch was a beta tester in the early development of Instant, rolling the system out at its Port Coquitlam location.

President Bill Waring is convinced that payroll innovation could be a powerful employee retention tool in an industry that sometimes struggles to keep skilled staff.

DeDutch pays its kitchen staff above minimum wage and runs a tip-sharing program that tops up the peak hourly wage to about $22 an hour. But semi-monthly paydays were clearly not cutting it for DeDutch�s younger workers.

�I had asked my managers whether our workers ever wanted to draw advances on their pay and they said yes, all the time,� Waring explained. �They were also getting calls from payday loan companies confirming the details of our workers� employment.�

DeDutch employees have fully embraced the Instant Financial system.

�In the early stages, when there were still some glitches and the system went down for a couple of days, well you would have thought it was the end of the world,� Waring said. �In just a month or so, (our workers) had started to rely on Instant and they liked it.�

Waring is also pleased to do his part in putting �predatory� payday loan companies out of business.

Instant CEO Steve Barha is convinced change is long overdue.

�The last innovation in payroll was 1867, when we moved from paying employees with precious metals to cash or cheque,� he said. �Not much has changed since.�

Payday lending, administration costs and cheque cashing fees cost North Americans $100 billion a year. Add to that $100 billion in late fees and service fees when people can�t pay their bills on time, people who tend to be young and employed in the service sector.

�That $200 billion in loans and predatory fees exists because people�s pay is locked up in the disbursement system,� said Barha. �That money is being pulled out of the pockets of people who can afford it the least.�

Perhaps unsurprisingly, the opt-in rate for people under 30 is nearly 100 per cent. One-third of employees who are using Instant report that they are saving on late fees and penalties, Barha said.

�For young people it�s not even a question: �Of course, I want access to my money every day,'� he explained. �With everything else in real time, why isn�t your pay available in real time?�

Instant also enables users to build a cash flow calendar to help them plan how they will get through the month.

�We worried at first that we might create a generation of maniacs who will be at the casino after every shift,� said Barha. �What we�ve seen is the exact opposite. We heaved a big sigh of relief.�

Rather than real-time pay amplifying negative behaviour, it turned out that people really just want to buy gas and groceries and pay bills.

Rish Chaudhary founded Taski to release young workers from the bonds of the regular shift and the two-week pay period.

At its heart, Taski matches service industry businesses with a small army of potential workers. More than 1,000 have already signed on.

Companies post available shifts and �taskers� can pick the ones that suit their schedule, show up and work.

Millennials, he says, have incredibly busy lives. A lot of them will choose flexibility over higher pay.

�We see a world where workers and employers are part of fluid networks and where you can find work when you need it with your mobile,� he said.

As a young student faced with a heavy class and study schedule, Chaudhary couldn�t hold down a traditional job.

�I met this really cute girl and I wanted to impress her by taking her to a fancy restaurant, but of course I was broke,� he said. �I wondered what it would be like if I could just pick up work whenever I wanted to.�

Chaudhary, at just 19 years old, founded Taski about a year ago and joined The Next Big Thing, a startup accelerator for young entrepreneurs founded by Meredith Powell and HootSuite CEO Ryan Holmes.

Taski has recently raised pre-seed funding of $150,000 from Silicon Valley and B.C.-based investors. The plan is to raise another $5 million by the end of January.

Most of Taski�s business clients are catering and event firms that have relied on agencies to provide workers. A single event usually generates 10 to 30 shifts.

�I had worked in the hospitality industry and so I know there are always open shifts,� Chaudhary said. �There is high turnover and these places are often desperate for people.�

Clients can pick through worker profiles, see what they have done through Taski, and read reviews of past performance.

Taski charges employers a 20-per-cent premium on the hourly wage paid to its workers, so a $10-an-hour job is billed to the client at $12 an hour.

Currently, taskers are credited with their pay right after their shift, but Stripe takes several days to deposit the money.

Naturally, Chaudhary intends to move to something faster.

�We are working towards an instant pay system, and I think that will attract even more workers,� he said.

"fuuuh I can't believe i have to wait two whole weeks to be paid, this is impossible to plan for! I wish there was some way I could be paid now _{for a small fee of course}"

Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Oct 25, 2016

# ? Oct 25, 2016 19:33

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

I was dead after "disruption", "serial entrepreneur", and "seismic shift"

# ? Oct 25, 2016 19:37

peter banana: Sep 2, 2008; Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

"My workers can't make ends meet between paychecks! I should open a payday loan business!"

*whooshing sound so loud it destroys all of our eardrums and we die*

# ? Oct 25, 2016 19:38

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

that's amazing in so many ways

# ? Oct 25, 2016 20:05

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

another successful small business owner

# ? Oct 25, 2016 22:19

the last signal...: Apr 16, 2009

I don't see anything wrong with the Instant thing, unless you just wanna hate on poors who are living paycheque to paycheque.

# ? Oct 25, 2016 22:53

Agnosticnixie: Jan 6, 2015

the last signal... posted:

I don't see anything wrong with the Instant thing, unless you just wanna hate on poors who are living paycheque to paycheque.

Preying on poors living paycheque to paycheque is not, in fact, helping them.

# ? Oct 25, 2016 23:00

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

It's payday loans but they have an app. Very unlike those predatory payday lenders, which don't have an app. This is Canadian high-tech innovation.

# ? Oct 25, 2016 23:03

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

the last signal... posted:

I don't see anything wrong with the Instant thing, unless you just wanna hate on poors who are living paycheque to paycheque.

Its a system that literally preys on poor people living paycheck to paycheck set up by the employer that refuses to pay a livable wage.

# ? Oct 25, 2016 23:14

Nocturtle: Mar 17, 2007

Furnaceface posted:

Its a system that literally preys on poor people living paycheck to paycheck set up by the employer that refuses to pay a livable wage.

This system is already pretty widespread. If anything these developers should be congratulated for making it more efficient by cutting out the third party loan providers.

# ? Oct 25, 2016 23:22

Snuffman: May 21, 2004

Furnaceface posted:

Its a system that literally preys on poor people living paycheck to paycheck set up by the employer that refuses to pay a livable wage.

God drat millenials. How entitled they are, wanting things like a liveable wage, stable employment, career advancement, affordable housing or rent and enough left over to have savings and a bit of fun now and again. They should have to live their lives in abject misery serving our glorious captains of industry. :v:

# ? Oct 25, 2016 23:23

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

The boomers have literally salted the earth after reaping the greatest benefits in recorded human history.

# ? Oct 25, 2016 23:28

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

And they'll continue making GBS threads up everything for at least another two decades. :woop:

# ? Oct 25, 2016 23:29

Guest2553: Aug 3, 2012

Be the change you want to see in the world and kill an old person :kheldragar:

namaste

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:04

Lobok: Jul 13, 2006; Say Watt?

I don't want payday loan apps or any bullshit like that but getting paid sooner than every two weeks would be nice. I don't mind right now because I'm salaried but it's definitely better when you're working part-time and each week's hours are different.

Though at least we're not Ireland. Talked to a couple employees at a Superdry in Dublin and they were amazed that we got paid every two weeks. They got paid every five weeks! Credit card companies must loving love that.

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:16

the last signal...: Apr 16, 2009

It's not a payday loan app what the hell are you guys talking about. There's no fee to access your money. But yeah gently caress baby boomers gently caress any app that doesn't solve every single woe of capitalism etc etc etc

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:20

Aagar: Mar 30, 2006; E/N Gestapo
I am talking to a mod right now about getting you probated/banned/gassed

the last signal... posted:

It's not a payday loan app what the hell are you guys talking about. There's no fee to access your money. But yeah gently caress baby boomers gently caress any app that doesn't solve every single woe of capitalism etc etc etc

It says 20% premium right in the article.

Edit: Wait, it charges the employer? How does that work?

Aagar fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Oct 26, 2016

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:26

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

the last signal... posted:

It's not a payday loan app what the hell are you guys talking about. There's no fee to access your money. But yeah gently caress baby boomers gently caress any app that doesn't solve every single woe of capitalism etc etc etc

Do you work for these chucklefucks or something?

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:28

A Typical Goon: Feb 25, 2011

Guest2553 posted:

Be the change you want to see in the world and kill an old person

namaste

Elizabeth Wettlaufer is a Canadian hero :canada:

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:28

the last signal...: Apr 16, 2009

Aagar posted:

It says 20% premium right in the article.

That's for the 2nd app that acts as a staffing agency can you guys not read

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:28

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Aagar posted:

It says 20% premium right in the article.

Edit: Wait, it charges the employer? How does that work?

Different company for the 20%.

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:29

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

If there's no fees, how do they make money? I'm betting there's fees.

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:32

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Like any other company providing a benefit on behalf of an employer: the employer pays for the service.

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:32

Aagar: Mar 30, 2006; E/N Gestapo
I am talking to a mod right now about getting you probated/banned/gassed

Subjunctive posted:

Different company for the 20%.

Yeah, got confused there.

So what is Instant getting out of cash advances? They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

The last signal... Get hosed, stooge.

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:33

Snuffman: May 21, 2004

Lobok posted:

I don't want payday loan apps or any bullshit like that but getting paid sooner than every two weeks would be nice. I don't mind right now because I'm salaried but it's definitely better when you're working part-time and each week's hours are different.

Though at least we're not Ireland. Talked to a couple employees at a Superdry in Dublin and they were amazed that we got paid every two weeks. They got paid every five weeks! Credit card companies must loving love that.

In a previous life, before a major corporate buyout, I was paid weekly. It was pretty nice.

Not from a downing in debt sense, but in a seeing my bank account go up each week, kind of way. :unsmith:

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:40

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Aagar posted:

So what is Instant getting out of cash advances? They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Similarly, ADP doesn't deposit my salary out of the goodness of their hearts. And similarly, ADP doesn't charge me as the employee for receiving the money.

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:41

Sundae: Dec 1, 2005

quote:

So what is Instant getting out of cash advances? They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

The article is basically a worthless piece of poo poo. What they're doing is setting up a new payroll system with your employer where your employer makes your pay available through the system whenever you want it, up to whatever you've accrued. AKA, nothing any sane employer would ever use since it's more valuable to them have that money for other purposes for 2, 3, 5, etc weeks than it is to give you the convenience. Like most disruptive techs, there isn't actually anything innovative here. In fact, it's less useful than existing tech!

THC posted:

If there's no fees, how do they make money? I'm betting there's fees.

Pulled up their site. The employer pays for the overall service, and then there are a set of standard fees charged to the user. Inactivity charges, ATM fees, foreign charges, etc.

What I think is interesting is that the terms of service state that you cannot use any money on the account for any auto-debit purposes. No electronic debits of rent, bills, etc, making it less useful than existing bank structures and credit cards by a lot. Also, one big piece of fun for you canucks:

Terms of Service posted:

Funds loaded onto the Card are not insured by the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation (CDIC).

I see nothing wrong with that at all. :colbert:

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:42

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# ? May 31, 2024 19:28

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

you guys are missing the most obvious point: its a startup. it doesnt have to make money or have a realistic business plan.

# ? Oct 26, 2016 00:46

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