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calandryll posted:Would you rather have exciting pirate adventures or a huge rear end chapter on becoming a sex god? Yeah that was the point where I fully accepted that Rothfuss "bucks the trend" simply to be edgy and that he is in fact as awful and disgusting a person as his appearance suggests.
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Oct 20, 2016 20:24
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I'd like to imagine she read WMF and went "would be better to not write a second book at all than write something as bad as this."
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Oct 20, 2016 20:49
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PJOmega posted:I'd like to imagine she read WMF and went "would be better to not write a second book at all than write something as bad as this." WMF is a pretty compelling argument against sequels
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Oct 20, 2016 21:48
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The Name of the Wind was already a pretty good argument against sequels.
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Oct 20, 2016 22:00
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ulmont posted:Didn't see this one linked yet. Rothfuss it's not impostor syndrome if you are an actual impostor. People like you are the reason impostor syndrome exists in the first place.
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Oct 20, 2016 22:43
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Malpais Legate posted:The Name of the Wind was already a pretty good argument against sequels. Eh, NotW it is aggressively mediocre and wouldn't be anything but genre shelf padding if it wasn't for the near universal praise it received. WMF was aggressively bad.
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Oct 21, 2016 01:24
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Benson Cunningham posted:Everyone who posts here is going to read and buy the third book. Much like the stealing of aztec gold, the only catharsis remaining for us is to see this through to the end. No, I read the first one and couldn't believe people have gone on to read the second. All I know is it has sex ninjas and Kvothes sex-skill is incredibly pleasing to them, so clearly I did not miss much.
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Oct 21, 2016 01:59
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Hate Fibration posted:Rothfuss it's not impostor syndrome if you are an actual impostor. People like you are the reason impostor syndrome exists in the first place. God, this. Dude writes two books (yes, novella and blah blah whatever, he wrote two books), one arguably readable, and has pretty much been handed the world on a plate. I looked at the first page of my Kindle shelf just now: something like twelve authors, every one of them with more talent than Rothfuss has in their little typing finger, and none of them with anywhere near his sales or fame. And he acts like he earned that poo poo. Writing success is not a meritocracy. (But what do I know? I buy books from Amazon, which apparently makes me a shitfuckarooni who single-handedly closed that one airport bookstore he goes to sometimes.)
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Oct 21, 2016 03:45
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WMF was one of those rare sequels that was so aggressively bad that it hurt the book before it: things you forgave or brushed aside in the first book came front and centre in the second, and it made the stuff you were uncomfortable with that much grosser. I honestly hope that this thread reaches and hurts Rothfuss, because it should. A hack deserves to know what he did.
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Oct 21, 2016 23:35
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I think WMF is the basically the Matrix Reloaded: it is possible that a sufficiently skilled creator could turn all of those narrative promises and setups into something really effective, but there's a huge amount of anticipation, and a risk of some seriously nasty backlash if you manage to gently caress it up. I'd go listen to MBMBAM instead too, if I were up against something like that.
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Oct 22, 2016 01:44
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StonecutterJoe posted:God, this. Dude writes two books (yes, novella and blah blah whatever, he wrote two books), one arguably readable, and has pretty much been handed the world on a plate. I looked at the first page of my Kindle shelf just now: something like twelve authors, every one of them with more talent than Rothfuss has in their little typing finger, and none of them with anywhere near his sales or fame. And he acts like he earned that poo poo. Writing success is not a meritocracy. (But what do I know? I buy books from Amazon, which apparently makes me a shitfuckarooni who single-handedly closed that one airport bookstore he goes to sometimes.) He's basically a version of writers like Stephanie Meyer without the basic common sense to actually capitalize on the moment to become a worldwide phenomenon. So instead he's simply a very popular fantasy author to a lot of people who think he's great because he's better than people like Morgan Rice, even though Rothfuss can't hold a candle to someone like Robin Hobb. Rothfuss has to be one of the most overhyped authors in the world right now. Lionsgate is going to do a Kingkiller movie and/or TV show and it's probably going to be like the Seeker of Truth show only instead of being intentionally campy like Xena and Hercules it'll probably try to take itself super seriously.
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Oct 22, 2016 02:35
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trash (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 22, 2016 04:22
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ManlyGrunting posted:WMF was one of those rare sequels that was so aggressively bad that it hurt the book before it: things you forgave or brushed aside in the first book came front and centre in the second, and it made the stuff you were uncomfortable with that much grosser. I honestly hope that this thread reaches and hurts Rothfuss, because it should. A hack deserves to know what he did. THREAD STALL WARNING: Posters are advised to take no steps to ensure that this thread 'reaches' Rothfuss or 'hurts' him besides reducing income by diminishing his sales.
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Oct 23, 2016 13:01
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i actually think Wise Man's Fear is a pretty good fantasy adventure book. it has its problems, and it gives us an intriguing peek into the various sexual and political hang-ups of Patrick Rothfuss, but it's fine. it reads like young adult lit. it flows easily, there's nothing too challenging about it, the characters are charming and quotable. it's Joss Whedon as other-world fantasy. but it certainly did get popular, and that popularity has caused people to put these Rothfuss books above their station. and now it faces the classic "overrated backlash" from more discerning readers. and you know, i get where you folks are coming from. this is the world of uncritical NPR/Buzzfeed "poptimism" that we're living in. you're not supposed to argue back and forth about the merits of a story. you're supposed to find out what the new hotness is, read it, discuss what you liked about it, and then move on to the next thing. people have fallen so deeply into this cycle that they've forgotten what it means to read something that's actually amazing.
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Oct 23, 2016 18:42
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Schmischmenjamin posted:
Talk about damning with faint praise.
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Oct 23, 2016 19:01
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Also please don't fantasize some dude getting hurt because you don't like his books.
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Oct 23, 2016 19:16
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Also please don't fantasize some dude getting hurt because you don't like his books. Especially since there are so many more legitimate reasons.
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Oct 23, 2016 19:19
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Peel posted:THREAD STALL WARNING: Posters are advised to take no steps to ensure that this thread 'reaches' Rothfuss or 'hurts' him besides reducing income by diminishing his sales. As though the mind that envisioned Kvothe, the ultimate Author-Insert, could accept damning criticism of his writing. Kvothe has never been righteously criticized, all those who attempt to do so are fools, regressive, misguided or cartoonishly evil. Does anyone imagine that the author of such a stunningly on-the-nose Gary Stu is capable of accepting literary criticism when it deals with his favorite subject - essentially himself? Everything BotL wrote can be dismissed with the words "I'm popular and rich". I wouldn't waste the keystrokes sending this thread to anyone shown (by blog posts alone) to be so resolutely impervious to critique. Also, it's just rude.
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Oct 23, 2016 22:22
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I like the Matrix: Reloaded comparison. The first was OK because someone else did all the heavy lifting and the second one nose dived because the stealing hack/s believed in their own hype.
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Oct 23, 2016 22:23
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Aquarium Gravel posted:As though the mind that envisioned Kvothe, the ultimate Author-Insert, could accept damning criticism of his writing. Kvothe has never been righteously criticized, all those who attempt to do so are fools, regressive, misguided or cartoonishly evil. Does anyone imagine that the author of such a stunningly on-the-nose Gary Stu is capable of accepting literary criticism when it deals with his favorite subject - essentially himself? I think he literally said as much in an interview. His beta readers can't point out bad prose because he knows far more about sentence construction than they possibly can.
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Oct 23, 2016 22:44
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Hughlander posted:I think he literally said as much in an interview. His beta readers can't point out bad prose because he knows far more about sentence construction than they possibly can. I don't know about the interview, but with my own ears I heard him say that a beta reader messing with his prose was "a striking offense". That he slaved for hours over each sentence to get each word just right.
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Oct 24, 2016 03:46
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BananaNutkins posted:I don't know about the interview, but with my own ears I heard him say that a beta reader messing with his prose was "a striking offense". That he slaved for hours over each sentence to get each word just right. Would explain why the third book isn't out yet.
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Oct 24, 2016 04:12
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BananaNutkins posted:I don't know about the interview, but with my own ears I heard him say that a beta reader messing with his prose was "a striking offense". As in he'd strike them from his beta team? Strike them across the face? Who says this?
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Oct 24, 2016 05:08
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Naerasa posted:As in he'd strike them from his beta team? Strike them across the face? Who says this? He didn't elaborate, unfortunately. But he delivered it in a very serious tone, then moved on to the next question. It might have been "slapping" offense. It involved some form of smackery.
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Oct 24, 2016 06:39
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BananaNutkins posted:He didn't elaborate, unfortunately. But he delivered it in a very serious tone, then moved on to the next question. It might have been "slapping" offense. It involved some form of smackery. Hitting assistants is bad, Patrick
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Oct 24, 2016 08:33
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one of these days i'm going to mail rothfuss an anime body pillow stuffed with rotten eggs
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Oct 24, 2016 09:09
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BananaNutkins posted:He didn't elaborate, unfortunately. But he delivered it in a very serious tone, then moved on to the next question. It might have been "slapping" offense. It involved some form of smackery. In any case, his attitude guarantees he's only got the finest, pure-bred sycophants and rear end-kissers on his reader team, which is exactly what any decent writer doesn't want. "Oh, Patrick, your deathless prose is the finest I've ever read, nay, dreamed of! Was this feedback helpful y/n?"
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Oct 24, 2016 13:21
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Also please don't fantasize some dude getting hurt because you don't like his books. I will hunt down the badman and make him pay for his book crimes using the worst of tortures. Also, I forgot, was this brought up at all in this thread I feel a bit like BotL could have spared himself a lot of tedium, this dude a "Let's Read" too. I am not sure how good it is though.
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Oct 24, 2016 20:14
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That's one of the reasons I did the read-through in the first place. While Ronan Wills did manage to get through both books, it's still an average internet critic faux-angry outrage text. Kingkiller is incredibly dumb, but getting mad about "unlikable" characters or whatever is not really productive in the long run.
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Oct 24, 2016 20:47
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:That's one of the reasons I did the read-through in the first place. While Ronan Wills did manage to get through both books, it's still an average internet critic faux-angry outrage text. Kingkiller is incredibly dumb, but getting mad about "unlikable" characters or whatever is not really productive in the long run. That's true. Ronan sees offensive things everywhere. He stopped rereading Sanderson because there's not enough to be outraged about in there. Not that Sanderson's works are flawles (but I like them a lot), it's just that they don't contain too many things that drve SJWs crazy. He's also manifestly unfair to Robert Jordan and sees misogyny and weird sexual fetishes everywhere in the Wheel of Time books.
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Oct 25, 2016 09:46
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Torrannor posted:He's also manifestly unfair to Robert Jordan and sees misogyny and weird sexual fetishes everywhere in the Wheel of Time books. This is a can of worms because he is not expressly wrong. It's important for the context to be taken into account though. At the time it was written, including a female character who was not a sexual interest for the hero and was actually the most powerful character in the main cast was pretty unheard of in mainstream fantasy. The gender politics and the politics of gender were also pretty ground breaking for 1990. Men destined for power were cursed with physical rot and insanity. The most powerful political force was made up entirely of women and the men that did their bidding. But these women all engaged in institutionalized adolescent homosexuality or outright hated all men. The main character was such a cool dude that he had three love interests and they were all fine with the arrangement. And of course everyone liked a good spanking. The big problem is that the series stretched on over a twenty year period where a lot of strides were taken with gender equality and awareness of gender portrayal in fiction. A novel that was pretty good if not downright progressive for when it came out suddenly looks pretty sexist compared to the novels that eventually came out alongside it. It also doesn't help that Jordan wasn't great at writing women. But fortunately we still have guys like Rothfuss around to help remind us that Jordan wasn't all that bad really and we still have a long loving way to go.
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Oct 25, 2016 18:55
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Jordan wasn't a great writer of women but at least he tried. Rothfuss just writes bad anime characters and goes "IMMA FEMINISTA"
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Oct 25, 2016 19:16
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I think the key difference between Jordan and Rothfuss is that the former making honest efforts and creating a somewhat balanced cast of characters and giving his female characters some purpose other than "so-and-so's love interest", he just wasn't necessarily great at it when viewed through today's lens (as Atlas Hugged spelled out). Rothfuss, on the other hand, goes on and on and on about how progressive he is and how much a feminist he is, but that's all completely absent in his fiction and shown to be a complete fabrication in all of his "non-fiction" (quotes because his blog is full of poo poo that didn't happen).
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Oct 25, 2016 19:17
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Jordan has moments of genuine honest experience that break through into his novels, like the parts of Wheel of Time where Rand is trapped in the box being inspired by his time as a PoW. Or so I've read. Rothfuss does too, but his genuine moments are all...and then I had to scrape for change in the couch to buy ramen noodles again, but I found a twenty dollar bill in a birthday card my granny sent me last year, but I spent it on hearthstone decks, and this cute girl looked at me in the library so I talked to her about Hillary Clinton for half an hour and how I'm totally going to the rally about ????? so I spent three hours researching ???? and found out that I really support ???? and have all along. Edit: Whoa, dude! That's a nice Tak board. Edit: Buy my Tak boards.
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Oct 26, 2016 06:07
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I only ever read that Jordan did a couple of tours not that he was a POW. He would certainly have been friends with POWs though.
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Oct 26, 2016 07:26
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As someone who is a big homosexual I found the anecdotally gay characters underwhelming but apparently Rothfuss pats himself on the back for that so gently caress that guy.
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Oct 26, 2016 07:50
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There were gay characters? Who?
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Oct 26, 2016 15:08
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Solice Kirsk posted:There were gay characters? Who?
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Oct 26, 2016 15:34
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I hope not the child molesters that Kvothe had to deal with when he was a kid....
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Oct 26, 2016 15:35
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Solice Kirsk posted:There were gay characters? Who? After he first played at the Eolian, there was a pair who were sitting together upstairs. One of them hit on him. He hoped he didn't make an rear end of himself when he reacted to it. E. Also the owners of the Eolian are together.
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Oct 26, 2016 16:40
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