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WrenP-Complete posted:What do you mean "predicated on that mindset?" I dunno, like, my entire outlook on the world is filtered through my understanding of what people are like, and my understanding of what people are like is 100% based on women, because I have had absolutely no male input in my life and I don't really see any point in spending time around them. Frankly my understanding of men is basically as women with some kind of brain problem that makes them specifically nonfunctional in a bunch of areas. And that seems kind of played out in a lot of heavily male-oriented ideological positions like libertarianism, everything under the alt right banner, fascism, capitalism, some parts of socialism, everything where the bulk of the people doing the decision making are men. They all have this... kind of unpleasant disregard for the human element in their ideologies, this weird authoritarian streak that seems intent on sort of... cramming the world into a mental mold and cutting off any bits that don't fit. It's a fairly consistent lack of empathy and general lack of consideration for other people, almost not really seeing other people as being the same as yourself? I forget the word for it, but there's a thing where some people have this really distinct line between themselves and others, and can't really make the two meet on an instinctive level. Like, you and I look at another person and see a reflection of ourselves, what hurts that person we feel and empathize with, whereas some people look at other people and see something that isn't really... alive, almost. Like they don't identify with other people, they don't internalize the experience of others. It shows up in libertarianism where they get so weirdly dispassionate about the ramifications of their ideology when society as a whole is taken into account, you get this constant sense that they're really only interested in either the abstract idea, because it satisfies some personal sense of aesthetics, or they're only interested in what they, personally, will be able to do if that ideology was dominant. In either case the person is, to my mind, abnormally self absorbed, and cut off from other people. It of course also shows up in ideologies which are hellbent on "otherizing" groups of people as the cause of all the evil in the world, especially those that try to paint the "others" as inherently evil, or hosed up, like it's a moral failing rather than a failing of environment. Those are all pretty masculine traits to my mind, the closed-off-ness, the self centeredness, the trend towards trying to control and force things to obey your idea of how things should be. Not to say that all men have them, but they definitely seem to be traits which are masculine, what you would probably lump under "toxic masculinity" from a feminist perspective. That might be erroneous pattern recognition but the more I'm exposed to conflicting ideologies, the stronger this trend is jumping out to me. So basically I attribute my instinctive dislike of ideologies like that to my female-dominated upbringing and socializing, I can't imagine how someone who was exposed to the things I was exposed to as a kid can really fall into that kind of thinking. Other than I suppose if they completely ignored their environment growing up. But conversely, I wonder how people who didn't have my experience and were raised in a very masculine-dominated environment look at the world. I look at people who buy fully into these toxicly masculine ideologies and can't help but wonder what parts of their mind are missing. Are they like this because they just didn't have the opportunity to learn all the interpersonal abilities that give you a barrier against those ideologies, by providing constant feedback that this isn't how the world works. I dunno, the difference between the sexes when it comes to how they interact with people is sort of a constant presence in my life and has only become more pronounced as I've gotten older. It's hard not to look at the world through that lens. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 20:02
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I think there's a little irony in saying a large group of people lack empathy and boiling it down to them being literally mentally handicapped by their socialization. It seems fairly easy to explain disparate results of gender socialization. In a patriarchal society, the perspective of men is the default in every type of media, history, science, etc. (though of course the social sciences in particular are making some strides). It's rare, then, for someone to grow up with truly no exposure to masculine perspectives. But this is not so hard the other way around, especially since femininity is so hated. Additionally, whereas stereotype threat and the like can harm girls' achievement in mixed-gender environments (and thus a segregated one can benefit them), for boys coed environments are almost all upside.
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Oct 26, 2016 21:20
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I was cleaning out email and someone had sent me this from September: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/21/pickup-artists-on-trial-for-rape-ring.html?via=newsletter&source=DDAfternoon (CN: Rape) WrenP-Complete fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 21:24
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QuarkJets posted:Libertarianism is heavily into homesteading and Star Trek has tons of homesteading episodes. The show sometimes even portrays the dislocation of indigenous people in a positive light, or at worst a morally gray light, which aligns well with the libertarian notion that you can take land that you feel is not being properly utilized by the ignorant former inhabitants And people that bash trekkies are every bit as pretentious as their subjects of ridicule, and even more intellectually lazy. There isn't a deep explanation for why some libertarians like Star Trek. You're giving these people too much credit for thinking. Libertarians can like Star Trek because it never made its economy or social structure a major focus of the plot except that one episode in that one season that sucked and nobody watched. Just like warp drive and transporters were never explained, they just worked, the economy and life in the federation was the same way. How often did you even see a part of Earth in an episode other than some Starfleet building? Almost never. If Star Trek had been an Ian Banks novel on TV or something, with a deep explanation of how poo poo worked, right-wingers would probably hate the show a lot more. Well, really the show probably wouldn't have been made.
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Oct 26, 2016 22:25
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Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:Conservatives use "cuck", liberals use "bigot." I say let them have their labels. "politically correct" is the conservative word for "problematic" "entitlement" is the conservative word for "privilege"
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Oct 26, 2016 22:39
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Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:Conservatives use "cuck", liberals use "bigot." I say let them have their labels. Lmao what
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Oct 26, 2016 22:42
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Lmao what Both sides are bad, truth is in the middle, fart.
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Oct 27, 2016 02:00
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The Whole Internet posted:And people that bash trekkies are every bit as pretentious as their subjects of ridicule, and even more intellectually lazy. Star Trek is a show with racist caricatures and ham-fisted social commentary. Pointing that out is neither pretentious nor "intellectually lazy" (lol did you intend for that to be super ironic?)
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Oct 27, 2016 03:36
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OwlFancier posted:But conversely, I wonder how people who didn't have my experience and were raised in a very masculine-dominated environment look at the world. I look at people who buy fully into these toxicly masculine ideologies and can't help but wonder what parts of their mind are missing. Are they like this because they just didn't have the opportunity to learn all the interpersonal abilities that give you a barrier against those ideologies, by providing constant feedback that this isn't how the world works. You'll find that in autistic children there is actually a surplus of neurons in the mirror neuron system which... wash out the signal? "Confound" is a pretty good catch-all word. It's been quite a while since I've studied this now and I may be misremembering details The Whole Internet posted:And people that bash trekkies are every bit as pretentious as their subjects of ridicule, and even more intellectually lazy. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3787185 QuarkJets posted:Star Trek is a show with racist caricatures and ham-fisted social commentary. Pointing that out is neither pretentious nor "intellectually lazy" (lol did you intend for that to be super ironic?) but what if everyone was gay?
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Oct 27, 2016 03:37
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Mornacale posted:MRAs know about condoms, but watch out: women will poke holes in them if you're not looking. And make sure you flush it down the toilet after use, because they're also fond of digging the used condom out of the trash to steal your sperm. Actually, maybe you just shouldn't orgasm at all: not only do you decrease pregnancy worries, but you can psychologically abuse your partners! If these fears are true, surely the most effective defense is to only have sex with people who can be trusted: other men.
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Oct 27, 2016 04:06
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VitalSigns posted:If these fears are true, surely the most effective defense is to only have sex with people who can be trusted: other men. Yeah, but then you have to keep track of who has who's power inside of them so one of you doesn't become too powerful.
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Oct 27, 2016 04:31
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Who will be the Great Britian of gay sex?
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Oct 27, 2016 04:33
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Who What Now posted:Yeah, but then you have to keep track of who has who's power inside of them so one of you doesn't become too powerful. I think it only appropriate to bring up the retrograde-ejaculation element of TobleroneTriangular's legendary gimmick at this point.
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Oct 27, 2016 04:40
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Captain_Maclaine posted:I think it only appropriate to bring up the retrograde-ejaculation element of TobleroneTriangular's legendary gimmick at this point. Wasn't that part of the title of the thread about him? "Conserve your seed, battle the Amero" or something like that.
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Oct 27, 2016 04:49
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CharlestheHammer posted:Who will be the Great Britian of gay sex? Who said anything about pulling out? 
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Oct 27, 2016 05:00
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Anil Dasharez0ne posted:Wasn't that part of the title of the thread about him? "Conserve your seed, battle the Amero" or something like that. That was almost exactly one of his Helldump thread titles, yes.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:47
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VitalSigns posted:If these fears are true, surely the most effective defense is to only have sex with people who can be trusted: other men. But then you run into the fact that men are the people who actually poke holes in condoms (because safe sex isn't suitably reassuring to some dudes' masculinity).
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Oct 27, 2016 17:13
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Mmm yeah i can't get it up unless I'm infecting myself with chlamydia.
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Oct 27, 2016 17:23
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OwlFancier posted:Mmm yeah i can't get it up unless I'm infecting myself with chlamydia. Oh yeah, poz my neg-hole, daddy! 💦💦💦
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Oct 27, 2016 17:26
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QuarkJets posted:Star Trek is a show with racist caricatures and ham-fisted social commentary. Pointing that out is neither pretentious nor "intellectually lazy" (lol did you intend for that to be super ironic?) Though, to be fair, it was damned progressive for its time.
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Oct 27, 2016 19:07
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Dirk the Average posted:Though, to be fair, it was damned progressive for its time. Yeah, for sure! I'm pretty sure TNG was the first show on television to show someone having a sexual relationship with a ghost who lives in a candle. They were really pushing the boundaries Joking aside, it was entertaining television that broke a lot of the standard rules, definitely for better
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Oct 27, 2016 20:43
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Yeah, like Abraham Lincoln
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Oct 28, 2016 00:18
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QuarkJets posted:Yeah, for sure! I'm pretty sure TNG was the first show on television to show someone having a sexual relationship with a ghost who lives in a candle. They were really pushing the boundaries OK come on it had that gender-hating planet with the cisgendered minority. Although I'm not sure what lesson to take from that because their conversion therapy was 100% successful and the misfit lady went on to lead a happy life of gender and sexual conformity so 
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Oct 28, 2016 04:23
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VitalSigns posted:OK come on it had that gender-hating planet with the cisgendered minority. For that episode the actor who played Riker was apparently "please cast a dude, I will totally make out with a "genderless" dude on television, LET'S DO THIS" but the producers were too chickenshit to go through with it, so they cast a woman instead because they wanted to make sure that the audience wouldn't get confused and think that Riker is gay.
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Oct 28, 2016 06:45
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QuarkJets posted:For that episode the actor who played Riker was apparently "please cast a dude, I will totally make out with a "genderless" dude on television, LET'S DO THIS" but the producers were too chickenshit to go through with it, so they cast a woman instead because they wanted to make sure that the audience wouldn't get confused and think that Riker is gay. Say what you will about Gene Roddenberry, a man who (among other things) was known as a notorious horndog and kept wanting to make a movie where Spock was the second gunman, but at least he had the fortitude to insist on those kinds of views. The latter eta Star Trek shows (and movies) were way more producer-driven than writer-driven, and it shows.
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Oct 28, 2016 12:08
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mojo1701a posted:Say what you will about Gene Roddenberry, a man who (among other things) was known as a notorious horndog and kept wanting to make a movie where Spock was the second gunman, but at least he had the fortitude to insist on those kinds of views. george takei has mentioned a few times in interviews and whatnot about how he approached g-rod about including homosexual acceptance into the original series and how he admitted to wanting to but that they were barely allowed to broadcast wrt the racial stuff as it was which he understood
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Oct 28, 2016 18:38
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  Pretty sure public sanitation and vaccination have saved more lives than capitalism, but feel free to keep defending the guy who's literally killing people by overcharging for life-saving drugs. (Also lol Martin Shrekli thinks social democracy is communism rather than capitalism with a strong welfare state stapled on.) Curvature of Earth fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 03:09
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I love how socialism has warped from "the workers own the means of production" to "taxation and government exists" among the right and libertarians.
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Oct 31, 2016 04:55
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VitalSigns posted:OK come on it had that gender-hating planet with the cisgendered minority. Well, keep in mind, the people who said their conversion therapy was successful were the same people who insisted on doing it. I wouldn't consider them trustworthy on the subject.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:27
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Baronjutter posted:I love how socialism has warped from "the workers own the means of production" to "taxation and government exists" among the right and libertarians. It's not even that defined. "Socialism" is just what they reflexively label anything that impaired their ability to do whatever it is they want at all times.
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Oct 31, 2016 13:57
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Apologies that this is the only upload of this clip I can find https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5P-Z5Szqj0
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Oct 31, 2016 14:32
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Curvature of Earth posted:
people know Martin Shrekli isn't a biomedical researcher, right?
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Oct 31, 2016 16:35
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PupsOfWar posted:people know Martin Shrekli isn't a biomedical researcher, right? He's rich, what does it matter? It's not like his wealth is based on charging massively inflated prices for drugs that other people found and brought to market or somethi... 
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Nov 1, 2016 01:00
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Star Trek (TOS): Pretty racist and homophobic, but back in it's day it was hella better than anything else being made (also I watched so much as a child with my Dad and I love it). Also, Nichelle Nichols sneakily became the first woman to show her navel on television. Martin Shrekli: Literally got rich by raising the price of needed medication, and probably has killed some people because of that price increase. Who the gently caress defends someone like that? Who the gently caress follows him on Twitter? Is it "ironic" or some special hate-filled demographic?
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Nov 1, 2016 04:49
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:Martin Shrekli: Literally got rich by raising the price of needed medication, and probably has killed some people because of that price increase. Who the gently caress defends someone like that? Who the gently caress follows him on Twitter? Is it "ironic" or some special hate-filled demographic? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right ?
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Nov 1, 2016 05:00
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Well, keep in mind, the people who said their conversion therapy was successful were the same people who insisted on doing it. I wouldn't consider them trustworthy on the subject. She confirms it works when Riker tries to kidnap her from the conversion facility and take her back to the Enterprise and she's all  "nah this treatment is totally great I don't even remember why I was after your gross alien male dick in the first place, I really was hosed up and sick I'm glad to be normal again." "Come on, maybe we can find a way to reverse it!" "Ew no thanks see ya"
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Nov 1, 2016 05:44
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:Star Trek (TOS): Pretty racist and homophobic, but back in it's day it was hella better than anything else being made (also I watched so much as a child with my Dad and I love it). Also, Nichelle Nichols sneakily became the first woman to show her navel on television. Agreed But that's not the weird thing about Star Trek. The weird thing about Star Trek is that it was resurrected in the 90s and was still racist, homophobic, and sexist.
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Nov 1, 2016 06:38
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Oh yeah 
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Nov 1, 2016 15:43
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QuarkJets posted:Agreed Don't you be poo poo talking Janeway 
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Nov 1, 2016 16:35
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QuarkJets posted:Agreed Which is, as always, why DS9 was the best because it admitted and explored the fact that the veneer of a united and progressive humanity is just a story the Federation tells itself to feel better about all the crooked imperialistic bullshit that it does in reality.
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