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I said come in! posted:Actually it was more like 6 months or so, but this isn't really spelled out anywhere in the film itself. Wait. So Han and Leia were in Cloud City for six months?!
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Oct 27, 2016 15:02
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RBA Starblade posted:Joseph Campbell probably had them first. And Joseph Campbell was just ripping his thoughts off from Freud and Carl Jung. How deep does this rabbit hole go? UmOk posted:Wait. So Han and Leia were in Cloud City for six months?! No, they were flying there in the Falcon for six months, banging each other.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:03
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UmOk posted:Wait. So Han and Leia were in Cloud City for six months?! I think the thing I've seen is that they traveled to Cloud City at slow speed and it took months to get there. Of course none of that is in the movie.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:03
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UmOk posted:Wait. So Han and Leia were in Cloud City for six months?! No, they were traveling through space for most of that time, I don't think they were at Cloud City for that long. The Millennium Falcon didn't have its hyper drive working.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:06
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Cnut the Great posted:No, they were flying there in the Falcon for six months, banging each other. Who's they? There are a number of people on board that ship and at least three of them are capable of getting horny.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:08
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I said come in! posted:Who's they? There are a number of people on board that ship and at least three of them are capable of getting horny. We already know Threepio was interfacing with the Falcon, so that's one horny couple accounted for. Han and Leia were clearly getting it on. That just leaves Chewbacca and, I don't know, the training remote? I'm sure he could figure out a few things to do with that.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:17
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I said come in! posted:No, they were traveling through space for most of that time, I don't think they were at Cloud City for that long. The Millennium Falcon didn't have its hyper drive working. So Vader was waiting for them for six months?
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Oct 27, 2016 15:18
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I do not believe Leia and Han were having sex with each other, but one of those two was absolutely having sex during their travels.UmOk posted:So Vader was waiting for them for six months? They were at least hunting them for six months. Remember Bobba Fett was tracking them during that time too.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:19
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UmOk posted:So Vader was waiting for them for six months? Presumably he was off doing Vader business. He only came to Cloud City once Lando told him they were there.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:19
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Basebf555 posted:Presumably he was off doing Vader business. He only came to Cloud City once Lando told him they were there. I'm so confused. Didn't Lando say that Vader showed up right before they arrived?
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Oct 27, 2016 15:23
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UmOk posted:I'm so confused. Didn't Lando say that Vader showed up right before they arrived? Could be, either way the point is that Vader only went there once he knew they were there. Its not like he was hanging out in the janitors closet waiting for six months. Now that you say that, I'm remembering that it was probably Bob Fett who tracked them there and informed Vader. Regardless, Vader wasn't just sitting around waiting.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:25
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Yeah, Boba Fett tracked them to Cloud City. Then he either told Vader and Vader waited until the Falcon was about to get there, or he didn't figure it out until they were close.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:26
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UmOk posted:So Vader was waiting for them for six months? I think the official answer is that it was more like several weeks to a month, not six months. And Lando says the Empire arrived just before they did, which kind of makes you wonder what they were doing up to then, and why they didn't just intercept the Rebels in their ship before they got to Bespin. The real answer is that the passage of time was left intentionally vague in the film so that none of these things would have to be explained.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:28
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Vader and the Emperor must have saw through the force that they could use Han and Leia as bait to attract Luke to them. They used that as the basis for their setup at Cloud City.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:31
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I said come in! posted:I do not believe Leia and Han were having sex with each other, but one of those two was absolutely having sex during their travels. Well, they already made out, which according to Kershner is the Star Wars equivalent to intercourse. I think that ship sailed. Of course, this also means that, in Star Wars terms, Luke really did bang his sister. I said come in! posted:Vader and the Emperor must have saw through the force that they could use Han and Leia as bait to attract Luke to them. They used that as the basis for their setup at Cloud City. Well yeah, but they could have done that just by snatching them up while they were puttering through space and then taking them to Cloud City at lightspeed to torture them and attract Luke. It would have sped up the whole process. And speaking of Vader's plan to use them as bait, it takes on whole new level of hosed up when you realize that Vader is drawing on his own experience with sensing his mother's pain as she was being tortured by the Tuskens.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:36
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I said come in! posted:Actually it was more like 6 months or so, but this isn't really spelled out anywhere in the film itself. I always assumed that because Dagobah was a mystical place, time worked a bit differently there. A week in the gritty reality of Cloud City is months in the hazy time of magical training. Luke could have been there years, for all was know. Time doesn't matter so much in a place like that. Regardless of how long he spent, it wouldn't have been enough, and he would never have been ready when his friends were in trouble.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:39
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Toph Bei Fong posted:I always assumed that because Dagobah was a mystical place, time worked a bit differently there. The Hyperbolic Time Chamber of planets.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:41
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I said come in! posted:There actually hasn't been an original thought on the prequels in the Star Wars threads in quite sometime. It's all been just repeating things already talked about and going full circle once a week. Over the course of a few threads, we've accomplished a rather comprehensive analysis of all six films, and the Disney spinoff. The 'problem' is that this analysis has gone completely unchallenged. The last person to even try was the 'millenial pragmatic idealism' dude, and I forget how long ago that was.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:56
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https://youtu.be/YYcdrZfKU3E A very serious video about the Rogue One characters.
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Oct 27, 2016 16:01
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Cnut the Great posted:Well, they already made out, which according to Kershner is the Star Wars equivalent to intercourse. I think that ship sailed. So since Luke did commit symbolic incest, is he symbolically Arthur and Kyle Ren his symbolic Mordred? I mean, he is living on an island off the coast of the British Isles. In which case Rey is returning the Sword in the Stone to him.
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Oct 27, 2016 16:06
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Brainiac Five posted:So since Luke did commit symbolic incest, is he symbolically Arthur and Kyle Ren his symbolic Mordred? I mean, he is living on an island off the coast of the British Isles. In which case Rey is returning the Sword in the Stone to him. That is a good way of looking at it.
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Oct 27, 2016 16:33
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In the same way, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme and Sheev can be thematically linked with Arthur, Lancelot, Guinevere and Morgana. The plot twist is that Arthur succumbs to Morgana's temptation, kills his wife in a fit of jealous rage over perceived infidelity, then becomes the Black Knight.
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Oct 27, 2016 17:09
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Here's another cool quote from Joseph Campbell from the Power of Myth program he did with Bill Moyers back in 1988:JOSEPH CAMPBELL posted:Heaven and hell are within us, and all the gods are within us. This is the great realization of the Upanishads of India, already in the ninth century B.C. All the gods, all the heavens, all the worlds are within us. They are magnified dreams, and what dreams are, are manifestations in image form of the energies of the body in conflict with each other. And that’s all myth is. Myth is a manifestation in symbolic images, metaphorical images, of the energies within us, moved by the organs of the body, in conflict with each other. This organ wants this, this organ wants this: the brain is one of the organs. He's basically describing the idea behind midi-chlorians. In fact Lucas puts it in very similar terms: George Lucas posted:Now in this particular case, the gods happen to be a life-form that allows a cell to divide. So it's a metaphor: that which brings life. I don't want to get too controversial about this – some people believe it happened in other ways, over seven days, but if you listen to biology, there's another theory, which begins with an e. If you study microbiology, you will come to the realization that this alien life-form, which has a completely different DNA, helped create life on earth and within the galaxy. But every cell has one of these life-forms in it. It's a simplified version of relationships – that symbiotic being goes through everything. That's why Han Solo joins the Rebellion, that's why Luke saves his father. In Star Wars land, all these relationships are necessary to bring forth a greater good – and evil. Basically, the internal workings of the body as metaphor for a larger spiritual truth. Midi-chlorians are a convenient and easily manageable way of expressing that idea. All life is symbiosis and cooperation, on the scale of a galactic civilization all the way down to the cellular level. And life started on the cellular level, so why wouldn't that be the place where God makes his mind known? The idea is that we got it all wrong: Prometheus wasn't a Titan--he was a Prokaryote. The fire stolen from the gods is actually nothing less than the respiration-derived energy which exists inside our cells, fatefully gifted to us by a lone bacterium billions of years ago in act of benevolent symbiosis. I honestly feel kind of bad for people who don't think it's a cool idea.
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Oct 27, 2016 17:14
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Brainiac Five posted:So since Luke did commit symbolic incest, is he symbolically Arthur and Kyle Ren his symbolic Mordred? I mean, he is living on an island off the coast of the British Isles. In which case Rey is returning the Sword in the Stone to him. Well yeah The Force Awakens very consciously draws on Arthurian legend. As lots of people have pointed out Maz Kanata is an obvious analogue of the Lady of the Lake who gives King Arthur his sword. Of course all the movies draw on Arthurian legend to a degree. Luke has a lot in common with Percival in particular. He's a rustic country bumpkin who one day stumbles on the revelation that he's actually of noble birth, trains under a wizened mentor in order to become a knight, then goes on a quest to achieve a symbolic grace which he then uses to heal his maimed father. In keeping with the Joseph Campbell theme, it's worth noting that Parzival is among the works of literature he values most, and he considers it to be the turning point in the Western literary tradition in terms of our ongoing cultural quest for spiritual illumination. The essay I linked is a really good read, by the way.
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Oct 27, 2016 17:30
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The interesting thing with the Arthurian elements is that it syncs very well with the feudal elements, and we even have a Nimue figure to replace the Merlin Yoda. But it also posits an interesting approach to Rey's connection with Luke. Arthur, apart from in early Welsh stories where Mordred isn't his son, is infertile/impotent/chaste (depending on the particular attitude of the author). So Rey presumably would be his descendant indirectly, like Arthur's nephew Constantine who succeeds him and kills Mordred's sons.
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Oct 27, 2016 17:38
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Well this loops around to why does Rey gotta be related to anybody
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Oct 27, 2016 17:43
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Cnut the Great posted:Well yeah The Force Awakens very consciously draws on Arthurian legend. As lots of people have pointed out Maz Kanata is an obvious analogue of the Lady of the Lake who gives King Arthur his sword. I think Episode 8 will also draw heavily on the Grail Quest as well, with Luke/Finn as Fisher King with Rey as Galahad. Or maybe Bors de Ganis.
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Oct 27, 2016 17:45
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Phi230 posted:Well this loops around to why does Rey gotta be related to anybody Why did Luke have to be related to anybody? Arrrrgggggg. loving ESB retroactively ruined A New Hope(The last good Star Wars movie)
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Oct 27, 2016 17:48
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Oh just gently caress off
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Oct 27, 2016 17:50
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The 'problem' is that this analysis has gone completely unchallenged. Your analysis of TFA was challenged a few times. You just kind of ignored their arguments and accused people disagreeing with you of not agreeing with it because it wasn't stated in the movie.
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Oct 27, 2016 17:51
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Phi230 posted:Oh just gently caress off Follow your own advice.
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Oct 27, 2016 17:52
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Phi230 posted:Well this loops around to why does Rey gotta be related to anybody How else is it supposed to be like poetry?
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Oct 27, 2016 17:55
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My fav poetry is def jam and terza rima
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Oct 27, 2016 17:55
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Cnut the Great posted:The idea is that we got it all wrong: Prometheus wasn't a Titan--he was a Prokaryote. 
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Oct 27, 2016 17:58
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Brainiac Five posted:The interesting thing with the Arthurian elements is that it syncs very well with the feudal elements, and we even have a Nimue figure to replace the Merlin Yoda. But it also posits an interesting approach to Rey's connection with Luke. Arthur, apart from in early Welsh stories where Mordred isn't his son, is infertile/impotent/chaste (depending on the particular attitude of the author). So Rey presumably would be his descendant indirectly, like Arthur's nephew Constantine who succeeds him and kills Mordred's sons. My question is what Anakin's lightsaber is supposed to be representing in TFA. I mean it was discarded in ESB and replaced in ROTJ because it was a false symbol that had been holding Luke back. Luke's construction of his own lightsaber is a symbolic act showing that he's become his own man and no longer has any need for the simplistic, childish image he had of his father. So if he does anything other than refuse to accept it from Rey at the beginning of Episode VIII I'll be very confused. It may have been redeemed from its formerly cursed state (having tasted the blood of innocents) along with Anakin himself, but it still doesn't belong to him.
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Oct 27, 2016 17:59
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It would be pretty weird to emphasize Rey being special by birth and her family's absence and then have them be unimportant. From a, you know, storytelling mechanics perspective.
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Oct 27, 2016 18:00
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Yup. Brainiac Five posted:It would be pretty weird to emphasize Rey being special by birth and her family's absence and then have them be unimportant. From a, you know, storytelling mechanics perspective. Yeah some people seem to be missing that this was blatantly set up as one of the movie's main questions of interest. Admittedly it is kind of baffling because if she turns out to be related to Luke everyone will just go, "Yeah, no poo poo" and if she turns out to be related to pretty much anyone else other than, like, Palpatine, everyone will just go "And this is important because....?" Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Oct 27, 2016 |
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Oct 27, 2016 18:01
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Cnut the Great posted:My question is what Anakin's lightsaber is supposed to be representing in TFA. I mean it was discarded in ESB and replaced in ROTJ because it was a false symbol that had been holding Luke back. Luke's construction of his own lightsaber is a symbolic act showing that he's become his own man and no longer has any need for the simplistic, childish image he had of his father. So if he does anything other than refuse to accept it from Rey at the beginning of Episode VIII I'll be very confused. It may have been redeemed from its formerly cursed state (having tasted the blood of innocents) along with Anakin himself, but it still doesn't belong to him. It's an interesting inversion of the Sword in the Stone, which Arthur lost due to his unrighteous acts and had to replace with the pagan Excalibur, but here the sword itself is the unrighteous thing. I do think Luke will/should reject it.
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Oct 27, 2016 18:02
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ungulateman posted:In the same way, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme and Sheev can be thematically linked with Arthur, Lancelot, Guinevere and Morgana. The plot twist is that Arthur succumbs to Morgana's temptation, kills his wife in a fit of jealous rage over perceived infidelity, then becomes the Black Knight. I'm never gonna be able to unhear "its but a flesh wound" instead of "I hate you!" once Anakin loses his appendages on Mustafar. Luke best be turnin' that saber down, otherwise he forgot what he learned in RotJ.
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Oct 27, 2016 18:31
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Phi230 posted:Oh just gently caress off Good argument. But why is it OK for Empire and Jedi to change previous movies?
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Oct 27, 2016 18:32
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