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I don't think the gap between Korea can be closed. I blame Solo Q. Koreans take that poo poo seriously, everyone else doesn't. I'm not sure how much practice is actually put in Solo Q for teams, but whatever it is Koreans will always get substantially more mileage out of it. Even if the other regions do everything else like the Koreans, they can't change that.
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Oct 27, 2016 19:47
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Firebert posted:tbh the primary reason why there is parity in Dota is because Koreans don't give a poo poo about the game Pretty sure there is parity because teams from all over the world play each other at lans regularly then just 1 or 2 lans a year. Safety Scissors posted:I don't think the gap between Korea can be closed. I blame Solo Q. Koreans take that poo poo seriously, everyone else doesn't. I'm not sure how much practice is actually put in Solo Q for teams, but whatever it is Koreans will always get substantially more mileage out of it. Even if the other regions do everything else like the Koreans, they can't change that. China takes their pubs seriously in Dota 2 as well while the rest of the world doesn't give a poo poo most of the time. Although the strongest teams in Dota 2 has people play pubs constantly.
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Oct 27, 2016 19:54
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I think the pro's in-house league was sort of a solution to that but it creates a bit more of a gap between pros and solo q players. It's s shame that something like an ihl never took off, in DotA it's where a lot of NA players got their starts
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Oct 27, 2016 19:58
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kingcobweb posted:It was pretty telling how H2K could have twice as many kills and still be behind because they were just running around solo queue style as SSG were getting objectives every time H2K made a play this is what really made me realise how hosed the west is. jankos was like 10/1 on loving olaf and they still couldn't do anything cause samsung just absolutely rinsed them so hard on macro it was unreal
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Oct 27, 2016 20:04
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Quickshot/Jatt/Kobe to cast the finals ... yay ...
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Oct 27, 2016 20:25
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In Korea if you dominate the ladder and become #1 you're seen as one of the greats. Faker, Apdo, Marin, and Smeb. Solo queue is used as a recruiting tool and it's how players like Faker initially got picked up. In NA if you get #1 on the ladder you're still just goldenglue, whose an underwhelming challenger player. I really don't think that has much to do with why other regions are behind though. H2K had all the talent to take a game or two off a Korean team but poor pick/ban phases and bad shotcalling crippled them, it's not like you can learn that in solo queue. I'm still committed that if they'd put Ryu on Vladimir or another tanky mage middle, they could have negated his poor play a bit better than sticking him on a #1 rotation priority Ryze. I believe it all comes down to coaching staff. How well a team practices pick/bans, how well their shot-calling is in-game, how well their macro is, etc. I promise you if Kkoma came to NA and his only 5 players were Jensen, Xmithie, Hauntzer, Altec, and Bunnyfufu he could end up with the strongest non-Korean team in the world because he'd make them practice efficiently and play to his players strengths. Just how well CLG can do on their good days show that you can go miles with average players as long as your macro is good. Firebert posted:If CLG beat actual good Korean teams like SKT and Rox Tigers, they could probably beat a bad team like Jin Air I think some Koreans that came back from China recently said the only thing that holds back China as a region is discipline. Most of the Koreans go over and only have to try a tenth as hard as they did in Korea and are pampered like superstars so they become complacent, and coaches are so lax over there, even the Korean coaches. If I'm not mistaken, a lot of players over there are required to stream x amount of hours too which makes it seem more like a super-star region trying to capitalize on player popularity rather than creating teams that can win world's. Most teams are owned by sons of billionaires that are doing e-sports as a hobby, so they have very little to lose/gain in terms of international competitions. Who can blame them, most of the Koreans that came over initially that are still there are making more in Chinese challenger series than they made winning championships in Korea.
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Oct 27, 2016 20:29
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Luna Was Here posted:I think the pro's in-house league was sort of a solution to that but it creates a bit more of a gap between pros and solo q players. It's s shame that something like an ihl never took off, in DotA it's where a lot of NA players got their starts the big issue is that ultimately, teams don't care. the vast majority of major org challenger teams have been vanity projects for friends of pros or cast-off first-teamers, which means the entire (na) progression system is "hope you're friends with someone who comes through and then you'll get a chance in a team environment and learn a poo poo-ton in no time and stay up there". you either have to be playing with pros/ex-pros IN A TEAM ENVIRONMENT or have an actually good coach to get better at the things that separate a solo queue player from a pro, and the latter very sparingly exists in the challenger scene for obvious reasons. which is why all the criticism of the solo queue environment is off-base - yeah, there's stuff that's not ideal, but any pro who seriously thinks that's the problem won't be in the scene for long anyway.
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Oct 27, 2016 20:36
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I don't follow LCS too closely, could someone explain real quick why Rush and Bunny didn't pan out?
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Oct 27, 2016 20:39
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the c9 challenger team they've got going this time around may or may not end up being one of the better ones in this regard btw, inexperienced players and an inexperienced coach but the sub support who's contracted to c9 has hai-level potential as a shotcaller to the point where i think he may single-handedly bash that group into something at least TLA-level long-term.
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Oct 27, 2016 20:40
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kingcobweb posted:I don't follow LCS too closely, could someone explain real quick why Rush and Bunny didn't pan out? After that rule change, Cloud9 decided to stick with Impact on their main roster because of the gap that Balls created between him and other top laners, and put Rush on their challenger team. Rush decided that he'd take the season off and go back to Korea, with the intention of getting scouted by a potential Korean team. Bunnyfufu was fine, and there wasn't a whole lot of discernible difference between he and Smoothie but I think Bunny felt like the rotating supports were becoming scape-goats for all of C9's losses because anytime C9 would lose a game, they'd just swap supports regardless of how well one or the other were performing. He took the season off for the same reason Rush did, to potentially get picked up by a different team.
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Oct 27, 2016 20:52
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Chris de Sperg posted:the c9 challenger team they've got going this time around may or may not end up being one of the better ones in this regard btw, inexperienced players and an inexperienced coach but the sub support who's contracted to c9 has hai-level potential as a shotcaller to the point where i think he may single-handedly bash that group into something at least TLA-level long-term. wow, Hai level potential/?????
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Oct 27, 2016 21:11
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Chris de Sperg posted:the c9 challenger team they've got going this time around may or may not end up being one of the better ones in this regard btw, inexperienced players and an inexperienced coach but the sub support who's contracted to c9 has hai-level potential as a shotcaller to the point where i think he may single-handedly bash that group into something at least TLA-level long-term.
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Oct 27, 2016 21:21
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rabidsquid posted:wow, Hai level potential/?????
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Oct 27, 2016 21:21
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In house leagues would actually do wonders for league of Legends too. Instead of solo queue it's like a better version of team ranked. 10 people sign up, the game is created and then the two captains choose their teams.
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Oct 27, 2016 22:48
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Holy poo poo that's amazing.
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Oct 28, 2016 06:42
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At this point the big problem isn't mechanical skill, it's coaching. We aren't usually seeing western players get crushed in lane any more or mechanically outplayed, they're making bad Baron calls, or loving up drafts, or getting out-rotated, or failing to maintain sidewaves when starting fights. None of those are really what soloqueue's for. Basically RealFoxy posted:I believe it all comes down to coaching staff. How well a team practices pick/bans, how well their shot-calling is in-game, how well their macro is, etc. I promise you if Kkoma came to NA and his only 5 players were Jensen, Xmithie, Hauntzer, Altec, and Bunnyfufu he could end up with the strongest non-Korean team in the world because he'd make them practice efficiently and play to his players strengths. Just how well CLG can do on their good days show that you can go miles with average players as long as your macro is good. But I skimmed the post and missed that until after I hit submit
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Oct 28, 2016 06:54
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There's not any one thing that non-Korean regions can change and be immediately competitive. Reapered couldn't make Clown 9 not Clown 9. They basically have to become Korea, in terms of player pool, mindset, social factors, infra, solo queue, ping, esports tradition, everything. I doubt it's going to happen, if the gap closes it's going to be from Korea getting worse.
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Oct 28, 2016 12:32
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 Yessssssssssssssssss
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Oct 28, 2016 13:48
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i really hope it isn't 10 bans before first pick
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Oct 28, 2016 14:21
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While I hope it's captain mode, I'll even take 10 bans before first pick. I just hope teams use them to curate team comps rather than just banning power picks everywhere
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Oct 28, 2016 14:27
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I would love a 30 ban meta.
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Oct 28, 2016 14:47
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Radical posted:i really hope it isn't 10 bans before first pick I'm hoping they'll do DotA 2-style P/Bs. 10 bans before picks would be kinda awful.
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Oct 28, 2016 15:00
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http://www.theplayerstribune.com/faker-league-of-legends-worlds-unkillable/ e: All this attention and calling Rox-SKT the best League series of all time really sets up nicely for a Samsung upset. Sexpansion fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 15:06
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quote:Twenty years from now I’m sure esports will grow in ways we can’t even imagine, with more players, more viewers and bigger arenas all over the world. Who knows, maybe an American team will have finally won worlds by then? 
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Oct 28, 2016 15:17
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It is disappointing that even our best players are imports for the most part. I just don't understand how our solo queue is that borked.
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Oct 28, 2016 15:21
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it's because NA has a significantly lower server population than every other major region
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Oct 28, 2016 15:23
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this isnt really a league thing, its an "every esport that isn't a console game" thing when it comes to NA
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Oct 28, 2016 15:26
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rabidsquid posted:it's because NA has a significantly lower server population than every other major region Yep.
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Oct 28, 2016 15:32
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rabidsquid posted:it's because NA has a significantly lower server population than every other major region Barely over half of KR's server population iirc
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Oct 28, 2016 16:10
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I dunno about total population but I recall the ranked population being something like 1,5M for NA and close to 3M for Korea.
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Oct 28, 2016 16:27
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NA is the smallest? In terms of just ranked players? I would imagine there are a poo poo load of folks playing the game in NA at any given time
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Oct 28, 2016 17:33
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Servaetes posted:NA is the smallest? In terms of just ranked players? I would imagine there are a poo poo load of folks playing the game in NA at any given time Way more in Korea and EUW and China (which is even split into multiple servers).
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Oct 28, 2016 17:33
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na has 1.9 million ranked accounts, euw has 3.1 million (and a couple million more on eune/tr/ru combined), kr has 3.3 million with far fewer smurfs than the western servers, no number on china but it's probably into seven digits between all the servers. na is barely bigger than eune, let alone the other major regions
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Oct 28, 2016 17:36
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It's larger than EUNE I guess
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Oct 28, 2016 17:37
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Hm, makes sense then. But yeah NA also doesn't take the very high up solo queue seriously at all, which has been a problem forever and I don't see that changing. Everyone wants to be the next twitch streamer and for good reason considering how much money it rakes in.
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Oct 28, 2016 17:36
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Hey is it time for finals predictions yet? Because here's mine: Samsung comes out swinging and plays better than they ever have but, in the end, Faker and Bang are too good. 3-2 SKT.
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Oct 28, 2016 17:39
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It's time for Ambition to get his revenge. In the fifth and final game Ambition locks in Khazix and pentakills SKT to claim the summoners cup.
Savage Cracker fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 17:42
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I'm predicting with my heart. 3-1 SSG. I feel the Bungmentum.
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Oct 28, 2016 17:41
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I still believe in Albus Nox.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:10
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SSG has faced nothing but skels for the entire tournament SKT is going to body those fools 3-0 maybe 3-1 if if SKT drafts something like Temo or Malphite for Faker in game 3
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Oct 28, 2016 18:22
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