Dark Souls III: The Ringed City DLC - We just can't stop talking about DS2

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Dark Souls III: The Ringed City DLC - We just can't stop talking about DS2

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Sard: May 11, 2012; Certified Poster of Culture.

People also dismiss medium shields because they don't parry like smalls or laugh off attacks like greats, but I find they go perfectly with heavy weapons. My strength/vitality character rocks a generic greataxe and the black knight shield, and getting hits in is as easy as raising to block just as they swing and then lower immediately after to hit them back; most players are used to the pace of swing-roll-swing-roll and don't react well to being punished immediately.

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

How do you use them/catch dodge rolls? Is there a good place to go for nitty gritty info like that?

Catching dodge rolls is otherwise down to not using lockon and swinging where you anticipate they'll be; it's obviously much easier to do with the wide swinging big swords.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 22:53

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 10:46

Genocyber: Jun 4, 2012

Nuebot posted:

Also this is from like a page back, but this is something people who do dark souls PVP and think they're good at it have been missing since the first game. I've never had much difficulty using great swords and ultra greatswords in PVP compared to other weapons, you just have to use them differently than when you're in PVE because most people will gently caress you up if you try to hit them with one big slow swing. A lot of people just seem too dumb to try that so they dismiss the whole weapon branch.

I mean they are kind of objectively worse than the other weapon classes. Especially now that greatswords have both poise (2handed) and quick attacks (1handed). Granted if you're only using what's objectively the best, especially in duels, you're kind of missing the point since the PVP in these games is not competitive. But aside from Yhorm's Great Machete's ridiculous reach, the stupidly long rolling poke some ultra greatswords have, and the Great/Large club horizontal r2, they're just kind of garbage if you're fighting someone who's not poo poo, double so if they're using a quick weapon.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:00

Fereydun: May 9, 2008

they nerfed ugs from objectively the best to objectively the worst by making the golf swing not readily available alongside reducing the amount of areas where you'd be able to use it

i mean they did that in ds2 sotfs too but thats just another reason why that version is also objectively the worst

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:05

Nuebot: Feb 18, 2013; The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

How do you use them/catch dodge rolls? Is there a good place to go for nitty gritty info like that?

Part of it is relying on their massive damage for instant kill parries and backstabs. But even if you don't want to do that, anticipating where they'll roll to and being ready with a slash can ruin a dude's day or pre-emptively swinging when they go to attack. You've got range and damage to make up for your slow speed so you've just got to work on predicting where and when your opponent is going to be vulnerable. Baiting dudes works a lot of the time in the majority of my experience, just attack once and when they rush in to attack you, bring up that second hit rather than dodgerolling away like most people will and they usually fall for it and eat a sword to the face.

The hardest part is getting over the instinct to just roll and not let your armor tank through weaker hits.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:16

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

How do you use them/catch dodge rolls? Is there a good place to go for nitty gritty info like that?

I am not sure about videos. I could show you if you are ps4 maybe. I recommend just dueling high level heavies and watch what they do

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:20

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Your Computer posted:

Also is there a single female character in any Souls game that isn't people's waifu? I guess at least this one appears to care for your character.

Ebrietas is forever my souls waifu and it's a pity she doesn't have a covenant

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:21

SHY NUDIST GRRL: Feb 15, 2011; Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

I'm on pc. Yeah I'll just have to get a feel for the tools on my jank tank paladin. Wether it's better to bait with or into miracles, does the earth seeker wa have a use ever

Is it possible to run after and get a guy dodging back? Or will attack recovery make that unpunishable

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:22

MarshyMcFly: Aug 16, 2012

So this happened the other night. I was getting connection errors after my first death during 3v3 team battles so I decided to try and not die an entire match and it actually worked! The result was pretty hilarious too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUery3YAuss

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:24

Red Mundus: Oct 22, 2010

The big thing about pvp with big weapons is that you need to be a bit more aggressive than usual. People will either treat you like a big lumbering ox to be avoided or an easy target. Both require some changes in how you approach pvp but the concept is still similar regardless.

Honestly, the big problem with big weapons is pve where certain enemies will just poo poo all over you in large part due to poise and fast attack animations\combos. Pve really needs a look over.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:28

RabidWeasel: Aug 4, 2007; Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

Fereydun posted:

it actually got nerfed which is even funnier
great chaos fb used to cost 25FP instead of 32
though 7fp seems like only a slight nerf, it actually translates to way, way more casts. like 2-5 more casts depending on how large your FP bar is so imagine the comedy there for fireball chuckers

I remember that nerf which I also seem to recall was accompanied by a reduction to the cost of other pyromancies because GCFB spam was kind of objectively best but I did have a vague feeling that there was a general buff at some point prior to that.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:30

Nuebot: Feb 18, 2013; The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

I'm on pc. Yeah I'll just have to get a feel for the tools on my jank tank paladin. Wether it's better to bait with or into miracles, does the earth seeker wa have a use ever

Is it possible to run after and get a guy dodging back? Or will attack recovery make that unpunishable

If someone's dodging like an rear end in a top hat you might as well just wait for them to come to you. I find it means they don't want to fight you at that spot for whatever reason and want to try and lure you to somewhere where they'll have an advantage. Or they want to heal.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:32

Tarezax: Sep 12, 2009; MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT

I've actually gotten some reasonable success twohanding an ultra greatsword in the left hand and switching to righthanded straight sword to fake people out in PvP.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:44

Jordbo: Mar 5, 2013

Slow weapons can be great in PvP, but they lack a consistent counter to "reactive" opponents in duels. Good opponents will just safely roll through your slow attacks, and even if you mix up your timing they dodge on reaction and punish you when your poise frames end. Then if you try to play "reactively" instead and try baiting your opponent into trading hits, it's pretty much a gamble since they can hit you before your poise frames even start if you react to late.

That said, big weapons are great against multiple opponents. I'm having so much fun with the Carthus Curved Greatsword - it's got the same poise properties as ultra greatswords, low stamina usage, good reach, good sweeping slashes and really good running attacks. The fact that it's easily parriable just means you're forced to play unpredictably!

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:48

Fire Barrel: Mar 28, 2010

Genocyber posted:

I mean they are kind of objectively worse than the other weapon classes. Especially now that greatswords have both poise (2handed) and quick attacks (1handed). Granted if you're only using what's objectively the best, especially in duels, you're kind of missing the point since the PVP in these games is not competitive. But aside from Yhorm's Great Machete's ridiculous reach, the stupidly long rolling poke some ultra greatswords have, and the Great/Large club horizontal r2, they're just kind of garbage if you're fighting someone who's not poo poo, double so if they're using a quick weapon.

Big weapons are a nightmare when they come in packs though. Three players spamming those are only easily countered by magic, especially when they clump up. On their own, GS and UGS are dangerous if you're too aggressive cause certain moves track real well and can punish over-commitment to a move nicely as a result.

But yeah, these games are still more about PvE than PvE, so really you can play around with lots of stuff even in DS3. Never really gravitated to pure magic or faith builds, but even casting can be good fun.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 00:08

Insurrectionist: May 21, 2007

Fereydun posted:

it actually got nerfed which is even funnier
great chaos fb used to cost 25FP instead of 32
though 7fp seems like only a slight nerf, it actually translates to way, way more casts. like 2-5 more casts depending on how large your FP bar is so imagine the comedy there for fireball chuckers

pyro is the only viable magic style that works across the whole game because you get all the good poo poo for it really early so the progression is both steady and fast + the inherent speed on it and weakness enemies have to fire makes it mega fuckin good for most enemies

it's also not boring because it's way easier to be effective with hybrid builds using pyro vs. sorc and miracles due to that progression chain.

even later than that you get the black flame spells and those are just a nice icing on top for funtimes alongside the short-range gimmick spells like fire whip and surge (though surge is mostly a pvp deal)

the only thing i really dislike about ds3 pyro is that firestorm is boring and wack now instead of a hilarious setup spell that does obscene damage on large enemies

edit:
oh also profaned flame not being as cool as ds2 one and no lingering flame
also no more fire snake

Yeah Sorceries might get powerful once you get your soft-capped Int and all the gear you need and whatnot, but it's pretty poo poo for like half of a NG playthrough. And Miracles...well, I guess the weapon-buffs are okay, and it makes Irithyl Dungeon easy with heals. Let's not talk about other stuff. But Pyromancy is just ridiculous if you know to get access to GCFB early, and still really good from the start even if you're using the 'default' spell. I mean Pyromancer effectively starts with 28 stat-points in Pyro scaling, about twice as much as you can get for Miracles and Sorceries.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 00:08

Genocyber: Jun 4, 2012

Fereydun posted:

they nerfed ugs from objectively the best to objectively the worst by making the golf swing not readily available alongside reducing the amount of areas where you'd be able to use it

i mean they did that in ds2 sotfs too but thats just another reason why that version is also objectively the worst

Ultra greatswords got nerfed prior to the SotFS patch, IIRC.

Red Mundus posted:

The big thing about pvp with big weapons is that you need to be a bit more aggressive than usual. People will either treat you like a big lumbering ox to be avoided or an easy target. Both require some changes in how you approach pvp but the concept is still similar regardless.

Honestly, the big problem with big weapons is pve where certain enemies will just poo poo all over you in large part due to poise and fast attack animations\combos. Pve really needs a look over.

Uh, not really. Heavy weapons are loving great. It's rare there's an attack you can't poise through, you can stunlock more enemies than you can with smaller weapons since you can stun more in a single hit, and the charge attacks poo poo out damage which means if you can get the jump on an enemy you can take them out in one shot, or a large amount of their HP if they're a beefier target. Heavy weapons are loving great in PVE, it's PVP where they're worse than faster ones.

Insurrectionist posted:

Yeah Sorceries might get powerful once you get your soft-capped Int and all the gear you need and whatnot, but it's pretty poo poo for like half of a NG playthrough. And Miracles...well, I guess the weapon-buffs are okay, and it makes Irithyl Dungeon easy with heals. Let's not talk about other stuff. But Pyromancy is just ridiculous if you know to get access to GCFB early, and still really good from the start even if you're using the 'default' spell. I mean Pyromancer effectively starts with 28 stat-points in Pyro scaling, about twice as much as you can get for Miracles and Sorceries.

No, sorceries are pretty drat good right from the get go. Takes 1-2 heavy soul arrows to take out weaker enemies, and 3-4 for larger ones, as long as you keep your catalyst upgraded. Bosses that aren't magic resistance (i.e. most) go down super fast, though it sucks that two that do (Crystal Sage and the Deacons) occur so early. They're a right pain in the rear end to kill since your spells do basically no damage.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 00:39

Your Computer: Oct 3, 2008; Grimey Drawer

You know who I want to meet in the next DLC? Flame God Flann.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:01

SHY NUDIST GRRL: Feb 15, 2011; Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

I guess way of white corona is just broken? Doesn't seem to hit players on the way back. Not that it's actually possible to try to set up a bit stun on the back to open them up. So the spell is comically useless and also broken to be even worse than that.

What the gently caress

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:20

Manatee Cannon: Aug 26, 2010

Genocyber posted:

No, sorceries are pretty drat good right from the get go. Takes 1-2 heavy soul arrows to take out weaker enemies, and 3-4 for larger ones, as long as you keep your catalyst upgraded. Bosses that aren't magic resistance (i.e. most) go down super fast, though it sucks that two that do (Crystal Sage and the Deacons) occur so early. They're a right pain in the rear end to kill since your spells do basically no damage.

I did a sorcerer build for my first run, and the way I see it is that sorcery is amazing at first, drops off a cliff for a little while, then levels out as good once you've got the build set up

it does take more effort to set up than just hitting things with a sword tho

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:23

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

https://youtu.be/aSUEWp7bJjI

Gotta try this before they patch it out

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:25

Nuebot: Feb 18, 2013; The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

I'm enjoying Sacred Flame a bunch. Just punching a dude and exploding their guts is fun. Also invader AI is proving to be great as most of them have just been rolling off edges of their own volition lately.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:26

Your Computer: Oct 3, 2008; Grimey Drawer

skasion posted:

https://youtu.be/aSUEWp7bJjI

Gotta try this before they patch it out

That's not what I expected :laffo:

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:28

Azuth0667: Sep 20, 2011; By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.

Genocyber posted:

I mean, it doesn't look like anyone is trapped in Ariandel. Everyone seems to be there willingly so it's probably not hard to leave. They probably even have their own exit which is presumably how Gael got out.

The painter girl's name is not given. Elfriede is Friede. She just changed her named slightly after leaving the Sable Church.

Well if Ariandel is indicative of anything it looks like one's own blood would be used.

That seems fairly likely since he is stated to to be the "restorer" of the Painted World in the Rose's description. I figure he came across the painting, decaying but still largely intact, and restored it with his own blood.

Since the painter girl needs the flame for inspiration, I figure she's going to be painting an entirely new world. Ariandel only has similarities to Ariamis because it is just a restored version of it.

Eh, it feels pretty drat segregated to me. Aside from the brief mention of the Painted World in the Corvian gear, the Painted World has almost no presence in DS3. It feels like the only reason the DLC was about it was because it was important in DS1, like a lot of things in the DS3 base game, actually. There's a fair amount of entirely new lore stuff and locales introduced in the DS3 base game (Carthus, Londor, the Deep, Courland) that would have been way more interesting to have DLC about. Presumably the second DLC will be more about Londor/maybe even the Deep but the first could have been about one of those lands instead. Having a desert area (Carthus) in a Souls game would be cool and novel, and if they really wanted a Sable Church sister they could have her as a corrupter of Wolnir, the one that caused him to fall to the abyss in the first place. I'd also love to learn more about Courland since it's a land famous for the transposing of Souls, as well as what Ludleth's deal is. But nope, they just retread stuff from DS1 for the nth-teen time. Compare that to all of the DS2 DLC packs which are entirely new areas, have strong connection to the base game's lore, and unique gimmicks that spruce up the level design.

I disagree strongly. Parrying is of equal important in all the games save for Bloodborne which has it be a bit more of a core mechanic. Like, parrying in DS1 is even less useful than it is in the other games because it's simply not as good as other options. Rather than risk taking damage from a failed parry you're better off just stacking poise and spamming through whatever comes your way, or blocking anything with a shield since those are stupidly powerful in that game. Parrying is still stupidly strong but it's not as surefire an option as those things. Compared to DS2/3 where parrying is just as strong as ever but poise-tanking and blocking with your shield are much less effective. It's still worse than just spamming with a straight sword but then they even include a fair amount of enemy types who are tanky enough to make parrying wanted (Cathedral Knights, for example).

The stupidly strong nature of rolls in this does not make fighting more complex. If someone is determined not to die, and it's a 1v1, then good luck ever hitting them. If they have enough stamina and the bloodring it's basically impossible except by sheer luck or that person loving up.

And saying nothing is broken in that arena video is dumb. Yes, there clearly is. All you gotta do is win once, run away, and you've automatically one in a 2-player brawl. It's easy to criticize the other players as being bad (tbf they kind of are) but even if you fought him it's unlikely you'd be able to win, again because of how broken dodge rolls are in this. Rolls of course have always been overpowered, they just combine in an extra nasty way with the mechanics of the 2-player brawl.

Are you forgetting DS1? Parrying was the main way to kill Gwynn.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:29

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Your Computer posted:

You know who I want to meet in the next DLC? Flame God Flann.

I would love if the last dlc was just going to where all the last gods and goddesses hosed off to and finishing them off

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:32

MarshyMcFly: Aug 16, 2012

Holy poo poo the undead arena seems to be really buggy right now because I keep on getting connection errors like all the time now. Is anyone else experiencing this?

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:36

SHY NUDIST GRRL: Feb 15, 2011; Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

No arena is treating me well. Hell even the players are fun to fight.

Mel Mudkiper posted:

I would love if the last dlc was just going to where all the last gods and goddesses hosed off to and finishing them off

That is kind of where the story/theme is leading to. I came bury Gwyn not to praise him. Even the bird says "hey we know when it's going unlike you goofsters out there"

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:40

Azuth0667: Sep 20, 2011; By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.

MarshyMcFly posted:

Holy poo poo the undead arena seems to be really buggy right now because I keep on getting connection errors like all the time now. Is anyone else experiencing this?

Yes it randomly disconnects me from it and half the time I queue in to an empty arena.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:45

SHY NUDIST GRRL: Feb 15, 2011; Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

God drat this earth seeker build is fun

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:53

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

MarshyMcFly posted:

Holy poo poo the undead arena seems to be really buggy right now because I keep on getting connection errors like all the time now. Is anyone else experiencing this?

It's all the servers. Fight Club pvp is also laggy

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:00

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Your Computer posted:

Pre-emptive "Maneater Mildred" reply.

Look at you thinking people don't wanna gently caress the smelly swamp cannibal.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:00

SHY NUDIST GRRL: Feb 15, 2011; Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

God drat the wolf area is so bad. Also I queued up an action and it just plain didn't happen and then I died for it. Twice. Man gently caress getting the spear.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:05

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

God drat the wolf area is so bad. Also I queued up an action and it just plain didn't happen and then I died for it. Twice. Man gently caress getting the spear.

What is the wolf area?

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:07

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

This entire DLC is the loving wolf area.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:10

hard counter: Jan 2, 2015

Internet Kraken posted:

Look at you thinking people don't wanna gently caress the smelly swamp cannibal.

lost sinner is nobody's waifu

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:36

Your Computer: Oct 3, 2008; Grimey Drawer

hard counter posted:

lost sinner is nobody's waifu

Yeah she's a bit of a downer. Stop feeling sorry for yourself already, ugghhh. I get it, you sinned. We all do :rolleye:

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:40

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

hard counter posted:

lost sinner is nobody's waifu

Speak for yourself buddy

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:41

Genocyber: Jun 4, 2012

hard counter posted:

lost sinner is nobody's waifu

Bondage, insects, multiple participants; what's not to love?

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:43

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

I have done many fight clubs. This was the first time I went to one with a hype man.

There was a phantom just running around throwing gems and shooting fireballs into the air before every fight

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:45

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Mel Mudkiper posted:

I have done many fight clubs. This was the first time I went to one with a hype man.

There was a phantom just running around throwing gems and shooting fireballs into the air before every fight

Well poo poo, now I am going to be disappointed in the future forever.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:52

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 10:46

big trivia FAIL: May 9, 2003; "Jorge wants to be hardcore,
but his mom won't let him"

I'm doing the DL on my lvl50 with a Raw +7 dragonslayer axe. Champion Gravetender is the hardest thing in the game so far. It's his dire wolf. :-(.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 03:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Dark Souls III: The Ringed City DLC - We just can't stop talking about DS2

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