terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

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Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

leftist heap posted:

angular 1 was so incredibly bad in a totally pernicious way. it inherently lends itself to unmaintainable trash. gently caress me i'm so glad i don't do any webdev anymore.

Why exactly? as someone who just learned some of it, it seems a lot better than the last js framework Ive used (backbone). Before that Ive only used jquery

Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Oct 28, 2016

# ? Oct 28, 2016 22:43

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# ? Jun 13, 2024 05:48

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Elias_Maluco posted:

Why exactly? Has someone who just learned some of it, it seems a lot better than the last js framework Ive used (backbone). Before that Ive only used jquery

I was not impressed with backbone, to say the least. Angular being better than backbone may be true, because of how runny the diarrhea dog turd of backbone is.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 23:15

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

The Amiga system devices are software engines that provide access to the Amiga hardware. Through these devices, a programmer can operate a modem, spin a disk drive motor, time an event, speak to a user and blast a trumpet sound in beautiful, living stereo. Yet, for all that variety, the programmer uses each device in the same basic manner.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 00:21

Quebec Bagnet: Apr 28, 2009; mess with the honk
you get the bonk; Lipstick Apathy

code:

doot(doot);

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:20

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Smoking weed all weekend to forget my job, lol.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:22

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

quote:

AOT limitations in JDK 9

* AOT initial release in JDK 9 is only supported on 64-bit Linux systems running 64-bit Java.
* The system should have installed libelf to allow generation of AOT shared libraries (.so) as result of AOT compilation.
* AOT compilation should be executed on the same system or a system with the same configuration on which AOT code will be used by Java application.
* For the initial release in JDK 9 the only supported module for AOT compilation will be java.base.
* Only G1 and Parallel GC are supported now.
* May not compile java code which uses dynamically generated classes and bytecode (lambda expressions, invoke dynamic).
* The same Java run-time configuration should be used during AOT compilation and execution. For example, the jaotc tool should be run with Parallel GC (using the -J flag) if an application will also use Parallel GC with AOT code.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:33

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

http://blog.robertelder.org/switch-statements-statement-expressions/

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:41

JewKiller 3000: Nov 28, 2006; by Lowtax

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

Smoking weed all weekend to forget my job, lol.

hell yeah you got some weed :420:

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:46

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

Smoking weed all weekend to forget my job, lol.

same but just for fun

# ? Oct 29, 2016 01:54

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

Elias_Maluco posted:

Why exactly? as someone who just learned some of it, it seems a lot better than the last js framework Ive used (backbone). Before that Ive only used jquery

i haven't used backbone a lot, but from what i know it's not really comparable. and also anything looks good compared to jquery diarrhea.

angular 1 basically failed at everything it tried. p much every piece was half baked, overly complicated, dumb, slow, etc. routing, directives, templates, services, DI, etc. every piece had huge flaws and shortcomings. i'm sure it's better now but man, at least as of 1.2/1.3 it was super rough. routing was stupidly half baked, directives were obtuse and a big plate of edge cases. built in directives weren't consistent and frequently lacking in pretty basic poo poo. it was just not a useful model for building and maintain a remotely big app.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:04

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

angular is the most insane framework i've ever tried using

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:38

Flat Daddy: Dec 3, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

angular is the most insane framework i've ever tried using

# ? Oct 29, 2016 02:46

Flat Daddy: Dec 3, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

I defend a lot of web things but I'll never defend angular 1.x. I've used it for a couple years on multiple projects and it really never gets better and never makes sense. at the very best, with extreme discipline and good practices across your team, an angular 1.x app might approach the readability as any old react app you could fart out with no effort. but no one really codes angular well, so it's all trash

# ? Oct 29, 2016 03:01

geeves: Sep 16, 2004

VOTE YES ON 69 posted:

print line debugging is an art, and the hallmark of an excellent programmer who needs no fancy tools to aid them

I must be goddamn Picasso given how many times I've filled the server because of my incessant debugging via log messages.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 03:20

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

my absolute favorite printf debugging differential is when multiple threads are printing the same mmeessaaggee aanndd eevvrryytthhiinngg iiss rreeppeeaatteedd

# ? Oct 29, 2016 03:24

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

JawnV6 posted:

my absolute favorite printf debugging differential is when multiple threads are printing the same mmeessaaggee aanndd eevvrryytthhiinngg iiss rreeppeeaatteedd

same but multiple threads across multiple hosts catd together into a single file

# ? Oct 29, 2016 03:26

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

the thing is for the stuff i write, often where I put a printf in, i'll need it again as a log from when it shat itself in production

i did use a debugger a heck of a lot when it was glued to the editor enviroment though, but then again i was digging through millions of lines of code in third party pieces

if you need to wade through foreign code then debuggers are great, but if it's code you're writing, a printf will probably do 90% unless you're in some sort of hellish problem you've made for yourself, in which case do whatever

# ? Oct 29, 2016 04:04

Hunter2 Thompson: Feb 3, 2005; Ramrod XTreme

I was printf debugging an linux init bug related to mounting the root filesystem a few days ago. There were a few debug messages that would never appear in the log, even though there was no conditional logic that would prevent the messages from getting printed. Even lines immediately before and after this one call would get printed.

I'm embarrassed because it was obvious, but it took me about an hour to realize that the function I was debugging had the effect of moving the mount point of the root file system but the /dev/ filesystem hadn't been moved to the new / yet. No /dev/ means no system logging :doh:

I fprintf'd the missing messages into a char array and printed them later, once /dev/ was back.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 04:34

Mao Zedong Thot: Oct 16, 2008

JawnV6 posted:

my absolute favorite printf debugging differential is when multiple threads are printing the same mmeessaaggee aanndd eevvrryytthhiinngg iiss rreeppeeaatteedd

If when faced with a problem you think: I know! I'll use threads! two now problems Congrats have yo,u.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 04:36

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

my favorite printf thing is apparently my Atari cross-compiler trying to print uint32_ts in little-endian order on a big-endian machine

# ? Oct 29, 2016 05:27

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

eschaton posted:

does it involve twiddling UART registers directly?

because if so there's probably also a driver you could use in just a couple lines, but Amiga devs are constitutionally incapable of using OS APIs for anything at all, and pass that on to those they teach to develop on the Amiga

(in case you ever wondered why there were so few models of Amiga ever designed or why there wasn't more software available that worked across the product line)

yes everyone says to toss the OS in the garbage and write everything in finely tuned ASM directly for the custom hardware

i watched the first few parts of that video tutorial and can make a line bounce up and down using the copper lol

Amiga forums also seem to be superior assholes who blow up at people for asking about IDEs (pay $80 for GoldEd in 2016!!!) or why people would buy a $5000 computer running AmigaOS 4 where the Atari forums are chill and pirate everything since nobody's given a poo poo since 1993

# ? Oct 29, 2016 05:40

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Luigi Thirty posted:

no, setting up the driver and stuff as opposed to throwing bytes at a ROM routine

http://amigadev.elowar.com/read/ADCD_2.1/Devices_Manual_guide/node0192.html

ugh that and the next page are painful, DoIO and CMD_WRITE wtf is this poo poo

at least I/O on the Mac and Lisa was directly analogous to UNIX open/close/read/write/ioctl, just using a parameter block instead of an argument list (easy enough to wrap) and allowing for async I/O with a completion function pointer

# ? Oct 29, 2016 06:40

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

VOTE YES ON 69 posted:

http://programming.witheve.com/

lmao

every goddamn time someone reinvents programming starting with the premise "programming is so GOSH DARN COMPLICATED! why dont we make it NOT SO GOSH DARN COMPLICATED!" you know its gonna be great

this looks a lot like Smalltalk designed by people who have once seen but never actually learned or used Smalltalk, or Lisp, or Self

ancient Lisp people initially tried to do OOP via "everything is a property list" aka "frames" and there are good reasons they soon came up with different and more detailed underlying abstractions like Flavors and CLOS

ancient Smalltalk did exactly the same loving thing in the 1970s before they settled on class-based dispatch with Smalltalk-76, both for performance and for managing abstraction

Self brought back the "prototypes-everywhere" idea but added a ton of underlying optimization to ensure it was practical

# ? Oct 29, 2016 06:53

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

NihilCredo posted:

Literate programming is invariably bullshit, but I can totally get on board with the idea of an IDE that allows comments to be something more than just differently-coloured text. I don't see why it can't be done with a real language instead of their special snowflake poo poo, though.

QKS SmalltalkAgents on the Mac did this in the early 1990s, it was awesome

you could use "standard Smalltalk comments" in straight double quotes, or you could use �curly quotes� and use whatever font, size, style, color you wanted as well as images right inline in your code

they also supported both 'regular Smalltalk strings' in straight single quotes and �styled strings� in curly single quotes with exactly the same set of features, including inline images

# ? Oct 29, 2016 06:58

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

Luigi Thirty posted:

blast a trumpet sound in beautiful, living stereo

you are now required to implement skull trumpet on the amiga

# ? Oct 29, 2016 07:00

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Finster Dexter posted:

I'm surprised that Visual Studio hasn't enabled richtext comments wrapped in /**/ with lovely Word html or something. Seems like something MS would do.

I'm especially surprised Visual Studio doesn't do this given that Bill Parkhurst was responsible for it

NEXTSTEP supported flat out putting source code in RTF files, the standard makefiles for InterfaceBuilder and then ProjectBuilder just had rules to run anything in the Sources collection matching *.*.rtf through a plaintext conversion before passing them on to whatever other rules applie

# ? Oct 29, 2016 07:04

Su-Su-Sudoko: Oct 25, 2007; what stands in the way becomes the way

Arcsech posted:

Also I haven't read it in depth but it looks like it has a database engine built in, which immediately makes me think of mumps

it's apparently based on datalog?

# ? Oct 29, 2016 08:25

Powerful Two-Hander: Mar 10, 2004; Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.

i am fed up with our offshore devs poo poo and am going to carry out my threat of creating some basic c# coding standars doc however due to being a)lazy and b) terrible myself i reckon I'd be better off pinching one from somewhere to start with. is there a decent list of antipatterns i can use to create a 'don't do this' list?

either that or i try to get budget for a pile of resharper licenses

# ? Oct 29, 2016 09:06

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

a coding standards guide doesn't really work imo

resharper licenses pay for themselves really quickly i'd imagine and a company would have to be ridiculous not to shell out for it for a C# codebase

make warnings error in your CI build and maybe put some other code analysis that errors

the next thing you can do is point to some book like clean code which is fine for an imperative C# OOP style of coding. it is my belief that an imperative OOP style of coding results in unmaintainable applications and a "big ball of mud", but at least it's better than nothing.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 09:27

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

also your organization has already made a really cynical bet trying to replace you with an incompetent offshore development team at some indeterminate time in the future and wants you to replace yourself.

it's best to take it as it is and not get worked up about it.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 09:30

Powerful Two-Hander: Mar 10, 2004; Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.

comedyblissoption posted:

also your organization has already made a really cynical bet trying to replace you with an incompetent offshore development team at some indeterminate time in the future and wants you to replace yourself.

it's best to take it as it is and not get worked up about it.

dehumanise and face to offshoring i guess

actually pretty much everyone knows that offshore is costing us money and is at best about 60% as efficient as onshore, but the entire company is completely paralysed by its obsession with budgets so therefore we carry on

i mean, i am not even on paper supposed to be a developer in the first place, im supposed to be an analyst/project manager but i hate project management and i am a better programmer than half our devs so now i do all three. there is genuinely a problem at the moment because 3 projects think i am supposed to be a key part of their plans but this would mean that i was 150% allocated which the budget system can't handle.

my manager is like "to be honest i don't really care what you work on as long as you're getting something done. p.s. you have been logged as an official key person risk to the organisation"

anyway, i'll investigate some resharper licenses. also getting CI builds set up again after the one guy that could do NANT left and they all broke.

Powerful Two-Hander fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Oct 29, 2016

# ? Oct 29, 2016 09:47

Powerful Two-Hander: Mar 10, 2004; Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.

also i would contend that offshore analysts are even loving worse than offshore developers.

there's some joke here like "how many offshore analysts does it take to change a lightbulb"; one to talk to the lightbulb users, a second to write the requirements, a third to talk to a different team that they heard used lightbulbs as well, a fourth to replace the second when they quit because they can get 2% more money elsewhere, a fifth to replace the 4th guy who never actually turned up on his first day, a 6th to write the test cases based on the specification that the third guy wrote which now refers to a different building entirely, a 7th to chase everyone else to "fill in a traceability matrix", an eighth who joins late in the day to "manage the test process" but does nothing except set up meetings to ask people to explain the concept of light to him in the first place and a ninth to publish status reports.

the 10th guy brought in at the last minute turns out to be ok and has changed lightbulbs before, but he leaves the project immediately because he hates working with other offshore analysts

# ? Oct 29, 2016 10:05

Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

leftist heap posted:

i haven't used backbone a lot, but from what i know it's not really comparable. and also anything looks good compared to jquery diarrhea.

angular 1 basically failed at everything it tried. p much every piece was half baked, overly complicated, dumb, slow, etc. routing, directives, templates, services, DI, etc. every piece had huge flaws and shortcomings. i'm sure it's better now but man, at least as of 1.2/1.3 it was super rough. routing was stupidly half baked, directives were obtuse and a big plate of edge cases. built in directives weren't consistent and frequently lacking in pretty basic poo poo. it was just not a useful model for building and maintain a remotely big app.

yeah, idk, I have very little experience with it. Ive liked the data binding stuff, very pratical. And components and directive seems very useful, and the builtin directives I used so far were simple and worked. Routing does seems kinda bad, although I have to admit I probably dont fully undesrtand it

That vue thing someone mentioned a few pags ago seems to be a better version of Angular, at a glance

edit: Im reading the react tutorial. I really dont like this:

code:

class ShoppingList extends React.Component {
  render() {
    return (
      <div className="shopping-list">
        <h1>Shopping List for {this.props.name}</h1>
        <ul>
          <li>Instagram</li>
          <li>WhatsApp</li>
          <li>Oculus</li>
        </ul>
      </div>
    );
  }
}

So that's the new cool thing? Mix HTML with code with this weird syntax? That seems like something that would be hell to maintain. What's wrong with templates?

Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Oct 29, 2016

# ? Oct 29, 2016 13:32

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

Wheany posted:

you are now required to implement skull trumpet on the amiga

challenge accepted

# ? Oct 29, 2016 14:12

kitten emergency: Jan 13, 2008; get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

Su-Su-Sudoko posted:

it's apparently based on datalog?

so it's some sort of language... for querying data? and the data has a structure?

gosh, I wish someone had thought about making a language for querying structured data that was designed for "non-technical" people before.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 14:35

leper khan: Dec 28, 2010; Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

uncurable mlady posted:

so it's some sort of language... for querying data? and the data has a structure?

gosh, I wish someone had thought about making a language for querying structured data that was designed for "non-technical" people before.

almost like a structured query language.. what would we call such a thing?

# ? Oct 29, 2016 14:42

Powerful Two-Hander: Mar 10, 2004; Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.

leper khan posted:

almost like a structured query language.. what would we call such a thing?

crystal reports

# ? Oct 29, 2016 14:57

jony neuemonic: Nov 13, 2009

Elias_Maluco posted:

yeah, idk, I have very little experience with it. Ive liked the data binding stuff, very pratical. And components and directive seems very useful, and the builtin directives I used so far were simple and worked. Routing does seems kinda bad, although I have to admit I probably dont fully undesrtand it

That vue thing someone mentioned a few pags ago seems to be a better version of Angular, at a glance

edit: Im reading the react tutorial. I really dont like this:
code:
class ShoppingList extends React.Component {
  render() {
    return (
      <div className="shopping-list">
        <h1>Shopping List for {this.props.name}</h1>
        <ul>
          <li>Instagram</li>
          <li>WhatsApp</li>
          <li>Oculus</li>
        </ul>
      </div>
    );
  }
}
So that's the new cool thing? Mix HTML with code with this weird syntax? That seems like something that would be hell to maintain. What's wrong with templates?

i know this is going to sound pedantic as hell but, it's not html and react components are your templates. this guy's blog post explains it better than i probably can.

# ? Oct 29, 2016 16:58

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

I'm the grammatical and parsing ambiguities between inline dom literals and comparison operators which will certainly never bite anybody in the rear end

# ? Oct 29, 2016 17:13

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# ? Jun 13, 2024 05:48

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

gonadic io posted:

In rust you can put code/test cases in your documentation. It gets compiled (and executed if it's a test)

python has this too sort of, but the only things you can test are "does executing this command result in exactly this output" which is a little less useful than some people may think

# ? Oct 29, 2016 17:16

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