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White Bear isn't about BLM but I don't think it's unfair to point out that there's a vastly different cultural context to filming acts of violence between America and Britain. Part of why White Bear didn't connect with me at all is because the social commentary comes from a very explicitly British perspective that I don't think translates well across the pond.
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Oct 28, 2016 20:58
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RustedChainsaw posted:I really liked Playtest for the same reasons, but I keep seeing it at the bottom of everyone's lists... Even Charlie Brooker came out and said he just wanted a spooky scary episode that was fun, which Playtest knocked out the park, and there were only a couple smarmy moments for Wyatt Russell. It's ahead of the "What if dehumanizing the enemy, but too much" & Blue's Bizzare Bee Blowout IMO. I liked Playtest too, and while the twist seemed a little off to me, I thought Wyatt Russell did a great job going from 'oh, it's a gross spider, nice try' or 'haha, that vision of my old bully is totally gonna pop out at me when I close the cabinet pfft' to his wild freak out and breakdown. Plus, like I said earlier in the thread, since losing my mother a few years back, I'm still a big ol' sappy sucker for things like what happened at the end, so maybe it hit me harder than it had any real right to.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:10
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HorseRenoir posted:White Bear isn't about BLM but I don't think it's unfair to point out that there's a vastly different cultural context to filming acts of violence between America and Britain. Part of why White Bear didn't connect with me at all is because the social commentary comes from a very explicitly British perspective that I don't think translates well across the pond. I actually agree with this. Dwelling on her painful screams felt awkward for me in a bad way, because there is so much American media that does this in a way that encourages us to enjoy it. I understand enough about context to know that it's intentionally trying to make the audience uncomfortable to make them face the consequences of some of the witch hunts they've been calling for, but it still feels almost pornographic in the way that it dwells on her pain for so much of the second half. I can't say that it "didn't connect with me at all," but it did make me feel a sort of senseless despair that may have had a little sense to it if I'd been from the U.K. Too many American filmmakers are trying to invite us to enjoy watching torture for us not to be suspect of it.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:13
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Finally watching Hated in the Nation, it's good to know that Cookies were eventually given human rights
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Oct 28, 2016 21:29
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I just watched the Waldo ep for the first time, and I think the criticism of it I read before is no longer valid considering the last year and a half of American politics.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:50
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:I just watched the Waldo ep for the first time, and I think the criticism of it I read before is no longer valid considering the last year and a half of American politics. It's probably also got some Brexit relevance (it's still too heavy-handed at the end).
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Oct 28, 2016 21:55
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Bicyclops posted:I actually agree with this. Dwelling on her painful screams felt awkward for me in a bad way, because there is so much American media that does this in a way that encourages us to enjoy it. I understand enough about context to know that it's intentionally trying to make the audience uncomfortable to make them face the consequences of some of the witch hunts they've been calling for, but it still feels almost pornographic in the way that it dwells on her pain for so much of the second half. I can't say that it "didn't connect with me at all," but it did make me feel a sort of senseless despair that may have had a little sense to it if I'd been from the U.K. Too many American filmmakers are trying to invite us to enjoy watching torture for us not to be suspect of it. Not only that, but the episode paints the act of filming and sharing videos of real-world violence as something cruel and voyeuristic, with the park itself being an elaborate snuff film designed to punish someone who created a snuff film. That might work as commentary about British tabloid culture and the hysteria over the Moors Murders, but as a black American it rings hollow when most public acts of violence over here are filmed and shared specifically because our lovely media/justice system would otherwise cover it up, not because there's a massive amount of bloodthirsty voyeurs who love watching scandalous footage of police brutality.
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Oct 28, 2016 22:43
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Here's my red hot take; Despite the silliness of the bees, Hated in the Nation is a very good episode of Black Mirror. e: 461325 Daius fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 22:57
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HorseRenoir posted:Not only that, but the episode paints the act of filming and sharing videos of real-world violence as something cruel and voyeuristic, with the park itself being an elaborate snuff film designed to punish someone who created a snuff film. That might work as commentary about British tabloid culture and the hysteria over the Moors Murders, but as a black American it rings hollow when most public acts of violence over here are filmed and shared specifically because our lovely media/justice system would otherwise cover it up, not because there's a massive amount of bloodthirsty voyeurs who love watching scandalous footage of police brutality. Well, there is an element of context here that helps. These people are signing on for the violence and a part of the mob, and the sad truth is there are Americans who film disgusting violence as a sort of "Look at this degenerate get his comeuppance!" That the people filming are mostly white and obviously enjoying themselves doesn't hurt either. The proliferation of film technology and its ability to document violence, both in terms of the unnecessary violence from law enforcement and other sources (Trump rallies have been a big one), have been hugely important, but the unsavory corners of America see those seem videos with a kind of terrifying and smiling satisfaction, and they are sometimes the people holding the phone. I think in the end, you're right, because society as a whole, even if it supports the police brutality, does not vindicate the voyeurs (whereas, in the episode, it does).
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Oct 28, 2016 23:02
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HorseRenoir posted:White Bear isn't about BLM but I don't think it's unfair to point out that there's a vastly different cultural context to filming acts of violence between America and Britain. Part of why White Bear didn't connect with me at all is because the social commentary comes from a very explicitly British perspective that I don't think translates well across the pond. As a personal opinion, this is fine (obviously) and I think it's an interesting point to bring up, something definitely worth discussing - but for an analysis/critique, it's dishonest to not mention the actual cultural context of the episode as Film Crit Hulk fails to do. It's satire, so you do need to know what it's satirising before making a formal criticism. More generally, like others have said, I think Film Crit Hulk has mistaken the conceit (phones but too much) of Black Mirror for the actual content (misanthropic stories about base human behaviour). The flip side of White Bear is Princess Diana.
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Oct 28, 2016 23:16
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After finishing all three seasons I loved 3 episodes and hated or disliked the rest. It's not a particularly deep show and it has problems with consistency of acting quality (good: White Chrismas, bad: The Entire History of You), pacing (see: Nosedive first 30 minutes) and often cuts corners by exaggerating behaviors to drive home a heavy handed message (see: White Bear). The expectation for an Outer Limits (with technology) like twist often left me frustrated when the ending or twist was bad, such as in Shut Up and Dance. National Anthem hooked me, despite being ridiculous, but the last 20% really highlights pacing problems mentioned earlier as it was awkwardly rushed. I realize this goes against the grain but I just had no profound introspective moments or times where I felt like I needed to 'get away from tech and curl into a ball' as suggested elsewhere. On more than one occasion I felt like I could have been on Vimeo watching an independent movie by a few friends. Shammypants fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Oct 29, 2016 |
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Oct 29, 2016 00:55
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Lt. Danger posted:More generally, like others have said, I think Film Crit Hulk has mistaken the conceit (phones but too much) of Black Mirror for the actual content (misanthropic stories about base human behaviour). The flip side of White Bear is Princess Diana. This. The way I saw it, it criticizes voyeurism and detachment, not specifically the act of recording violence. Recording police brutality to document it and use it as evidence isn't the same.
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Oct 29, 2016 01:22
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XyrlocShammypants posted:After finishing all three seasons I loved 3 episodes and hated or disliked the rest. It's not a particularly deep show and it has problems with consistency of acting quality (good: White Chrismas, bad: The Entire History of You) ...what? Like, could you elaborate? Who was bad in that? That cast's probably one of the strongest ensembles they've thrown together.
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Oct 29, 2016 04:29
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Daius posted:Despite the silliness of the bees, Hated in the Nation is a very good episode of Black Mirror. I still find it weird that so many people complain that it is silly, because even though it is, most episodes are if you think about it too hard. My guess is that it's more about different things breaking suspension of disbelief for different people.
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Oct 29, 2016 08:20
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Out of this new season, 'San Junipero' was the best.
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Oct 29, 2016 09:48
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Griefor posted:I still find it weird that so many people complain that it is silly, because even though it is, most episodes are if you think about it too hard. My guess is that it's more about different things breaking suspension of disbelief for different people. Yep, that's exactly what it is. I can buy most of the silly stuff this show throws at us but robot bees are a totally different breed of silly, and don't feel suitable for Black Mirror at all. e: gently caress how does someone manage to post before me EVERY SINGLE TIME I think I'm fine not having to quote the post immediately above
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Oct 29, 2016 09:51
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For those wondering how Charlie Booker intended the ending of San Junipero to be understood. Here it is in his own words http://www.vogue.com/13497476/black-mirror-creator-charlie-brooker-san-junipero/?mbid=social_onsite_twitter They have the happiest ending imaginable. What they are facing is a potentially difficult future because it could be, like Kelly says, it’s potentially forever. But as Yorkie points out, they can end it at any time. So it’s not a big rainbow sandwich, but what appears to be happening there, is happening there. It’s them, they drive off into the sunset together—because, why not?
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Oct 29, 2016 10:38
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XyrlocShammypants posted:like twist often left me frustrated when the ending or twist was bad, such as in Shut Up and Dance. great example.
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Oct 29, 2016 12:40
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"The Harvard Microrobotics Lab has been working on its Micro Air Vehicles Project since early 2009. Borrowing from the biomechanics and social organization of bees, the team of researchers is undergoing the creation of tiny winged robots to fly from flower to flower, immune to the toxins dripping from petals, to spread pollen. They even believe that they will soon be able to program the robobees to live in an artificial hive, coordinate algorithms and communicate amongst themselves about methods of pollination and location of particular crops." http://earthfirstjournal.org/newswire/2013/04/08/robotic-bees-to-pollinate-monsanto-crops/
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Oct 30, 2016 00:37
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Bicyclops posted:It's probably also got some Brexit relevance (it's still too heavy-handed at the end). I think the end is supposed to be comically absurd
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Oct 30, 2016 00:55
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Just blew through season 1 and up to 2-3 and this show is fantastic. Fifteen Million Merits is hands-down my favorite just for the ending being so deliciously cynical. White Bear has a super disturbing ending, and all the rest were solid as well. I even like The Waldo Moment as long as you ignore the epilogue. As others have said the acting is so, so on point that it makes even the weaker episodes into better television. Gonna watch the Christmas special tonight and dive right into season 3 tomorrow. On the subject of White Bear, when the woman was strapped in the chair and it lingered on her crying in front of the audience, was anyone else thinking she might reveal the weeping to be an act and her demeanor take a shift into the killer everyone was accusing her of being? I remember thinking, "the other shoe has to drop on this scene because otherwise it's pretty hosed up." Turns out it was hosed up!
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Oct 30, 2016 01:48
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Groovelord Neato posted:lol did he really think white bear was related to black lives matter what. He's a very bad critic and makes missteps like that constantly actually.
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Oct 30, 2016 02:02
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Hated in the nation was good fun. Not the best but definitely worth seeing.
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Oct 30, 2016 02:47
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theblackw0lf posted:For those wondering how Charlie Booker intended the ending of San Junipero to be understood. Here it is in his own words  Yeah, I like that. Yorkie basically missed out on her entire life. I get some of the complaints that she isn't as sensitive as she can be about Kelly's background, but I think she gives Kelly a new purpose, to experience that sort of all-encompassing optimism that comes with the beginning of a relationship.
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Oct 30, 2016 05:20
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Yorkie is a monster for wearing glasses as a fashion statement. It's not like people use wheelchairs just to be interesting. Completely insensitive to people with real disabilities. What a bitch.
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Oct 30, 2016 05:45
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Mu Zeta posted:Yorkie is a monster for wearing glasses as a fashion statement. It's not like people use wheelchairs just to be interesting. Completely insensitive to people with real disabilities. What a bitch. -Jon Hamm's character, "White Christmas," with everyone uncomfortably disagreeing with him but unsure how to express that disagreement against his natural charisma
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Oct 30, 2016 05:56
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That was such a cute scene when she was trying out different styles for her avatar to find something that really fit "her". San Junipero felt more like a short film than an episode of Black Mirror, and I mean that in the most positive way. I was honestly terrified that Yorkie wouldn't be the same after the crossover (like, the "ghosts" being imperfect copies or something like that.) There's still a lot of real challenges thinking about that kind of technology. What happens if the server farm is ever flooded or loses power? What if you get bored with 'forever' in the same beach town? Will there be expansions? Can the data be transferred or copied to other game worlds, or to SanJunipero II when it comes out? What happens if they decide to shut down the servers? A lot of neat little ethical questions about the world under that story. mistaya fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Oct 30, 2016 |
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Oct 30, 2016 06:57
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mistaya posted:That was such a cute scene when she was trying out different styles for her avatar to find something that really fit "her". They said in the episode that people permanently staying in San Junipero could pass on and delete themselves any time they wanted to, so no one is actually trapped there.
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Oct 30, 2016 07:15
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HorseRenoir posted:They said in the episode that people permanently staying in San Junipero could pass on and delete themselves any time they wanted to, so no one is actually trapped there. Hey, just like in real life, where everyone can decide to end it all if they no longer enjoy this plane of existence. That's a happy thought...
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Oct 30, 2016 10:40
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Sure but it's probably more clinic in Switzerland than shotgun blast to the face
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Oct 30, 2016 10:50
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The episode never really digs into the horror of dead relatives pleading with their descendants to buy them cosmetic dlc.
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Oct 30, 2016 11:43
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Mu Zeta posted:Yorkie is a monster for wearing glasses as a fashion statement. It's not like people use wheelchairs just to be interesting. Completely insensitive to people with real disabilities. What a bitch. Maybe I misremember the scene, but isn't the thing that she needed glasses in real life, and in San Junipero you don't need them because everyone has perfect vision?
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Oct 30, 2016 11:44
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VocalizePlayerDeath posted:The episode never really digs into the horror of dead relatives pleading with their descendants to buy them cosmetic dlc. that'd make an actual good black mirror ep. Surprise Giraffe posted:Hated in the nation was good fun. Not the best but definitely worth seeing. i've straight up been telling people to just stop after episode 5.
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Oct 30, 2016 13:40
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That's an especially weird thing to tell people considering how much better than episode 5 it is
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Oct 30, 2016 13:59
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no..no it isn't. i mean a lot of y'all got bad taste judging by people's rankings of the season but that episode was straight up the worst they done.
Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Oct 30, 2016 |
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Oct 30, 2016 15:05
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for real. it's comparatively stinky
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Oct 30, 2016 15:07
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Perhaps some of us aspire for Black Mirror to be more than nothing but rehashes of The Outer Limits formula. Defending Men Against Fire as a good or interesting Black Mirror episode is a really weird hill to die on because it's probably the blandest, most tried concept the series has done yet. Whatever faults you see in Hated in the Nation atleast it actually tried something.
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Oct 30, 2016 15:17
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Arguably a mediocre scandinavian thriller meets x-files ripoff pilot is far less aspirational than the show's usual thing, but whatever floats your boat
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Oct 30, 2016 15:23
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Binged through Season 3. To me Black Mirror is about using technology to reveal an unpleasant truth about humanity, so that's the lense I'm looking at it through. 3x01 - Nosedive - I liked this dig at the superficiality of people trying to get internet followers and how artificial people's social media interactions can be (I think the show did a good job of making things unpleasantly pleasant early on). I don't think it was a hugely original idea (as people have said it's basically the MeowMeowBeans episode from Community) but still it was a fun ride, and as she's nosediving it's interesting to think about whether she's ruining her life or whether she's freeing herself from a stifling system (she loses a lot of material advantages, but ultimately seems to end up happier). I thought the very end was fun and cathartic too. 3x02 - Playtest - Didn't get the point in this. They doom a character then save him then doom him again then save him then it turns out he basically died halfway through the episode and everything after that was him hallucinating as his brain got fried. I don't think the episode had anything to say (unless "haha, guess you should've turned your phone off!" somehow counts) and the moment there's anything at stake the main guy instantly dies so when everything is done you feel like you've wasted your time and all the earlier fakeouts made you stop caring. The technology itself seemed kinda interesting, but none of that matters because the guy loving dies the moment he uses it or maybe it wasn't interesting because we never saw it working properly anyway. Really he could've just been hit by a bus or something on his way to the job and the story wouldn't have changed much. Or maybe the message is "when you plug videogames into your brain, bugs are gonna be REALLY deadly". 3x03 - Shut up and Dance - This episode is kind of an endless gutpunch combo (horrible things happen to horrible people) so by the end of it you're kinda desensitized to things. "Oh they have to fight to the death, well of course they do". I thought the twist was well done though - you think an innocent kid is getting dragged into this because he lacks a sense of perspective but then after the reveal things make more sense than they did before. The blackmailers felt a bit too omnipotent for me though - they spy on people for 3 seconds, immediately obtain leverage over them then perfectly manipulate them to carry out their labyrinth design which has a billion possible failure points. I guess I would've liked it more if things went wrong for the blackmailers and they had to adapt, or if we got more of a sense of why they were doing things. 3x04 - San Junipero - Didn't get the point in this episode. The old, the infirm and the dead getting a digital world to play in is interesting I guess, but in a virtual world blessed with infinite possibilities I dunno why your only options are various flavours of nightclub. I know I'm in the minority here, but for me an eternal nightclub strikes far closer to my idea of hell than my idea of heaven. And maybe it makes sense that if you're too frail to do normal things, then normal things become more exotic to you than exotic things... as well as playing off people's nostalgia for when they were at their prime but still I would've expected more variety inside this virtual world. I also didn't really get what the main characters liked so much about each other, it felt like they spent much more time looking for each other than doing anything together. Sorry. 3x05 - Men Against Fire - I thought the twist here was really obvious and kinda heavy-handed, but still I enjoyed things (Roaches was a really good name to use for the enemies, because for a second it makes you think things are going all starship troopers) and the core idea rang true for me. If an army had the technology and thought they would get away with it they would totally use augmented reality poo poo to dehumanize the enemy and desensitize their soldiers (maybe not to quite this extent, but you just have to look at war era political cartoons to see how quickly governments frame enemies as subhuman). I thought the eugenics part of it was kinda dumb though, an implant that makes people of a certain race look like monsters just seems more believable to me than an implant that scans people's DNA for disease risk and other undesirable traits. I can see why making the episode about race or immigration might offend people though, "they turned my people into monsters then exterminated them" isn't going to be enjoyable even if the episode is showing how horrible that idea is. 3x06 - Hated in the Nation - I thought there's an interesting point to be made about internet hate figures where crowds demonize someone whilst exhibiting the exact same lack of empathy as the person they're condemning. Except it's hard to take the idea seriously when KILLER ROBOT BEES are the tool being used to explore it. So I think there's a good idea at the core here but goddamn is there a thousand better ways to explore it than KILLER ROBOT BEES, especially when you take like 10 minutes explaining how your KILLER ROBOT BEES work. Black Mirror often takes ideas to silly extremes but they bees just seemed too goofy for me considering that everything else seemed modern day. Anyway I find it hilarious that people seem to agree that Black Mirror is hit or miss, but there's large scale disagreement about which episodes are hits and which episodes are misses.
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Oct 30, 2016 15:28
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Daius posted:Perhaps some of us aspire for Black Mirror to be more than nothing but rehashes of The Outer Limits formula. the "at least they tried" defense is super weak. it's also a bad defense because the base concept of episode 6 (the internet hate machine) is a good one to use but they so horribly botched it that it makes it even worse that they "tried".
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Oct 30, 2016 15:39
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