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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Be cautious about replacing the panel itself, since (as I understand it) in many jurisdictions that means bringing the entire rest of the house up to code electricity-wise. With an old house that might mean rewiring the entire house. poo poo  I'm in the middle of getting ready to upgrade our breaker panel from 150 Amp to 200 Amp so I could run some 230 Volt drops for a server in my home lab. That's gonna put a damper on that real quick
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Oct 28, 2016 19:07
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Bad Munki posted:I'm putting up cladding on the walls, like drywall (although probably not actually drywall, but instead something much, much more robust) so I believe that covers protecting the wiring? They'll be in wall cavities up to about 10'. And I don't have any plans for wiring above that, but if I do, I plan on metal flex conduit as needed. Article 547 requires those types of cable based on the building being used for agricultural purposes (which results in excessive dust, dust with water, and/or corrosive environment). If the building is not actually a barn for agricultural use, maybe it doesn't fall under that article, but your building department would probably have to make that determination. Regarding the box, each circuit needs its own neutral, unless it is part of a multiwire circuit. Thus requires the two circuits to be on separate poles, and may require that they have a common trip mechanism. Also, how big is that 3 gang box? The required volume is probably fairly large to handle the conductors for the 3 way switch, plus the wires associated with the two other switches.
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Oct 28, 2016 19:43
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:You can probably just replace some of the existing breakers with twin breakers, which put two circuit breakers onto a single "pole" (i.e. slot on the panel). Unless of course all of your panel's slots are already filled with twin breakers. The garage has 2 outlets and they're on a 15 amp circuit. My welder and air compressor trip it all the time, and luckily they're shared with the TV room circuits!  CommieGIR posted:poo poo
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Oct 28, 2016 19:48
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CommieGIR posted:poo poo Have you figured out how much current you really need? Are you already tripping your main breaker? I'd be surprised if you need to up size your panel for running a server... needing over 11kW for it seems excessive. I was looking into up sizing the panel at my house to 200 A from 100 A, but it was looking like it would cost almost $3000 because they would have to provide new service wires to my house as well. I decided it wasn't worth it since I'm we weren't planning on getting central air, a jacuzzi, or any other power hungry equipment.
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Oct 28, 2016 20:01
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Special A posted:Have you figured out how much current you really need? Are you already tripping your main breaker? I'd be surprised if you need to up size your panel for running a server... needing over 11kW for it seems excessive. The issue is I don't have space in the current breaker panel for the run. This also includes expanding the panel for a new drop in the garage for the Welder and Air Compressor.
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Oct 28, 2016 20:18
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kid sinister posted:With the lights on the ends, no. With 3 way switching, all methods rely on an incoming hot from one switch going over 2 travelers to the second switch, and the hot going from there to the lights. In other words, you'd need the final hot going between both lights no matter what. That means: put the lights in the middle with the switches on the ends for the fewest number of wires. You can do this with home automation stuff too. Buy a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/Insteon-2466SW-ToggleLinc-INSTEON-Non-Dimming/dp/B003ICY0M6 and you can pair them to each other so that either switch controls both. They are definitely going to be more expensive then just running a bunch of wiring though.
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Oct 29, 2016 00:39
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CommieGIR posted:The issue is I don't have space in the current breaker panel for the run. This also includes expanding the panel for a new drop in the garage for the Welder and Air Compressor. Do you mean space by breakers or space by amps? Because they make tandem breakers for nearly every panel. You could move several existing circuits to tandem breakers to free up slots if it won't overload your panel.
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Oct 29, 2016 01:37
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kid sinister posted:Do you mean space by breakers or space by amps? Because they make tandem breakers for nearly every panel. You could move several existing circuits to tandem breakers to free up slots if it won't overload your panel. Holy crap, I didn't even know that was a thing. Any real risks to tandem breakers?
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Oct 29, 2016 01:57
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kid sinister posted:Do you mean space by breakers or space by amps? Because they make tandem breakers for nearly every panel. You could move several existing circuits to tandem breakers to free up slots if it won't overload your panel. This is what I was describing, by the way, I just got the terminology wrong. Whoops!
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Oct 29, 2016 02:12
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CommieGIR posted:Holy crap, I didn't even know that was a thing. Any real risks to tandem breakers? Well, you don't want to split up any existing circuits that share neutrals. Code has been added fairly recently that shared neutral circuits must also share a breaker. Remove your breaker panel. Do you have red wires going into any breakers that aren't 2 pole that are 20 amp or below? kid sinister fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Oct 29, 2016 |
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Oct 29, 2016 03:39
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kid sinister posted:Well, you don't want to split up any existing circuits that share neutrals. Code has been added fairly recently that shared neutral circuits must also share a breaker. Remove your breaker panel. Do you have red wires going into any breakers that aren't 2 pole that are 20 amp or below?  The house was built in 1986, so its a fairly old house. I'd need to clear up enough space for at least one 30 Amp 230v Breaker, I'd like to get two in there, but I suspect that will exceed the rating of the box.
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Oct 29, 2016 04:27
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CommieGIR posted:
Oh gently caress I'm getting old. Who makes that panel? Post a picture of the label on the inside of the door. Also, how many amps is your service?
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Oct 29, 2016 04:49
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kid sinister posted:Oh gently caress I'm getting old. Service is 200 Amps, but the box is 150 Amp. I'll get a picture of the door in the AM.
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Oct 29, 2016 05:24
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 Here's the panel interior. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Oct 29, 2016 |
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Oct 29, 2016 21:17
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CommieGIR posted:
Gloryhole?
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Oct 29, 2016 21:21
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Phanatic posted:Gloryhole? All 120 volts of it.
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Oct 29, 2016 21:23
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It looks like the panel supports Duplex style MH breakers on the lower slots.
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Oct 29, 2016 22:16
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CommieGIR posted:It looks like the panel supports Duplex style MH breakers on the lower slots. Also, if the service conductors are already sized for 200A, you can just use a 200A main breaker, since the panel is already designed for it.
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Oct 29, 2016 22:56
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Special A posted:Also, if the service conductors are already sized for 200A, you can just use a 200A main breaker, since the panel is already designed for it. Yeah, this'll be much easier than replacing the whole panel. Thanks guys, seems like Duplex Breakers + a larger Main breaker is the route to go.
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Oct 29, 2016 22:56
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah, this'll be much easier than replacing the whole panel. Thanks guys, seems like Duplex Breakers + a larger Main breaker is the route to go. Don't forget to update your circuit labels if you're moving breakers around.
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Oct 30, 2016 00:26
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kid sinister posted:Don't forget to update your circuit labels if you're moving breakers around. Most of them were missing labels, so I'm actually going to turn off the main and tone out all the lines.
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Oct 30, 2016 00:29
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Jesus Christ the gfci receptacles our electrician installed are terrible. They're tamper resistant and half the stuff I've tried to plug in won't go unless you wiggle the poo poo out of it and push like hell. Any advice before i bin them and install ones without the TR bullshit?
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Oct 30, 2016 05:43
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EvilJoven posted:Jesus Christ the gfci receptacles our electrician installed are terrible. They're tamper resistant and half the stuff I've tried to plug in won't go unless you wiggle the poo poo out of it and push like hell. Stop being a pussy and learn how to plug poo poo in? TRs are seriously not that bad.
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Oct 30, 2016 15:15
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The normal ones we have are fine it's specifically the Eaton GFCIs I'm having issues with.
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Oct 30, 2016 15:34
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EvilJoven posted:The normal ones we have are fine it's specifically the Eaton GFCIs I'm having issues with. I've found a lot of variation in the TR receptacles in that sense. Not sure if it's a product quality thing or what. I will say they seen to generally get better after a few cycle of plugging thing in; I guess maybe they just need to be "broken in"?
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Oct 30, 2016 16:41
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Crotch Fruit posted:Stop being a pussy and learn how to plug poo poo in? TRs are seriously not that bad.
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Oct 30, 2016 16:50
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EvilJoven posted:Jesus Christ the gfci receptacles our electrician installed are terrible. They're tamper resistant and half the stuff I've tried to plug in won't go unless you wiggle the poo poo out of it and push like hell. You still need TR outlets. I recommend switching manufacturers.
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Oct 30, 2016 17:40
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CommieGIR posted:Most of them were missing labels, so I'm actually going to turn off the main and tone out all the lines. Ooh, got some more advice if you're looking to cram in a pair of 2 pole breakers. Double pole tandem breakers are a thing.
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Oct 31, 2016 02:57
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CommieGIR posted:
My hero. 
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Oct 31, 2016 03:02
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kid sinister posted:Ooh, got some more advice if you're looking to cram in a pair of 2 pole breakers. Double pole tandem breakers are a thing. Yeah, I've gotta make sure the bus rail supports them, but that will definently make enough space for me to squeeze in two 30 Amp 230v Breakers. Either way, this significantly cuts the budget down, and lets me allocate the excess to a new run for the garage.
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Oct 31, 2016 04:09
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 I have a small storage hole under my stairs and it has no light, or power, but It does have a two gang box (straight below the NM lines). The box already has 5 runs of NM, it's been a while since I messed with it but I remember it was kinda a pain to deal with all the wires, even if code allowed another conductor I would prefer not add an additional conductor. There are two switches on two different breakers in the box, so two lines that supply power, two switched legs, and one pass through. As far as getting power to a light figure, I would simply pull the supply line out of the box, I think my easiest option would be to simply divert one of the two supply lines to a light fixture. For the fixture, I'm considering just a pull chain light fixture mounted on the side of the stud that is pictured, I would have the bulb sticking straight of wall. I'm not entirely certain a pull chain would work reliably/not be a pain in the rear end in this position, I would prefer to mount a switch. In addition, I am considering relocating my wireless router to the corner seen in the picture, it would be as close as possible to the center of my house and right below the floor of the main level which hopefully would provide the best signal. For providing power to my router, I see three options - A) go with the pull chain with an outlet and plug the router into the outlet - except is the outlet normally switched on these fixtures? B) use the lighting circuit and install a receptacle somewhere else in the closet or C) tap into the circuit that runs through the closet powering the rest of the outlets in my office. I think option C is the smartest option, the only downside being simply that I would have go purchase a few feet of 12/2 romex because the office circuit is 20amp, I already have some spare 15 amp romex if I wanted to tap into the lighting circuit. Is there anything I am overlooking in my plan?
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Nov 4, 2016 18:02
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I think there are some minimum clearances for lights in closets, but I don't know what they are. I'm just here to say that a pull chain fixture is a pain and not something you should put in new. Doubly so for a pull chain fixture with a receptacle in it. How about a double-gang receptacle with a motion-sensing LED nightlight plugged in? If it was me and I really wanted a light fixture, I'd either do a wall switch or a permanently-on light fixture with a cheap motion-sensing (PIR) LED bulb. There are also cheap flush-mount LED fixtures that mount right to a box now, so no screw base fixture needed.
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Nov 4, 2016 18:57
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One Day Fish Sale posted:I think there are some minimum clearances for lights in closets, but I don't know what they are. I'm just here to say that a pull chain fixture is a pain and not something you should put in new. Doubly so for a pull chain fixture with a receptacle in it. LED light strip + momentary switch that is triggered when you open the door is an amazing thing. Depressed = open (off).
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Nov 4, 2016 19:01
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Crotch Fruit posted:
Fish Sale is right, there are rules about minimum clearances regarding exposed bulbs. You get around these with enclosed fixtures or putting one of those plastic cages over the bulb. Still, the only cages I've seen fit over an incandescent bulb, and CFL and LED bulbs are fatter near the bottom. Also, the outlet in a pull chain fixture is always on, I just tested mine for you. Don't mount your router directly next to the NM. You don't want their interference to mess with your signal. The same goes for the line that you'll be using to get data to the router. It doesn't have to be far, just a couple inches is enough. Is there a box for your office in that closet? If not, is that cable exposed in there?
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Nov 4, 2016 20:50
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An MS paint over head shot of my stairs: Blue is the 20 amp circuit going to my office, red is the switch box just out of frame in my previous post. The green square is a proposed location for the outlet, although the more I think about it, I will probably locate it closer to the switch box and more straight in front of you when opening the door. I have full access under the stairs, the high point is near the door, the landing is about 4ft high, and I drew an orange x over the lowest part of the stairs because it's a pain in the rear end to do anything with that space due to the low clearance. The orange dot is a floor outlet upstairs, and the brown line is a plywood barrier (reinforcement or fire stop?) that was stapled to the side of one of the trusses. If that plywood was not there, I would have much better access to the space between the floor near staircase but it's there and in the way so I will look for other paths to provide power. If I poke and prod a lot and use the hole from the floor outlet, I might be able to run a new line of romex along the same path as the supply for the switch box, but it would be a tremendous pain in the rear end I think my plan now is going to be to install a duplex outlet inside the closet using the circuit for my office, and then use a corded under cabinet light which I would mount at or directly below the header seen in my previous picture. And yes, I would like to mount the router at least 6 inches to a foot away from the NM and as high up as possible, I'm not sure what I will do. . . Unfortunately, my router does not have slots for wall mounting using screws so I plan to make a small shelf using a couple 2" metal brackets. Either that or I could go full ghetto with zip ties and staples to try to secure it to the wall. . . but I think a 2" deep shelf is smarter.
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Nov 4, 2016 21:03
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Crotch Fruit posted:An MS paint over head shot of my stairs: Here's what I would do. Run 12/2 from the blue box to your new switch box, run 12/3 from there to your light (constant hot over black, switched hot over red), then 12/2 from there to your outlet box where your shelf will be. I'd also mount a surge protector but that's just me. Also, 2 inches seems kind of shallow. It also assumes you'll never want or need to put any larger networking gear there in the future. You also didn't mention how you'll be getting the data line to this router...
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Nov 4, 2016 21:37
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I live in an old house from the 1930s/40s. Have an outlet that worked but anything that plugged in was wobbly and would fall out. Is it fair to say that the darker cable (on the right) is the "black" and the other cable (on the left and not as dark) is the "white"? 
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Nov 5, 2016 20:18
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Yes. You can also test with your voltmeter by noting which one has voltage to ground, but it looks like you will have to get a little creative to find a ground to test with.
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Nov 5, 2016 23:28
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Theoretically the box is grounded, but if not, a non contact voltage meter would do the trick. Tortilla Maker - There's a decent chance you are correct, but by the same token, doing electrical work without a meter of some sort means hoping the guy before you actually color coded his wire correctly. Slugworth fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Nov 6, 2016 |
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Nov 6, 2016 04:38
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Slugworth posted:Theoretically the box is grounded, but if not, a non contact voltage meter would do the trick. Get one of these, they are a life saver. Otherwise, can you reach some of your water pipes? Dial 9-1 into your phone, grab the hot + water pipe. You'll know what to do from there.
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Nov 6, 2016 04:44
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