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Friendly Humour posted:Um ok, but left or no left, why exactly did the parents reject the government investigation? Cuz I keep reading about "international investigations" that reject the official verdict, which seemed to be the stated reason. I don't think it's exactly healthy to reject them out of hand just because their case would be hopeless without political affliation. And regardless, if the federal government was indeed so seemingly incapable in handling the investigation as to make them culpable, aren't the people you call your "hard left" basically right? I mean, on a facts level? According to the IACHR (Human rights commission for the Organization of American States) the government lied, saying that the students were not killed and their bodies burned the way the government investigation says, but never gave another hypothesis on what happened, because it is also hard for them to investigate what really happened. After a year of investigations, it felt more and more that the investigation from the IACHR was more focused in discrediting the government investigation than propose their own theory, which I think made them lose credibility with people (including myself). Now add this to the fact that the IACHR's executive secretary is a mexican human rights advocate linked to the left political party ruling Mexico City (PRD), that the pro-government press has accused him of using this conflict for his political gain. On how the left used the governments inability to act to turn this around, was because the local government where this incident happened was ruled by this same party (PRD) and the mayor of this town was the one that ordered the police to detain the students and hand them over to the drug gang. So instead of this mess exploding in their hands, they masterfully changed the public opinion and blamed it on the federal government, federal police and army. I could go on and on about this, the polarizing aspect in discussing this problem, is that the issue pertains so many levels in government (local, state and federal), drug cartels, guerilla (it is known that the "normal rural" schools where these students go are a breeding ground for guerillas that have opposed the government for close to 50 years), so there are so many hands and interest in this, that is so difficult to get the real truth and finally give the parents some needed resolution to the fate of their sons.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:47
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El Chingon posted:According to the IACHR (Human rights commission for the Organization of American States) the government lied, saying that the students were not killed and their bodies burned the way the government investigation says, but never gave another hypothesis on what happened, because it is also hard for them to investigate what really happened. After a year of investigations, it felt more and more that the investigation from the IACHR was more focused in discrediting the government investigation than propose their own theory, which I think made them lose credibility with people (including myself). Now add this to the fact that the IACHR's executive secretary is a mexican human rights advocate linked to the left political party ruling Mexico City (PRD), that the pro-government press has accused him of using this conflict for his political gain. Ok all of that may or may not be true, but I fail to see how this changes the fundamental question of whether there was a coverup or not. Because if there was, intentional or not, then would like to direct your attention to the fact that Mexico has reached the point where the Federal Government is implicated in a mass-murder of protesting students. It doesn't need to have to be the truth, but so far everything you're saying points out that the Government isn't convincing anyone with its narrative. Not even you by the sound of it, even though you're on their side politically. And I'd also like note that no matter what happens, every atrocity and injustice that the Government walks away from without anyone paying the price, every time the chance grows that it'll be the last one to walk away from. So uh, take care? 
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Oct 28, 2016 22:04
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So this is like Mexico's Benghazi? EDIT: Except, you know, a real coverup Redrum and Coke fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Oct 29, 2016 |
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Oct 29, 2016 03:06
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 im the olavo tem razao.
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Oct 30, 2016 03:36
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Magrov posted:
Something similar happened in Serbia recently. In the case of Serbia, they do hate the Clinton for the bombings... What's the Brazilian reason?
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Oct 30, 2016 05:05
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Non Serviam posted:Something similar happened in Serbia recently. We have the worst, proudest reactionaries in the globe, by a wide margin, and they are ridiculously empowered now that they basically rule the place. Reminder? Olavo the Carvalho published a piece on a major magazine, "A Origem dos Atentados", right after the attacks of 9-11. He argued that it was obviously an attack by russian communists meant as the vanguard assault of the new bolshevik global invasion. He kept being published without break for years after that, and now is a hot-ticket author despite having only grown more unhinged since.
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Oct 30, 2016 05:21
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Olavo de Carvalho also claimed that you can live without a brain, that chimpanzee fetuses are genetically identical to human fetuses, that pepsi cola contains human fetuses, that Bill Clinton is a Chinese spy, that the law of inertia is false and so on... As for stuff like this protest, part of the mutt complex that affects a lot of Brazil is this extreme desire to belong in the US. Note not only the absurdity of protesting in favor of Trump in Brazil, but with signs in English and some people giving speeches in broken English.
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Oct 30, 2016 07:06
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joepinetree posted:Olavo de Carvalho also claimed that you can live without a brain, that chimpanzee fetuses are genetically identical to human fetuses, that pepsi cola contains human fetuses, that Bill Clinton is a Chinese spy, that the law of inertia is false and so on... Yeah this is why I as a religious person say; your country needs a Robbespierre.
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Oct 30, 2016 11:27
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joepinetree posted:Olavo de Carvalho also claimed that you can live without a brain
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Oct 30, 2016 12:36
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imagine if the entire republican party considered alex jones one of its biggest intelectuals. that's the brazillian right wing
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Oct 31, 2016 01:16
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Mans posted:imagine if the entire republican party considered alex jones one of its biggest intelectuals. Yeah, the way things are going, the US is only behind by a couple of years. Slavery permanently undermined the future of both political cultures.
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Oct 31, 2016 02:11
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Mans posted:imagine if the entire republican party considered alex jones one of its biggest intelectuals. The thing with Olavo de Carvalho compared to Alex Jones is that he SOUNDS reasonable. Alex Jones sounds obviously crazy. Olavo de Carvalho has a way with words and is a good mimic of an "intellectual". But then you see him try to debunk heliocentrism and you go "uhh..." I don't think he's representative of the brazilian right wing though. He's too much of a weird figure. Symbolic Butt fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 02:48
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Mans posted:imagine if the entire republican party considered alex jones one of its biggest intelectuals. We're close. Give it a couple years.
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Oct 31, 2016 03:23
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Best Friends posted:We're close. Give it a couple years. Considering that Alex Jones, David Icke and Putin are now the dears of a growing sector.. Yeah, just a couple of months.
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Oct 31, 2016 04:58
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The "intelectual representatives" of the Brazilian right are more guys like Reinaldo de Azevedo, Diogo Mainardi, Rodrigo Constantino and Kim Kataguiri. Olavão is more our alt-right alongside the Bolsonaros, they don't get THAT much traction from semi-rational people and are real easy to burn. Not that the other guys are GOOD or know what they're talking about, but they're less outright insane and have that glossy "well-read entrepreneur" veneer that our Southeast likes so much.
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Oct 31, 2016 05:12
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Dias posted:The "intelectual representatives" of the Brazilian right are more guys like Reinaldo de Azevedo, Diogo Mainardi, Rodrigo Constantino and Kim Kataguiri. Olavão is more our alt-right alongside the Bolsonaros, they don't get THAT much traction from semi-rational people and are real easy to burn. Not that the other guys are GOOD or know what they're talking about, but they're less outright insane and have that glossy "well-read entrepreneur" veneer that our Southeast likes so much. I'll give you the first two, but Constantino and Kataguiri are borderline cases at best. Pretty sure Constantino has been in constant meltdown mode since Veja fired him.
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Oct 31, 2016 05:27
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I think that except for Mainardi (maybe I should just put the entire Manhattan Connection desk here?) they're all bordering on outright stupidity, but they can pass off as in-the-know better than good ol' Olavão. Constantino is actually a pretty good representation of our middle-aged right: he's got a USA fetish, is very anti-PT/"communism" and into the economical side of libertarianism, but he doesn't cross into the ancap line or supports individual liberties - he just doesn't wanna pay taxes. Dude wrote a blog post decrying Trump as a Republican choice and supporting Ted Cruz, for instance.
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Oct 31, 2016 05:38
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The right / left divide of America is quite strange for other countries. In Chile, for example, the right wing would be pretty close to American Democrats in many regards (economic, not sociological or moral) . Hell, a lot of measures that Randian Republicans would call "pure socialism" were enacted under Pinochet. American politics are insane, is what I'm saying. Edit. The "pulling yourself up by the bootstraps" is not so common, I think.
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Oct 31, 2016 05:42
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Non Serviam posted:The right / left divide of America is quite strange for other countries. I remember researching and finding out that it was Pinochet who started Bolsa Familia type policies.
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Oct 31, 2016 06:37
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In Brazil you can't really discuss if political parties are to the right or the left of American parties in any easy way. At the level of discourse, Brazilian politics would seem to be very economically left, socially right wing. Evangelical pastors will get elected mayors of major cities by promising more spending on education. I live in the US but I listen to Brazilian radio broadcasts during soccer matches, and pretty much all political parties were promising some variation of expanding education and healthcare policies. All political parties claim to support social programs as well. But then, when you see what actually comes out, Brazilian politics is pretty much rent seeking by the rich. One third of Brazilian inequality comes from the state itself: http://www.en.ipea.gov.br/agencia/images/stories/PDFs/TDs/td_1844.pdf Because taxes are regressive and a substantial amount of government money goes to high level government employees (judges in Brazil are paid more than their US counterparts, even before adjusting for cost of living). And yet whenever PT mentioned creating a new income tax bracket for high earners or spending more on Bolsa Familia it would get called socialist.
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Oct 31, 2016 15:57
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joepinetree posted:Because taxes are regressive and a substantial amount of government money goes to high level government employees (judges in Brazil are paid more than their US counterparts, even before adjusting for cost of living). Judges are the most privileged class in the country hands down. The lowest possible salary for them is a meagre 20 thousand reais (6200 dollars) but this doesn't count the several benefits they receive such as living/transportation/healthcare/food expenses which may in some cases increase it to a hundred thousand a month. And of course that's not counting the money you can get by selling sentences, up to seventy thousand reais each.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:42
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This is sounding eerily familiar to me.... https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...eacb_story.html quote:House Republicans are already preparing for ‘years’ of investigations of Clinton
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Nov 1, 2016 02:32
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Honestly, it is just easier to head an investigation when you've already decided on a verdict.
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Nov 1, 2016 02:39
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And it's even easier when you are investigating Hillary.
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Nov 1, 2016 03:45
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Polidoro posted:And it's even easier when you are investigating Hillary. Rest assured, this will be the 156th time we have wasted taxpayer money on frivolous Clinton investigations, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
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Nov 1, 2016 17:11
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Hillary did a lot of good for Latin America, good to see this thtead rallyig behind her lmao
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Nov 1, 2016 17:15
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Hillary did a lot of good for Latin America, good to see this thtead rallyig behind her lmao I agree, Pol Pot was right about Hillary.
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Nov 1, 2016 17:38
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Indeed she should be sent to work on a farm just like the Haitians that her state department wanted to keep working for 10 cents a day.
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Nov 1, 2016 18:14
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Indeed she should be sent to work on a farm just like the Haitians that her state department wanted to keep working for 10 cents a day. You know, since you said you'd kill and die for the cause, starting your HRC work camp might be just a plane ride away. You can probably bring your anime, and a laptop to play your mmorpgs on the way there, don't worry. I hope the revolution continues to be cozy there, in your mom's basement.
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Nov 1, 2016 23:17
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Non Serviam posted:You know, since you said you'd kill and die for the cause, starting your HRC work camp might be just a plane ride away. Lmao of course the Colombian is a bootlicker for gringos. They ain't gonna let you past the wall to sell powder, hombre.
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Nov 1, 2016 23:25
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Lmao of course the Colombian is a bootlicker for gringos. They ain't gonna let you past the wall to sell powder, hombre. I'm not Colombian, but good try. What animes are you watching nowadays comandante?
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Nov 1, 2016 23:33
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Speaking of Hillary, how was that Honduras government that was overthrown and the one that replaced it?
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Nov 1, 2016 23:40
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Non Serviam posted:I'm not Colombian, but good try. *Puts hands on temple* Lemme try again. Cuban expat. Southern Brazilian/Argentinean who claims to be true German aryan. A gringo.
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Nov 1, 2016 23:45
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punk rebel ecks posted:Speaking of Hillary, how was that Honduras government that was overthrown and the one that replaced it? The guy who got booted was the leader of the one big center right party, and he got replaced by the other big center right party. The only major leftish party hasn't been in power in a long time.
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Nov 1, 2016 23:49
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:*Puts hands on temple* Lemme try again. Cuban expat. Southern Brazilian/Argentinean who claims to be true German aryan. A gringo. You are doing really well in this thread. Keep going dude, you're on a roll. Make sure everyone knows you're a keyboard warrior and a sociopath.
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Nov 2, 2016 00:04
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I feel criticizing USA presidents for interfering in Latin American politics is like criticizing Mexican immigrants for celebrating Cinco de Mayo: it's part of their cultural baggage and we should be accepting of their traditions. It's not like we aren't used to it by now.
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Nov 2, 2016 00:28
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Dias posted:I feel criticizing USA presidents for interfering in Latin American politics is like criticizing Mexican immigrants for celebrating Cinco de Mayo: it's part of their cultural baggage and we should be accepting of their traditions. It's not like we aren't used to it by now. I think that their interest in Latin America is dwindling though.
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Nov 2, 2016 01:15
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Dias posted:I feel criticizing USA presidents for interfering in Latin American politics is like criticizing Mexican immigrants for celebrating Cinco de Mayo: it's part of their cultural baggage and we should be accepting of their traditions. It's not like we aren't used to it by now. Donald Trump is gonna build the wall not to protect him and his people from us, but to protect us from them and hell, I support that #MAGA.
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Nov 2, 2016 01:26
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 The previous Brazilian right winger USA bootlicker talk reminded me of this post by Constantino: it reads: "Tell me if this isn't a nation that deserves to celebrate 240 years of independence and freedom. In the lamborghino convertible, a black man enjoying his woman in peace and quiet, without the crying of being an "oppressed victim" and without fear of robbery. while the old guy enjoys his Harley Davidson without wearing a helmet, since it is not mandatory here. The streets are full of people wearing patriotic clothes, and there are American flags everywhere." joepinetree fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Nov 2, 2016 |
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Nov 2, 2016 02:22
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Yeah, he's the ur-USA bootlicker, a perfect representative for our non-religious right. edit: this is unrelated but I feel like I should share its beauty with you: https://twitter.com/sirdarthfranco/status/793219473251635200 Dias fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Nov 2, 2016 |
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Nov 2, 2016 03:08
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