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Sorry to go off-topic but is anyone else getting a really strong 'night before Brexit' vibe from the US presidential election?
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Oct 30, 2016 22:28
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No.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:28
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TinTower posted:Also, the Daily Mail are wanting to ban the sick filth of… letting kids know trans people exist? the comments are the best
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Oct 30, 2016 22:29
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Pissflaps posted:Sorry to go off-topic but is anyone else getting a really strong 'night before Brexit' vibe from the US presidential election? In Nate Silver we trust.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:31
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The Brexit win was because a considerable amount of people who had previously said they would vote Remain, voted Leave on the night. Most of these no longer know why. Which is also why the 52% number is pointless. There's no way 52% still think Brexit is a good idea.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:33
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I dunno all feels really similar to me. A complacent vocal minority (only revealed to be a minority after the fact of course), a groundswell of people unhappy with their lot, narrowing polls, a teflon campaign from the 'anti establishment' side, a febrile polling atmosphere. Then the Clinton campaign who just can't pull away and keeps getting bogged down in this email stuff. I think it's all up for grabs.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:36
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Pissflaps posted:A complacent vocal minority (only revealed to be a minority after the fact of course)
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Oct 30, 2016 22:37
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Steve2911 posted:Off topic but we weren't the minority. I don't understand.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:38
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American polling has historically been a lot better than UK polling. I don't think the shy tory effect is as strong, or perhaps rather that polls already account for it.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:39
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Pissflaps posted:Sorry to go off-topic but is anyone else getting a really strong 'night before Brexit' vibe from the US presidential election? in more local election news - UKIP have endorsed Goldsmith for the Richmond by-election. so if as is likely he wins, he'll unofficially be UKIP's second MP. might not be too chuffed about that. i don't understand why he's not being torn into over how stupid this by-election is. resigning the whip I can understand, if he really feels he can't just rebel from the backbenches but stay with the party otherwise. if he gets his intended outcome and wins the election it'll make no difference to parliament - since his opposition to Heathrow was clearly stated before the general election. and he'll continue to follow the Tory line on other matters. but thousands out of the public purse will have been wasted on running the thing. the exercise can't be anything but an ego trip for Goldmith's own benefit. Cerv fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Oct 30, 2016 |
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Oct 30, 2016 22:40
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Pissflaps posted:I don't understand. The majority of the UK didn't vote/didn't want to leave.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:42
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Steve2911 posted:The majority of the UK didn't vote/didn't want to leave. Well that's true enough. Substitute Pissflaps posted:A complacent vocal minority (only revealed to be a minority after the fact of course) with Pissflaps posted:A complacent vocal minority of voters(only revealed to be a minority of voters after the fact of course) and we'll all be happy.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:44
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Steve2911 posted:The majority of the UK didn't vote/didn't want to leave. you can equally say the majority didn't vote to stay. after any ballot people try to count abstentions as secretly being on their side, and it never makes an ounce of sense.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:44
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Cerv posted:you can equally say the majority didn't vote to stay. I think, when presenting people with a Status Quo/Change referendum, it's valid to point out that only x% of people were moved to vote for the thing, leaving the rest either not voting, or voting against. Not that it offers much more than cold comfort to the Status Quo losers in the even of a Change vote, but it does indicate that the argument wasn't so well received as the vote would suggest.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:46
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Cerv posted:i'm trying not to think about it I assume the idea was "show the lack of support for the expansion in his constituency" but as you say, it's hardly news that Goldsmith opposes Heathrow expansion, anymore than it's news that Goldsmith is anti-EU. Can't disagree about it being a total waste of public money though.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:46
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Cerv posted:you can equally say the majority didn't vote to stay. It was a vote to take action or take no action. Around 37% of the voting population voted to take action, and around 35% voted to take no action. You could say the other 28% of the voting population didn't know or care. You can argue that at least some didn't want to leave, but you can't really argue that they did. The current system takes their abstention/indecision/apathy and it's used as an excuse to take direct action. Which is loving nonsense.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:55
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This is why referendums on issues like this should include a supermajority requirement.
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Oct 30, 2016 22:56
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This is actually why referendums are terrible ideas, except referendums for things I want to happen like Scottish independence or full communism.
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Oct 30, 2016 23:06
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Everyone who I've seen freaking out about the outcome of the US election is only looking at national head-to-head polls which are basically meaningless. If you look at individual state polls Trump has to win Florida, North Carolina, Nevada, Ohio, Iowa, Arizona and New Hampshire, all of which are leaning Democratic at best, tossups at worst. The Democrats are also doing better than usual in early voting and Hillary's GOTV machine is far superior to Trump's (ie it exists). It's not impossible for Trump to win, but barring some major scandal coming out and gaining traction in the next week he's essentially done.
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Oct 30, 2016 23:15
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Referendums are terrible because if the public was trusted to run the country we wouldn't have a government.
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Oct 30, 2016 23:18
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Pissflaps posted:Sorry to go off-topic but is anyone else getting a really strong 'night before Brexit' vibe from the US presidential election? I am, but it's not based on any rational thing. Pure gut feeling.
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Oct 30, 2016 23:19
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It'd be nice if we had a good government that made good choices. Then we wouldn't need to leave decisions to the terrible public.
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Oct 30, 2016 23:20
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Pissflaps posted:I dunno all feels really similar to me. A complacent vocal minority (only revealed to be a minority after the fact of course), a groundswell of people unhappy with their lot, narrowing polls, a teflon campaign from the 'anti establishment' side, a febrile polling atmosphere. Just pretend he's Corbyn
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Oct 30, 2016 23:21
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nothing to seehere posted:I would say in the UK racism is more nationalistic in tone than outright racist. A Polish person make look the same, but if he speaks Polish he's a forringer and must be hated, but he can look exactly the same but be a working class lad and be fine. Honestly, I can pick a Polish person out of a line by sight most of the time. That's mostly because I socialise often with Polish people, though - an actual racist probably couldn't do it. Going back a couple of pages, what did Lily Allen do apart from insult her brother? I don't read the tabloids and give zero shits about celebrity gossip.
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Oct 30, 2016 23:49
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Jedit posted:Going back a couple of pages, what did Lily Allen do apart from insult her brother? I don't read the tabloids and give zero shits about celebrity gossip. She empathised with refugees and implicated this dumb terrible country in their plight.
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Oct 30, 2016 23:53
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Pissflaps posted:Sorry to go off-topic but is anyone else getting a really strong 'night before Brexit' vibe from the US presidential election? I get what you mean. The assumption of the easy win for the
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Oct 31, 2016 00:46
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Hi, American here. I've just got a question: What, if anything, can Corbyn do to try to ensure a Labour victory in the next General Election?
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Oct 31, 2016 02:06
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thetoughestbean posted:Hi, American here. I've just got a question: What, if anything, can Corbyn do to try to ensure a Labour victory in the next General Election? Encourage people to vote Labour through sound policy and faith in their fellow men
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Oct 31, 2016 02:08
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Failing that, kill an asylum seeker live on tv.
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Oct 31, 2016 03:11
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thetoughestbean posted:Hi, American here. I've just got a question: What, if anything, can Corbyn do to try to ensure a Labour victory in the next General Election? Ensure it? Go further right than the Tories.
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Oct 31, 2016 03:24
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Nissan was convinced to stay in the UK with a promise of no tariffs or extra bureaucratic burdens on the car industry after Brexit, the business secretary has finally revealed, prompting fears that sector-by-sector deals could cost the taxpayer “colossal amounts of money”. Greg Clark caved in after four days of pressure in an interview on Sunday to reveal some details of how the government convinced the Japanese manufacturer to produce a fleet of new vehicles at its Sunderland plant. The Tory minister said he wrote to Nissan with a series of four assurances as he went “all out” to allay concerns about Brexit, promising that the government was confident of securing a deal that would keep the car industry competitive. “Our intention, our negotiating remit, when it comes to the discussions with our European partners, is to have a constructive dialogue and look for the common interest here,” Clark told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show. “Our objective would be to ensure we have continued access to the markets in Europe and vice versa without tariffs and bureaucratic impediments, and that is how we will approach those negotiations.” He suggested that this applied to the car industry in general and possibly to other major sectors of UK business. That suggests No 10 is seeking a free trade relationship for the automotive industry that at least brings benefits similar to membership of the single market and customs union. Theresa May has however said she wants greater immigration controls and freedom from the oversight of the European court of justice – a combination that Brussels politicians have repeatedly said is unachievable. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/30/nissans-post-brexit-deal-could-lead-to-colossal-bills-for-taxpayers
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Oct 31, 2016 03:25
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Something has to break soon, right? Right? 
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Oct 31, 2016 04:05
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thetoughestbean posted:Hi, American here. I've just got a question: What, if anything, can Corbyn do to try to ensure a Labour victory in the next General Election? Resign.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:53
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Pissflaps posted:Resign. Yes resigning after Brexit, a pathetic coup and a landslide election win is a good idea yes.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:04
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forkboy84 posted:I assume the idea was "show the lack of support for the expansion in his constituency" but as you say, it's hardly news that Goldsmith opposes Heathrow expansion, anymore than it's news that Goldsmith is anti-EU. Can't disagree about it being a total waste of public money though. If that's the idea he might as well have a referendum over whether the people of Richmond think water is wet.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:06
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Steve2911 posted:Yes resigning after Brexit, a pathetic coup and a landslide election win is a good idea yes. And yet there is no other possible answer to that question.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:09
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Pissflaps posted:And yet there is no other possible answer to that question. It's not a correct answer though. Resigning won't 'ensure' a win any more than staying in the position he was voted into. Given the current state of the country and media, there's no way to ensure a win.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:12
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Steve2911 posted:It's not a correct answer though. Resigning won't 'ensure' a win any more than staying in the position he was voted into. Read the question again. It's not what would ensure, it's what can he try to do to ensure. My answer remains the only possible one.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:18
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Pissflaps posted:Read the question again. It's not what would ensure, it's what can he try to do to ensure. Not true. WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Failing that, kill an asylum seeker live on tv.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:20
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Regarde Aduck posted:Referendums are terrible because if the public was trusted to run the country we wouldn't have a government. Malatesta posted:Man is not perfect, agreed. But this is one reason more, perhaps the strongest reason, for not giving anyone the means to “put the brakes on individual freedom”.
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Oct 31, 2016 09:25
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