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Edmund Lava posted:This is what I hate about the stupid argument that "at least it's out in the open now". Eliminating this bigotry was never really a realistic goal, buy shaming bigots into keeping heir mouths shut and at least acting civil is a step forward. I'm not sure minorities in this country are comforted by the brazen displays of white nationalism being displayed out in the open, even if they knew full well that poo poo was pervasive. As a white person who doesn't have this stuff personally affect me on a daily basis I honestly don't know what's worse. Open displays of bigotry are really, really bad and the stories of Hispanic children being harassed since Trump has made open bigotry cool and acceptable make me sick. On the other hand you have Chief Justice John Roberts quietly pursuing his thirty year long dream to undo the VRA as a certainly Not Racist moderate Republican along with certainly Not Racist Scalia (who apparently never gave a black student higher than a C when he taught law) talking poo poo about affirmative action while the rest of the Not Racist How Dare You Infer That party tries to undo civil rights law whenever they can because they are just concerned with voter fraud and celebrates cops that shoot black people and get off because racism was solved and we didn't have to worry about it. I'd like to think that they can't hide behind plausible deniability anymore but in my heart I know that if Trump loses, the day after the country is going to act like everyone defeated the evil racist and everything is fine again. I would guess on a personal level the open hatred is much worse but letting the racism fester, pretending it's gone, and work it's way in the system because if you say something is bigoted, you're just playing the race card is terrible too. It's just really awful. 
Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 13:36
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Deified Data posted:Should I vote early on my day off or take an hour off work to do it Tuesday... Permanent early voting with a mail in ballot is by far the best thing about Arizona politically. That and the archaeological resource protection lobbying organizations. The only two good things really... Edit: Oh and loving Raul Grijalva.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:36
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WeAreTheRomans posted:why not both? Soros only paid me for one.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:37
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Cimber posted:Anyone else think this red october surprise is a lot of nothing? I doubt anything will come out of it either. It seems like sex stuff is the only thing with any bite in depressing R enthusiasm. I think what we're seeing is a gazillion news stories coming out, that have been in the works for a while (maybe as soon as Trump secured the nomination) that need to get kicked out the door while they have any relevancy left. Odds are most of them will be anti-Trump. Edit: Ryan on record voting Trump: https://twitter.com/WaPoSean/status/793433234675798016 If there is a God, please let the video from that interview be played many many times over the next 20 years. Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 13:43
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Antti posted:I doubt anything will come out of it either. It seems like sex stuff is the only thing with any bite in depressing R enthusiasm. A torrent of anti-Trump stories would be precisely what would help, mind. We want every R who waited for Tuesday to be like 'Oh man, can I really go for this guy'. And/or the possibility of Trump going nuts.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:48
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Night10194 posted:A torrent of anti-Trump stories would be precisely what would help, mind. We want every R who waited for Tuesday to be like 'Oh man, can I really go for this guy'. Yeah, but the EMAILS! thing sucked oxygen out for a while, we'll see how it shakes out. Maybe some in the media take a long hard look at themselves and wonder whether EMAILS! was really worth six columns on the front page of the NYT ten days before the election.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:51
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The response in the media to any Republican saying literally anything about women's, minority, etc issues until they die is "did you vote for Trump?" Even if they want to hide behind their SCOTUS cowardice excuse it means they were willing to vote for the outed sex offender racist and have no sort of cover to pretend that they just didn't know. Ryan's place in the history books should be "man who supported white supremacist because he feared for his job."
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Nov 1, 2016 13:52
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Antti posted:Yeah, but the EMAILS! thing sucked oxygen out for a while, we'll see how it shakes out. Maybe some in the media take a long hard look at themselves and wonder whether EMAILS! was really worth six columns on the front page of the NYT ten days before the election. You'd have to give them something else to focus on, and right now there's nothing. The Russia stuff is too thorny, vague, and uninteresting to the general public to hold up on the front pages for more than a day or so.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:53
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Well if we were going to get an oppo bomb it'd be this morning at the latest. I guess there's nothing then. Nothing left to do but wait out the clock and hope our lead holds.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:54
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Radish posted:The response in the media to any Republican saying literally anything about women's, minority, etc issues until they die is "did you vote for Trump?" Even if they want to hide behind their SCOTUS cowardice excuse it means they were willing to vote for the outed sex offender racist and have no sort of cover to pretend that they just didn't know. I dont expect this will have the desired effect. Resistance to the racism shaming squad being so pervasive in the last few years is what fueled trumps popularity to begin with, so i dont expect trumpists to hide it. Time will tell if this is sustainable as a social movement, but its part of american politics now for at least the next few years. MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 13:55
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Radish posted:The response in the media to any Republican saying literally anything about women's, minority, etc issues until they die is "did you vote for Trump?" Even if they want to hide behind their SCOTUS cowardice excuse it means they were willing to vote for the outed sex offender racist and have no sort of cover to pretend that they just didn't know. Four years from now no one will remember having voted for Trump.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:56
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Four years from now no one will remember having voted for Trump. Curiously I think this will be true even if he somehow wins.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:56
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KiteAuraan posted:Is it the fate of all old people to get hateful as gently caress as they get older? I swear my grandpa wasn't always so bigoted towards Muslims, black people, immigrants and people speaking a non-English language in public. But over the past year he has gotten really pissy about it and really openly hateful. It seemed to start getting worse with Obama, wherein he called him a "porch monkey" in front of of my Dominican Aunt and has just gotten worse, peaking this year. Part of it seems to be a slide into dementia and the anger that comes with that, but part of it also just seems to be building hate. I also hear my grandma saying all sorts of snide poo poo about Mexicans and Hispanics in general (she was born in Panama, to a Panamanian mother) and also "immigrants" speaking "some Arabic" in public. gently caress even my mom is going on about BLM and poo poo.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:56
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Can someone explain NC early voting to me? I keep reading that D are in good shape there, and in fact, they're leading EV by a huge margin. However, they're below 3-4% compared to same day 2012, while R are up 8-9%; and R ended up winning NC. So why is NC considered in a good D position? Is it because there's a huge increase in Unaffiliated? Is it cause many were self-reporting D in 2012 but actually voting R since Carter? See: https://twitter.com/ElectProject/status/793429149129990144 https://twitter.com/ElectProject/status/793428521985028097 Not arzying, just genuinely curious.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:56
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Radish posted:Yeah that poo poo is a cancer and really warps people's brains since it's just a stream of hate and fear. If it's all you are exposed to it's going to start amping up any sort of preexisting bias. Then add in Trump leading the regular media around by the nose and making White Nationalism a legitimate position you can argue on cable news since "both sides are equally valid" and people are going to start saying publicly what they have been holding back. The problem is that there is a fuckton of money to be made off of this fearmongering. Not just in the news industry but there are tons of speakers that just tour the entire country continuously warning of the evil horrible things that will happen (Buy my book to find out more! Pay me to come back for a longer speech to really go into the details!). It used to be the darn Mexicans but now Muslims and Sharia law are the big money makers. This American Life (which I normally can't stand) actually had a good story this weekend about how the hate can take over a town. quote:Bobby (attending a speech by a tea party backed challenger to the local congressman) She told this imaginary story to everyone, and it was just-- it was an older crowd, and so it was "Imagine your granddaughter comes home now one day from school and she says, 'you know, grandma, I'm in love with my new boyfriend. He's right here.' He's little Muhammad." And I'm immediately like-- and then she went on, saying, "Well, what happens if they fall in love and they get married? Are they going to have a Christian wedding or are they going to have a Muslim wedding?" And the people there were like, "Oh my god, what kind of wedding would they have?"
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Nov 1, 2016 13:57
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Deified Data posted:Well if we were going to get an oppo bomb it'd be this morning at the latest. I guess there's nothing then. Nothing left to do but wait out the clock and hope our lead holds. It'll hold my friend.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:57
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Radish posted:The response in the media to any Republican saying literally anything about women's, minority, etc issues until they die is "did you vote for Trump?"
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Nov 1, 2016 13:57
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Shifty Pony posted:The problem is that there is a fuckton of money to be made off of this fearmongering. Not just in the news industry but there are tons of speakers that just tour the entire country continuously warning of the evil horrible things that will happen (Buy my book to find out more! Pay me to come back for a longer speech to really go into the details!). It used to be the darn Mexicans but now Muslims and Sharia law are the big money makers. I mean, just look at how much the networks have made on this election. And they did it by basically taking up the advertising slack for the Trump campaign. Every day they can sell the race as competitive is another day that both sides will tune in enormously.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:59
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Radish posted:As a white person who doesn't have this stuff personally affect me on a daily basis I honestly don't know what's worse. Open displays of bigotry are really, really bad and the stories of Hispanic children being harassed since Trump has made open bigotry cool and acceptable make me sick. On the other hand you have Chief Justice John Roberts quietly pursuing his thirty year long dream to undo the VRA as a certainly Not Racist moderate Republican along with certainly Not Racist Scalia (who apparently never gave a black student higher than a C when he taught law) talking poo poo about affirmative action while the rest of the Not Racist How Dare You Infer That party tries to undo civil rights law whenever they can because they are just concerned with voter fraud and celebrates cops that shoot black people and get off because racism was solved and we didn't have to worry about it. I'd like to think that they can't hide behind plausible deniability anymore but in my heart I know that if Trump loses, the day after the country is going to act like everyone defeated the evil racist and everything is fine again. The way I see it you aren't going to change people's heart, especially older folk. The people who protested the CRA didn't just vanish in the 70s, but they couldn't scream racial slurs anymore and that language died down. As a result the next generation, and the generation that followed are more tolerant. We were getting there, slowly, and maybe too slowly for some, but progress was being made. I'm just afraid this new boldness of white nationalism is just going to cause us to have to roll the whole boulder back up the hill. And of course if there was some solution to make people magically not racist/homophobic/xenophobic I'd take it. For now though shaming them into behaving is the best tool we have. Edmund Lava fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 13:59
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MattD1zzl3 posted:I dont expect this will have the desired effect. Resistance to the racism shaming squad being do purvasive in the last few years is what fueled trumps popularity to begin with, so i dont expect trumpists to hide it. Time will tell if this is sustainable as a social movement, but its part of american politics now for at least the next few years. What fueled Trump is right wing politicians along with their allies in the media creating an alternate reality where Democrats were literally trying to destroy white America and everything it stood for while murdering the the unborn so they could be shoveled into furnaces to heat buildings. White people being called out as racists has been politically incorrect and happened much less frequently with less horrible consequences than talk radio wanted their listeners to believe. The myth that Trump supporters are white people people made to feel shame for their culture (of racism) is as much nonsense as them being ordinary Americans simply unhappy with the economy. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Four years from now no one will remember having voted for Trump. "Hillary Clinton ran unopposed"
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Nov 1, 2016 14:01
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canepazzo posted:Can someone explain NC early voting to me? I keep reading that D are in good shape there, and in fact, they're leading EV by a huge margin. However, they're below 3-4% compared to same day 2012, while R are up 8-9%; and R ended up winning NC. So why is NC considered in a good D position? Is it because there's a huge increase in Unaffiliated? Is it cause many were self-reporting D in 2012 but actually voting R since Carter? NY Times explains it well http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/upshot/north-carolina-early-vote-tracker.html
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Nov 1, 2016 14:01
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canepazzo posted:Can someone explain NC early voting to me? I keep reading that D are in good shape there, and in fact, they're leading EV by a huge margin. However, they're below 3-4% compared to same day 2012, while R are up 8-9%; and R ended up winning NC. So why is NC considered in a good D position? Is it because there's a huge increase in Unaffiliated? Is it cause many were self-reporting D in 2012 but actually voting R since Carter? Republicans gutted the first couple weeks of early voting hours. Things should pick up.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Four years from now no one will remember having voted for Trump. https://twitter.com/foxandfriends/status/793435312449990656 RYAN: "Yes, that was in 2012 obviously, I voted for elder statesman Mitt Romney."
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Nov 1, 2016 14:04
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Antti posted:That was a legit close election without a lot of undecideds though! Presidents are selected, not elected. By and large, Americans don't like one party dominance within all three branches of government.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:05
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Night10194 posted:Already doing it. Honestly, right after the email thing re-broke, it became too much for me until ... well, this morning.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:05
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Islam is the Lite Rock FM posted:It'll hold my friend. I am an unmovable rock from now until the 8th.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:06
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Antti posted:https://twitter.com/foxandfriends/status/793435312449990656 Best thing is he actually said "I voted for our nominee", not "I voted for Trump". Voldetrump, he who should not be named.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:05
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Ugh. Stuff like this is why I want Single Transferable Vote or something; it'd be much harder to gerrymander a district that has to elect five-ten representatives, rather than just one. (Also, fairer representation, having IRV built into it, etc.) Sadly that's a pipe dream for the foreseeable future, so for now we just have to hope Obama's crusade against gerrymandering is successful. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 14:06
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dwarf74 posted:Same for my wife. Her doc has specifically advised her not to talk about politics. It's really hard to look away when you're anxious, though. At the same time, all this absolute terror about a possible Trump victory kinda reassures me he won't win. If *I'm* scared, and I'm a white, straight, christian male from an upper class family, I don't doubt the people who'd actually be in his crosshairs are turning out hard.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:08
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What is Obama's plan, exactly, to fight gerrymandering? Just go balls-out to make sure 2020 is a Democratic wave, something that's basically impossible to guarantee because wave elections are usually a result of external factors? Court challenges? Grassroots advocacy? I'm hugely skeptical that a tidal shift can be achieved before the next census election, especially if the next 4 years are another 4 years of gridlock.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:09
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Antti posted:https://twitter.com/foxandfriends/status/793435312449990656
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Nov 1, 2016 14:09
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KiteAuraan posted:Is it the fate of all old people to get hateful as gently caress as they get older? I swear my grandpa wasn't always so bigoted towards Muslims, black people, immigrants and people speaking a non-English language in public. But over the past year he has gotten really pissy about it and really openly hateful. It seemed to start getting worse with Obama, wherein he called him a "porch monkey" in front of of my Dominican Aunt and has just gotten worse, peaking this year. Part of it seems to be a slide into dementia and the anger that comes with that, but part of it also just seems to be building hate. I also hear my grandma saying all sorts of snide poo poo about Mexicans and Hispanics in general (she was born in Panama, to a Panamanian mother) and also "immigrants" speaking "some Arabic" in public. gently caress even my mom is going on about BLM and poo poo. I'm not sure if my parents are getting worse about race as they get older, or if I'm just aware enough to notice it now. They definitely don't like Black Lives Matter, and my dad is always eager to jump on the "no angel" bandwagon for every new police shooting of an unarmed black person that comes out. I think I'm getting through to my mom about Black Lives Matter by appealing to her compassion and pointing out that, no, they're not saying black lives matter more than yours, they want a society that acts as though black lives matter less than others to change, but it's slow progress. And neither is very comfortable about Muslims, though they stop short of outright hateful. Meanwhile they're both all-in on LGBT rights (transgender included), extremely pro-union, and my mom's struggles with insurance are making her openly long for single payer (my dad keeps falling back on "but there are long waits for doctors in Canada!" argument), so man, I dunno. Now, my grandma, hoo boy... one time she went on a little mini-rant about how all those n-words (she didn't self-censor like me) ruined Cleveland, and I think she thinks Steve Harvey has some kind of dirt on the people at every television network because why else would a black guy be on that many shows? And my late grandpa, when Obama was elected, once said to my dad, "If you're not careful, one day a black guy might be your boss!" and to my dad's credit he was like, "...so?"
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Nov 1, 2016 14:11
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the Hillary campaign are doing a terrible job. They have this juggernaut operation with hundreds of staff, a huge resource advantage, are going up against an openly racist inattentive marigold man child armed with Fred Durst's hat stash, and they are doing worse than Obama did in 2012. Maybe they should have spent less money running political ad film school, and more money on registering people and getting them out to vote. Spending the last 10 days on the back foot, trying to defend and deflect email stories is not a situation a prepared campaign would be in right now - and all of this should have been anticipated. If it wasn't Comey, it would be Assange releasing doctored materials if he has nothing else. Not having any plan to fire up the base in the event of an October surprise is shameful, and it's clear Hillary would be getting massacred by any other Republican right now. Honestly, she would be getting demolished by Trump if Trump had more competent people around him.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:13
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HannibalBarca posted:What is Obama's plan, exactly, to fight gerrymandering? Just go balls-out to make sure 2020 is a Democratic wave, something that's basically impossible to guarantee because wave elections are usually a result of external factors? Court challenges? Grassroots advocacy? I'm hugely skeptical that a tidal shift can be achieved before the next census election, especially if the next 4 years are another 4 years of gridlock. A dude on Keeping it 1600 talked about this. Basically they're going to look at every gerrymandering decision maker, figure out the best/most efficient way to win those seats, and then apply their resources where they can. This could include things like: State legislatures Attorney generals Governor races etc.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:13
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So I know the democrats are supposed to take a shellacking in 2018, but just how bad is it going to be? Is there any chance of them winning enough seats to fast track through an impeachment?
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Nov 1, 2016 14:13
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My parents' liberalism has only hardened as they've hit their 70s. I love 'em. 
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Nov 1, 2016 14:13
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Radish posted:"Hillary Clinton ran unopposed" I traveled back from the future and found this document: quote:Winners of Presidential Elections:
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Nov 1, 2016 14:14
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TyrantWD posted:Spending the last 10 days on the back foot, trying to defend and deflect email stories is not a situation a prepared campaign would be in right now How does one prepare for the Director of the FBI being a loving rear end in a top hat?
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Nov 1, 2016 14:14
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Spoondick posted:I traveled back from the future and found this document: I don't recognise that 2004 name, are you sure it's correct?
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Nov 1, 2016 14:14
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canepazzo posted:Can someone explain NC early voting to me? I keep reading that D are in good shape there, and in fact, they're leading EV by a huge margin. However, they're below 3-4% compared to same day 2012, while R are up 8-9%; and R ended up winning NC. So why is NC considered in a good D position? Is it because there's a huge increase in Unaffiliated? Is it cause many were self-reporting D in 2012 but actually voting R since Carter?
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