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Static Equilibrium posted:It kills Net Ready Eyes for no influence. Yog is going to win worlds and then immediately become unplayable. 4tman 4lyfe
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Oct 31, 2016 17:47
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CirclMastr posted:Even if Chief Slee did fire, 5 meat damage can't guarantee a kill. It's not, but it usually means that the Runner has to play the rest of the game (until she's trashed) without ever ending their turn with 4 or fewer cards in hand. Actually typing this out makes me wish there were some assets that couldn’t be trashed. Or I guess you could give them some huge trash cost of like 10 credits or something. I feel like assets do a great job of changing how the game is played, but they’re so difficult to protect and easy to get rid of. Obviously there needs to be some counterplay, but some permanent effects could definitely have some interesting gameplay implications. If Chief Slee couldn’t easily be trashed, it would have the effect where at first you need to be super careful not to hit an ETR or skip over subs, but THEN you need to be careful not to end your turn with too few cards in hand. That changes the gameplay in multiple interesting ways, and gives various pacing and changes over the course of the game, all in one card! If it had some difficult trash condition (need to run a few centrals before trashing, need to pay like 10-15 credits, etc), then it would ALSO give an additional “phase” of the game where the runner has the plan to try and hunt down and trash that asset to remove its limitations.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:55
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CodfishCartographer posted:The Gauntlet seems kind of iffy too. I guess it’s worth running if you don’t want to spend the influence on Desperado?? What? It's the awesomest 1 influence Shaper console: you get 2 MU for your dumb poo poo and get a bunch of HQ interfaces rolled into one 1-inf card.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:00
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CodfishCartographer posted:Top Hat could, in theory, be used to play the odds a bit better - if you just recently grabbed / missed an agenda off the top of R&D, you can expect the next one to appear a few cards down. . Please don't play with people who stack their deck.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:14
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CirclMastr posted:Weyland finally gets anti-AI ice, and true to form it's garbage. I always want to like Weyland stuff but at 10 credits (and a bad publicity?!), why am I not just playing Hadrian's Wall again? And why does Bulwark have two subroutines that say "The corp gains 2 credits. End the run."? That won't make the corp gain 4 credits! What the gently caress?
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Oct 31, 2016 18:25
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CodfishCartographer posted:It's not, but it usually means that the Runner has to play the rest of the game (until she's trashed) without ever ending their turn with 4 or fewer cards in hand. They've already got some good theme in place with Off The Grid, so an asset with an interesting effect and the HQ run requirement would be an interesting way to get some longevity.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:34
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Yithian posted:I always want to like Weyland stuff but at 10 credits (and a bad publicity?!), why am I not just playing Hadrian's Wall again? I think it's one of those things for Chief. After the first of the corp gains 2 credits , end the run, the 2nd one doesn't fire.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:38
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I was really forward to Fairchild 4. Damon why you tease us?
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Oct 31, 2016 18:41
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Yithian posted:And why does Bulwark have two subroutines that say "The corp gains 2 credits. End the run."? That won't make the corp gain 4 credits! What the gently caress? Apex / Endless Hunger defense. Because Bulwark is anti AI. Which is really cool. If only it was playable.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:52
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ZorajitZorajit posted:Apex / Endless Hunger defense. Because Bulwark is anti AI. Which is really cool. If only it was playable. Literally a 0-cost, non-illicit barrier (Resistor) does the same thing as this 10-cost Weyland garbo card for trash people. E: As does Hadrian's Wall with two advancements on it.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:00
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I like Top Hat. It gives Shapers a way to exploit an open R&D similar to Medium, and at 0 cost and non-unique, it also fuels Aesop's and Technical Writer and other Shaper bullshit. It also works nicely with a fresh Medium, though that's probably overkill for either faction. See 5th card, gain a counter, see 4th card, gain a counter, run again and see top three.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:03
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Hannibal Rex posted:I like Top Hat. It gives Shapers a way to exploit an open R&D similar to Medium, and at 0 cost and non-unique, it also fuels Aesop's and Technical Writer and other Shaper bullshit. It also works nicely with a fresh Medium, though that's probably overkill for either faction. See 5th card, gain a counter, see 4th card, gain a counter, run again and see top three. If you’re in a position where you can run R&D three times in a turn with a medium on the table, you’re probably already winning. It’s a shame, because there are so many fun strategies that could result from being able to run a billion times in a turn, except that you almost never can afford it.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:12
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Would top hat let you access a card if you made a patron run on R&D?
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Oct 31, 2016 19:15
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OhHiMaahk posted:Would top hat let you access a card if you made a patron run on R&D? Yes and no. You only get 1 “instead of accessing cards” effect per run, so you can trigger either Patron OR Top Hat. It could let you choose to not trigger Patron, if you decide you want to access R&D instead of drawing, but why would you choose R&D for Patron then?
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Oct 31, 2016 19:18
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I'm excited for Blockade Runner. Going to slot that in place of Mr Li in my Leela deck.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:24
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Edit: OK, I've changed my mind about the NBN barrier. It's possibly good in a Midseasons deck so your ICE stays relevant after the tags land, but it's expensive for a deck that's just blown its load on a big trace. It's good against tagme as a tech card. It's bad in general use because 6 creds for a 3-to-break ICE is terrible. It's decent behind a Data Raven, but positional ICE is bad. The Weyland one seems bad, with the illicit tag as a comical gently caress you on top. Weyland lyfe Speaking of which, En Passant makes degenerate Val decks that just spam Blackmail, SoT'd Blackmail, Deja Vu'd blackmail and Levy'd Blackmail even better, sigh. Khan's console is just weird - it does nothing at all to support her breakers. And it's not like Crim needs more HQ multi-access. It's also a bit risky against any PE, IG or Supermodernism deck since the multiaccess is mandatory, meaning you can't necessarily rely on the 2MU in those matchups unless you just never run HQ. Best defence seems pretty good, mainly for the interaction with zero-cost cards, of which there are quite a few that see play. Also good for blowing up Plascretes after a Midseasons. Smoke is nuts but we knew that anyway. Preemptive action might be better than some people think. It's good for recycling things like Snare and Shock, or Bio-ethics and Hostile in IG49, or trashed ICE, or political assets, or trashed Jacksons, etc. It takes the pressure off your Jacksons too, meaning you can focus them a bit more on defending agendas. I think it might see play in some decks. Edit: I can't decide about Wetwork Refit. It's probably underwhelming, but it makes Fairchild 3.0 unbreakable with clicks, which maybe might prove useful? Probably not though. Zephro fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 20:51
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I've been talking to a friend who likes Weyland about Chief Slee. She has problems, certainly, but there are some nice synergies. Little Engine, Builder, Pup, Negotiator, most Grail ICE... Zed, Hudson... Sure, you'd have to tweak your deck to make good use of her, but if that were the only requirement for a card to be bad then Stealth breakers would be rubbish. She has her place (with the obvious Rumour Mill and Polop caveats).
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Oct 31, 2016 21:11
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Zephro posted:Speaking of which, En Passant makes degenerate Val decks that just spam Blackmail, SoT'd Blackmail, Deja Vu'd blackmail and Levy'd Blackmail even better, sigh.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:11
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She could be fun in Hot Tubs behind a Tour Guide, maybe.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:15
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Zephro posted:She could be fun in Hot Tubs behind a Tour Guide, maybe. Favorite quotes out of context.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:26
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PJOmega posted:Favorite quotes out of context. 
Zephro fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 21:48
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CodfishCartographer posted:It's not, but it usually means that the Runner has to play the rest of the game (until she's trashed) without ever ending their turn with 4 or fewer cards in hand. Untrashable assets are a cool idea but they'd be really hard to balance. You'd either need to give them relatively small benefits, maybe something like a PAD campaign that only gave a credit every other turn or something. I guess the other, more interesting option would be to give them two-edged benefits that are sometimes disadvantages, and would make their untrashability more interesting (since the Corp isn't allowed to trash them from a server either). Sort of like Palana Agroplex tried to be. That would be very hard to balance, but cool if you could get it right. Zephro fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 22:17
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Untrashable assets would also make things like Tour Guide hard to deal with. I think one possible workaround is that untrashable assets would have some additional cost or condition over just straight credits to rez. Runners need X tags, runner/corp has X credits, Corp has X Bad Pub, X ICE (or subtype of ICE) rezzed, etc.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:30
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After thinking about it a bit more, I think that maybe the solution shouldn’t be assets that can’t be trashed, but assets that carry a heavy cost to trash. Like a Weyland asset that when you trash it you need to discard your grip, or something like that. Right now it feels like the more powerful an Asset’s effect is, the cheaper it is to trash. This makes sense on paper, as a risk/reward sort of strength/weakness sort of deal, but in the state of the game now servers are just too porous. It’s super difficult to keep a runner out of your scoring remote at this point, let alone to also protect a second server for a key asset. I feel like a few years ago,when an asset was rezzed it gave the runner a dilemma: do I dedicate my limited resources to running that asset, or running the scoring remote? Will that open a scoring window? But nowadays runners have so much money and ways to trash assets that it isn’t an interesting or difficult decision. The decision of “can I trash this asset? should I trash it?” is no longer there, it’s almost always “yes i can trash it, yes i should trash it"
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Oct 31, 2016 22:46
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There are cards that let you trash anything even if it cant normally be trashed so it would be really hard to balance an untrashable asset around someone just getting rid of it with an imp.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:49
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Fall Guy, but for corps, would be dope af tho. Zaibatsu Loyalty, but instead of "expose," replace with "trashed"
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Oct 31, 2016 23:11
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what if it was really weak with a low trash cost but it bounced back to your hand like Subliminal and refunded the click as well when you install it. poo poo, what if it gave you an extra click when you rezzed it so you could save up a click for a later turn as long as the runner did not trash it?
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Oct 31, 2016 23:17
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Machai posted:what if it was really weak with a low trash cost but it bounced back to your hand like Subliminal and refunded the click as well when you install it. I like it, but the problem I could see with that is what happens when you rez it on the runner’s turn? I guess you could add in some clarification text. “Gain <click> when [Asset] is rezzed. If [Asset] is rezzed on the runner’s turn, Gain <click> at the start of your next turn.” Then maybe something like "Gain 2c whenever you spend a fourth click on your turn."
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Oct 31, 2016 23:53
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Museum of the Future 2 to rez, 2 to trash When your turn begins, you may pay 1. If you do, skip your mandatory draw. If Museum of the Future is trashed while installed, shuffle it into R&D instead.
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Nov 1, 2016 00:10
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CodfishCartographer posted:I like it, but the problem I could see with that is what happens when you rez it on the runner’s turn? I guess you could add in some clarification text. “Gain <click> when [Asset] is rezzed. If [Asset] is rezzed on the runner’s turn, Gain <click> at the start of your next turn.” why would you rez it on the runner's turn though?
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Nov 1, 2016 01:07
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Machai posted:why would you rez it on the runner's turn though? To deal with councilman triggers.
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Nov 1, 2016 01:22
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Just have it read "gain <click> at the start of your next turn". Also this is basically what Haas Archology AI does except that card has an absurdly bad rez/trash ratio for an asset you need to advance. fomo sacer fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 01:57
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It kind of feels like runners have had power creep, but corps haven't. Or at least, not nearly as accelerated as runners have had.
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Nov 1, 2016 02:07
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The MWL and errata hit hurt the dominant corp (NEH, and NBN in general) far more than hit the runners. The Faust engine was put on the MWL, sure, but it made yog a far more palatable option. The existence of Temujin contract boosted runner economies massively, and corps aside from EtF really haven't had an answer to it. What that probably means is that a rush or FA EtF is likely the winning decklist for Worlds, because it's fast enough to deal with Whizz before the NRE/Ice carver combo comes online, and glacier-y enough to deal with more tempo players..
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Nov 1, 2016 02:33
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Meh, Khan's console is really such a missed opportunity. I guess Temujin is meant to be the thing that compensates Khan for the huge cost of using and installing her breakers, but it's just turned into the generic economy card du jour (entirely predictably) and is used by basically every other runner as well (it feels like it should have been one more inf at least and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it MWL'd). The console should have synergised with the breakers in some way, at least - draw a card the first time each turn you derez an ICE; reveal all cards in HQ the first time each turn you derez and ICE, add the first ICE you derez each turn to HQ unless the Corp pays a credit, or something. It's not hard to think up fun interactions that would make the bird breakers better and more playable. Oh well.
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Nov 1, 2016 09:29
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Getting real tired of NotRunner, aka Blackmail Val, DDoS, Leela and other shenanigans that don't have any interplay. Is Executive Boot Camp deserving of a slot or two at this point just to counter that? Magic figured this out in 2001 with how Flashback works (exiling a card when you re-play it, to prevent absurd recursion), hard to understand how NR missed that, especially when they did include self-exile on that Jackson-wannabe operation.
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Nov 1, 2016 17:45
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I usually rush those agendas out as fast as possible. If they take up to 6 pts while doing all of that that's fine as long as I get to 7 first.
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Nov 1, 2016 18:18
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Zephro posted:Meh, Khan's console is really such a missed opportunity. I guess Temujin is meant to be the thing that compensates Khan for the huge cost of using and installing her breakers, but it's just turned into the generic economy card du jour (entirely predictably) and is used by basically every other runner as well (it feels like it should have been one more inf at least and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it MWL'd). The console should have synergised with the breakers in some way, at least - draw a card the first time each turn you derez an ICE; reveal all cards in HQ the first time each turn you derez and ICE, add the first ICE you derez each turn to HQ unless the Corp pays a credit, or something. It's not hard to think up fun interactions that would make the bird breakers better and more playable. I've been playing a few different Khan decks, and it's become very clear that she and her breakers only work with two cards: Autoscripter, and CybSoft MacroDrive - with emphasis on the CybSoft. The ability to reinstall the birds for cheap is critical. Multithreader helps, and if you're running Saker instead of Paperclip (risky and pricey) you can run Net-Ready Eyes too, but that MacroDrive is the one thing that gives Khan her own purpose. I pretty much agree that Gauntlet doesn't do much to help - the 2MU is actually a little odd, suggesting that they either want her to run Pheremones or to import all three Multithreaders instead of just one or two - but it's a nice late-game console. In theory, Khan with that console can lock down HQ very thoroughly and use her Turning Wheel to occasionally put pressure on R&D to boot. I'll try a tweak to incorporate these changes after I get my hands on Intervention, certainly.
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Nov 1, 2016 18:30
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:Getting real tired of NotRunner, aka Blackmail Val, DDoS, Leela and other shenanigans that don't have any interplay. Is Executive Boot Camp deserving of a slot or two at this point just to counter that? Blackmail val is probably the easiest way to find out if your deck can handle runner tricks or not, because it's the simplest way for a runner to deal with corp ICE. I can understand frustration playing against it, but how is it different than a nexus bypass or your big barrier getting femmed? Or just straight up the runner making enough money to handle any sort of ICE that you put up on a server? Breaking ICE has always been the last option for a runner in order to get into a server. Usually they use tricks to bypass it in some way. Like, if your deck can't handle blackmail val, how does it deal with other bypass methods. If blackmail Val really has you down, either play shell games with 2 ICE remotes, or splash in Ark lockdown to get rid of them.
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Nov 1, 2016 18:56
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:Getting real tired of NotRunner, aka Blackmail Val, DDoS, Leela and other shenanigans that don't have any interplay. Is Executive Boot Camp deserving of a slot or two at this point just to counter that? Playing CTM/Sync/ETF with Cresium is probably a better way to have a fun interactive game vs those decks than hoping EBC will save you, IMO. Or play Blue Sun where EBC is apparently good enough even when it's not a hate card. fomo sacer fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 19:13
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