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I am sincerely doubtful that the thing which pushed Ana from garbage tier to "plz nerf" was two extra shots before reloading and a slight RoF buff.
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Nov 3, 2016 01:14
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my favorite ana buff is her giving out candy before every match
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Nov 3, 2016 01:14
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Kai Tave posted:I am sincerely doubtful that the thing which pushed Ana from garbage tier to "plz nerf" was two extra shots before reloading and a slight RoF buff. i think it was more a bone for the console crowd than anything
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Nov 3, 2016 01:25
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You can't really argue that a few more shots and a higher RoF don't lower her skill ceiling, though. For a rather difficult to play character, that's a big difference.
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Nov 3, 2016 01:26
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The RoF buff was a direct buff to her throughput and put her solidly above Mercy for single-target healing throughput (without even needing to grenade) which mattered quite a bit
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Nov 3, 2016 01:35
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Kai Tave posted:I am sincerely doubtful that the thing which pushed Ana from garbage tier to "plz nerf" was two extra shots before reloading and a slight RoF buff. Then they gave her four more bullets and a rate of fire boost, basically doubling her healing/damage output
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Nov 3, 2016 01:53
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She's still going to be very strong after the nerf. Her healing debuff grenade is the best non-ult skill in the game for clearing a point.
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Nov 3, 2016 02:28
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It is sort of goofy from both a design clarity perspective and a balance one that Ana's grenade does so many things. It
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Nov 3, 2016 02:39
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Nihilarian posted:she was never garbage, though she might have been niche. Her sleep dart, healboost/antiheal grenade and nanoboost made her very solid. I think there was a time where it was common to run her, Lucio and Zenyatta all at the same time. They gave her two more bullets actually, she went from 8 to 10. As far as running her goes people weren't really using 3 healer/3 tank comps until somewhere between S1 and S2 when people suddenly realized that you could have a nanoboosted Reinhardt cycling Earthshatter through every single teamfight (then even later they'd drop Zen in exchange for a 4th tank).
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Nov 3, 2016 02:40
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Bottom Liner posted:She's still going to be very strong after the nerf. Her healing debuff grenade is the best non-ult skill in the game for clearing a point. I wouldn't even put that qualifier on it and just say it's the best non-ultimate ability in the game. IronicDongz posted:It is sort of goofy from both a design clarity perspective and a balance one that Ana's grenade does so many things. It It also rules how if a Zenyatta burns his ultimate to nullify a Zarya black hole you can just nade the group of enemies to entirely cancel Zenyatta's ultimate.
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Nov 3, 2016 02:42
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Shear Modulus posted:I wouldn't even put that qualifier on it and just say it's the best non-ultimate ability in the game. That's a toss up between discord orb and grenade IMO.
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Nov 3, 2016 02:44
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Just by nature of her toolkit she requires a lot more precision than the other healers, she probably seemed bad at first because a bunch of idiots like me were flailing around missing. Shear Modulus posted:I wouldn't even put that qualifier on it and just say it's the best non-ultimate ability in the game. After Reinhardt's shield 
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Nov 3, 2016 02:46
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Bottom Liner posted:That's a toss up between discord orb and grenade IMO. Maybe if discord orb simultaneously healed any of your teammates around the orbed player.
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Nov 3, 2016 02:59
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Kai Tave posted:They gave her two more bullets actually, she went from 8 to 10.
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Nov 3, 2016 03:19
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Shear Modulus posted:It also rules how if a Zenyatta burns his ultimate to nullify a Zarya black hole you can just nade the group of enemies to entirely cancel Zenyatta's ultimate. As a Zenyatta player I'll have you know that this is actually bullshit.
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Nov 3, 2016 03:31
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 I've arrived at "not totally potato rank" my rank started at like 1970 or something and has been a straight climb up the whole way. feeling fairly good about it, though of course I haven't gotten high really yet NoEyedSquareGuy posted:As a Zenyatta player I'll have you know that this is actually bullshit.
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Nov 3, 2016 04:33
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Maybe if they made it so you had to shoot an enemy after splashing them it to inflict the 0 healing debuff. You have to shoot your allies to make use of the x2 healing buff so it'd be more symmetrical.
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Nov 3, 2016 04:42
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You don't have to shoot your allies to inflict the healing buff, though, and sometimes you don't need more healing than the grenade(or have more healers on your team). There are situations now where you want to inflict either status but may not shoot the person afterwards(because you're busy with something else, or it's handled by teammates). It would be less symmetrical because you wouldn't have to shoot teammates to inflict the healing buff, but would have to shoot enemies for the debuff. I don't think Ana needs to be more complicated.
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Nov 3, 2016 04:52
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ive been on a zenyatta binge and tbh i havent suffered from ana yet but every ult i do makes me think "man a heal grenade would REALLY SUCK RIGHT NOW" zenyatta ult is great tho, because I am a really awful rear end in a top hat and it makes me feel really happy to know that when the enemy pulls off their wombo combos and begin to feel that ecstasy, when they see their nanoboosted rein running swinging at a group of foes stuck together by a zarya/mei combo ult to finally shift momentum of the round in their favour, I am there to completely ruin their fun at the press of a single button, and to fill their hearts with dread in the knowledge that they actually will have to aim and shoot at things to win fights and are thus damned forever then mccree pops up and kills everyone while im all transcendent and poo poo and i experience ego death
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Nov 3, 2016 04:56
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The real douche thing to do is follow the enemy boost-rein/dragon-gengi as closely as you possibly can, so they're just impotently flailing around in what should have been their finest hour. HEY BUDDY IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO KILL PEOPLE. MIND IF I WATCH?
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Nov 3, 2016 09:42
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IronicDongz posted:It is sort of goofy from both a design clarity perspective and a balance one that Ana's grenade does so many things. It She has no vertical mobility whatsoever. She has no horizontal escape ability at all. Her other skill is a slightly delayed projectile-based stun that is cancelled by incoming damage. Her weapon is hitscan when zoomed but projectile when hipfired, can not headshot for bonus damage, and does damage in a very unique manner so someone getting shot by Ana can immediately tell they're getting shot by Ana. Look that healing grenade is basically the only part of her kit that isn't massively crippled in some way. She's got a hell of an arm when throwing it, but she needs all those advantages you listed just to be a loving viable character since they've all but taken a Reinhammer to her kneecaps already.
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Nov 3, 2016 10:46
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Not really, no. Characters do not actually need mobility options to be viable(Ana is one of the extremely high usage 'core' heros in current pro comp, and so is Zarya, neither of which have any movement options-also see Roadhog, who gets a good amount of use at that level as well), and her weapon is really, really good(does good damage on top of being able to heal damage faster than mercy, and I don't know why you list being able to choose whether you use projectile for bigger hitbox or hitscan for instant hit like it's a negative). People knowing they're being hit by Ana isn't much of a negative because it takes almost no time for people to figure out which heros the other team is running anyways. You could nerf heal grenade and Ana would still be a good character.
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Nov 3, 2016 11:14
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Ana doesn't need a movement skill since these tanks with three times the HP do just fine without one.
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Nov 3, 2016 11:15
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The grenade is an amazing ability, but not having it off cooldown leaves you extremely vulnerable. You need it to deal with non-braindead flankers, and regularly throwing it at 1-2 chip damaged teammates because you're too lazy/bad of a shot to heal them with m1s makes you bad at Ana.
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Nov 3, 2016 11:17
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FAUXTON posted:Ana doesn't need a movement skill since these tanks with three times the HP do just fine without one.
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Nov 3, 2016 11:18
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IronicDongz posted:No, Ana doesn't need a movement skill because she is straightup a top tier character without one Because of the grenade.
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Nov 3, 2016 11:20
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With her ult and weapon(which are both great) she would still be at least alright if grenade was nerfed. You wanna talk about "massively crippled" characters, look at Symmetra.
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Nov 3, 2016 11:31
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What feels better than two shotting an ulting Genji as Zenyatta?
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Nov 3, 2016 11:57
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Bottom Liner posted:What feels better than two shotting an ulting Genji as Zenyatta? Murdering a Mei as Zenyatta while she tries to freeze you.
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Nov 3, 2016 11:58
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charging a right click as zen as a tracer rewinds and then sending her head into the shadow realm when she reappears
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Nov 3, 2016 12:01
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IronicDongz posted:With her ult and weapon(which are both great) she would still be at least alright if grenade was nerfed. You wanna talk about "massively crippled" characters, look at Symmetra. The only crippled character I see is Junkrat
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Nov 3, 2016 12:09
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Jeza posted:The only crippled character I see is Junkrat Reaper is missing his entire body.
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Nov 3, 2016 12:33
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Decided to get back into this dumb game http://masteroverwatch.com/profile/shared/def48f51cd45e4db Qualified at 2805. Not bad. I qualified at 65 last season so i've just golden gun'd my roadhog. Roadhog is amazing.
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Nov 3, 2016 12:34
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Donnerberg posted:Reaper is missing his entire body. Call me when being able to turn into a sweet ghost is considered a disability, tia
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Nov 3, 2016 12:39
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IronicDongz posted:charging a right click as zen as a tracer rewinds and then sending her head into the shadow realm when she reappears Sending an icicle directly into the face of a tracer as Mei. The longer the distance the better. 
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Nov 3, 2016 12:54
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Ana's grenade is one of the strongest non-ultimate offensive abilities in the game, and most people use it to self-heal for 100
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Nov 3, 2016 15:16
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I'd say that's proof it's a good ability then, because it shows it has use at different levels of play. People who don't know what they're doing like it because they can use it as a self-heal, and people who do know what they're doing can use it to zone out a whole group. More abilities should work that way if Blizzard is really serious about the idea of a game that can satisfy both chill quickplay and hardcore competitive.
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Nov 3, 2016 15:19
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Bottom Liner posted:What feels better than two shotting an ulting Genji as Zenyatta? Getting bumped off a cliff by Lucio or Reinhardt and landing your hook so that he joins you in death.
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Nov 3, 2016 15:28
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Every part of Ana's kit is too good. The grenade healing buff combos with Lucio's healing to make it nearly a Harmony Orb on everyone(25hps vs 30), and with Amp it up even better than an Ana shooting into everyone (80 vs 75). The best way to counter this is another grenade, because the best counter to a hero should be the same hero. People say she's weak 1v1 and maybe forget the part where she can heal herself for 100 and damage the enemy for 60, sometimes both. She also has a decent weapon. With just her gun, she does 160 damage in 2 shots, add grenade for 220, killing most of the cast. Zenyatta, the offensive support, in the same time does 138-179 with discord. He adds a melee to hit the 200 breakpoint and she does to hit 250 to kill the non-tanks (bastion doesn't count). Zen does have headshots but she has hitscan. Also, breakpoints are variable when the targets are being healed by a healer or their own passive, but Ana uniquely doesn't have to deal with that so her window to hit those breakpoints is much more relaxed than anyone else's. Then there's sleep dart. Big targets like Bastion and the tanks are much less of a problem now, and anyone else it hits are pretty much doomed. It's also the best way to completely shut down her own ult. The one that's probably the best at breaking a stalemate. It charges quickly and combos well with other ults. Here's a weird one: I ulted a Tracer to make Pulse Bomb hit the 600 breakpoint to kill even full health tanks. You can even make McCree do the moonwalk. Nerf Ana.
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Nov 3, 2016 15:41
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slydingdoor posted:Every part of Ana's kit is too good. Counterpoint - what if I can't aim good
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Nov 3, 2016 15:44
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