|
PT6A posted:Yeah, I'm sure kids in grade 8 are cynical about trade deals and trans-national organizations. I never said they were. People like you are the reason that Sun chain newspaper articles get written in one sentence paragraphs. Helsing posted:It's going to be hard to design an effective civics curriculum when most students feel justifiably cynical about the government, it's responsiveness to their concerns, and it's capability to actually improve their lives. It's sort of like all the pearl clutching over decreasing voter turnout, often coming from the same media organizations that shill relentlessly for every trade deal that cedes a bit more of our sovereignty to distant and unaccountable trans-national organizations.
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 00:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 06:36 |
|
|
Landsknecht posted:You might not see the parties splitting quickly, but if we saw 1 vote=1 vote logic the cities would heavily dominate rural areas, especially in provincial politics Is that not the point of PR? Why should rural Canada have such a significant say in Canadian politics when the majority of the population is found in the cities? gently caress rural hicks that hold back the rest of Canada with their ignorant redneck beliefs
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 00:51
|
|
|
In a development that will probably surprise no one, it wasn't just a single Journal de Montreal journalist who was being spied on. https://twitter.com/IsabelleRicher/status/793899102081781760 https://twitter.com/mmdenisrc/status/793892636302139393 https://twitter.com/gravela_rc/status/793903599046787076
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 00:53
|
|
|
The Dark One posted:In a development that will probably surprise no one, it wasn't just a single Journal de Montreal journalist who was being spied on. But you see, C-51 was never going to be abused. There would be checks and balances to ensure that freedoms were not being violated.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 00:59
|
|
|
Helsing posted:I never said they were. People like you are the reason that Sun chain newspaper articles get written in one sentence paragraphs. Well, the alternative interpretation, which is apparently what you intended, is that the sentence in question has nothing to do with the original point of the paragraph and was included solely to indulge your penchant for bitching about the ((( internationalists ))). I suppose I thought too highly of intelligence to presume you'd make such a clumsy mistake. But don't worry, it won't happen again!
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 01:03
|
|
|
Helsing posted:I never said they were. People like you are the reason that Sun chain newspaper articles get written in one sentence paragraphs. On that note, Quebecor continues on its death march: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/quebecor-media-job-cuts-1.3832717 quote:Quebecor Media Group said Wednesday it will cut 220 jobs, or about eight per cent of its workforce, as the company restructures. Too bad that they sold off the Sun news division to Postmedia--then again they're on a death march too.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 01:09
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Well, the alternative interpretation, which is apparently what you intended, is that the sentence in question has nothing to do with the original point of the paragraph and was included solely to indulge your penchant for bitching about the ((( internationalists ))). I suppose I thought too highly of intelligence to presume you'd make such a clumsy mistake. But don't worry, it won't happen again! The conventional English interpretation of someone saying X is "sort of like" Y is to suggest that the speaker sees some kind of similarity between two things, not that one thing causes the other. In this case, a similarity between ineffectual pearl clutching over our bad civics curriculum and ineffectual pearl clutching over low voter-turnout in a society where voting has decreasing significance for most people's daily lives. There shouldn't be anything confusing about this. I brought up trade deals in that specific context because I think it's ironic when NAFTA or TPP boosters like the Globe and Mail express concern about lack of civic engagement. The pro-globalization discourse through which these deals are justified emphasizes global citizenship and market-driven solutions as superior to local determinism and political democracy. Yet these same pro-globalization voices will express concern about the limited interest most people have in elections and governance. I see this as similarly ineffectual and silly to the concerns people express about lack of decent Civics classes. It all feeds into my larger point, in both cases, which is that it's extremely superficial to get worried about civic knowledge or voting when the real problem is the general (and rational) assessment on most people's parts that electoral politics is largely irrelevant to their daily lives.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 01:37
|
|
|
Postess with the Mostest posted:It's not sarcastic at all but I'm curious why you think it might be. You could pretty much C+P the whole thing word for word into a Beaverton article and nobody would bat an eye.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 01:44
|
|
|
RBC posted:I feel like the subtle context of ostracizing the trinity western lawschool by the legal profession is more about protecting the "prestige" of the profession and keeping a private religious school out of it than any noble defence of same-sex rights My main problem is that there's already too many law schools in the country than there are articling jobs, so the opening of new schools will just result in an American-style law graduate crisis.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 02:07
|
|
|
bub spank posted:My main problem is that there's already too many law schools in the country than there are articling jobs, so the opening of new schools will just result in an American-style law graduate crisis. Why not make lawyers as common as real estate agents?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 02:09
|
|
|
Helsing posted:The conventional English interpretation of someone saying X is "sort of like" Y is to suggest that the speaker sees some kind of similarity between two things, not that one thing causes the other. In this case, a similarity between ineffectual pearl clutching over our bad civics curriculum and ineffectual pearl clutching over low voter-turnout in a society where voting has decreasing significance for most people's daily lives. There shouldn't be anything confusing about this. Fair enough. You have to admit that this interpretation was not obvious to anyone who doesn't already agree with you that: quote:it's extremely superficial to get worried about civic knowledge or voting when the real problem is the general (and rational) assessment on most people's parts that electoral politics is largely irrelevant to their daily lives EDIT: To clarify, it would be reasonable to assume the similarity you see between the two situations is based on something that you actually mentioned in your post, as opposed to something you've only mentioned just now. Thus, my earlier misunderstanding. EDIT 2: One could also argue that the reason teenagers feel disengaged from the political process is they are legally unable to vote, and they may not understand how it works. The former issue is unlikely to change, but the latter issue could be fixed by.... a good civics class or something! PT6A fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Nov 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 02:59
|
|
|
The Butcher posted:You could pretty much C+P the whole thing word for word into a Beaverton article and nobody would bat an eye. As an aside, Beaverton is getting a show on Comedy Network for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 14:36
|
|
|
infernal machines posted:As an aside, Beaverton is getting a show on Comedy Network for some reason. They better move quick, Ottawa Citizen is nudging into their market. quote:What will you do when Trump's troops invade?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 15:03
|
|
|
We will, in fact, greet them as liberators.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 15:14
|
|
|
I'll be living in the EU by that point, dealing with the "muzzie invasion" or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 15:25
|
|
|
We're going to build a wall without minarets, and we're going to make the Middle East pay for it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 15:29
|
|
|
Postess with the Mostest posted:They better move quick, Ottawa Citizen is nudging into their market. I imagine this being said with an increasingly shrill tone of desperation: quote:Canada is a country worthy of invasion.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 16:11
|
|
|
I already live in the US so I'll get to reap the sweet benefits of colonialism
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 16:18
|
|
|
A Typical Goon posted:Is that not the point of PR? Why should rural Canada have such a significant say in Canadian politics when the majority of the population is found in the cities? keeping the various regions of Canada happy has always been a challenge for the federal government if there was an ontario/quebec group that governed the country with no overtures to the west or maritimes it is very feasible that the country could fall apart
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 16:43
|
|
|
Landsknecht posted:keeping the various regions of Canada happy has always been a challenge for the federal government Why would we expect a PR based Canadian electoral system to cater more heavily to regionalism than the current system, where the path to victory is to assemble a strong regional coalition? And why does a poster bringing up the urban vs. rural divide make you fear the breakup of the country when the West is overwhelmingly urban (just like the rest of the country)? Even in Saskatchewan 67% of the population is classified as living in urban areas, and that's lower than Manitoba and significantly lower than Alberta.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 17:02
|
|
|
Queen's Park:quote:Yasir Naqvi says he is not a "legal expert". Tory MPP Randy Hillier shouts, "You're the Attorney General!"
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 17:05
|
|
|
Next thing you'll be telling me the health minister isn't even a medical do... okay bad example
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 17:08
|
|
|
I think a big part of the problem with over-representing rural areas to ensure some kind of balance is that, for some reason, there's a shitton of rear end-backwards viewpoints that seem to fester in rural areas that really have nothing to do with concerns that are directly caused by living in a rural area. I mean, being a racist or a homophobe shouldn't be correlated with whether you live in a city or on a farm, but for some reason it is.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 17:20
|
|
|
#NotAllRurals
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 17:23
|
|
|
infernal machines posted:#NotAllRurals Go back to North York.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 17:26
|
|
|
PT6A posted:I think a big part of the problem with over-representing rural areas to ensure some kind of balance is that, for some reason, there's a shitton of rear end-backwards viewpoints that seem to fester in rural areas that really have nothing to do with concerns that are directly caused by living in a rural area. I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the correlation is more closely based on whether you have a university education. E: Seriously though the relentless hate on people in rural areas in this thread gets old. The farmhorse is dead, quit beating it. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Nov 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 17:38
|
|
|
Helsing posted:Why would we expect a PR based Canadian electoral system to cater more heavily to regionalism than the current system, where the path to victory is to assemble a strong regional coalition? And why does a poster bringing up the urban vs. rural divide make you fear the breakup of the country when the West is overwhelmingly urban (just like the rest of the country)? Even in Saskatchewan 67% of the population is classified as living in urban areas, and that's lower than Manitoba and significantly lower than Alberta. I think it really depends on how the electorate adapts to the system. However, groups such as the green party could make plays that would be much more favourable to urban residents (excise tax on large vehicles) which would play terribly with rural voters, but the demographics mean that there's more to be gained with a play to urban voters.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 17:43
|
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the correlation is more closely based on whether you have a university education. Or any extended period of time interacting with people from another postal code. Nothing kills the fear of the other like meeting them and realizing hey, they're actual people
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 17:43
|
|
|
flakeloaf posted:Or any extended period of time interacting with people from another postal code. Nothing kills the fear of the other like meeting them and realizing hey, they're actual people Which explains why places like Winnipeg and Saskatchewan with lots of natives are the least racist.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 17:51
|
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the correlation is more closely based on whether you have a university education. It probably really does just depend on cities, because that's where you meet people that are different from you, and when you regularly interact with those people, you're less likely to fear/dislike them. You tend not to get that in rural areas because not many immigrants choose to live there (for obvious reasons, same reasons why Canadians at large don't). Of course that's mitigated by how terribly suburban our cities are, they're great at segregating people on class lines, and often ethnic ones as well. University experience helps because they're ethically diverse (and I suspect minorities are overrepresented these days), but does little for encouraging mixing across class boundaries. fe: the reason we're so down on rurals is because they love to shout about how important their problems are, when really by pure weight of numbers, they aren't. Yes, privatizing Ontario Hydro is dumb and bad. No, nobody cares that you pay huge delivery charges because you live in the middle of nowhere.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 17:58
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
Landsknecht posted:I think it really depends on how the electorate adapts to the system. However, groups such as the green party could make plays that would be much more favourable to urban residents (excise tax on large vehicles) which would play terribly with rural voters, but the demographics mean that there's more to be gained with a play to urban voters. Eight in ten Canadians live in what the government classifies as urban areas, including a majority of the residents of every western province and British Columbia. Why would an explicitly pro-urban party be either a bad thing or something that exacerbates regionalism?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 18:18
|
|
|
Helsing posted:Eight in ten Canadians live in what the government classifies as urban areas, including a majority of the residents of every western province and British Columbia. Why would an explicitly pro-urban party be either a bad thing or something that exacerbates regionalism? Again, the citizens of places like Peterborough, Trois-Rivieres or Kelowna wouldn't self-identify as Urban no matter how the government classifies them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 18:35
|
|
|
The Liberals continue to cultivate the goodwill and friendship of the Middle East's most pro-feminist regime.The Globe and Mail posted:Canadian meeting with Saudi human rights commission draws criticism
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 18:39
|
|
|
PK loving SUBBAN posted:Again, the citizens of places like Peterborough, Trois-Rivieres or Kelowna wouldn't self-identify as Urban no matter how the government classifies them. Those cities all have populations of greater than 100,000 people so they're free to believe whatever they want but they live in urban centres. To my mind the real issue isn't confusing urban and rural, but lacking a distinct definition for suburban vs. urban. But either way, I suspect the most relevant cleavage here is often going to be job / income, level of education and preferred mode of transportation. Anyway, let's grant for the sake of argument that cities with populations of less than 125,000 can be classified as culturally rural. So what? No one has yet connected the dots and explain how urban vs. rural discontent is going to become worse under a PR system, nor has anyone explained how this will in turn lead to a crisis of regionalism, since every significant province in the country is primarily urban, even if we relax the criteria for what counts as "rural".
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 18:46
|
|
|
lol at the idea of someone from Kelowna classifying themselves as "rural"
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 18:54
|
|
|
b0ner of doom posted:lol at the idea of someone from Kelowna classifying themselves as "rural" It really is more of a cultural thing. "urban" people are more left leaning, rurals more right leaning. There's a whole ridiculous cultural self-identity going on on top of the politics. It also comes down to planning too, there's a "culture war" going on in a lot of small and medium cities with some wanting a more dense walkable core, better transit and such. Others see their town as rural and all this transit and density stuff is useless big-city socialism and the war on cars. There's lots of 100kish "cities" that are basically just big centreless suburbs and people want them to stay that way. Keep the taxes low, keep the infrastructure basic and just for cars. That's really the division in, Urban vs Suburban, not rural. Actual rurals are such a tiny minority they don't even factor in, but suburban folk who self-identify as rural and refuse to address issues from that reality are a problem.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 19:03
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:It really is more of a cultural thing. "urban" people are more left leaning, rurals more right leaning. There's a whole ridiculous cultural self-identity going on on top of the politics. It also comes down to planning too, there's a "culture war" going on in a lot of small and medium cities with some wanting a more dense walkable core, better transit and such. Others see their town as rural and all this transit and density stuff is useless big-city socialism and the war on cars. There's lots of 100kish "cities" that are basically just big centreless suburbs and people want them to stay that way. Keep the taxes low, keep the infrastructure basic and just for cars. I have lived in Ontario most of my life and honestly, this would be the real danger in expanding Ontario's representation in federal politics. PT6A posted:I think a big part of the problem with over-representing rural areas to ensure some kind of balance is that, for some reason, there's a shitton of rear end-backwards viewpoints that seem to fester in rural areas that really have nothing to do with concerns that are directly caused by living in a rural area. Racists and bigots self-select to live in more homogeneous communities with other white people. Also, seniors are over-represented in rural communities because they don't have to go to jobs every day and well, we all know that white seniors, even ones that have lived in diverse areas most of their lives, as a demographic aren't so good with "those people." peter banana fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Nov 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 19:11
|
|
|
 Christ, must every left leaning person I meet be either terrified of democracy or else convinced that a Truly Leftist party platform would produce a sweeping majority mandate for the NDP? Can't we have a middle ground between crippling cynicism and naive optimism?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 19:21
|
|
|
Helsing posted:
"People who aren't like me are going to ruin this country." - Every Canadian. Try not to worry about it and take your dog fishing or whatever city people do.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 19:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 06:36 |
|
|
Baronjutter posted:It really is more of a cultural thing. "urban" people are more left leaning, rurals more right leaning. There's a whole ridiculous cultural self-identity going on on top of the politics. It also comes down to planning too, there's a "culture war" going on in a lot of small and medium cities with some wanting a more dense walkable core, better transit and such. Others see their town as rural and all this transit and density stuff is useless big-city socialism and the war on cars. There's lots of 100kish "cities" that are basically just big centreless suburbs and people want them to stay that way. Keep the taxes low, keep the infrastructure basic and just for cars. Yeah I get the part about cultural identity and whatnot but I suppose I'd find whatever thought process leads a Kelowna suburbanite to identify themselves as "rural" to be strange. I'm live/am from somewhere much, much more remote by comparison so maybe I just don't get it. Interesting nonetheless.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 19:30
|
|