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Everyone's saying that but I'm reading it a different way. I think it'll still have the same animation, just "instant" in the fact that it's not channeled so you can move while doing it.
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Nov 8, 2016 01:05
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Medullah posted:As long as you're only playing for the story you can pretty much get by with just hitting 1-3 buttons. Yeah but like. Ok I keep thinking about this when I play, especially on my main (a Guardian). The game throws so many goddamn abilities and combinations at you, but when you think about it the "class fantasy" (to borrow a term from another game) is way simpler than that. Take the Vigilance spec, for example. The concept behind it is acrobatics and supercharging your lightsaber to start setting fire to stuff. To accomplish that in the current game, you hit three separate buttons to activate three different (but similar) damage over time attacks. To have enough of the required resource to launch these attacks, you'll need to have hit one of two resource builder attacks. Activating your three DOTs (in the right order) gives you a narrow window to activate a fourth attack that's buffed by activating the DOTs, and then you're back at square one or into a new rotation phase. I've thought for a while that SWTOR is doing itself a disservice by how many buttons it throws at you. In an ideal world, you honestly could survive with just four - a basic attack buffed by your spec choice (Vigilance gets a burning effect, Focus gets extended range, cannon troopers get explosive ammo, etc), a short cooldown advanced attack, a long cooldown ultimate ability and a healing/recovery move to keep you alive. For class progression, unlock buffs and even replacement abilities for these four slots. The beauty of this (and I know it's kind of stolen from Diablo and MOBAs) is that it lets you actually focus on what's on the screen. I spend half of every fight looking at my action bars and that's boring as poo poo. The other benefit is that the simplified combat system would make the game ideal for porting to consoles, whose populations are dying for good free to play games. Sorry for the effort post, this niggle gets me every time I come back to this game.
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Nov 8, 2016 01:06
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Medullah posted:And even then, it really was only useful as a healer so you wouldn't get leapt to. Planting. Stealth, unlimited lolroll, 30m Flashbang and planting-in-cover was broken as hell. 2.0 Scoundrel was hilarious...my record for making it to the VS core was around 50 seconds start to finish. These changes seem mostly good...though my Sorc is having visions of nets up my rear end all day every day.
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Nov 8, 2016 01:12
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Twelve Elves posted:The other benefit is that the simplified combat system would make the game ideal for porting to consoles No thanks would rather see the game dead.
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Nov 8, 2016 01:13
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Medullah posted:Everyone's saying that but I'm reading it a different way. I think it'll still have the same animation, just "instant" in the fact that it's not channeled so you can move while doing it. Hopefully. I'm curious about what this new Powertech DfA replacement will look like. Also the removal of Flamethrower is kinda ridiculous, unless this Searing Wave is just a more mobile flamethrower or something. Powertech/Vanguard seem to have gotten a lot of changes... digging the Scorpion combo change.
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Nov 8, 2016 01:17
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But realize this isn't a moba, it's a MMORPG. By default a MMORPG is meant to be more complex, with situational cooldowns and buffs. You shouldn't be looking at your keyboard, you should have keybinds set up so you don't need to watch the 6 moves important to your rotation. But again, if you just want to play the game as simply as possible you can just use the basic attack and your discipline specific moves and you'll be fine, you don't need to worry about a rotation. If you want to play it as a MMORPG, doing end game and serious PvP, then yeah, you're going to need more. The game is very easy to play with minimal moves REQUIRED to play at a casual level. Compare it to old school MMORPGs like EverQuest and see how simple it is.
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Nov 8, 2016 01:17
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Fuzz posted:Hopefully. All melee have lost any channeled moves. I think they're just going to be mobile, not necessarily instant casts. I bet the Powertech will still have his flamethrower, it's basically just a name change and can be used while moving. Though the datamined icon is two flamethrowers...
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Nov 8, 2016 01:20
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Been playing some World of Warcraft lately. Having 5 attack buttons, 1+2 murder mode buttons, and 5 guard/utility buttons can work. Not saying SWTOR should just morph into something like it immediately, but it's almost 2017, and having 30 buttons plastered all over your screen doesn't have to be the norm anymore. This is from an old mmo playing gently caress to another.
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Nov 8, 2016 01:21
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Medullah posted:
Congrats you beautiful people.
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Nov 8, 2016 01:27
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Yeah congrats all very nice space Barbies!
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Nov 8, 2016 01:28
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Fargin Icehole posted:Been playing some World of Warcraft lately. Having 5 attack buttons, 1+2 murder mode buttons, and 5 guard/utility buttons can work. I challenge you to name a single discipline in SWTOR that uses more than 12 buttons in a combat scenario. Virulence Sniper is a "challenging" class to play, and it's rotation is Lethal Shot, Corrosive Grenade, Corrosive Dart, Weakening Blast and Cull. Rifle blast for filler. Shield probe, evasion and ballistic shield as your defensive moves. Unless you're doing PvP that's your move set 99% of the time. Sure there's 30 icons but you don't use all of them with every spec.
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Nov 8, 2016 01:28
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I'm okay with rolling more abilities into each other because many just exist to basically trigger a proc in the actual ability I want to use and some classes you have multiple abilities that individually do little to nothing but eventually proc something you actually want to do and I'd prefer each ability kind of feeling more purposeful at the end. That being said most of the classes its more once you are immensely familiar with the game the rotations arent as complicated as you expect. Like with operative I basically have five or six actual attacks I use 98% of the time and then five or six defensive abilities i use 98% of the time and then exfiltrate for moving around. I think that dozen and slightly more abilities could probably be reduced down to say ten and it wouldnt change the game so much while making the learning curve for players to pick up the nuance of each class easier. But something like only three or five abilities would require dramatically changing up each class and how the game would play. edit: 5.0 removing base classes and just letting you pick advanced classes while removing the superfluous abilities each advanced class had as carry overs from the base class is a good step forward I think Berke Negri fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 01:29
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Its is confusing when leveling a new class to have all these new buttons popping up but once you get to endgame and have the full rotation for your chosen spec its really simple--I have my "complex to play" Shadow tank down cold. lol though if you are clicking task bar items at that point though--keybind those actions!
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Nov 8, 2016 01:34
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Medullah posted:I challenge you to name a single discipline in SWTOR that uses more than 12 buttons in a combat scenario. Virulence Sniper is a "challenging" class to play, and it's rotation is Lethal Shot, Corrosive Grenade, Corrosive Dart, Weakening Blast and Cull. Rifle blast for filler. Shield probe, evasion and ballistic shield as your defensive moves. Marauder anything
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Nov 8, 2016 01:46
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Fargin Icehole posted:Marauder anything Annihilation - Force Leap, Force Rend, Rupture, Deadly Saber, Annihilate, dual saber throw, Ravage and Saber Strike as filler, Berserk at 30 stacks. Saber Ward and Cloak of Pain as defensives. That takes care of 99% of the game. Carnage and Fury are even easier.
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Nov 8, 2016 01:53
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Medullah posted:Annihilation - Force Leap, Force Rend, Rupture, Deadly Saber, Annihilate, dual saber throw, Ravage and Saber Strike as filler, Berserk at 30 stacks. Saber Ward and Cloak of Pain as defensives. That takes care of 99% of the game. I guess I'm talking about the 1% of the time but I'd argue good Carnage play is the most intricate rotation in the game.
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Nov 8, 2016 02:16
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DrunkenGarbageCan posted:I guess I'm talking about the 1% of the time but I'd argue good Carnage play is the most intricate rotation in the game. Yeah probably. I haven't played Carnage in a long time. But it's still the same general idea as my Annihilation post - to play it basic, not worrying about squeaking out every last DPS point possible, it's still a 10-12 button rotation. The people that want a simpler game aren't the ones that are clipping Ravage at .2 seconds to get an extra GCD or going for the 3 Cull rotation. I'm just saying, I like there to be a little skill involved in playing a MMORPG. The game has been simplified enough in the last few years. Hell, they specifically coded the "replacement" moves like Veiled Strike replacing Shiv to actually physically replace them in game because so many people couldn't figure out that both moves shouldn't be used. (A good change that makes re-speccing much easier, don't get me wrong)
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Nov 8, 2016 02:24
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Medullah posted:
Congratulations to those who placed. Those were some great costumes to go up against. 
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Nov 8, 2016 03:56
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Grats to the contest winners. Very good Space Princessing!
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Nov 8, 2016 05:29
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When is the crystal nerf happening? Should I logon to all my toons tonight and start splurging out in preparation for the patch tomorrow morning?
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Nov 8, 2016 05:46
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It is nice to be appreciated, especially when DvL invalidates playing a thing for a while! Ooh, the Corellian Stardrive is available. Or Llama-Bot. Those'd be neat. I put Shae Vizla's Mandalore chest in the prize box because uh not because I can't seem to sell it.
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Nov 8, 2016 06:18
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Medullah posted:I challenge you to name a single discipline in SWTOR that uses more than 12 buttons in a combat scenario. Virulence Sniper is a "challenging" class to play, and it's rotation is Lethal Shot, Corrosive Grenade, Corrosive Dart, Weakening Blast and Cull. Rifle blast for filler. Shield probe, evasion and ballistic shield as your defensive moves. You're also leaving out utility stuff that can still be useful or necessary even during regular combat, especially against Golds or big fights. These are the skills I use very often on my lightning Sorc: Lightning Bolt - Cast Time Single Target filler/Buff builder Force Lighting - Channeled Single Target Shock - Instant Single Target Chain Lightning - Cast Time Multi-Target, but only really used when a proc makes it instant Force Storm - Channeled AoE. Crushing Darkness - Cast Time Damage Over Time Affliction - Instant Damage Over Time Lightning Flash - Instant Single Target, lowers cast time of Crushing Darkness (Though it seems laughable? 0.5 seconds oh boy.) Thundering Blast - Cast Time Single Target, best used on targets with Affliction as it crits Jolt - Interrupt Force Speed - Short movement speed buff, but also makes 2 Lightning Bolts instant. Unbreakable Will - Self CC Break Unnatural Preservation - Instant Self-Heal Static Barrier - Instant Damage Shield. Maybe it's just me? But Companions seem to be notoriously single-minded and are really bad about taunting multiple enemies off you if you don't specifically micro manage them, so these two abilities come in handy as sorcs are squishy. I wouldn't say that I use every single one in every encounter, but having just taken this character to 65 for DvL I would say you're, at the very least, being a bit disingenuous with your conclusion. That's not even counting the less used abilities this spec has: Electrocute (Stun), Whirlwind (Single Target CC), Overload (Cone Knockback), Unlimited Power (Raid Damage Cooldown), Cloud Mind (Threat Reduction), Force Slow (Single Target Slow), Recklessness (Damage Cooldown), Dark Heal (Casted Heal), Resurgence (Instant Heal), Reanimation (Revive), Consuming Darkness (Resource Management), Expunge (Cleanse), Extrication (Ally Pull), Phase Walk (Buff/Teleport), Force Barrier (Self Shield Cooldown). Then if you want a Mount, an out of combat quick Heal, your class hour-buff, Heroic Moment, Rocket Boost or Quick Travel.... To be clear I'm not even disagreeing that the majority of them aren't necessary all the time, but if they're something that's useful at least at certain situations you're only hurting yourself by not keeping them on your hotbars. I don't really know why a DPS caster needs 7 main Damage abilities, 2 DoTs, 3 Heals and 2 Shields. You can certainly have interesting group or PVP content with players at the top and bottom ends of the spectrum without having 30+ abilities. Not that it'll change, but ToR's ability bloat has always been pretty astounding. Catsworth fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 07:27
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Medullah posted:The only time cover was genuinely useful was in PvP, and even then you didn't have the portable cover screen so you had to rely on finding natural cover. And even then, it really was only useful as a healer so you wouldn't get leapt to. I don't know about any of that, but rolling into cover at the start of a fight is fun.
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Nov 8, 2016 10:34
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Give every class roll to cover, I always thought. It'd only be useful really for most fights for snipers but why not. Not like jedi knights dont know how to duck behind a crate.
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Nov 8, 2016 10:44
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The basic attack should be more powerful for every class imo. With the lightsaber classes it has some of the most varied and contextual animation in the game, but it's relatively useless as an action. Seems like a waste.
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Nov 8, 2016 10:53
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sassassin posted:The basic attack should be more powerful for every class imo. With the lightsaber classes it has some of the most varied and contextual animation in the game, but it's relatively useless as an action. Seems like a waste. The basic attacks are so good, and usually do multiple different animations when you kill an enemy with them. 
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Nov 8, 2016 10:57
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Medullah posted:
I just wanted to make sure we had more than the two entries we got last time. Still feel a bit guilty for winning the lightning tuning for that. Good costumes from everyone though! Now Medullah can start restocking the vault for a Christmas contest! 
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Nov 8, 2016 10:58
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Catsworth posted:You're also leaving out utility stuff that can still be useful or necessary even during regular combat, especially against Golds or big fights. Right, and as I said, sure there are a lot of buttons available but you certainly don't NEED to use everything. In the example you posted, you included Force Lightning and Shock, which is not something you should be ever be using in Lightning discipline. Dark Heal and Resurgence shouldn't be used except in emergencies (in a raid and healers are seriously overwhelmed, in PvP, etc). I didn't count buffs, rocket boost, mounts and out of combat regen as combat moves. My point is that the game can easily be played very simply for those that think there are too many buttons, while maintaining a level of complexity for those that enjoy the MMORPG side of things. I never played WoW, but I don't think it uses 4 moves per character either. I stand by my statement that this game is incredibly simplistic and doesn't require you to use a third of your available moveset in order to play the story.
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Nov 8, 2016 13:18
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Medullah posted:
 I feel even prettier now than before! Anyway, I will indeed be quite happy to take Senya's pike off your hands, thank you.
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Nov 8, 2016 13:37
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Medullah posted:My point is that the game can easily be played very simply for those that think there are too many buttons, while maintaining a level of complexity for those that enjoy the MMORPG side of things. I never played WoW, but I don't think it uses 4 moves per character either. I stand by my statement that this game is incredibly simplistic and doesn't require you to use a third of your available moveset in order to play the story. Which is something the game is still terrible at communicating to the player - who is going to think "i have all these new buttons, time to never use these old ones again because the new ones are better!"? No, people are like "sweet, another lightning button, haha gently caress you Thanaton, LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIING" Or alternately "gently caress my bh has all these buttons and I forget what half do halp this is confusing D:"
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Nov 8, 2016 16:37
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Dalris Othaine posted:Which is something the game is still terrible at communicating to the player - who is going to think "i have all these new buttons, time to never use these old ones again because the new ones are better!"? No, people are like "sweet, another lightning button, haha gently caress you Thanaton, LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIING" I guess, but again it kind of goes back to the type of player you are. If you are a casual player who just likes playing the story, you'll likely not be paying much attention to the passive skills you get in your discipline path that boost certain abilities, and it really doesn't matter what you use in a rotation because you're not playing anything difficult. If you're trying to be good at the game, I would expect you to read through your skill trees so you know what moves are used in a certain spec, and practice (either in combat or against a dummy). The game DID make it much simpler to understand your skill set in 4.0 when they got rid of skill trees and introduced the flash on your ability bar when a move is buffed. I haven't done any of the tutorials in a while so I don't know how much detail they go into, but my assumption is that anyone who is asking for more clarity on the game has reviewed all of the tutorials and still isn't sure.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:54
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So if I've finished DvL, what's a good way to kill time in SWTOR until the expansion? I have a few alliance companions left to unlock/kill but that's about it for major story stuff.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:59
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Weekly personal conquest goals, dress-up.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:59
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The real endgame, grinding favor to get every single rear end in a top hat to 50 max rep, so that it can all be wiped out in ET or something.
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Nov 8, 2016 20:42
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Medullah posted:I guess, but again it kind of goes back to the type of player you are. If you are a casual player who just likes playing the story, you'll likely not be paying much attention to the passive skills you get in your discipline path that boost certain abilities, and it really doesn't matter what you use in a rotation because you're not playing anything difficult. It feels like you're projecting your personal preferences on the broad playerbase on the idea that you should be lauded for mastering a large amount of situational abilities/powers/skills. Yes, the game can be played with less buttons to mash - so why bother to have all the others? Just to appease people that think that's the way "true" MMOs should be played? There's a reason newer MMOs cut down on the number of abilities. More power to you if you love having two full bars of abilities with a few useful stragglers though. If you can play the game with less skills then why even bother having skill bloat?
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Nov 8, 2016 20:49
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Dalris Othaine posted:"sweet, another lightning button, haha gently caress you Thanaton, LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIING" Can confirm both of these. Just hit 53 on my lightning sorc after a year away and can't play my old bh because 
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Nov 8, 2016 20:52
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Medullah posted:In the example you posted, you included Force Lightning and Shock, which is not something you should be ever be using in Lightning discipline. I'm not trying to drag this on, but I'm genuinely curious as to why I wouldn't want to use those abilities, and if not, then where I would pick up on it. I would say I fall into the middle of your "Doesn't give a gently caress why learn" and "Must be the best in the world" categories, as I do read my skills and talents, which I would also imagine most players do? I really don't think that category of players is as big as you seem to be suggesting, possibly why you're getting so much pushback. The only thing I can think of is that neither of them are augmented by talents or activate any procs, but they still seem decent as filler, and no where in the game that I'm aware of does it say I shouldn't be using these Lightning-based Skills in my Lightning-based spec. If anything, the DoTs make less sense since there is the spec that seems to focus on those kinds of abilities more. I guess that's another thing. If I'm not supposed to be using these abilities, why do I have them in the first place? They figured out how to replace abilities finally, so why not do it with these as well. Catsworth fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 21:07
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That's something which you would have to read through the tooltips and discipline trees carefully and see things like "reduces the Force cost of your next two non-channeled Force attacks by 75%" or that Lightning Strike (later upgraded to Bolt) has a much better damage/force ratio than Shock and both take the same time to execute, or that casting Lightning Bolt increases your Force regeneration by 30% so it's the better filler, etc. I think one could justifiably ask why sorcerers even have both Force Lightning and Lightning Strike/Bolt since they are effectively exclusive for both DPS disciplines, so healers of all people are the only ones to have reason to have both on a hotbar.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:22
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hey i dunno how to break this to you but if people arent coming to play this game despite it being Star Wars then they sure as hell aren't going to either because you want to just press A a bunch between cut scenes.
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Nov 8, 2016 22:12
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Proud Christian Mom posted:hey i dunno how to break this to you but if people arent coming to play this game despite it being Star Wars then they sure as hell aren't going to either because you want to just press A a bunch between cut scenes. What?
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Nov 8, 2016 22:42
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