The Philippines: Forget everything you thought you knew about human rights

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Rookersh: Aug 19, 2010

The problem of switching guns is three fold, fyi.

First off, no there aren't cheaper guns. The US sells guns at extremely good prices to our friends, and we sell well undermarket. Yes AK's are "cheaper", but ironically they sell for higher since you don't get the friend discount.

Secondly is training. All guns are different. All guns work differently. The key to a successful training/military/defense force is having them know how to operate what they've been given. If Filipinos have been trained on using M16s ( they have ), it'd cost quite a bit to retrain everyone on the new guns. As in probably multiple times more then the cost of actually buying the guns in the first place.

Thirdly is ammo. Hey guess what, the M16 uses the stock standard 5.56 NATO rounds. If we assume he buys from Russia/China, he'll be getting either AK's which use 7.62 ( or 5.45..... ), or various Chinese weapons which range from 5.8 to 7.62. And boy howdy I hope he doesn't assume the various 7.62 NATO rounds he has probably lying around can work in a AK that fires 7.62 rounds, because the Russian cartridges are of a slightly different size and using NATO rounds will cause damage to the guns. Once again the restocking fees will kill him, NATO rounds are generally fairly cheap for NATO allies, as NATO wants people to have the ammunition to fire their weapons. NATO has standardized the creation/sale of their ammo so it's near ubiquitous. Russia and China haven't. Good luck finding a supplier that won't gouge the Philippines for every penny it has, just to keep your drug war going!

You can't just flip a switch and suddenly have AK-47's on hand ready to go. The whole jump is complex and costly. I don't think he realizes the costly part. He's going to be paying probably double, but likely triple or quadruple what he's currently paying for weapons for significantly worse products.

And I'm making the very generous assumption here he's planning on buying guns through legitimate authorized sellers within Russia/China. So at least he's getting quality products. If he's planning on buying guns off the back of a wagon in Vietnam or something.....

# ? Nov 8, 2016 04:49

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# ? May 12, 2024 04:27

CronoGamer: May 15, 2004; why did this happen

gradenko_2000 posted:

I bring this up because today, Senator Leila de Lima filed a petition for writ of habeas data against President Duterte. The petition by itself would test Presidential immunity from suit, but invoking habeas data would seek to have the Supreme Court compel the Executive to reveal whatever information they have on the Senator, and how this information has been or is being gathered.

It should be noted that despite the President's repeated declarations that the Senator is guilty as sin, the House probe into her ties to the drug trade revealed nothing and no case has been filed against her. It's under this pretext that petition is being filed: de Lima claims that the President is abusing his immunity from suit by making repeated libelous accusations without actually going through with any sort of case, and then the habeas data is supposed to make public what the President actually knows about de Lima that makes him think he's entitled to make these accusations in the first place.

The affidavit itself was posted publicly on Google Drive, if anyone wants to take a look.

Just to provide a little more context for people (I'm not sure if it was contained in any of your links there, sorry if it was), one of the things Duterte said about his "knowledge" of De Lima and her allegedly sordid past is that a "friendly foreign power" tapped her phone and gave him recordings. Police Chief Dela Rosa said the Philippine National Police didn't have the capability of tapping a mobile phone like that, but Senator Lacson-- a former PNP chief himself-- said that Dela Rosa was probably wrong. In any event-- whether it came from PNP capabilities or from China or "some other" power-- if the writ forced that revelation it would be a big deal (if it came from another country I'm almost positive they would refuse to reveal it for national security reasons, but it would be interesting to see if Duterte was telling the truth about that).

# ? Nov 8, 2016 06:22

Squalid: Nov 4, 2008

ihatepants posted:

Was it Heneral Luna?

Yeah that's the one. Pretty okay movie

# ? Nov 8, 2016 06:32

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

The Supreme Court has voted 9 to 5 to allow for the burial of former dictator Ferdinand Marcos Sr., at the Cemetery for National Heroes

quote:

Associate Justices Arturo Brion, Presbitero Velasco Jr, Diosdado Peralta, Lucas Bersamin, Mariano del Castillo, Jose Perez, Teresita de Castro, Jose Mendoza, and Estela Perlas-Bernabe voted in favor of giving Marcos a hero's burial.

Chief Justice Maria Lourdes Sereno, together with Senior Associate Justice Antonio Carpio, and Associate Justices Marvic Leonen, Francis Jardeleza, and Alfredo Benjamin Caguioa dissented.

In favor:

Arturo Brion - appointed by Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo
Presbitero Velasco Jr - appointed by Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo
Diosdado Peralta - appointed by Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo
Lucas Bersamin - appointed by Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo
Mariano del Castillo - appointed by Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo
Jose Perez - appointed by Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo
Teresita de Castro - appointed by Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo
Jose Mendoza - appointed by Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo
Estela Perlas-Bernabe - appointed by Benigno Aquino

Dissented:

Maria Lourdes Sereno - appointed by Benigno Aquino
Marvic Leonen - appointed by Benigno Aquino
Frances Jardeleza - appointed by Benigno Aquino
Alfredo Benjamin Caguioa - appointed by Benigno Aquino
Antonio Carpio - appointed by Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo

# ? Nov 8, 2016 06:41

ianmacdo: Oct 30, 2012

Rookersh posted:

You can't just flip a switch and suddenly have AK-47's on hand ready to go. The whole jump is complex and costly. I don't think he realizes the costly part. He's going to be paying probably double, but likely triple or quadruple what he's currently paying for weapons for significantly worse products.

Just another chance for more graft. He can get another loan from china for 4 times the USA price to buy the guns from China.

# ? Nov 8, 2016 07:43

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

I could hook you up with some quality surplus AKs from Bulgaria at a pretty good rate. PM me.

# ? Nov 8, 2016 09:24

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

Things the Philippines has done to disgraced leaders:

Heroes' burial for a dictator who murdered thousands
Elected as mayor an embezzling ousted president
Elected into the senate an ex-president who was arrested and was undergoing legal proceedings for plunder
Elected into the senate a jailed soldier who tried to lead a mutiny, then re-elected him again after he tried to hold a second mutiny

# ? Nov 8, 2016 09:49

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

poo poo's going to go down this month, I can feel it.

# ? Nov 8, 2016 09:54

Rated PG-34: Jul 1, 2004

As much as I dislike Duterte, I would be against any unilateral American intervention that removes him from power.

# ? Nov 8, 2016 11:54

anakha: Sep 16, 2009

Argue posted:

Things the Philippines has done to disgraced leaders:

Heroes' burial for a dictator who murdered thousands

Elected as mayor an embezzling ousted president

Elected into the senate an ex-president who was arrested and was undergoing legal proceedings for plunder

Elected into the senate a jailed soldier who tried to lead a mutiny, then re-elected him again after he tried to hold a second mutiny

Arroyo was elected to Congress, not the Senate. Still, that's pretty embarrassing.

# ? Nov 8, 2016 11:56

RandomPauI: Nov 24, 2006; Grimey Drawer

Rated PG-34 posted:

As much as I dislike Duterte, I would be against any unilateral American intervention that removes him from power.

The same. Unless it were done in the style of a certain genre of 80's comedy. Sure, Duterte can dish the insults. But can he pop-and-lock or spit the rhymes?

# ? Nov 8, 2016 12:14

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Rated PG-34 posted:

As much as I dislike Duterte, I would be against any unilateral American intervention that removes him from power.

I would qualify my agreement as there being a red line where it would become acceptable, but we're not yet anywhere near that line, and I pray to God that we won't ever come close.

# ? Nov 8, 2016 12:14

RandomPauI: Nov 24, 2006; Grimey Drawer

Does your red line involve the US challenging him to a Japanese-style game show? I could back that too.

# ? Nov 8, 2016 12:16

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

Rated PG-34 posted:

As much as I dislike Duterte, I would be against any unilateral American intervention that removes him from power.

I don't think the US is planning anything like that.

# ? Nov 8, 2016 13:09

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

Yeah, it's unlikely, but multiple people in this thread seem to be unhealthily in favor of some sort of assassination/war on Duterte.

anakha posted:

Arroyo was elected to Congress, not the Senate. Still, that's pretty embarrassing.

My bad; I knew she was a congressman but I thought Senate was the catchall term for the whole legislative branch.

# ? Nov 8, 2016 13:16

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

It looks like our fears that Robredo might somehow be deposed are baseless. If they got rid of her, Duterte wouldn't have any hot legs to ogle

quote:

MANILA � In an act that may spark condemnation from women�s groups, President Duterte let loose his philandering self as he openly flirted with Vice President Leni Robredo in front of hundreds of survivors of Supertyphoon �Yolanda� in Tacloban City on Tuesday.

Speaking at the event marking the tragedy�s third year, Mr. Duterte told his audience how he and Finance Secretary Carlos Dominguez once ogled at Robredo�s knees during a Cabinet meeting.

He said Robredo, who visibly looked uneasy while the President was talking about her, would come to their meeting in Malaca�ang wearing short skirts.

�Please don�t be offended (with what I have said) because I�m not mad. You would know I�m mad when I start looking at beautiful women,� Mr. Duterte said in Filipino as he stared at the Vice President, eliciting giggles from the crowd.

He said he used to seat beside Robredo during their Cabinet meeting, but the protocol officer in Malaca�ang apparently noticed that he would just stay behind her.

�You know ma�am Leni would always wear skirts which are shorter than usual. At one time, Dominguez asked me come closer because I was far from them. But I told him, �Come here. Look at (Robredo�s) knees,�� he said as the crowd rolled in laughter.

�Maybe she noticed (that I was looking at her). I wanted to tell her, �Ma�am maybe next time you just wear shorts� But after our third meeting, she was already there at the far end of the table. I lost the view during the Cabinet meeting,� he continued.

Before concluding his speech, Mr. Duterte sang a line from Anthony Castelo�s song �Malayo Ang Tingin.�

The President also asked Robredo, the widow of the late Interior Secretary Jesse Robredo, in jest if rumors were true that she had found a boyfriend. �Don�t be offended. Is it true? If it�s true, a congressman may be killed.�

Mr. Duterte said he would often tease Robredo to lighten the mood when their meetings become dull and filled with tension.

The President had previously earned the ire of women�s groups for kissing young women during the campaign.

He also drew flak when he joked about the gang rape of Australian missionary worker Jaqueline Hamill when he was still the mayor of Davao City in 1989.

# ? Nov 8, 2016 14:11

Schubalts: Nov 26, 2007; People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.

He really is a Filipino Trump, what the gently caress.

# ? Nov 8, 2016 15:09

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Rookersh posted:

The problem of switching guns is three fold, fyi.

First off, no there aren't cheaper guns. The US sells guns at extremely good prices to our friends, and we sell well undermarket. Yes AK's are "cheaper", but ironically they sell for higher since you don't get the friend discount.

Secondly is training. All guns are different. All guns work differently. The key to a successful training/military/defense force is having them know how to operate what they've been given. If Filipinos have been trained on using M16s ( they have ), it'd cost quite a bit to retrain everyone on the new guns. As in probably multiple times more then the cost of actually buying the guns in the first place.

Thirdly is ammo. Hey guess what, the M16 uses the stock standard 5.56 NATO rounds. If we assume he buys from Russia/China, he'll be getting either AK's which use 7.62 ( or 5.45..... ), or various Chinese weapons which range from 5.8 to 7.62. And boy howdy I hope he doesn't assume the various 7.62 NATO rounds he has probably lying around can work in a AK that fires 7.62 rounds, because the Russian cartridges are of a slightly different size and using NATO rounds will cause damage to the guns. Once again the restocking fees will kill him, NATO rounds are generally fairly cheap for NATO allies, as NATO wants people to have the ammunition to fire their weapons. NATO has standardized the creation/sale of their ammo so it's near ubiquitous. Russia and China haven't. Good luck finding a supplier that won't gouge the Philippines for every penny it has, just to keep your drug war going!

You can't just flip a switch and suddenly have AK-47's on hand ready to go. The whole jump is complex and costly. I don't think he realizes the costly part. He's going to be paying probably double, but likely triple or quadruple what he's currently paying for weapons for significantly worse products.

And I'm making the very generous assumption here he's planning on buying guns through legitimate authorized sellers within Russia/China. So at least he's getting quality products. If he's planning on buying guns off the back of a wagon in Vietnam or something.....

It's amusing that you think buying rifles works like it does in a video game or something. Huge numbers of M16 pattern rifles are made in China, there are Filipino companies that make knock off versions of Chinese M16s. Rifles aren't jet engines, the technology content of a M16 rifle is about the same as that of a $5 non-stick frying pan.

# ? Nov 8, 2016 15:21

ihatepants: Nov 5, 2011; Let the burning of pants commence. These things drive me nuts.

Argue posted:

Things the Philippines has done to disgraced leaders:

Heroes' burial for a dictator who murdered thousands

Elected as mayor an embezzling ousted president

Elected into the senate an ex-president who was arrested and was undergoing legal proceedings for plunder

Elected into the senate a jailed soldier who tried to lead a mutiny, then re-elected him again after he tried to hold a second mutiny

In six years, you can add "Elected as president the son of dictator who murdered thousands." Or does he not count because he isn't technically disgraced (yet).

# ? Nov 8, 2016 15:46

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

Welp. Condolences, Americans, and welcome to the club. I dunno, still a better option than Duterte probably.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 07:15

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

Humanity really getting that hat trick for this year in, huh?

# ? Nov 9, 2016 07:18

RandomPauI: Nov 24, 2006; Grimey Drawer

It looks like America's Deturte will win the election.

:sigh:

# ? Nov 9, 2016 07:30

chami: Mar 28, 2011; Keep it classy, boys~; Fun Shoe

gently caress, gently caress, gently caress, putanginang punyetang mga tanga!

Yeah, me and my (also Filipina) wife just got married in the US and we're pretty scared. Hopefully this won't embolden all those racists?

# ? Nov 9, 2016 07:34

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

Hopefully now that Trump's been pushed to production we can decommission the beta Trump that we've been running for the last six months

# ? Nov 9, 2016 07:37

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

When Marcos was in power, Reagan was President.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 09:02

chird: Sep 26, 2004

Thatcher's back in the UK too.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 12:44

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

RandomPauI posted:

It looks like America's Deturte will win the election.

Not gonna lie, looking forward to the first meeting between the two.

Apologies in advance to the Philippines if it leads to us bombing you.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 13:00

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Not gonna lie, looking forward to the first meeting between the two.

Apologies in advance to the Philippines if it leads to us bombing you.

try and catch quezon city in the blast radius if you can, so i can move on to the next world

# ? Nov 9, 2016 13:15

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

toasterwarrior posted:

try and catch quezon city in the blast radius if you can, so i can move on to the next world

Not emptyquoting. gently caress this gay earth.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 13:37

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

I'm Junkrat irl so I can use the blast to propel myself to Switzerland or something

# ? Nov 9, 2016 13:44

chami: Mar 28, 2011; Keep it classy, boys~; Fun Shoe

My parents just told me that they're ok with me not going through with the green card application with an orange rapist presidency. At least that's $800 we don't have to spend. :negative:

# ? Nov 9, 2016 14:25

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/588211/news/nation/duterte-on-trump-medyo-pare-pareho-kami

quote:

President Rodrigo Duterte on Wednesday addressed Donald Trump's victory in the United States presidential elections publicly for the first time in a speech before the Filipino community in Malaysia.
"[Like I said, I don't want to fight since they already have] Trump. But, I would like to congratulate President Trump. Mabuhay ka!" said Duterte, who had previously drawn comparisons to Trump for their off-the-cuff remarks, some of which have resulted in controversy.
Duterte seemed to acknowledge this in his speech.
"[We both swear. For the smallest reasons, we swear. We're kind of the same]," Duterte said.
In an earlier statement released by his communications team, Duterte expressed hope for better relations with the US under Trump. Duterte has had a contentious relationship with the US under President Barack Obama, bristling over the criticism of the superpower toward his administration's drug war.
Duterte once again hit out at the US criticism during his speech.
"Ah [now they notice me]," he said.
"[Why? Because I'm the president who said "son of a bitch" at them. Just like that]."

So folks, what are your new plans for getting out of here? I'm afraid America is still my best bet at the moment, but at least if this pushes through it'll be in the fairly blue bubble of California.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 14:42

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I kept telling my fiancee we were going to try to move to America next year once things had settled down after the wedding.

I was driving her to work this afternoon as the states were being called and we started crying together after it started sinking in.

I don't know anymore.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 14:48

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

I kept telling my fiancee we were going to try to move to America next year once things had settled down after the wedding.

I was driving her to work this afternoon as the states were being called and we started crying together after it started sinking in.

I don't know anymore.

Try Canada

# ? Nov 9, 2016 16:28

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Xelkelvos posted:

Try Canada

We're terrified Trump will bomb our economy with his protectionist policies. (So is Mexico; the peso went down 13% last night, though I believe it's back 'up' to only a 9% decrease.)

Also, the Immigration Canada website crashed repeatedly last night from too much traffic so it might take a while.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 18:05

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Last thought for the night: I didn't experience or see nearly as much recrimination over Roxas's, or even Poe's loss to Duterte, as I see now over "the failure of the Democrats"

# ? Nov 9, 2016 18:49

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

gradenko_2000 posted:

Last thought for the night: I didn't experience or see nearly as much recrimination over Roxas's, or even Poe's loss to Duterte, as I see now over "the failure of the Democrats"

I suppose it's because Trump was predicted to be a sure failure, while Duterte had a clear lead in the polls leading up to the main event.

# ? Nov 9, 2016 19:30

webmeister: Jan 31, 2007; The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.

Xelkelvos posted:

Try Canada

If you've got some qualifications, Australia is currently accepting skilled migrants in the following job areas:
https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work/Work/Skills-assessment-and-assessing-authorities/skilled-occupations-lists/SOL

That said, I know our government's immigration policies are a loving quagmire.

On the plus side, there's a decent-sized Filipino community here!

# ? Nov 10, 2016 13:31

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Right. This last week has been incredibly stressful. Did I tell you our Supreme Court gave the green light to have Ferdinand Marcos buried in the National Heroes's Cemetery the day before the US elections?

Besides Trump, the big thing is still that Marcos decision, which has drawn protests and will probably draw an appeal (I'm not sure of the remaining legal avenues)

Other important news:

The Senate opened an investigation into the death of Mayor and suspected drug lord Rolando Espinosa. They unanimously concluded that the killing had to be premeditated, given the circumstances of the death and the inconsistencies in the story relayed by the police.

This article [NWS/NMS pictures of a cadaver] covers how the crime scene photos are inconsistent and imply that Espinosa's body was moved and a gun planted to maintain the illusion of a shoot-out.

This article [NWS/NMS pictures of a cadaver] covers how Scene of the Crime Operatives (think Filipino CSI) were called in even before the police supposedly entered Espinosa's cell.

For his part, President Duterte commented that he does not believe that Espinosa's case is an extra-judicial killing, and that he believes the police's version of events (that Espinosa had a gun, and was killed in a shoot-out)

quote:

�I believe in the version of the police. If they have a version that proves otherwise, then a case should be filed against the police,� said Duterte, reiterating his vow early during the campaign to protect the police implementing his war against illegal drugs.

�The police have nothing to be afraid of. They�ve got my protection. I will support them,� he said, adding if somebody should go to prison for taking up his fight against drugs, it must be him.

�I�m the one who issues orders so I assume full, legal responsibility,� the President said.

The Ombudsman also launched an investigation into the all-expenses paid trip provided by Senator Manny Pacquiao to Police Chief Ronald de la Rosa so that de la Rosa could watch the Pacquiao-Vargas match in Las Vegas.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 10:11

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# ? May 12, 2024 04:27

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

Someone posted a thing re: Duterte's decision to not re--open the Bataan Nuclear Plant a few pages ago. Well, I got some news for you: http://business.inquirer.net/218869/energy-chief-gets-dutertes-green-light-for-1-b-nuke-plant-rehab

# ? Nov 11, 2016 10:20

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Philippines: Forget everything you thought you knew about human rights

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