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Speaking as a white dude who has trouble pronouncing names correctly, what's the appropriate way to handle the situation? Generally in these situations I'll acknowledge that I'm probably going to gently caress up the pronunciation at first and apologize in advance for doing so.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:17
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negromancer posted:Now this is something I'm posting from pure ignorance, but it is something I've noticed. Well, I actually teach Chinese Immigrants almost exclusively, so let me offer my perspective. A. The first issue is that authentic Chinese is incredibly difficult for native English speakers to speak effectively. There are elements and signifiers to their pronunciation we don't have at all in English. Even if you listen to them say their name several times, it can still be very hard to mimic it because our ears actually aren't attuned to the subtleties of their pronunciation. Most Chinese students do it simply because its easier for communication on a practical level. B. Its also become, for many young people, a form of personal expression. Some students have changed their English name several times. One guy changed it to a different rapper ever session. I think they see it more as an opportunity to reinvent themselves than seeing it as a sign of disrespect to their culture.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:17
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Baronjutter posted:To be fair to some sheltered people, some names are a bit unintuitive to pronounce and if you've grown up only exposed to a certain stock of names, new ones can throw you for a loop. I had a friend named Sean and a friend named Liam in school and teachers would constantly get them wrong. "See-an?" "Lie-am?". God drat my friend "Bonnar" had it a bit rough too. And unless you know the name, Siobhan is never going to be said correctly. "Show-bahn". God drat, it's like Sinead O'connor never existed. But Sean Bean's name should absolutely rhyme and gently caress his parents for doing that to us.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:16
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If I may add a different minority experience with names, I'm Chinese and my last name is rare enough that it doesn't have an accepted Americanization like Zhang or Wang. I haven't actually settled on one myself. People don't get it right because they literally can't, like their brain can't process the sound correctly. That's why people go with English names in the end, it's a pain correcting people over and over again when you know they aren't even capable of getting it right. Your Chinese name is used with your Chinese friends and family. Exception to this among East Asians is Japanese people because their names are much easier to pronounce for English-speaking people.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:17
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Voyager I posted:Speaking as a white dude who has trouble pronouncing names correctly, what's the appropriate way to handle the situation? Generally in these situations I'll acknowledge that I'm probably going to gently caress up the pronunciation at first and apologize in advance for doing so. Just ask. Just say "Hey, how do you pronounce your name?". It's their name, they can tell you. They will appreciate you making the effort. Telling someone you're going to gently caress up their name without asking how to say it just comes off as them not being important enough for you to pause your talking for 5 seconds to ask them.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:18
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negromancer posted:But if you show them some Polish name with 6 z's and no vowels, somehow they pronounce it perfectly. I actually am a substitute teacher and those are the exact names that gently caress me up (French does too at first glance and both are the reason I make sure that calling roll isn't the first time I looked at it) really is infuriating when other white people play dumb on names
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Nov 8, 2016 21:20
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Just ask. Just say "Hey, how do you pronounce your name?". It's their name, they can tell you. They will appreciate you making the effort. Telling someone you're going to gently caress up their name without asking how to say it just comes off as them not being important enough for you to pause your talking for 5 seconds to ask them. Agreed. I just kinda let you try a few times until you get it close enough 
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Nov 8, 2016 21:20
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Well, I actually teach Chinese Immigrants almost exclusively, so let me offer my perspective. See, you can't come into Negrotown and drop something like the bolded and NOT give examples, famalam. Tarezax posted:If I may add a different minority experience with names, I'm Chinese and my last name is rare enough that it doesn't have an accepted Americanization like Zhang or Wang. I haven't actually settled on one myself. People don't get it right because they literally can't, like their brain can't process the sound correctly. Thanks! I didn't want to assume a reason, it was just something I've noticed among specific Asian groups, and I haven't gotten around to formally learning Cantonese yet.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:19
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Tarezax posted:People don't get it right because they literally can't, like their brain can't process the sound correctly. Yeah, this has always been the reality for most of my colleagues. Chinese also has a lot of sounds that just cannot be transliterated into English. Runqi is a good example. The "qi" there is not at all pronounced like you would expect "qi" to be pronounced but there literally isn't a way to express that sound using English letters.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:20
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Tarezax posted:Exception to this among East Asians is Japanese people because their names are much easier to pronounce for English-speaking people. I don't think this is exclusively true. One of my coworker's actual names is Shunsuke but he goes by "Peter" professionally. He's older though, so maybe there's a generational difference with that?
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Nov 8, 2016 21:20
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Just ask. Just say "Hey, how do you pronounce your name?". It's their name, they can tell you. They will appreciate you making the effort. Telling someone you're going to gently caress up their name without asking how to say it just comes off as them not being important enough for you to pause your talking for 5 seconds to ask them. I found that if you admit that "hey, I'm def gonna gently caress your name up" after asking how to pronounce it, and following that up with "and when I do, please correct me, as I don't want to disrespect you and call you something you aint" Never ever had a problem.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:21
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negromancer posted:See, you can't come into Negrotown and drop something like the bolded and NOT give examples, famalam. Let's see... first he was Rain (who I guess is a Korean rapper?) Then Jay Then Nelly and then I think he graduated.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:22
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Just ask. Just say "Hey, how do you pronounce your name?". It's their name, they can tell you. They will appreciate you making the effort. Telling someone you're going to gently caress up their name without asking how to say it just comes off as them not being important enough for you to pause your talking for 5 seconds to ask them. Oh, yeah, that's always the first step. What I'm saying is that I'm got the White Substitute problem that TBS mentioned on the previous page and even after they say it for me I'm probably not going to be able to pronounce it correctly. Is this a case where it's more about making the good faith effort than actually being successful? EDIT: it looks like the issue was more with people telling black people that their names were somehow 'wrong', which is definitely not something I'm doing.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:22
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Let's see... first he was Rain (who I guess is a Korean rapper?) So he goes by Kanye now?
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Nov 8, 2016 21:22
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Voyager I posted:Oh, yeah, that's always the first step. What I'm saying is that I'm got the White Substitute problem that TBS mentioned on the previous page and even after they say it for me I'm probably not going to be able to pronounce it correctly. Yeah, pretty much. If you don't seem like you're being a dick about it people probably aren't going to get mad at you.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:23
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negromancer posted:Except...literally black women matchmakers talk about how its a persistent issue in their black women clients, I literally posted a video of just that. Black women matchmakers are no authority on anything but self-aggrandizement.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:23
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I knew a guy in high school everyone called Day Day. His real name was Calvin?
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Nov 8, 2016 21:23
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woke wedding drone posted:Black women matchmakers are no authority on anything but self-aggrandizement. Matchmakers in general seem to be lovely people who operate on stereotypes.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:24
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:"Show-bahn". God drat, it's like Sinead O'connor never existed. But Sean Bean's name should absolutely rhyme and gently caress his parents for doing that to us. It's actually kind of more like Shuh-Vahn because Irish is weird. And to actually contribute, I've definitely hosed people's names up before, especially last names. They'll usually correct me and I'll try to use the correct pronunciation. I really don't get how that's hard for us white people to do.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:25
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negromancer posted:Now this is something I'm posting from pure ignorance, but it is something I've noticed. A lot of chinese people think that it's 100% genetically impossible for non-chinese to speak chinese or understand chinese culture, so they need to adopt a western name for interfacing with non-chinese people because it would be impossible to expect anyone who isn't chinese to say their name. It's just become a traditional thing now as all the english language and international student programs tell them they simply have to adopt a western name as part of the program, and for doing business with western people in future. I thought it was weird as well. I had a friend from Taiwan named Ming. Not a hard name to say. But he had a western name of Mitchell. We'd tell him to just use his real name, be proud of who he is and such, but in the end he just had to tell us he was really uncomfortable using his chinese name as that simply wasn't what the other chinese students did, all chinese students learning english and talking to foreigners always use a western name, to do otherwise was stressful and uncomfortable. We realized we were putting our culture surrounding names on him when he viewed names very differently. For us your name is your name, it's a deeply personal thing and someone refusing to use it or refusing to even try to pronounce it is insulting. For him and many of the chinese students, they did not see names the same way and felt very uncomfortable using their chinese name when interacting with non-chinese people.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:24
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Yeah, this has always been the reality for most of my colleagues. Chinese also has a lot of sounds that just cannot be transliterated into English. Runqi is a good example. The "qi" there is not at all pronounced like you would expect "qi" to be pronounced but there literally isn't a way to express that sound using English letters. Interesting story: When I grew up they used to put kung-fu movies on at like 11pm Saturday to 2am Sunday every weekend, but our tv was so hosed up that you couldn't see the subtitles, so when I finally went to Beijing I was like 
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Nov 8, 2016 21:25
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:I don't think this is exclusively true. One of my coworker's actual names is Shunsuke but he goes by "Peter" professionally. He's older though, so maybe there's a generational difference with that? I've seen some of my East and Southeast Asian immigrant peers keep their original given names. They tend to be ones that are easier to pronounce, I suppose. On the other hand my dad never took an English name and his name is fairly difficult to get right, so in the end it's a personal choice. Side note, Asian people born in the US like myself will pretty much always have an English given name, legally speaking. I've got a Chinese name but I only use it with Chinese people and when signing things, because Chinese looks cooler than English. Tarezax fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 21:26
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Let's see... first he was Rain (who I guess is a Korean rapper?) It's RAIN, shitlord. Put some respekt on his name! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhEkT3JObTA
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Nov 8, 2016 21:27
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I would just like to say that following Jesse Williams twitter is a pro-tip. He had a fantastic critique of Django Unchained, speaks out about racial issues, and is one of my favorite celebrities to read. http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-..._pos=2&at_tot=4
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Nov 8, 2016 21:29
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Matchmakers in general seem to be lovely people who operate on stereotypes. The one black woman matchmaker is still an undecided voter, but was leaning towards Jill Stein. So...you're probably right. Also the same woman who told me I couldn't get a quality (read:black woman at my income level) woman dressed the way I do on my instagram (as in jeans, gym shoes, Iron Man t-shirt). blackguy32 posted:I would just like to say that following Jesse Williams twitter is a pro-tip. He had a fantastic critique of Django Unchained, speaks out about racial issues, and is one of my favorite celebrities to read. You post this but don't post the BET speech? You're trash bro.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:30
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negromancer posted:Also the same woman who told me I couldn't get a quality (read:black woman at my income level) woman dressed the way I do on my instagram (as in jeans, gym shoes, Iron Man t-shirt). Well she's right Everyone knows the ladies love Hawkeye
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Nov 8, 2016 21:31
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Well she's right Jokes on you, I have 2 Hawkeye shirts that I wear when I go hunting.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:31
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negromancer posted:Yep, when its usually the simplest answer, like "you moved to an all white town, did you expect black women to fall from the sky?" Speaking from personal example, I used to over-theorize a lot when I was young - there's even history of it in this forum under my old name. I don't just date "in my race" because I don't really care about race, so my experiences my vary from others but a basic history is: - Nerdy guy in all black inner city schools, nobody liked me until high school when being quirky and artistic was kind of cool. Was kind of screwed up due to having no practice at all until then, so oh well. - College guy living with parents with only a little money but started to get some attention from the black women who weren't interested in school as that goes. - Moved to the suburbs in mostly white areas in my 20s. Made base middle class income with tech job woes in the early 2000s. This was my first time really experiencing a racial imbalance in attraction since I was in Detroit until then. Got annoyed, tried to figure out that poo poo and did the "I want the superficial quality of my peers" thing. Basically went on a ten year short term dating and sex binge, theorycrafting, trying to hard to improve myself in every single aspect ever, so on and so forth. - This is when I ran into the "a decent amount of educated black women give me attention, but the same ratio does not with any other race." Got super mad about it and tried to get even better at everything/tried to make more money because I hated the idea that I was being judged on a scale in which I was handicapped, and tried to break the handicap. - Got to 30s, basically worked myself into being low end rich. Realized that no matter how much more I "got," I would still be annoyed because it wouldn't be the same as my immediate peers in the same bracket, and I would always try to get more. - Mostly leveled out in my mid-late 30s, stopped dating and hooking up for the most part, period, just do my own thing and try to advise younger guys around me that are going down my same path to level out and just focus on themselves because they'll never be able to "win" in that system, and they'll just drive themselves crazy. When it comes to dating, we are always kind of at a handicap among women that are not black. Black women are the only ones that see us as-is, as a whole, as well as vice versa. But as we get older, due to income/education disparity, the professional options for both sexes within our own race drop dramatically. Our blackness is typically always an issue with any other race, whether they just subconsciously aren't attracted to our race, have physical attraction but over-worry about the social issues with actually dating us, or have a special attraction and fetish for us, which is kind of annoying as well. There are some that see us as just a normal guy and don't really see our race in that manner, but it's so few and far between, relatively, that it makes it a huge hassle to even -look- to date, so I don't even bother any more. No reason to focus on it, so why bother. Every blue moon, though, the frustration comes back, normally after too much drinking.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:33
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negromancer posted:when I go hunting OK I was kind of messing with you about the PUA thing but I'm not anymore.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:34
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negromancer posted:Jokes on you, I have 2 Hawkeye shirts that I wear when I go hunting. Have you been following the Coates Black Panther run? I got the first three issues when they released but decided it would be best to just wait for an omnibus than read it piece by piece every month.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:35
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Darko posted:Speaking from personal example, I used to over-theorize a lot when I was young - there's even history of it in this forum under my old name. YES. I keep having to tell younger black men coming up in corporate America this. You're literally being evaluated differently, and that is a GOOD THING. You don't want to be only deemed suitable by your income and status with white power structures, because if that goes... woke wedding drone posted:OK I was kind of messing with you about the PUA thing but I'm not anymore. AINT NOTHING WRONG WITH A BLACK MAN THAT GOES HUNTING SIR. Me and my Nigerian homegirl go deer hunting with bows every year. It's LIT. Mel Mudkiper posted:Have you been following the Coates Black Panther run? I got the first three issues when they released but decided it would be best to just wait for an omnibus than read it piece by piece every month. Same, I'm waiting for the whole run. I just finished the International Iron Man run and gonna follow that right now.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:39
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How should one dress if they want to attract a quality black woman?
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Nov 8, 2016 21:40
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Doctor Butts posted:How should one dress if they want to attract a quality black woman? Apaprently this is fine https://www.instagram.com/p/_cPXC3ME1E/ This however is unacceptable https://www.instagram.com/p/BGHjWipMEyJ/ Guess which one I wear 95% of the time?
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Nov 8, 2016 21:42
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negromancer posted:Same, I'm waiting for the whole run. I just finished the International Iron Man run and gonna follow that right now. I'd be curious to hear your opinion on the run. I liked it a lot but obviously different perspectives.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:43
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ImpAtom posted:I'd be curious to hear your opinion on the run. I liked it a lot but obviously different perspectives. Which one IIM or BP?
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Nov 8, 2016 21:44
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Tarezax posted:I've seen some of my East and Southeast Asian immigrant peers keep their original given names. They tend to be ones that are easier to pronounce, I suppose. On the other hand my dad never took an English name and his name is fairly difficult to get right, so in the end it's a personal choice. I had a friend suspended from middle school once because he signed the study hall checkin with the kanji representation of his name and the teacher thought he was being disrespectful. That was actually probably the first time I realized that there was racism against people other than black people. See also the statistics about rejection of resumes with names that don't "seem white". Wow is our society hung up on names.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:45
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negromancer posted:Which one IIM or BP? The BP run. I haven't read IIM yet since I'm basically infinitely behind on Iron man in general and barely have the cash to keep up with the books I'm reading as-is.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:45
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Doctor Butts posted:How should one dress if they want to attract a quality black woman? negromancer posted:Apaprently this is fine Ehhhhh.... I would just say dress in a way in which you are comfortable that matches the general attitude of the kind of person you want. That's kind of overthinking things; there are no rules. I do wear a lot of sports coats or suits in new situations, just to throw anyone around me off, not just about dating. That way I immediately establish myself as "not a ghetto black person but a professional one" and get better service, reaction, etc. wherever I go.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:45
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Well, I actually teach Chinese Immigrants almost exclusively, so let me offer my perspective.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:49
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negromancer posted:AINT NOTHING WRONG WITH A BLACK MAN THAT GOES HUNTING SIR. Oh, hunting hunting LOL. Never mind
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Nov 8, 2016 21:49
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